MrRant 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 BETHEL, Wash. — A music teacher's decision to replace "Christmas" with "winter" in a recent concert carol has many residents up in arms. Music teacher Mark Denison of Clover Creek Elementary School (search) in Bethel, Wash., changed the lyrics in Dale Wood's "Carol from an Irish Cabin" (search) to read: "The harsh wind blows down from the mountains and blows a white winter to me," reported the News Tribune. Parent Darla Dowell, whose 7-year-old daughter sang the song, told the Tribune the decision was "absurd." "I think the most important thing that angers me is that they sent a message to my child that there's something wrong with Christmas and saying Christmas and celebrating it and performing it at her school with her peers," Dowell told Fox News. She couldn't understand why it's okay to exclude Christmas when her daughter still sang Hanukkah tunes that included lyrics about the "mighty miracle" of Israel's ancient days. In that song, there were at least six mentions of the Jewish holiday. School officials admitted Denison may have gone too far in trying not to offend some people but they still backed him up. "The policy for our school district is to include both sacred and secular music," school district spokesman Mark Wenzel told Fox News. "We leave it to the individual music teacher to decide what music to choose. It's supposed to have some sort of learning value." Most school districts in the region, including Bethel's, allow both religious and secular songs to be performed during the holidays. Students at other schools in the district are still singing both types of songs, Mike Sander, director of arts education, told the Tribune. The policies of allowing both types of music comes from court rulings that say holiday traditions can be taught if the purpose is to provide secular instruction rather than promoting religion, the Tribune reported. No court has ever ruled that mention of the word "Christmas" in a public school violates the idea of separation of church and state. Clover Creek officials said students could get confused if the lyrics are changed back to the original version after having practiced the new version for a month. When some second graders were asked whether they wanted to keep in the word "winter" or use "Christmas," a slim majority voted for "winter." "They're making no attempt to fix the situation," Dowell told the Tribune. But no such vote was taken on the Hanukkah song. Dowell and a handful of other parents pulled their kids out of the performance. "Crossing out the word Christmas is just kind of like spitting on God," student Sheyenne Dowell told Fox News. But the word "Christmas" did get slipped into one song that was performed — in Benjamin Hanby's song, "Up on the Housetop." Dowell argued that school officials are contradicting themselves. "I've never made a stink about anything in my life," she told the Tribune. "But I feel very strongly about this." In the meantime, similar whitewash controversies are brewing around the country. In New York City, there's a lawsuit challenging the district's policy of encouraging schools to display menorahs and the Islamic crescent and star, while prohibiting Nativity scenes. In New Jersey, a school board eliminated all religious music from school programs. And in Kansas, a school district buckled under pressure from the American Civil Liberties Union and did away with its yearly visit from Santa. All this despite a Fox News poll recently released that showed 96 percent of Americans celebrate Christmas, which could mean all Grinches, beware. "Some of it is actually animated by a hostility to Christianity," said syndicated talk show host Dennis Prager. "There's no question about it. But let's be very clear — if this country drops its Christianity we are doomed. This is a Judeo-Christian values-based culture." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105451,00.html ------------------------------- This is just ridiculous to the extreme. Oh and OMG ITZ FROM FAUXNEWS.COM/2003 LOLZ!!!111 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Just Looking Report post Posted December 12, 2003 I am all for the separation of church and state, and especially in school, but this is too far. If they allow Hannukah songs, allow Christmas songs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 She couldn't understand why it's okay to exclude Christmas when her daughter still sang Hanukkah tunes that included lyrics about the "mighty miracle" of Israel's ancient days. In that song, there were at least six mentions of the Jewish holiday. OMG VAST JEWISH CONSPIRACY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 More evidence that the absolute worst thing you can be in America is 1) White 2) Christian 3) Heterosexual 4) Male Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Well in a way it is. There lately has seemed to be a targetting of Christian holidays but others are ok since I guess they are trying to make up for all the lost time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swift Terror 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Christmas trees seem to be an increasing target as well. The Dean of the law school of Indiana University removed the Christmas tree from the atrium after a professor and a few students complained. The complainers said they felt excluded. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 More evidence that the absolute worst thing you can be in America is 1) White 2) Christian 3) Heterosexual 4) Male If this was a joke, it ain't subtle enough for little old me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 More evidence that the absolute worst thing you can be in America is 1) White 2) Christian 3) Heterosexual 4) Male If this was a joke, it ain't subtle enough for little old me. I'm being serious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 I would agree with Kahran. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Metal Maniac 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 How can people be offended by "Christmas"? Honestly now. What's offensive about that? And those people who had the Christmas tree removed need their faces punched in. Aw, you don't feel included...TOO FUCKING BAD. Why don't we just cancel all holidays, so that no one ever has to feel left out? That'd be super! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 I'm not overly religious but it's almost getting to the point where I consider Atheists to be just as bad as the religious wing-nuts. They are both too extreme for my tastes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted December 12, 2003 This is what happens when a bunch of Christophobes run an organization like the ACLU. It seems the goal as of now is to have Christmas completely taken out of the calender piece by piece. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vyce 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 People do realize that Christmas, outside of the religious connotations, has essentially become a SECULAR holiday as well? They realize that, don't they? ......Don't they?!?! Someone please inform the atheists & other denominations that, despite all of the negative aspects of Christianity, those who practice it still have basic natural and constitutional rights. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 I would agree with Kahran. I would disagree, but I don't want to steer this topic in the wrong direction....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 12, 2003 More evidence that the absolute worst thing you can be in America is 1) White 2) Christian 3) Heterosexual 4) Male 1. Fuck. 2. Fuck. 3. Fuck. 4. Fuck. In fairness, there are certain forms of Christianity (that depending the day of the week) Get it worse than Roman Catholicism (What I am) Other wise, though, as like one of the Americans that fit that mold to a tee, I agree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Oh god.... AS and I both Roman Catholic? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted December 12, 2003 More evidence that the absolute worst thing you can be in America is 1) White 2) Christian 3) Heterosexual 4) Male Don't you mean the great Satan's of American culture? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Oh god.... AS and I both Roman Catholic? You're a Catholic? If your kid is a boy then I really fear for him. Oh, and bitch about all the religious wackos you want -- the people I really want to hit in the head with a baseball bat are these anti-Christmas extremists. I'm the farthest thing from being a spiritual person, but Jesus Christ (pun intended) this has gone out of control... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Hey now, I'm a Roman Catholic too(although my personal beliefs these days are more non-denominational), and I fit all those descriptions...except for the white guy thing. I guess I must have it easy. I also agree with the KKK, about boys... I mean Anti-Christian groups being more annoying than fundies. I mean I hate most Fundies, but most of them at least try to be polite and such, while the atheistic left tries to exaggerate to the Nth degree about everything and in turn piss me off so much more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpikeFayeJettEdBebop 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 I dont have a religion of choice(I guess you could call me Athiest, although I question m beliefs at times, I guess I am a bit Christian in the overall belief of God) Anyway, I also don't want to steer this topic away, but just to say that anyone crazy will be crazy, whether they are Crazy fuckin athiests, crazy fuckin Christians, it DOESN'T matter, they will be crazy fuckers. I am too mucho pissed at any mother fuckers who have beliefs that are totally off the wall and stupid(Like taking a Xmas tree down because someone feels left out.) Fuck that spoiled brat and leave the fuckin tree where it is. Man, this kinda shit really pisses me off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Oh god.... AS and I both Roman Catholic? Went to catholic school my whole life, was an altar boy (shut up) I had the whole Catholic experience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Oh god.... AS and I both Roman Catholic? You're a Catholic? If your kid is a boy then I really fear for him. Oh, and bitch about all the religious wackos you want -- the people I really want to hit in the head with a baseball bat are these anti-Christmas extremists. I'm the farthest thing from being a spiritual person, but Jesus Christ (pun intended) this has gone out of control... I don't practice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 More evidence that the absolute worst thing you can be in America is 1) White 2) Christian 3) Heterosexual 4) Male I've been saying this for years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BDC Report post Posted December 12, 2003 More evidence that the absolute worst thing you can be in America is 1) White 2) Christian 3) Heterosexual 4) Male I've been saying this for years. That'd be an affirmative. If they're feeling excluded, put a friggin' menorah (sp?) up or something. Or a Kwanza bush. Nowhere in the Constitution or the amendments does it say "you have the right not to be offended". I wish some judges would realize this... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tom 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Someone please inform the atheists & other denominations that, despite all of the negative aspects of Christianity, those who practice it still have basic natural and constitutional rights. While you're waiting for that, I'll inform you that not all atheists are like that. Shit, I don't care if you sing your little Xmas carols in front of a giant Nativity scene. I can see keeping SOME things out of schools, but striking most mentions of Xmas is ridiculous. It's a secular, commercial holiday in this country, and more people need to realize that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Even if it were removed from public acknowledgement piece by piece, the actual Christian believers would still publicly celebrate. I would. My school would. My church would Oh, and this is stupid. If I lived there, I'd go caroling with traditional hymns and sing as loudly as I could. That'd be cool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Christmas trees seem to be an increasing target as well. The Dean of the law school of Indiana University removed the Christmas tree from the atrium after a professor and a few students complained. The complainers said they felt excluded. Of course, the profs and the other assorted "offended" types fail to realize that the tree is not Christian, but rather a Pagan, symbol. Anti-Paganists! -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 More evidence that the absolute worst thing you can be in America is 1) White 2) Christian 3) Heterosexual 4) Male *zzzzzzzzz* Don't even start with this tired old rhetoric again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 Either get rid of ALL religious trash, or allow it all, but picking and choosing is both unfair, and intolerable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted December 12, 2003 More evidence that the absolute worst thing you can be in America is 1) White 2) Christian 3) Heterosexual 4) Male Hello, Michael "Savage" Weiner. It's good to see you've finally joined TSM at last, although it's saddening you had to hack someone's account to get in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
