Fred Phelps to put anti-gay monument @ public park

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Phelps seeks anti-gay marker

 

By BRENDAN BURKE Star-Tribune staff writer

 

Rev. Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., announced plans Thursday to erect a monument in Casper's City Park.

 

The monument would be made of marble or granite, stand 5 to 6 feet in height, with a heavy bronze plaque bearing the face of slain University of Wyoming student Matthew Shepard and an inscription reading "MATTHEW SHEPARD, Entered Hell October 12, 1998, in Defiance of God's Warning: 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination.' Leviticus 18:22," a letter from the Westboro Baptist Church signed by Phelps sent to the city of Casper states.

 

The church plans to place the monument in City Park because the park is already home to a Ten Commandments monument donated to the city by the Fraternal Order of the Eagles in 1965.

 

On Monday, the Casper City Council discussed moving the Ten Commandments from the park because the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation has threatened legal action if the city does not do so.

 

After a fiery debate, in which some council members mentioned the possibility of Phelps trying to erect a monument, the council decided to look into selling the land on which the Decalogue sits to a private party so that it can stay where it is.

 

According to the ruling made by the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in the case Summum v. City of Ogden, any city that displays a Ten Commandments monument on public property must also allow monuments espousing the views of other religions or political groups on that same property.

 

Phelps plans on taking advantage of this ruling to put his monument next to the Ten Commandments, he said. The monument would be a first for the Westboro Baptist Church, Phelps said.

 

"That is exactly what I said would happen," said Councilwoman Barb Watters. "I'm like Carnac, I can see the future."

 

"When Phelps puts on one side his picture with the thing about killing all the gays, and they put on the other side of the thing a picture of Hitler that says 'Kill all the Jews.' That is what you are opening yourself up for," she added.

 

"It does not have anything to do with the message on the monument that is up there now," Watters said. "My thing is that it is not the Ten Commandments that hang over the Arc in the Temple. It is not my version of the Ten Commandments, but I can live with it being in the park. But I can't live with the idea of having to put up other people's crap because that is there. And that is what is going to happen.

 

"It is much easier to avoid all that by just moving it (the Ten Commandments monument)," Watters said. "It won't lose any of the meaning by moving it."

 

Councilwoman Renee Burgess, who supported selling the land on which the monument sits in hopes to keep the Decalogue where it is, said she too feared someone like Phelps would try to erect a monument in the park.

 

"This is exactly what I feared would happen. As soon as we opened this Pandora's box," Burgess said.

 

"I think it (the Ten Commandments monument) should be there, but I am voting to remove it if it has to be for this very reason, for the prevention of people like Phelps," she said.

 

Burgess added that she still hopes the city will be able to sell a piece of park in order to keep the monument where it is.

 

However, Councilman Paul Bertoglio said he will not be persuaded to support taking the monument out of the park by hate.

 

"It only strengthens my resolve that we are not going to accept being pushed or driven by fear of people whose message is hate," Bertoglio said.

 

"I am not going to be pushed by the fear of more hate language. I think the hate language will find a very cold reception in this community. I think this community's backbone is going to come up and say, 'We are not going to accept it,'" if Phelps erects his monument, Bertoglio said.

 

"From a pure fiscal standpoint, I don't know why anyone would want to spend that type of money on something that I don't believe would last a week before somebody in this community destroys it. And I don't think it is our responsibility to provide 24-7 security for this," he added.

 

According to City Manager Tom Forslund and Mayor Barb Peryam, Phelps will not be able to place his monument in the park until the city comes to a final decision on what to do with the Ten Commandments monument.

 

But even if the city decides to remove the Ten Commandments from the park, thereby making it impossible for the Westboro Baptist Church to put its monument up there, Phelps said he will look to place his message in stone somewhere else in the city.

 

"There may be nearby private property that we could buy," Phelps said in a phone interview Thursday. "I mean we have to see what turn this takes and how it develops."

 

Phelps said he wishes to erect his monument in Casper because it is Matthew Shepard's hometown, where he learned it is "OK to be gay."

 

"Nothing has so occupied and mysteriously seized the imagination of the world media to compare with Matt Shepard," Phelps said. "It is a phenomenon. It all comes back to Casper, Wyoming. That is his home, that is where he was born, where that church is, where those institutions ... conspired in a confluence of evil resulting in a Zeitgeist that is extraordinarily evil.

 

"He (Shepard) was not a hero," Phelps added. "This is a great monster sin against God. It is not an innocent alternate lifestyle. And all that has come down in that one little evil town called Casper, Wyoming. And we can't ignore that."

 

http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/...2e2617c79c6.txt

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

That's disgusting.

[Justice 0]

From the brothers of Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia, here's a hearty

 

FUCK YOU

 

Mr. Rogers was part of our fraternity, you twisted motherfucker. Just go to hell already.

[NoCalMike 0]

What a fucking asshole. Yah I can see that monument lasting the first day until the sun goes down.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

A boy... not even a man, yet. Who hadn't even reached the halfway mark of his life was beaten to death.

 

Beaten to death for no more then his choice of sexual partners... a choice that he made and was willing to live with.

 

This monster is advocating this barbarism. A KID WAS BEATEN LIKE AN ANIMAL, and HE'S the one going to Hell? Not the pigs who killed him?

 

Is human life so meaningless, that such a simple decision justifies the taking of it?

 

One of the things Jesus did in his lifetime was rebuke those wo did evil in the name of God... this ANIMAL would have been rebuked publicly by Jesus for his sins of hatred.

 

I am ashamed for our society.

[Guest MD2020]

Somehow, I get the feeling that if this monument were blown up in the middle of the night, Casper City police officers wouldn't exactly be ringing up a lot of overtime trying to catch the guy who did it.

[Ripper 0]

I am buying tickets to this fucker funeral when he dies just so his family and supporters can get what Fred Rodgers and his family and Matthew Sheppard got when they were laying their loved ones to rest.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

I'm just waiting for the day that somebody offs Phelps already, jeesh. With the way he carries this stuff on, it'll happen sooner or later.

 

Also imagine what the Shephard family is going through with this? Desicrating their son's memory like this...man I'd be ready to kill if it were a member of my family.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I am buying tickets to this fucker funeral when he dies just so his family and supporters can get what Fred Rodgers and his family and Matthew Sheppard got when they were laying their loved ones to rest.

(Bolded for emphasis)

 

What happened with Mr. Rodgers?

[Ripper 0]

If I am not mistaken, he was ahead of the group that planned to picket and protest during Fred Rodgers funeral for some asinine reason that I can't even remember. I don't even know if they went through with it, but just having him all over the news when talking about why they would protest taking away from the fact that a GREAT man had just passed pissed me off to no end.

 

http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/200...ny107col2p2.asp

 

This guy gives the gist of what the guy did.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Phelps and crew protested Mister Rogers' public memorial service because his Church didn't hate gays enough for Phelps' approval.

 

See this propaganda for their angle of the whole thing.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

"Mr. Rogers gave aid and comfort to homosexuals," Phelps said, his Mississippi accent dripping with insincerity. "He was a man who preached tolerance of all sorts of people in ways that directly contradicted the Bible. His syrupy teachings led millions astray. He was a wuss and he was an enabler of wusses."

 

So you're protesting a man's funeral because he taught kids that it was okay to be different?

 

No one's that stupid.

[Slayer 0]

A black eye on my homestate if ever there was one, even a majority of the Xtians right here in the state don't like the guy.

 

On a separate note, one thing that always got me about Shepard was the media coverage the case got, including the MFTV movie... if he was some dude who just got killed for, say, his wallet, rather than for hitting on the wrong guy, probably no one outside of his city would know who he was. Both scenarios are wrong, but why does his case warrant so much attention? He's certainly not the first person to lose his life because of his sexuality, and certainly hasn't been the last either.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, the Mr. Rodgers question got answered while I was writing this

[Dr. Tom 0]

So you're protesting a man's funeral because he taught kids that it was okay to be different?

 

No one's that stupid.

Phelps is.

 

I rarely waste the time to wish death on people, but I sincerely hope that Phelps dies frightened, miserable, alone, and in a lot of pain, in a pool of his own blood, vomit, and excrement. And I hope he's surrounded by gay men pointing and laughing at him all the while.

[Vyce 0]

Boy is Phelps going to be surprised when he dies, goes to hell, and gets sodomized by rather well-endowed black men for all eternity.

 

Or at least, that's my own personal fantasy.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

A black eye on my homestate if ever there was one, even a majority of the Xtians right here in the state don't like the guy.

 

On a separate note, one thing that always got me about Shepard was the media coverage the case got, including the MFTV movie... if he was some dude who just got killed for, say, his wallet, rather than for hitting on the wrong guy, probably no one outside of his city would know who he was. Both scenarios are wrong, but why does his case warrant so much attention? He's certainly not the first person to lose his life because of his sexuality, and certainly hasn't been the last either.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, the Mr. Rodgers question got answered while I was writing this

And Rosa Parks wasn't the first woman to refuse giving up her seat on a bus. Some cases catch the public's eye. But I think you're not taking into account the victim's youth in this case.

[Ripper 0]

A black eye on my homestate if ever there was one, even a majority of the Xtians right here in the state don't like the guy.

 

On a separate note, one thing that always got me about Shepard was the media coverage the case got, including the MFTV movie... if he was some dude who just got killed for, say, his wallet, rather than for hitting on the wrong guy, probably no one outside of his city would know who he was. Both scenarios are wrong, but why does his case warrant so much attention? He's certainly not the first person to lose his life because of his sexuality, and certainly hasn't been the last either.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, the Mr. Rodgers question got answered while I was writing this

Because this young man was the perfect face for what intolorance can lead to. Just as ...jesus, I can't remember his name and my mom would kick my ass right now if she knew, but the young black boy that was beaten to death for looking(or whistling) at a white woman was the line that everyone drew and he became the poster child for the racial intolorance. Whites and blacks together wept when they heard the story of how this child was beaten. With Sheppard, those that believed that homosexuality was not immoral and those that did both came together and saw how ugly the hatred can be. It WAS bigger than a young man getting killed for his wallet. This is the case that led many to start to teach their children tolorance and that it is okay to not agree with this, but to hate is wrong.

 

You want to know how much of a difference it made? This "We don't hate gays, we hate what they do." thing wasn't as wide spread amoung the christian community before this crime. It opened everyones eyes.

[Guest Insanityman]

What a fucking asshole. Man, I just hope Fred has some gays jump him or something. I don't care if it's ironic or hypocritial or whatever- another human being gets beaten to death for being gay and this guy wants to not only bring it up- but glorify his death as entering Hell? Fuck that and fuck religion, it's caused so many fucking problems all over the world. I hope the town's members just bash that monument down that very night it goes up.

[Slayer 0]

A black eye on my homestate if ever there was one, even a majority of the Xtians right here in the state don't like the guy.

 

On a separate note, one thing that always got me about Shepard was the media coverage the case got, including the MFTV movie... if he was some dude who just got killed for, say, his wallet, rather than for hitting on the wrong guy, probably no one outside of his city would know who he was.  Both scenarios are wrong, but why does his case warrant so much attention?  He's certainly not the first person to lose his life because of his sexuality, and certainly hasn't been the last either.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, the Mr. Rodgers question got answered while I was writing this

Because this young man was the perfect face for what intolorance can lead to. Just as ...jesus, I can't remember his name and my mom would kick my ass right now if she knew, but the young black boy that was beaten to death for looking(or whistling) at a white woman was the line that everyone drew and he became the poster child for the racial intolorance. Whites and blacks together wept when they heard the story of how this child was beaten. With Sheppard, those that believed that homosexuality was not immoral and those that did both came together and saw how ugly the hatred can be. It WAS bigger than a young man getting killed for his wallet. This is the case that led many to start to teach their children tolorance and that it is okay to not agree with this, but to hate is wrong.

 

You want to know how much of a difference it made? This "We don't hate gays, we hate what they do." thing wasn't as wide spread amoung the christian community before this crime. It opened everyones eyes.

While I see what you're saying, I certainly didn't see any of this "opening up" in the midwest. While not everyone around here is as bad as Phelps, homosexuality is still not well looked upon, save for on college campuses, which of course tend to be socially liberal by default. Of course, I got so tired of hearing about "Shepard this, Shepard that" (and essentially the oversaturation of "tolerance" in general) all the damn time from the media back then that I pretty well shut out anything relating to the incident afterwards.

[Highland 0]

I think this is the same asswipe that came to Ottawa a couple years ago when Parliament was debating whether gays had the same rights as everyone else. He annoyed me. Greatly.

[Ravenbomb 0]

That piece of shit Phelps

[Jingus 0]

"MATTHEW SHEPARD, Entered Hell October 12, 1998, in Defiance of God's Warning: 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination.' Leviticus 18:22

A question to our more legal-minded members here: could the Shephard family sue Phelps for defamation of character, libel, or any similar crime for claiming on a public monument that Matthew is now burning in hell for his sins?

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

I think I will do a bit of ACLU-like role-playing here and try to defend the indefensible:

 

Hmmm, I'm sure the monument would have pretty colors.

 

Sorry, I can't do it...

[Anakin Flair 0]

I'd give it 12 hours before somebody takes a sledge to it.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

"MATTHEW SHEPARD, Entered Hell October 12, 1998, in Defiance of God's Warning: 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination.' Leviticus 18:22

A question to our more legal-minded members here: could the Shephard family sue Phelps for defamation of character, libel, or any similar crime for claiming on a public monument that Matthew is now burning in hell for his sins?

No.

 

A.) He confessed to that which Phelps claims he's in Hell for, thus it's not as if Phelps is lying or defaming his character. He admitted to being gay. (Not that I agree with Phelps)

 

B.) How can anyone prove the Shepard is NOT in Hell? How can the Court determine the existence of Hell? Call in Herbert West as a witness? (Again, not that I agree, but I'm playing Devil's Advocate.)

 

C.) If they take them to Court over mental duress or some such, they'll be involved in a LONG legal battle that may not even work out. Better to play the stoics here, and gain sympathy and support.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Phelps really needs a new gay to bash (though ironically, he's keeping the memory of Matthew Shepard alive just as much as, say, "The Laramie Project"). He actually came to my school some time last year, was heavily protested, and moved on. All he does is trumpet "God Hates Fags", and all of us with sense go "OMG~!" and protest and then he leaves and we're back to square one. So he's going to trumpet it again, this time with a monument that's going to be blocked/destroyed within a short period of time. And we're all going to "OMG~!" again, and everyone's going to go on with their lives. Just kill him or ignore him already.

 

And I do think Shepard's parents can and should sue for character defamation.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

No.

Emotional damages.

[the max 0]

I would like to spit in Fred Phelps' face. Just walk up like I'm going to shake his hand, and just spit right in his eye.

[Guest Dmann2000]

Because this young man was the perfect face for what intolorance can lead to. Just as ...jesus, I can't remember his name and my mom would kick my ass right now if she knew, but the young black boy that was beaten to death for looking(or whistling) at a white woman was the line that everyone drew and he became the poster child for the racial intolorance. Whites and blacks together wept when they heard the story of how this child was beaten. With Sheppard, those that believed that homosexuality was not immoral and those that did both came together and saw how ugly the hatred can be. It WAS bigger than a young man getting killed for his wallet. This is the case that led many to start to teach their children tolorance and that it is okay to not agree with this, but to hate is wrong.

 

You want to know how much of a difference it made? This "We don't hate gays, we hate what they do." thing wasn't as wide spread amoung the christian community before this crime. It opened everyones eyes.

Emmitt Till is the name I believe you're looking for.

[Sandman9000 0]

When people ask me why I hate humanity in general, I point to Phelps and "because of people like him."

 

And I got first shot at Phelps in Hell.