Hoff Posted December 3, 2003 Report Posted December 3, 2003 Tommy Dreamer was the living embodiment of hardcore wrestling. Discuss. And don't blow this off as "post whoring," I'm trying to get intelligent discussion going away from the WWE wasteland and in a place smart people go to. Plus I'm ridonkulously bored.
{''({o..o})''} Posted December 3, 2003 Report Posted December 3, 2003 He was a man, who knew that he wasn't the biggest or the strongest, but still gave all of himself to live his wrestling dream, and give everything he could back to the business he loves.
Perfxion Posted December 3, 2003 Report Posted December 3, 2003 Off topic: Johnson, that joke is dead and this thread isn't the worst ever. Cock shots wins that one. Go drive home drunk now. On Topic: Tommy Dreamer is dumb for killing himself for Hayman. Tommy is smart for being nice to everyone in ECW and WWE and still employed while everyone else who thought they were bigger than the business(Shane Douglas, I am Looking at you) is in Indy limbo hoping they can still cut it in this business. And Tommy dreamer didn't ever want to cut a babyface promo but had the crowd cheering for his promo as a babyface.
rising up out of the back seat-nuh Posted December 3, 2003 Report Posted December 3, 2003 Tommy Dreamer is the living embodyment of making the most of what you've got without ever improving as a wrestler. Like Goldberg, but more so.
Hoff Posted December 3, 2003 Author Report Posted December 3, 2003 Did he really never improve? I have to admit to not seeing much of his ECW stuff. I dunno, it just seems like when a guy gets that much of a following, he can't be bad his whole career. Not that you have to be bad to not improve, and I guess he was good at the one style he worked...I dunno, it just seems hard for me to believe that workrate and ass-busting alone could garner a man such a huge cult following. Dreamer's always mystified me that way.
Guest Jay Z. Hollywood Posted December 3, 2003 Report Posted December 3, 2003 Much love for Tommy Dreamer, one of the guys I in wrestling I really want to meet in person one day. I think the thing with Tommy is, you could tell at heart he was a really nice, hardworking guy, "just like one of you." That's his appeal.
HarleyQuinn Posted December 3, 2003 Report Posted December 3, 2003 Dreamer is probably the best example of the "average joe" as Shooter put it. He just gives this vibe that it could be you standing in his shoes. Also his feud with Raven didn't hurt heh. That definitely seemed to vault Dreamer into cult icon as he became the super underdog that kept losing but no matter what, kept coming back till he finally managed the win.
razazteca Posted December 3, 2003 Report Posted December 3, 2003 Did he really never improve? I have to admit to not seeing much of his ECW stuff. I dunno, it just seems like when a guy gets that much of a following, he can't be bad his whole career. Not that you have to be bad to not improve, and I guess he was good at the one style he worked...I dunno, it just seems hard for me to believe that workrate and ass-busting alone could garner a man such a huge cult following. Dreamer's always mystified me that way. Well considering that he worked with Terry Funk, Cactus Jack, Raven of course Tommy is Hardcore, he did learn from the best. [Allen Iverson]WORKRATE! F'N WORKRATE! we are talking about about Workrate?[/Allen Iverson] Who needs that when you can have the crowd eat out of your hands with psychology and tell a story in the ring that is not trapped in the confinds of traditional BS standards that is past its prime.
The Metal Maniac Posted December 3, 2003 Report Posted December 3, 2003 No, Dreamer wasn't. Why? Mick Foley was.
Hoff Posted December 3, 2003 Author Report Posted December 3, 2003 Care to expand on that, o Maniac of Metal?
The Metal Maniac Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Well, here's my take (considering that I don't really know much about Dreamer's early career): Foley drove how many miles every weekend, to sleep in his car, in the winter, just to get trained. That's hardcore. Foley is the King of the Deathmatches. That's hardcore. He's wrestled in about every type of hardcore match you can probably think of. He's the man who took probably the single most (in)famous bump in WWF history. He had a tooth come out his NOSE, somehow. Plus, he managed to make it all the way to the top of the wrestling mountain, without seriously comprimising his wrestling style, at least, no more then it had to be due to injuries. Plus, look at the guy. He's NOT a fucking athlete. He's a fat schlub; Yet somehow, he managed to turn his fat schlubness into the WWF champion. What has Dreamer done that Foley hasn't?
Guest Waldo Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 What has Dreamer done that Foley hasn't? Fuck Beulah HE'S HARDCORE! HE'S HARDCORE!
razazteca Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 What has Dreamer done that Foley hasn't? Fuck Beulah HE'S HARDCORE! HE'S HARDCORE! 1. Become EC F'N W Champion 2. Sell the DDT as if it was the MOST DANGEROUS MOVE IN THE WORLD 3. Make Justin Credible and RVD look good
The Metal Maniac Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 1. Become EC F'N W Champion For what? 15 minutes?
Sass Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 1. Become EC F'N W Champion For what? 15 minutes? It was even less than that.
Guest Waldo Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 1. Become EC F'N W Champion For what? 15 minutes? It was even less than that. and nobody cared about ECW at that point anyways
Highland Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Dreamer is the 'everyman' champion getting his ass kicked but always coming back for more, as someone above stated. Foley does all that too, he just does it alot better. And this thread should be moved to the wwe folder, and if this thread is worthy of intelligent debate and conversation, people will post replies to it. Spare me the argument of certain folders being populated by uber-smarks (HCD) and others merely by smarks (wwe)
razazteca Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Foley was never EC F'N W heavyweight champion. Tommy Dreamer was champion, even though it was just for a few minutes of sitting in the corner before the run-in clusterfucks began in usual manner. Also there is more to being hardcore than just doing weapons matches and/or bumping off of tables & ladders which Tommy did do in EC F'N W.
AndrewTS Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Anyone know the story about those really gay outfits he was wearing in those earlier tapes (like the one in the Snuka match)? I think he was very important to ECW...but he never really struck me as being a Raven, Sandman, Sabu, or New Jack. He was a passable worker who looked like a janitor. And again, he never made it outside ECW. Foley did. Hell, even Sandman and Raven at least gave it a shot outside of ECW and although they were mere midcarders, that's more than Dreamer was. He was loyal to ECW, but did any of the big two even want him?
razazteca Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Foley always made comments in his promos about bringing him to Uncle Eric...........or was Foley refering to Mikey Whipwreck?
The Metal Maniac Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Also there is more to being hardcore than just doing weapons matches and/or bumping off of tables & ladders which Tommy did do in EC F'N W. Like what? Wanting it more? Dedicating your life to the biz? Giving it your all? Cuz Foley did all that too. And yeah, so did Dreamer, but I still say Foley has the edge. Plus, more people know who Mick Foley is. How can someone be the embodiment of something if they were barely even known until they got signed to the fed, and then became known as just another guy on the roster? Foley even had his own Hardcore belt invented for him. That's hardcore. And I think it was Dreamer he wanted to bring to Uncle Eric...and if I'm not mistaken, the deal with Dreamer's gay outfits was...that was his gimmick at the time. I dunno much about it, though. SOmeone else could probably answer better.
Guest T®ITEC Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Gay outfits, hey? Exactly what did these look like? I've never heard about them.
Guest Goodear Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Puffy pants and suspenders... think High Energy with a little less puffy and no taxi cab designs.
razazteca Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 I think Tommy Dreamer follows the hardcore style of Terry Funk more than the Foley style. Take a F'N beating and still get up for more then stumble around like a punch drunk fool for awhile then get the miracle win at the end.
Guest cobainwasmurdered Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Tommy Dreamer is my favorite "Hardcore" wrestler. The stuff he's put his body through for the fans is amazing, especially considering how little he was paid. When I think of EcW I think of Dreamer and the most kickass entrance music ever, "Man in the Box".
Guest Dynamite Kido Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 Tommy Dreamer is my favorite "Hardcore" wrestler. The stuff he's put his body through for the fans is amazing, especially considering how little he was paid. When I think of EcW I think of Dreamer and the most kickass entrance music ever, "Man in the Box". it owns and there is no doubt about it.
alfdogg Posted December 4, 2003 Report Posted December 4, 2003 [Allen Iverson]WORKRATE! F'N WORKRATE! we are talking about about Workrate?[/Allen Iverson] We talkin' bout practice. Not a game, not a game, not a game... PRACTICE.
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