The Smark Double Standard

[Guest Goodear]

People complaining over blown spots is stupid anyway. They happen to everyone. Hell according to reports on DVDVR, Ultimo Dragon blew his finish against Shannon Moore on Velocity and repeated the spot after a minute of posing. Mistakes happen all the time. The only problem is when they happen all the time like they would for Jeff Hardy. Orton makes a few mistakes every now and again... well so does everyone else. It's not like anyone on the roster is flawless.

 

Its just a bunch of people looking for any mistake they can find for Orton and pumping them up until they reach legendary status. The fact that people still talk about that match with Christian and Storm is downright silly.

[jester 0]

I don't hate Orton because he botches moves.

 

I hate him because i find him bland and uninteresting, but I keep seeing and hearing an awful lot about him.

 

Eddie, while not my favorite, is a lot more interesting. Never mind the ring skills.

 

If Orton botched every move he made, but was over like Austin, I'd say he would deserve all the TV time he got, and still find him bland and uninteresting.

[Guest Goodear]

I don't hate Orton because he botches moves.

 

I hate him because i find him bland and uninteresting, but I keep seeing and hearing an awful lot about him.

Perfectly reasonable.

[cabbageboy 0]

Everyone seems to be forgetting something: SMDN is taped. We likely won't even see the Eddie miscues, provided there actually were any notable ones. Stuff like a headscissors would be hard to pull off in a Royal Rumble setting anyway....lots of guys most likely.

[Damaramu 0]

Yeah Jester that's pretty much my reasoning. Everytime the guy steps in the ring I want to change the channel because I know the match is going to suck. Then I watch it and low and behold.......the match sucks. Wow.

I'm not going to crucify him for blowing spots. But b/c I don't like him and don't like his matches I'm going to laugh my ass off when he blows a spot. As a matter of fact I laugh my ass off when anybody blows a spot.

SS03' was hilarious. Goldberg falling, Kane falling off the top rope, and Kurt Angle botching his counter.......all funny.

[SamoaRowe 0]

Orton's fuck up was funny because he's Randy Orton, plain and simple. Those type of goofs happen on Smackdown all the time, only get edited out (I know because I saw Matt Hardy and Shannon Moore goof up at a taping). It really isn't that big of a deal and it's just another thing to have fun with in the world of wrestling.

[Guest Jimbo]

You must really like Orton man cause this is a pretty simple one to understand. Here is my advice. Go and get the tape(if you don't already have it) of the Halloween Havoc 97 match between Eddie and Rey. Orton could only dream of putting on a match like this......with ANYBODY. Keep in mind this is only ONE example of Eddie's stellar work in the past. Give me one of Orton's that remotely stacks up to this, and I'll agree with you.

I'm no Orton fan, but that's still a little unfair. Of course he blows, but the fact that he has no matches that compare to one of the best cruiserweight matches ever means that he is crap is silly.

[razazteca 0]

Move Orton to Smackdown so the production crew can hide and retape all of the miss spots.

[jester 0]

Move Orton to Smackdown so the production crew can hide and retape all of the miss spots.

You realize that means they feed each and every cruiser to him.

[Tawren 0]

I didn't make fun of Eddy missing the spot because *GASP* I HAVEN'T SEEN IT. NEITHER DID YOU. FOR ALL YOU KNOW THE SPOILERS GUY SAW IT WRONG AND EDDIE DID IT RIGHT.

 

You idiots really piss me off.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

You must really like Orton man cause this is a pretty simple one to understand.  Here is my advice.  Go and get the tape(if you don't already have it) of the Halloween Havoc 97 match between Eddie and Rey.  Orton could only dream of putting on a match like this......with ANYBODY.  Keep in mind this is only ONE example of Eddie's stellar work in the past.  Give me one of Orton's that remotely stacks up to this, and I'll agree with you.

I'm no Orton fan, but that's still a little unfair. Of course he blows, but the fact that he has no matches that compare to one of the best cruiserweight matches ever means that he is crap is silly.

You missed my point. How is this unfair? The first post in this thread was unfair. I wasn't the person that origianlly compared Eddie's work to Orton's in the first place. The ONLY reason why I compared Orton's work to this match is simply because it is a Cruiserweight match that has NO blown spots. Hell, it's not even Eddie's best match. I don't even mind Orton as much as I used to, but he's not in Eddie's ballpark.

[Guest KidKrash]

Last night on RAW, Orton botched the RKO and everybody laughed at him.

 

According to Slapnuts!, Eddie Guerrero botched three moves at the Smackdown Taping (contains mild spoilers) Eddie actually screwed up a few spots. He was supposed to a headscicors to eliminate Haas but he didn't go over so he had to kind of throw him over after. He also landed ackwardly on Rikishi with a frog splash like his knees going into Kish's face. Ouch. There was also a spot with Eddie and Angle both teasing going over the top and they nearly did, Eddy was this close to slipping off to the floor and one of the ref's RUSHED over and gave him a little lift back up. Woops!

 

Now, will anyone talk about how inept Eddie is, especially after bungling THREE moves in ONE match? No way. Eddie Guerrero, for reasons that elude me won't be judged by the same principles as Randy Orton. And keep in mind, too -- Eddie G is a veteran and Orton is still green. Shouldn't a veteran be censured more than a rookie who is prone to making mistakes? No, because the IWC has a selective memory, and it's a blatant representation of how we unequally judge wrestlers.

It's all the same for me. Whoever fucks up in the ring especially as much as has been reported should get shat on for fucking up. If Eddy's blown spots aren't too noticeable or they don't take away from the match then Eddy's making mistakes only the wrestlers know about. If it's as bad as it sounds he'll get shat on a lot more if he keeps doing it.

[AndrewTS 0]

Orton broke one of the big rules in wrestling on RAW, never ever do the same spot twice after you fuck up the first time.

 

Hell, he did it the first time he was injured...twice.

 

Eddy probably was having an off night--unless he's started wearing lifts like what probably caused Jericho to screw up during that period of botched spots.

 

Nevertheless, it's not comparable.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

Everyone botches a move every once in a while. No one is perfect. Not Eddie, not Benoit, not Angle, and not Orton. it's not like Orton goes out there and fucks up something every night. That was just a bad case. Besides, I think Jericho didn't help out on that move either. He was still holding on to Batista's legs when Randy went for the RKO. That would have made the move look like crap.

 

I think the lesson here is people... no one is perfect and people make mistakes. Don't go off on people for one botched move.

[Guest Anglesault]

it's not like Orton goes out there and fucks up something every night.

Well, his promos and his matches as a whole, but that's not what you mean.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

I mean the matches. His promos are pretty damn good. That one at the end of the night Mick Foley was just awesome. He slumped in the corner scarred shitless at Mick Foley going off on him like that. Great job by Orton there.

[Guest Anglesault]

I mean the matches. His promos are pretty damn good. .

I'll start what I finished?

 

He CONSTANTLY trips over is own words out there.

[Just call me Dan 0]

You could also have used the example of Goldberg falling during his entrance to mass laughter at SS, before Angle botched a DDT later on to nothing. But, I get your point.

And what did Kurt do after that botched DDT, you ask? HE REPEATED THE SPOT.

 

I guess that makes him a complete jackass for repeating a spot that was CRUCIAL to the match.

[clean rob 0]

I didn't think that DDT spot was too badly botched, I suspect most marks wouldn't have noticed - also, it wasn't repeated immediately as I remember, there were a few transition moves between the botched and the non-botched spots.

[Just call me Dan 0]

I remember it well and thought it was equally as obvious that they were totally fucked at that point and worked right back to the same spot.

 

If you want to use the "maybe some people didn't notice" logic, you could easily say that Jericho avoided it by not letting Orton catch his head since he was holding onto Batista, and then when Randy went back a second time, Jerico thought he'd meet him head on since he knew what was coming, but was caught in the RKO.

 

It's still repeating the spot.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

The DDT was bad but it wasn't as business exposing as the Orton thing was. He fucked it up the first time, Jericho had to completely break the hold so Orton could get him and Orton still managed to almost hurt himself on the ropes by jumping too far.

 

We haven't seen Eddie's spots but it sounds like he just moves on like it was part of the show. If he botches a headscissors and tries to do it again then he would get in trouble for it.

 

But comparing Eddie and Orton is pointless. Eddie has a huge body of work to judge where you can easily see he doesn't mess up often. Where Orton has a very small body of work where he's been injuried numerous times due to botching spots and messed up a finisher THAT he was GIVEN because of how easy it was to do.

[King Cucaracha 0]

You know, I'm not a great Orton fan...but I don't find him totally boring like some such as AS and Dama do. And there's nothing wrong with hating the guy for that. It's when people criticise him solely for botching spots and repeating them when it's something I'm sure 95% of all wrestlers have done at some point in their career.

 

The worst bit is, most of those people are then shocked that people are 'defending' Orton and not rejoicing about the Benoit title reign we've been hearing about for 4 months, and an Eddie title reign which is purely speculation anyway.

 

 

As, I think you're right about Orton on the tripping over words part. If it wasn't for that, his promos wouldn't be so bad. Whever it be nerves or just lack of natural public speaking ability, it's something that SHOULD have been dealt with before he came up with acting lessons or talking skills training, or something. But still...I'm sure talking with Mick Foley brings nerves up...I think Orton did an excellent job at the end of Raw though, personally.

 

Whoever said Orton sucks because he can't have a match like Rey/Eddie is dumb as fuck. Not EVERYONE can put on 5 star matches, it doesn't have to mean they're not able to go out and provide useful segments. Plus, Eddie trained in Japan, ECW, Mexico...same for Mysterio. Orton got a couple of months in OVW and then got a substancial push. There's a BIG difference there.

[clean rob 0]

I haven't seen the Orton spot which this discussion seems mostly based on, but I stand by that the Angle DDT spot wasn't too badly botched. Remember, marks don't see the match as consisting of a bunch of spots so a reasonable amount of covering up a slightly botched spot will go relatively unnoticed. And that's what Angle and Lesnar did, a reasonable amount of covering up.

[Guest Corino 1000]

Is it really that hard to miss the RKO......Was he temperially blind, Retarded, or a crappy wrestler

 

 

 

.........Yeah I think ill go with the last.

 

Does anyone have the botched RKO capped. If you do can post it up or something I wanna see that agian.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

But will Eddie's fuck-ups elicit laughter at the comical visual nature of them the way Orton's did? Will it makes us all go ?

 

That's the important part.

 

Wrestling, thanks to WWE's incompetance from 2001, 2002, and 2003 have rendered wrestling discussion, and smark discussion to be really not that big a deal anymore.

[LooseCannon25 0]

I think some people here are a LITTLE too hard on Orton, but on the other hand, you can't really blame them since he's been positioned higher than Jericho, Christian, Matt Hardy, RVD, and Booker T and all those guys have been around and proven their worth.

 

 

This guy for whatever reason gets the world handed to him as soon as he enters the WWE. It all started with the 3rd Generation promos. Rock never got those promos. Lesnar was pushed to the moon, but he took some lumps first. Orton doesn't deserve his position and has much much to prove. Until then he will continue to get bashed until he proves his worth.

[JustJoe2k5 0]

You could also say that with Eddie Guerrero being such a veteran that he shouldn't have botched the moves anyway, you can look at this thing from any side you want. I didn't see the match on Monday so I don't what in the hell everyone is talking about.

[Highland 0]

This guy for whatever reason gets the world handed to him as soon as he enters the WWE. It all started with the 3rd Generation promos. Rock never got those promos. Lesnar was pushed to the moon, but he took some lumps first. Orton doesn't deserve his position and has much much to prove. Until then he will continue to get bashed until he proves his worth.

 

The world handed to him? Odd, I haven't seen him in a world title match yet, his only connection to the main event is being part of Evolution and so far the only "legends" he's "killed" are washed-up has-beens. Where the fuck is this uber-push everyone is bitching about? Until you see him in a world title match or laying out someone like HBK clean don't tell me he's being shoved down our throats. He's a mid-carder being pushed as a midcarder.

[Tawren 0]

This guy for whatever reason gets the world handed to him as soon as he enters the WWE. It all started with the 3rd Generation promos. Rock never got those promos. Lesnar was pushed to the moon, but he took some lumps first. Orton doesn't deserve his position and has much much to prove. Until then he will continue to get bashed until he proves his worth.

 

The world handed to him? Odd, I haven't seen him in a world title match yet, his only connection to the main event is being part of Evolution and so far the only "legends" he's "killed" are washed-up has-beens. Where the fuck is this uber-push everyone is bitching about? Until you see him in a world title match or laying out someone like HBK clean don't tell me he's being shoved down our throats. He's a mid-carder being pushed as a midcarder.

That explains why, despite his complete lack of heat, he is on every show several times, gets longer matches than most everyone else, wins every match he is in clean, and is in a main event program with Mick Foley. Because he's being pushed as a midcarder.

[Highland 0]

This guy for whatever reason gets the world handed to him as soon as he enters the WWE. It all started with the 3rd Generation promos. Rock never got those promos. Lesnar was pushed to the moon, but he took some lumps first. Orton doesn't deserve his position and has much much to prove. Until then he will continue to get bashed until he proves his worth.

 

The world handed to him? Odd, I haven't seen him in a world title match yet, his only connection to the main event is being part of Evolution and so far the only "legends" he's "killed" are washed-up has-beens. Where the fuck is this uber-push everyone is bitching about? Until you see him in a world title match or laying out someone like HBK clean don't tell me he's being shoved down our throats. He's a mid-carder being pushed as a midcarder.

That explains why, despite his complete lack of heat, he is on every show several times, gets longer matches than most everyone else, wins every match he is in clean, and is in a main event program with Mick Foley. Because he's being pushed as a midcarder.

Meaningless midcard matches, except for the one with RVD. Oh, wait now you'll tell me RVD carried him all through the match because of that concussion, but if he didn't have one and he had to carry RVD (as is usually the case) we'd be hearing "How hard is it to carry RVD to a match?"