John Heidenreich

[Kaertos 0]

I find this incredibly amusing. The IWC was just looking for a reason to hate this guy. I haven't seen anything on WWE or any other site saying Stevie was hurt, so I think it was just a nasty landing.

 

It is fun to see "hoss-hate" link up with the "push new guys, but not him" syndrome that is killing the credibility of the IWC.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

The IWC has credibility?

[haVoc 0]

I think Little Johnny is going to be his son. Get it? John and his son, little Johnny. I'd rather have that. More reality to a character. Wrestler needs job so he can support his kid. Fans could get behind that.

 

.....

 

Fuck it. Probably is a sock puppet.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Someone here suggested some hoss that is actually bigger than Heffinfluffer. That would be the best route IMO.

[1234-5678 0]

So, it's ok for D'Lo, Owen, Edge, Benoit and RVD to make mistakes and injure someone...because they're talented. But if someone like Mack, Orton or Heidenreich does it, damn them to hell.

Sounds good to me.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

It is fun to see "hoss-hate" link up with the "push new guys, but not him" syndrome that is killing the credibility of the IWC.

Hey, push Nathan Jones to the moon! He's new!

 

I fail to see what's so evil about "the IWC" wanting them to push talented new guys, as opposed to just any new guy just because he's new.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

It is fun to see "hoss-hate" link up with the "push new guys, but not him" syndrome that is killing the credibility of the IWC.

Hey, push Nathan Jones to the moon! He's new!

 

I fail to see what's so evil about "the IWC" wanting them to push talented new guys, as opposed to just any new guy just because he's new.

Yeah...I have no idea what this guy was babbling about. Does he assume that when we say "push new guys" we want them all pushed? Even the sucky ones? Now THAT would ruin our credibility. Just push everybody would be stupid because not everybody is ready for it.

 

I have no problem with "hoss hate" because every damn new hoss that comes in does the same moves and if they try any new moves they usually end up almost killing someone. I have a little trouble believing that I should just wait for a few more matches before judging. Are they dogging it on purpose so that I'll be shocked when they don't??

[notJames 0]

It's a matter of quality over quantity. What good is pushing every new face that walks through the curtain if they end up sucking in the ring? I need only point to last night's match between the Vanilla Express and the Dudleys. JinCade got nary a pop during their entrance, and it got even more quiet while they were showing off their vast array of clotheslines and dropkicks. You know why? Because they suck, and the fans made it abundantly clear that they didn't like them. How long do you push ineffectual losers before you pull the plug on them? Obviously a long time, since Vince hates to admit that he's wrong.

 

[Anti-hoss rant]

What irks me the most is that Vince is still stuck on the notion that you have to be big to make an impression or get the audience's attention. Since wrestling made the move from live event to TV, it's less important for Joe Sixpack sitting in the rafters to see the guys in the ring, and more important for the guys in the ring to do something noteworthy. Which wrestlers fit the former sentiment? The hosserific sloths who can't string two moves together without a chinlock. Which wrestlers fit the latter sentiment? The same ones who end up wrestling each other on the B-shows or getting squashed by the bigger guys to illustrate just how big and impressive they are, which of course translates into bigger ticket sales and hefty PPV buyrates. Right.

[/Anti-hoss rant]

 

In the case of Heidenreich, he doesn't look all that bad, but it seems like he rushes things a bit and doesn't let the match come to him. That may be a timing issue, but safety should always come before everything else in the ring. I may have to watch the match again, but it looked like he didn't have Richards up in a good enough position to drop him safely from his shoulder. He would have been better off using that wedgie uranage.

 

I'm sure Richards would agree.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

How about Grand Slam et al tell us the reasons why hosses shouldn't be hated?

 

Still haven't heard a good reason for THAT...

[Kaertos 0]

Here's all I was trying to say... for a couple of years, the IWC rallying cry was "we are sick of Austi, UT, Rock, HHH, etc., bring some new guys in and push them". So they do, and by and large, most of them are pretty talented and getting over huge (Lesnar, Cena, Orton (not sure what all the hate is for him, but...), Haas & Benjamin, Batista). But now all I ever see is how the new guys they are pushing aren't good enough.

 

Guys, I hate to tell you this, but every good to great wrestler not only has had their share of botched spots and bad matches, but chances are had to work a while when they first made it to the big time before they got comfortable performing in front of 20,000 people on a regular basis.

 

Regardless of what you would like them to be, they are, after all, only human. All of them have bad nights, and all of them make mistakes. Now far be it from me to defend John Heidenreich (sp?) as, so far at least, he hasn't exactly caused me to sit up and take notice. All I'm saying is, give the guy a chance. Just because he is new and big doesn't mean he will automatically be "teh suck". Just remember, he hasn't been in more than two matches on TV (and I'd guess less than 4 minutes of real ring work).

 

Besides, why should a big guy need a huge and varied move set? Realistically, they should be able to just pound the rest of the roster into submission on sheer strength. Now I'm not saying a little variation isn't needed now and then, but is there a real reason a big guy needs all those moves?

 

Why shouldn't hosses be hated? I've a better question: Why hate them just because they are hosses?

 

However, to answer the question I think you have to look past the workrate / smartMark sensibility and examine a little thing called Kayfabe. In kayfabe, is there any reason that a guy as big and strong as Big Show or Mark Henry shouldn't give this pro wrestling thing a shot? Is there any reason why they shouldn't be terrors in the ring? Historically, Pro Wrestling has had its share of big men, and to suddenly see them become ineefective would be very jarring and unrealistic to the vast, vast majority of the WWE's fanbase.

Edited November 4, 2003 by Grand Slam

[Damaramu 0]

Umm.........Lesnar, Cena, and the WGTT are ok. Yes there's some talented and entertaining new guys..push them.

Or how about push Eddie, Benoit, Chavo, Jericho, X, RVD, Edge, Booker, etc. to the top? They're talented and are all basically upper midcarders. That's what we mean when we say PUSH NEW GUYS to the top. They are the ones waiting to make it to the top. The other new guys(Orton, Batista, etc.) should be taking the "lost generation"s place. Not passing over them.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

There are about 10 or so wrestlers on the rosters that have the same schtick as Hossenfeffer. That's my beef. So what differs from someone like him from Batista, or Jones, or Morgan, or developmentals like Horshu or mainstays like Bradshaw? Answer: not much at all. Ohh, he can pound a small guy into submission. Just like that guy. And that guy. And that other guy.

 

So until there's some sort of differentiation or until the "BIG=GOOD" mindset is eradicated, "teh suck" will still apply.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

you know, at this point I don't even need new talented guys pushed. I'd rather see the old talented guys over these new turds.

[Kaertos 0]

MD, I agree. I would love to see Booker or Eddy or Benoit win the Big Belt. And, in general that is what should happen. And I think it is what will happen. I'm a patient man.

[Guest Plushy Al Logan]

How did Heidenreich ijure someone?! Did the wedgie go too far up the ass?

[Guest PowerPB13]

People, people, it's not all bad...

 

Very very soon, WWE will be out of business and the hoss will be out of a job.

 

It's as simple as that.

 

-Patrick

You must have a VERY loose definition of the term very soon.

 

WWE ain't going anywhere for a while

I hope you're wrong.

 

-Patrick

[Guest One Trick Pony]

So, it's ok for D'Lo, Owen, Edge, Benoit and RVD to make mistakes and injure someone...because they're talented. But if someone like Mack, Orton or Heidenreich does it, damn them to hell.

 

So, the moral of this story...

 

 

As long as you're relatively talented, and have somewhat of a smark following, then go nuts...injure whoever the hell you like.

 

I'm not saying Heidenreich's not at fault here, but come on...this is just another 'jump on the hate the hoss bandwagon' thread.

Actually you're totally trying to twist this so you can be an anti-smark. I brought up the fact that because Owen's a good wrestler, if he fucks up, it's clearly an accident because we know he's good at his job. It's like working as a cashier for years and one night being short as opposed to someone who just got hired and is short on their second night. It doesn't look good because you look like you're incompetent from the get-go.

[Downhome 0]

I haven't seen this yet I don't think, so here goes, from 1wrestling...

 

For those curious, here is an update on the injury to Steven Richards, which happened when taking a stiff slam from John Heidenreich at Raw last night. Richards basically aggravated a shoulder injury that he has been working with since back in his ECW days upon impact. The trainer and doctor at the show examined him last night and it appears he didn’t do any more damage to the injury. He will be monitored and if it gets worse, he will get further tests.

 

...I'm just glad he didn't get REALLY hurt, it looked very bad.

[vermilion 0]

I think Little Johnny is going to be his son. Get it? John and his son, little Johnny. I'd rather have that. More reality to a character. Wrestler needs job so he can support his kid. Fans could get behind that.

 

.....

 

Fuck it. Probably is a sock puppet.

That would be a logical idea..........but in the skit with the Hurricane, he said it wasn't his kid. Then he whispered it to the Hurricane and was eventually called "off his rocker".

[Guest Username]

i'm kind of curious as to what this whole 'little johnny' thing is all about. but we all know it's going to be incredibly stupid...it's inevitable. i can't wait...

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

You know I'm sick of hearing about how big men were all the rage back in the day. Out of all the big men that get listed when they talk about the "larger than life" characters back in the day how many of them are actually legends and how many of them are just big jokes that people look back on fondly out of nostalgia and nothing else?

 

Out of the long list of wrestling greats most of them probably aren't big men. Some of them are, but not as much as people tend to make it sound like.

[evilhomer 0]

How did Heidenreich ijure someone?! Did the wedgie go too far up the ass?

It was a modified power slam. He had him up on his shoulder in a Back Breaker type hold then threw him down. On the throw it looked like Stevie slipped out of his hands and he went down head and shoulder first HARD. They didn't show a replay so I couldn't really tell how he hit, I just knew that it wasn't right.

[King Cucaracha 0]

So, it's ok for D'Lo, Owen, Edge, Benoit and RVD to make mistakes and injure someone...because they're talented. But if someone like Mack, Orton or Heidenreich does it, damn them to hell.

 

So, the moral of this story...

 

 

As long as you're relatively talented, and have somewhat of a smark following, then go nuts...injure whoever the hell you like.

 

I'm not saying Heidenreich's not at fault here, but come on...this is just another 'jump on the hate the hoss bandwagon' thread.

Actually you're totally trying to twist this so you can be an anti-smark. I brought up the fact that because Owen's a good wrestler, if he fucks up, it's clearly an accident because we know he's good at his job. It's like working as a cashier for years and one night being short as opposed to someone who just got hired and is short on their second night. It doesn't look good because you look like you're incompetent from the get-go.

So, Heidenreich's powerbomb slip-up wasn't an accident because he's not 'talented' or because he's new?

 

 

As for me being an anti-smark, I guess I am. I like some 'hoss' wrestlers...well damn me to hell for being different from you. Go ahead, ridicule me for not being one of the crowd all the time. Say I'm twisting things because I don't have the same POV as you. That's fine by me. I'm not gonna stop liking someone just because he's 6 foot whatever, 300 odd pounds and can't do a somersault plancha.

 

And what's with all hosses being tarred with the same bursh. Surely you can't all hate all 'hosses'.

[notJames 0]

Not to get off-topic or anything, but would you guys consider Heidenreich's move a release Thunder Fire Powerbomb?

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

The difference between this guy and the "smark favorites" is a very simple one:

 

This guy has two televised matches and has almost seriously injuried someone. Benoit, Guerrero, Owen have been on tv hundreds and hundreds of time andhave had thousands of matches. So on the occasion that they do hurt someone it's considered an accident b/c they have experience. But when you do it fairly early in your career and with such a small body of work your going to get called out on it more.

[notJames 0]

Exactly. Someone as green as Heidenreich doesn't warrant the kind of leeway that a veteran would. Causing an injury in your second "big-time" match may not be just cause for a public stoning, but you can't just excuse it as a momentary gaff or lapse of concentration either. Newbies should be the ones who take the most caution when performing in the ring.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

And what's with all hosses being tarred with the same bursh.

Because they're all molded the same way from the same lumps of clay, so to speak.

 

Simple as that.

[PLAGIARISM! 0]

Well, considering Hardcore Holly, Bradshaw and Nathan Jones have all been recently shoved into demi-main event status, I don't hold out much hope for this guy surprising me, but would you think Brock Lesnar had any serious potential judging solely on his first 2 (or even first 10) televised matches?

[Highland 0]

It's my understading that Stevie Richards was already hurt, and Heidenreich's (sp?) move only served to aggravate the injury. Injuring someone so early in his career is definately a big strike against him, but I'll adopt the hated wait and see approach with him, before calling him down as a dangerous worker who causes injury, and I don't mean stiff like RVD, I mean seriously hurting people.

As for the infamous "hoss hate": I find some of it justified, but some of it unfair and unrealistic as well. It sounds like we'd like Albert or TBS to pull of a hurracanrana, or whatever, but it ain't happening. I also dismiss the argument that they all have the exact same moveset. I disagree; Test, Albert, and TBS each have different movesets, and so does the Undertaker, who IS a hoss, despite the iwc's newfound love for him.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I'm not calling for hosses to pull off cruiser moves. I'm calling for some hosses that can do more than power moves just for the sake of doing power moves. Someone who can actually string his moves together for something resembling a good match.