Boy in 'Wrestling Death' Freed From Jail

[Perfxion 0]

An 11 year old pretending to wrestle with someone after watching Smackdown. SUPRISE SUPRISE! The only problem is the fact that the other person was too frail and died. He isn't a heartless monster. He was a fucking preteen. Since they were wrestling, wouldn't the charge be manslaughter anyways? Since it wasn't any thought of killing her at all? Isn't even second degree a little steep?

 

BTW, too all who say that they kill the person that did this. You are not only fucking stupid, you are all hypocrites. If you kill a "monster" because he killed someone, then you are a monster yourself. We have a judical branch for a reason. Their job is to handle these kind of people, not yours. This isn't the fucking 1880s. We aren't in the wild west. And this Tate person isn't Billy the Kid. All this talk of how badly you want to do something is just bullshit written on a Wrestling & Pop Culture messageboard. In real life half of these bullshit ramblings would be kept to yourself where they should here too.

[Guest Goodear]

An 11 year old pretending to wrestle with someone after watching Smackdown. SUPRISE SUPRISE! The only problem is the fact that the other person was too frail and died. He isn't a heartless monster. He was a fucking preteen. Since they were wrestling, wouldn't the charge be manslaughter anyways? Since it wasn't any thought of killing her at all? Isn't even second degree a little steep?

 

No he SAID they were pretending to wrestle and the problem was NOT that the girl was 'too frail' the problem was this guy STOMPED HER TO DEATH. I play wrestled many a god damned time with kids that were 2-5 years younger than me and we never had a scrape much less a serious injury. Don't tell me a 13 year old couldn't figure out that beating someone to death might be 'wrong'. He was 13... NOT RETARDED. Or is every thirteen year old ouyt there a sociopath, because I might want to start avoiding middle schools.

[Vyce 0]

Although, I'm not sure you really mind spilt blood all that much, do you?

When it's the blood of murderers, no, absolutely not. I'll fucking bathe in it.

 

MX - it was established quite well at trial that the boy continued to beat on the girl long after it became apparent that he was doing grievous harm to her.

 

Courts follow a "reasonable child" standard - would a reasonable child of his age , experience and intelligence know that he was severely injuring her? The answer at trial was an affirmative YES. But he kept beating her anyway.

 

There's no use for this animal. They should have locked him up and forgot about him. Leave him to rot.

[Guest Goodear]

Well, they are obviously less then human, Tyler, so it is only right that we, being perfect specimens of the Amerikan ideal, ridicule him and send him to die.

 

He didn't burn some fucking toast. He didn't accidentally scald his mom by spilling some spaghetti. He didn't even accidentally set off a gun a shoot someone. He kicked a kindergardner until she died from it. There's less than perfect and then there is beating a 50 pound girl to death. Please don't tell me you don't see the difference.

 

You don't send a fucking 13 year old to jail for life.

 

Why not? And if not, do you honestly think beating a girl to death should be met with three years of prision and a year of house arrest?

 

Although, I'm not sure you really mind spilt blood all that much, do you?

 

You sure don't seem to have problem with the blood this kid already spilled all over the place when he... what was it again... oh yes KICKED A 6 YEAR OLD TO DEATH.

[Guest Ghettoman]

Can someone give me a bit of info on this:

 

Me and my mom are arguing, I said "I'm pissed they have to blame wrestling for what was essentially some kid beating a little girl to death" she's like "well he broke her neck with a wrestling move and thats why she died", which of course led to a big yell off on really something neither of us knew, what was the cause of death and how did it pertain to his actions, from what I remember he essentially just bludgened her to death, my mom seems to remember the story where he hit some wrestling move and killed her.

 

I'd like to shove it in her face.

[Guest Ghettoman]

And jesus fuck with some of youl.

 

Whats with this constant idea that it's justifyable to simply give up on humanity!? He's 13, you act like whatever made him do what he did is genetic and the only way to correct the problem is to kill him.

 

I really, really hope that some of you never, ever have children.

[Youth N Asia 0]

I'd lay money on him getting into trouble again soon. He's a proven piece of shit and all around stupid person.

[Guest Goodear]

Which of course led to a big yell off on really something neither of us knew, what was the cause of death and how did it pertain to his actions, from what I remember he essentially just bludgened her to death, my mom seems to remember the story where he hit some wrestling move and killed her.

 

I'd like to shove it in her face.

According to the story quoted above he beat her to death with punches, kicks and stomps.

[Lando Griffin 0]

There was a thread on this a couple months ago where I typed a section from Mick Foley's second book where he describes the injuries. I don't feel like finding that thread or typing it again, but from what I recall, she had bruises all over, broken bones, and a lacerated kidney.

 

But he was 13, so let him pick up some trash, he'll be fine.

[Guest Ghettoman]

Yeah because it's either death or just send him right back into the community, and how dare we waste our tax dollars on something like trying to give him a second chance at life.

 

And thanks for the info on how it happened, I'm still confused as to why my mom thinks he killed her with one wrestling move.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Well apparently the mother of the victim forgave him, on accounts of him being a man and accepting that he intended to hurt her.

 

Of course being a man would mean that he wouldn't have been let out so early, so this is an odd paradox of sorts.

 

If he's gonna get tried again, what kind of sentence might he get then, for second degree murder?

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

I have the book sitting right in front of me.

 

From Foley is Good:

 

A fractured skull. A lacerated kidney. A cracked rib. Child's play? These were injuries that one prosecution expert said were comparable to falling from a three-story building.

 

here's the part where the brat shows no remorse for what he did:

 

If Mr' Lewis's "wrestling defense is to be believed, one would think that Lionel Tate would have been overwhelmed by grief following the death of little Tiffany as a result of this "horseplay." Right? Well, Tiffany's mother testified that when she told Lionel that her daughter was dead, "he shrugged and rolled his eyes." She also testified that Lionel asked if he could live with her and have Tiffany's toys."

 

Fuck parole, he should still be rotting in jail.

[Guest BDC]

I made the call in the last of these threads that he's gonna kill someone else.

[Guest MikeSC]

An 11 year old pretending to wrestle with someone after watching Smackdown. SUPRISE SUPRISE! The only problem is the fact that the other person was too frail and died.

That little wussy 6 year old couldn't handle injuries equivalent (well, according to the coroner) of a serious car accident.

 

Man, what a total wuss she is.

 

Heck, she probably DESERVED to die.

He isn't a heartless monster.

His behavior tends to disprove that notion.

He was a fucking preteen.

A heartless monster of a pre-teen.

Since they were wrestling, wouldn't the charge be manslaughter anyways?

It was as much a case of "wrestling" as it is "falling down steps" when a man beats his wife.

Since it wasn't any thought of killing her at all? Isn't even second degree a little steep?

No. His mother should be locked up for a LONG time, too.

BTW, too all who say that they kill the person that did this. You are not only fucking stupid, you are all hypocrites. If you kill a "monster" because he killed someone, then you are a monster yourself.

This from the guy who called a dead 6-year old girl "too frail".

We have a judical branch  for a reason. Their job is to handle these kind of people, not yours. This isn't the fucking 1880s. We aren't in the wild west. And this Tate person isn't Billy the Kid. All this talk of how badly you want to do something is just bullshit written on a Wrestling & Pop Culture messageboard. In real life half of these bullshit ramblings would be kept to yourself where they should here too.

Maybe you should follow that advice of yours.

 

Condemning an innocent dead little girl for being "too frail".

 

You are such an amazing twat rock. Words don't do justice to how loathesome a "human" you are.

-=Mike

..."Suck it up, girl. It was only massive internal injuries. PUSSY!"

[Firestarter 0]

I don't understand the liberal need to give these creatures "a second chance at life." Why? Honestly, why should I be interested in giving a murderer a second chance at anything? That's one more chance than their victims had.

There are plenty of other people you could be helping. Not every murderer deserves a second chance. Go out into the slums and give some kid a first chance... God knows you're willing to pay their mothers to have them.

[Ted the Poster 0]

The only problem is the fact that the other person was too frail and died.

Are you suggesting that a six year old girl can be as strong as a twelve year old boy?

 

Idiot.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Well, for obvious reasons, kids shouldn't be in prisons with adults. If you thought soap-dropping was a problem before...

 

So obviously we need a kid prison. We gotta have a kid prison! DAMNIT BUILD A KID PRISON...... But not here.

[MrRant 0]

Only if we can have kiddie electric chairs.

 

Perhaps in the shape of Elmo?

[notJames 0]

In all the hubbub over the culpability of a child, was there any discussion, legal or otherwise, about the woman who was supposed to be watching the two kids? From what I understand, the woman was sleeping when all this occurred, and when she heard the little girl screaming, she either told her to shut up or told Lionel to shut her up.

 

Where does her responsibility lie? Because if it was up to me, she should have gotten the chair.

[Guest Goodear]

No see, THAT'S a mistake. Quite frankly kids shouldn't need direct constant vigilance when they're 12. That is a sixth or seventh grader there and he should be able to be left alone without having to worry that he's going to kill someone. I'm sure the person watching them feels bad about the situation and would like to change things if they could, but they aren't being criminal.

[cynicalprofit 0]

Only if we can have kiddie electric chairs.

 

Perhaps in the shape of Elmo?

Fuck that, Blue's Clues Big Comfy chair, just to send a better message to the kids.

 

Ya know if they say let him out at say 25 and gave him a second chance, maybe, it would be ok. Ya fiugre that much time in jail, he'll come to how bad he fucked his life up. Of course if he fucks up again, chair the next day, no quesions asked.

 

He beat the crap outta a 6 year old girl, I seem to recall something about him slamming, and not like wrestling slamming, into a steel part of steps. Thats just fucking cold.

[notJames 0]

When someone trusts you enough to look after their child, you have to be even more vigilant with them than with your own kid. That's something a parent should automatically know.

 

According to Kathleen Grossett-Tate, Lionel's mom:

 

She recalled hearing a noise from downstairs where Lionel and Tiffany were playing. "I came and opened the door upstairs. I didn't go all way downstairs, I opened the door and I said, 'What was that noise?' And Lionel said, 'That was Tiff.' "

 

Grossett-Tate said she heard a sort of moaning noise, not crying or screaming, but she didn't go downstairs to check on the children. "I went back and laid down. Later on, I don't know how long after that, Lionel ran up the stairs knocking on the door." Lionel told his mother that Tiffany wasn't breathing. She said she ran downstairs, checked Tiffany, started doing CPR, and called 911. Ever since then, she's struggled with the fact that she didn't go downstairs. "You just don't know. You know how when things happen, people say, 'If only.' If only I had gone downstairs."

 

I've watched my friend's kids many times, and even I know to check out every moan, cry, wail, or even silence when they're not within my line of sight.

 

Lionel's attorney Richard Rosenbaum relays his thoughts:

 

Rosenbaum said Lionel has begun to talk in detail about what happened the night Tiffany died, and it's quite different from the story that came out at his trial. Rosenbaum said, "I believe … what really happened was Tiffany went down to the bottom of the spiral staircase. She laid down. Lionel went upstairs to go to the bathroom, when he came down, like a 12-year-old, he bound down the stairs, he jumped and he landed on her."

 

According to Rosenbaum, this was enough to lacerate Tiffany's liver and crack her skull. "Lionel describes it as she jerked up like she'd been hit with a fibrillator and her head hit the ground again," he said.

 

Rosenbaum thinks that Lionel was too afraid to tell the truth at the trial. "He's just a kid. He didn't know what would help — and this actually sounds worse," he said.

 

There are even more contradicting stories coming out of this case, stuff like the slamming couldn't have been done the way it was described because there was exercise equipment and boxes in the supposed area that it took place. You can read the article here.

 

The worst part is that no one will ever know the whole truth.

[Murmuring Beast 0]

You people sicken me. To quote the Bible, "let ye who has not sinned cast the first stone".

 

Now I'm not a big fan of that book but it sums out what people need to think about when they are sitting behind their keyboard wanting a teenage boy to be electrocuted or sent down for life.

 

What he did was wrong, but he'll know this. Of course he'll know. What would killing him do? Killing him would make us worse than he. This kid will be sorry. He'll have gone days when the only thing that will be on his mind is how he is sorry and how he would like everything to get back to where it was. Did he want to kill this girl? I doubt it. Did he set out to kill her? I doubt it also. Everyone deserves a second chance. It's a damn shame than someone has died from this but lets not kill another person physically or mentally. Let's get these misdirected kid back on the road so we can breed a better future. If we put him away for another 30 years, God knows what he'll be like when he comes out. Chances are, he'll be a twisted, bitter old man, uncapable of living on his own and in need of constant supervision. Would you like to help a twisted middle-aged man or would you like to help a teenager? We all need a bit of help in this life. Letting this boy go is the right thing. Give him the treatment he needs and through community service or whatever, let him give something back, no matter how little it is.

 

And don't fucking bother trying to label me a liberal or anything. I'm just a human, that's all.

[2GOLD 0]

For killing a six year old girl he got two to three years and people say HE'S LEARNED HIS LESSON???

 

What lesson? That killing someone younger than you isn't that big of a deal?

 

I'm not pissed he's alive, I'm not pissed he's not in prison for life, I'm pissed the little bastard didn't even get the same number of years as the girl's life.

 

The court has just basically said that since he is 13, he didn't know that killing a 6 yr old girl was wrong....excuse me? Are you f*cking kidding me?!?!

 

At the least, he should have been in prison till 19. He ended some young girls life and all he got was 3 years, so what FUCKING lesson did he learn??

 

I'm sorry, but three years for murder is a joke. He barely got half of her life. But of course, the life of the victim is secondary to the murderer who wants to lie on his pillow at night.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

You people sicken me. To quote the Bible, "let ye who has not sinned cast the first stone".

Well, until I pull a "Droz" on someone, I have a free pass when it comes to chucking rocks at someone that murdered someone else. And I make sure my rocks are big and on fire.

 

LET 'EM RIP BOYS...

 

[Guest MikeSC]

You people sicken me. To quote the Bible, "let ye who has not sinned cast the first stone".

Anybody here butcher any 6-year old girls?

 

Anybody?

 

I think we're good, then.

Now I'm not a big fan of that book but it sums out what people need to think about when they are sitting behind their keyboard wanting a teenage boy to be electrocuted or sent down for life.

 

What he did was wrong, but he'll know this. Of course he'll know.

He didn't care, you know, WHEN HE DID IT. He, to quote, shrugged, asked if he could live at her house and have her toys.

 

But, hey, I'm sure his lawyer gave him a stern talking-to.

What would killing him do? Killing him would make us worse than he.

Nah. He'd be guilty. She wasn't.

This kid will be sorry. He'll have gone days when the only thing that will be on his mind is how he is sorry and how he would like everything to get back to where it was.

He, of course, has never once expressed that.

 

Even if he did --- guess what? There are SOME THINGS YOU CAN'T GO BACK AND "FIX".

 

There are certain ACTS that REQUIRE the harshest punishment possible.

Did he want to kill this girl? I doubt it. Did he set out to kill her? I doubt it also. Everyone deserves a second chance.

The dead little girl failed to get one. Her screaming didn't seem to bug him.

It's a damn shame than someone has died from this but lets not kill another person physically or mentally. Let's get these misdirected kid back on the road so we can breed a better future.

Only way a better future can be "bred" is if his "seed" isn't part of the overall equation.

If we put him away for another 30 years, God knows what he'll be like when he comes out.

Well, probably not worm-ridden and dust, like the little girl he slaughtered, so he'll be better off regardless.

Chances are, he'll be a twisted, bitter old man, uncapable of living on his own and in need of constant supervision.

Well, outside of the old, that's what he is now.

Would you like to help a twisted middle-aged man or would you like to help a teenager?

I don't want to "help" him AT ALL.

We all need a bit of help in this life.

Psychobabble is given a bad name by this kind of thing.

Letting this boy go is the right thing. Give him the treatment he needs and through community service or whatever, let him give something back, no matter how little it is.

How about give him a gun and let him join her?

And don't fucking bother trying to label me a liberal or anything. I'm just a human, that's all.

No, you're a blithering idiot.

-=Mike

[Murmuring Beast 0]

No, you're a blithering idiot.

 

Explain.

 

Sorry for having an opinion on this matter. I thought most of you guys lived in America, the land of the free. Seems like I've just walked into Saddam-era Iraq. Its typical of America though. You can have an opinion but don't expect it to be taken seriously if its outside the norm. The 'my way or the highway' attitude of some Americans is the reason you're country is hated by so many.

 

Freedom of speech. Pfft.

[Guest MikeSC]

Explain.

 

Sorry for having an opinion on this matter. I thought most of you guys lived in America, the land of the free. Seems like I've just walked into Saddam-era Iraq. Its typical of America though. You can have an opinion but don't expect it to be taken seriously if its outside the norm. The 'my way or the highway' attitude of some Americans is the reason you're country is hated by so many.

 

Freedom of speech. Pfft.

The leaps in illogic in this post alone do more to illustrate your intellectual deficiencies than anything I could possibly write about it. I actually hear my brain cells begging for mercy rather than attempt to reason with your blitheringly idiotic self.

 

But, hey, keep playing the martyr card. It works REAL well when you clearly have no clue what the heck you're talking about.

 

Return to murmuring. Please.

 

Though the quote in your sig DOES explain the feelings I'm sure most of us feel when reading your drivel.

-=Mike

[Murmuring Beast 0]

Explain.

 

Sorry for having an opinion on this matter. I thought most of you guys lived in America, the land of the free. Seems like I've just walked into Saddam-era Iraq. Its typical of America though. You can have an opinion but don't expect it to be taken seriously if its outside the norm. The 'my way or the highway' attitude of some Americans is the reason you're country is hated by so many.

 

Freedom of speech. Pfft.

The leaps in illogic in this post alone do more to illustrate your intellectual deficiencies than anything I could possibly write about it. I actually hear my brain cells begging for mercy rather than attempt to reason with your blitheringly idiotic self.

 

But, hey, keep playing the martyr card. It works REAL well when you clearly have no clue what the heck you're talking about.

 

Return to murmuring. Please.

 

Though the quote in your sig DOES explain the feelings I'm sure most of us feel when reading your drivel.

-=Mike

Yea, but you're not actually explaining anything here. You're just putting me down.

[Guest MikeSC]

Explain.

 

Sorry for having an opinion on this matter. I thought most of you guys lived in America, the land of the free. Seems like I've just walked into Saddam-era Iraq. Its typical of America though. You can have an opinion but don't expect it to be taken seriously if its outside the norm. The 'my way or the highway' attitude of some Americans is the reason you're country is hated by so many.

 

Freedom of speech. Pfft.

The leaps in illogic in this post alone do more to illustrate your intellectual deficiencies than anything I could possibly write about it. I actually hear my brain cells begging for mercy rather than attempt to reason with your blitheringly idiotic self.

 

But, hey, keep playing the martyr card. It works REAL well when you clearly have no clue what the heck you're talking about.

 

Return to murmuring. Please.

 

Though the quote in your sig DOES explain the feelings I'm sure most of us feel when reading your drivel.

-=Mike

Yea, but you're not actually explaining anything here. You're just putting me down.

What's there to explain?

 

You're a blithering idiot because you are not terribly bright, lack even the most rudimentary usage of logic, and play the matryr when you clearly have no clue what the heck you're talking about.

 

"Oh, give him a second chance".

 

Screw that.

 

He BUTCHERED that girl. This wasn't horseplay. This was a 12-year old boy who beat the ever-loving beejeezus out of a SCREAMING little girl until the girl DIED.

 

But YOUR sympathy goes to the waste of genetic material boy?

 

I hope any kids you have in the future don't suffer the same fate as that girl --- though I doubt it'd bug you, as long as the killer gets his second chance.

 

Breaking a window with a baseball = stupid childish mistake.

 

Butchering a little girl = life-forfeiting act of murder.

 

And hearing people like you attempt to say that people shouldn't criticize because we aren't perfect is one of THE biggest problems in the world today --- and a sympton of an exceptionally weak and feeble mind.

-=Mike