scott keith's wmxx review

[Michrome 0]

These ratings are just hilarious.

 

If that 3-way was *****, the February 2002 RoH 3-way was ******. Honestly, I loved the match and all, but that's just being ridiculous.

 

Angle-Eddy wasn't close to what he gave it either. They through a match full of intense build out the window for a mindless finisher-city finish that rendered the rest of the match pointless. Disappointing.

[DCMaximo 0]

People, they're called opinions. Just because you disagree with someone else's match ratings doesn't make them wrong. Hell, I'd make Y2J/Christian the second best match of the night, after the ME, but I wouldn't insult someone for prefering Guerrero/Angle. I know we can't all agree (hell, this forum would be damn boring if we did), but people can't be wrong over their opinion on a match

[Fökai 0]

He's a dumbass because he called that *****, it clearly wasn't.

When will people ever learn what the definition of opinion is?

 

HINT:...

 

If that 3-way was *****, the February 2002 RoH 3-way was ******. Honestly, I loved the match and all, but that's just being ridiculous.

 

The ROH 3-way didn't get 20,000 people in an arena, as well as millions at home, shouting "TAP TAP TAP" at the top of their lungs, though.

 

Dragon/Ki/Daniels is a great display of wrestling; HHH/HBK/Benoit is a display of why we, the fans, STILL watch: the competition, the emotion and the feeling of being "the best" in your profession (WWE title aside).

[Guest godofdeadlydeath]

The crowd wasn't THAT into it at all,  they barely reacted for HHH or HBK and Benoit certainly wasn't that over either, until the end.

Go back and watch it, the crowd was consistently chanting for Benoit. They even BOOED HBK when he ripped off the rolling Germans and chanted for BENOIT when Chris was laid out outside and HBK was making his comeback. The crowd was in love with him and the crowd reactions reached a fever pitch at the end when HHH tapped.

That's one problem right there. The fact they boo'd HBK spoilt the match for me. Because the way some sequences went it was obvious the crowd was expected to be behind HBK as well as Benoit....and when that turned out not to be the case, it seemed like they didnt change a thing. They still used HBK as a face and set up comebacks for him even though the crowd was clearly not interested in him one bit.

 

It's fair enough to say they were behind Benoit. But from what I remember there weren't any really overwhelming Benoit chants.

No offense, but are you deaf? Did you not hear the "BENOIT BENOIT!" and "Let's go benoit (clap clap clapclap clap)" chants throughout the entire match, specifically the parts where he was knocked down? The crowd reaction for Benoit standing up after the suplex through the table (although he wasn't shown getting up until he broke the count) was so nuts and loud.

[Styles 0]

**1/2

You're just a sad, jaded fan, aren't you? Whatever, I guess it had too much HHH in it, and the fact that it was viewed by a mainstream audience in a sold out arena rather than a shady convention center on a bootlegged video tape takes down it's quality...

Wow, I'm being stereotyped more than Chief Alcoholic Eagle here.

 

HHH being in a match has no problem with me. He jobbed clean. He is OK in the ring.

 

Shady convention center, eh? Depends if it's on handheld or pro shot. Handhelds = credibility. If I see this on handheld, I might bump it up to *****. (JOKING)

 

Bootlegs? As long as it is 1st or 2nd gen it is usually fine with me.

 

So, care to present an actual argument or just take shots at me?

Thanks for taking the jests in good gesture.

 

Well, let's see your arguments?

They didn't sell? I don't see how you can say that, they had to since they 1 guy had to be eliminated for each guy to have a segment with each other.

The blade jobs did make sense. Shawn hit head first into the steel post and did a fabulous mid air blade job. I think HHH got hit into the stairs, but I honestly don't remember at the moment.

Your criticizing an innovative and creative spot in HHH physically stopping HBK's hand from tapping. I don't even remember the last time someone verbally submitted in WWE, and you could say Benoit's arm was muffling Shawn's mouth in the crossface, so that wasn't an option.

The table spot wasn't contrived, it made sense. HBK was dealing with the devil. They both realised they could work together to elminate Benoit and fight amongst themselves, thats why they gave each other that look before suplexing him. It made it all the more dramatic when Benoit broke up the pedigree pinfall at the last second.

The sharpshooter was great, and dramatically built to. HHH struggling against having it put on just adds realism and made it all the better when Benoit put it on.

I don't see how you could be down on the announcing, JR and even King was ON. They put over everyone huge and gave the match a big match feel.

So there's your argument. I got to say anyone who thinks it was less than **** is just jaded and looking for things to complain about.

[Guest Random Hero]

Yeah I probably am deaf. The ear-splitting pop Benoit got on his entrance fucked my hearing right up.

[Tawren 0]

**1/2

You're just a sad, jaded fan, aren't you? Whatever, I guess it had too much HHH in it, and the fact that it was viewed by a mainstream audience in a sold out arena rather than a shady convention center on a bootlegged video tape takes down it's quality...

Wow, I'm being stereotyped more than Chief Alcoholic Eagle here.

 

HHH being in a match has no problem with me. He jobbed clean. He is OK in the ring.

 

Shady convention center, eh? Depends if it's on handheld or pro shot. Handhelds = credibility. If I see this on handheld, I might bump it up to *****. (JOKING)

 

Bootlegs? As long as it is 1st or 2nd gen it is usually fine with me.

 

So, care to present an actual argument or just take shots at me?

Thanks for taking the jests in good gesture.

 

Well, let's see your arguments?

They didn't sell? I don't see how you can say that, they had to since they 1 guy had to be eliminated for each guy to have a segment with each other.

The blade jobs did make sense. Shawn hit head first into the steel post and did a fabulous mid air blade job. I think HHH got hit into the stairs, but I honestly don't remember at the moment.

Your criticizing an innovative and creative spot in HHH physically stopping HBK's hand from tapping. I don't even remember the last time someone verbally submitted in WWE, and you could say Benoit's arm was muffling Shawn's mouth in the crossface, so that wasn't an option.

The table spot wasn't contrived, it made sense. HBK was dealing with the devil. They both realised they could work together to elminate Benoit and fight amongst themselves, thats why they gave each other that look before suplexing him. It made it all the more dramatic when Benoit broke up the pedigree pinfall at the last second.

The sharpshooter was great, and dramatically built to. HHH struggling against having it put on just adds realism and made it all the better when Benoit put it on.

I don't see how you could be down on the announcing, JR and even King was ON. They put over everyone huge and gave the match a big match feel.

So there's your argument. I got to say anyone who thinks it was less than **** is just jaded and looking for things to complain about.

Selling was bad on all three's parts, but there was no real work on any body part so I won't go in depth on it for specific cases. I really don't like the style of "german suplex, HBK is down, Benoit vs HHH, HBK's back just in time and is conveniently perfectly fine now".

 

Camera never showed HBK hit the post, I was just under the impression he went chest into turnbuckle. Still, it was a small cut at first then dramatically bigger later, which I hate, plus I maintain he never was hit hard enough to bleed. Pretty much same with HHH.

 

Table spot was horribly contrived. Lets both get rid of the monitors...now stand there...wait, back on knees...ok HBK is here...ope, gotta set it up...come on man, hurry up...OK here we go...OK...suplex through the table. Con-trived.

 

I'm not jaded...I'm not biased...I'm objective. I hated it.

[humongous2002 0]

Keith who??

Anyway i think the 3 way dance was ****!/2 , it was a great match but not that great.

Eddie/Angle was ****, great storytelling that showed how smart Eddie is.

Brock/Shitberg 1/2*, the match sucked and the crowd reaction said it best.

Taker/Kane dud "Deadman Badass"??

Y2J/Xian ***

Rock/Sock v. Evolution **1/2 hopefully WWE realizes that the Orton push is going nowhere, there was no reaction when he pinned Mick.

Molly/Victoria *1/2

RAW tag titles ** 2 heatless teams, the stale Duds and 2 single wrestlers stuck as a team.

SD tag titles *1/2 the wrong team went over.

Cruiserweight **1/4 too rushed.

[snuffbox 0]

Tawren...if Chris Daniels, Ricky Steamboat, and Mitsuharu Misawa worked the exact same triple threat match at the Tokyo Dome or Budokan Hall or ECW Arena...what would your rating be?

[Papacita 0]

Yeah I probably am deaf.  The ear-splitting pop Benoit got on his entrance fucked my hearing right up.

WWE explained a while ago that in a few of the big arenas like MSG, some of the bigger crowd reactions are a little bit muffled due to the height of the ceiling, acoustics, etc. Even with that, Benoit's pops sounded pretty loud on TV...plus, everyone in attendence has said that the crowd went crazy for Benoit.

[Guest godofdeadlydeath]

Yeah I probably am deaf.  The ear-splitting pop Benoit got on his entrance fucked my hearing right up.

WWE explained a while ago that in a few of the big arenas like MSG, some of the bigger crowd reactions are a little bit muffled due to the height of the ceiling, acoustics, etc. Even with that, Benoit's pops sounded pretty loud on TV...plus, everyone in attendence has said that the crowd went crazy for Benoit.

Let him deny it, it's fine. People hear what they want to.

[Guest Brian]

The crowd wasn't THAT into it at all,  they barely reacted for HHH or HBK and Benoit certainly wasn't that over either, until the end.

Go back and watch it, the crowd was consistently chanting for Benoit. They even BOOED HBK when he ripped off the rolling Germans and chanted for BENOIT when Chris was laid out outside and HBK was making his comeback. The crowd was in love with him and the crowd reactions reached a fever pitch at the end when HHH tapped.

That's one problem right there. The fact they boo'd HBK spoilt the match for me. Because the way some sequences went it was obvious the crowd was expected to be behind HBK as well as Benoit....and when that turned out not to be the case, it seemed like they didnt change a thing. They still used HBK as a face and set up comebacks for him even though the crowd was clearly not interested in him one bit.

 

It's fair enough to say they were behind Benoit. But from what I remember there weren't any really overwhelming Benoit chants.

Are you talking about the HBK that jacked Benoit's move? Or the HBK that worked with HHH to throw the double suplex?

 

And why would they be expected to cheer him? Because he didn't earn his way into that match? Because he was selfish? Because of how he cheap-shotted Benoit?

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Just to be even stupider...

 

I hereby rate the Main Event 3/4*

[Guest Jimbo]

*rolls eyes*

 

The 3 way was good, but not that good.

 

I mean really, *****?

 

I don't know how one call Tawren a "jaded fan" when if Benoit hadn't won, none of you would have given it a 5*, must less 4* rating. THis has nothing to do with HHH finally tapping and in fact, I applaud HHH for doing so, and I still don't think it was any overly spectacular.

 

This is silly Benoit super-fan boy arguing. The match was good, but by no means anything that would set the world on fire as some are making it out to be.

[snuffbox 0]

Just to be even stupider...

 

I hereby rate the Main Event 3/4*

[snuffbox 0]

*rolls eyes*

 

The 3 way was good, but not that good.

 

I mean really, *****?

 

I don't know how one call Tawren a "jaded fan" when if Benoit hadn't won, none of you would have given it a 5*, must less 4* rating. THis has nothing to do with HHH finally tapping and in fact, I applaud HHH for doing so, and I still don't think it was any overly spectacular.

 

This is silly Benoit super-fan boy arguing. The match was good, but by no means anything that would set the world on fire as some are making it out to be.

Uh...a match is better when the right guy goes over...

 

Better = More stars.

[The Mandarin 0]

Main event gets a DUD, and don't get me started on Angle/Eddie. I'd have to whip out the hot pokers.

[Guest Brian]

I liked it alot. The story was Benoit against the world, really. The man who worked hard all his life earned his way to the top, but is being confronted by not just the champ but HBK. I thought, say the first ten minutes were flowing extremely well for a three-way before it sort of degenrated into that two man-break up scene. Benoit was on the attack the entire match. Up until the point where the whole thing culminated, where HBK threw his hatred of HHH aside to get Benoit out of the match. And it backfired on him. And that's where they hit the final stretch.

 

The crossface spots with HHH beckoned back to the 2000 matches.

 

The selling was fine. Nothing really specific to expect.

 

I think it stands up really well with the ROH three-way. I liked that match, but it was pretty spotty and Lo-Ki's selling is downright horrible at times.

 

I thought the crowd played tremendously to this match.

 

There are other spots I could elaborate on if I had my tape on hand.

[AndrewTS 0]

I liked the show. Most of the right people over, and the ones that counted pretty much had the right people go over. Benoit was not made to look weak. The match got me into it....

 

However, Keith's ratings and some of the ratings here: BWAHAHAHAH!!!

 

It was fun to watch, there was blood, and the ending was awesome, but I can't give the Raw title match more than *** on the match alone, sorry. Call me bitter and jaded if you want, but it we've seen far, far better matches from each of them within the last several months.

[Guest Jimbo]

*rolls eyes*

 

The 3 way was good, but not that good.

 

I mean really, *****?

 

I don't know how one call Tawren a "jaded fan" when if Benoit hadn't won, none of you would have given it a 5*, must less 4* rating. THis has nothing to do with HHH finally tapping and in fact, I applaud HHH for doing so, and I still don't think it was any overly spectacular.

 

This is silly Benoit super-fan boy arguing. The match was good, but by no means anything that would set the world on fire as some are making it out to be.

Uh...a match is better when the right guy goes over...

 

Better = More stars.

yes, but just because Benoit won, a decent match now becomes a ***** match of pure Godliness? That's crap.

[Tawren 0]

Tawren...if Chris Daniels, Ricky Steamboat, and Mitsuharu Misawa worked the exact same triple threat match at the Tokyo Dome or Budokan Hall or ECW Arena...what would your rating be?

I'd have to say the match to rate it.

[Fökai 0]

Everyone sold perfectly? Nope. HBK had his traditional no-selling fun,

That's definitely an objective opinion. Let's rely on past performances by Michaels to judge this match, since you are UNBIASED and OBJECTIVE, right?

There were some pretty cool spots, but they were contrived as hell. The double suplex through the table was so contrived...why didn't HHH do it himself?

It was a stiff suplex, which in its velocity could be only be performed by two men. Michaels and Helmsley literally THREW Benoit into the table, which put him out of commission in the fans' eyes.

Why was HHH hurt more, as HBK bounded into the ring to point at HHH?

HHH was brawling with Benoit for the time being, while Michaels was recovering from the post shot/bladejob which happened a few minutes earlier. HBK had the most "wind" in him at that point, even though it was evident he hurt the most (he was quickly put out of commission AGAIN by HHH's pedigree and Benoit's suplex.)

When Benoit had HBK in the crossface and HBK went to tap out but HHH grabbed his arm, why didn't HBK submit verbally?

The fans are trained to see a clean decision by a three count or tap-out submission: the crowd would've farted on "I Quit" being the finish.

 

**1/2

Tawren's a dumbass.

[snuffbox 0]

*rolls eyes*

 

The 3 way was good, but not that good.

 

I mean really, *****?

 

I don't know how one call Tawren a "jaded fan" when if Benoit hadn't won, none of you would have given it a 5*, must less 4* rating. THis has nothing to do with HHH finally tapping and in fact, I applaud HHH for doing so, and I still don't think it was any overly spectacular.

 

This is silly Benoit super-fan boy arguing. The match was good, but by no means anything that would set the world on fire as some are making it out to be.

Uh...a match is better when the right guy goes over...

 

Better = More stars.

yes, but just because Benoit won, a decent match now becomes a ***** match of pure Godliness? That's crap.

It was more than decent...

 

I question the mindset of anyone giving it anything less than 3 1/2 stars...

 

Definitly a solid ***1/2* - **** match. The drama, crowd, heat, spots, blood, general perfection, and right guy going over made it a 5* match, imo.

 

Giving it too much less is just trying to hard t bitch/whine about something/anything. If you couldnt appreciate that match...dont watch, nothing will entertain you.

 

Grab a Best of Jumbo Tsuruta tape or whatever gets your rocks off and please bitch elsewhere.

[Guest TheHulkster]

HBK got shit on early, but he worked so hard throughout the match that the fans couldn't help but cheer him. That match made the PPV. Who cares if they didn't work a body part. That not really what ring psych is all about. Besides, it was a triple threat match. They used triple threat match psychology better than almost anyone i've ever seen. ****1/2-****3/4 would be understandable. ***** is overrating it a bit, but giving it **1/2 tells me you haven't seen the match.

 

I didn't like Eddie Vs Angle at all. Keith probably gave it ****+ because it was Angle Vs Eddie, not for the actually content of the match. I like both guys, but i've seen better out of them this year.

 

Rock & Sock Vs Evo was a really fun match. It wasn't a particularly great match, but it was fun. My favorite part of the match was after Rock sunset flipped Flair on the outside. They have the camera on Flair lying on the ground, and out of nowhere Foley flys into the shot nailing Flair with the cactus elbow. He bang-banged and disappeared like 3 seconds later. It was just so out of nowhere that I laughed out loud. Rocky with the Tree of Woe nutshot behind the ref's back on Orton and the strutting elbow are up there too. Foley looked to be in excellent shape (for Foley at least).

 

Christian Vs Jericho really suprised me. I didn't think it would be as good as it was.

 

Brock Vs Goldberg was the Bizarro Hogan/Rock. I was highly entertained although the match kinda stunk.

[snuffbox 0]

Tawren...if Chris Daniels, Ricky Steamboat, and Mitsuharu Misawa worked the exact same triple threat match at the Tokyo Dome or Budokan Hall or ECW Arena...what would your rating be?

I'd have to say the match to rate it.

Exact same match. Time. Spots. Just those 3 guys at the Budokan or something...whats your score?

 

**1/2?

[Tawren 0]

Everyone sold perfectly? Nope. HBK had his traditional no-selling fun,

That's definitely an objective opinion. Let's rely on past performances by Michaels to judge this match, since you are UNBIASED and OBJECTIVE, right?

I was unbiased and objective. Note how I didn't say Benoit was his usual godly self, because he wasn't? Yep. Did you even see the match? HBK sells like a pile of crap.

 

There were some pretty cool spots, but they were contrived as hell. The double suplex through the table was so contrived...why didn't HHH do it himself?

It was a stiff suplex, which in its velocity could be only be performed by two men. Michaels and Helmsley literally THREW Benoit into the table, which put him out of commission in the fans' eyes.

 

I've already covered how long it took to set up and etc.

 

Why was HHH hurt more, as HBK bounded into the ring to point at HHH?

HHH was brawling with Benoit for the time being, while Michaels was recovering from the post shot/bladejob which happened a few minutes earlier. HBK had the most "wind" in him at that point, even though it was evident he hurt the most (he was quickly put out of commission AGAIN by HHH's pedigree and Benoit's suplex.)

 

But they both just did the same move and HBK already had gone blade crazy (I don't remember if HHH was bleeding yet, but HBK had the bigger job), so you'd assume they are close enough to the same.

 

When Benoit had HBK in the crossface and HBK went to tap out but HHH grabbed his arm, why didn't HBK submit verbally?

The fans are trained to see a clean decision by a three count or tap-out submission: the crowd would've farted on "I Quit" being the finish.

 

**1/2

Tawren's a dumbass.

 

Not really.

[Tawren 0]

Tawren...if Chris Daniels, Ricky Steamboat, and Mitsuharu Misawa worked the exact same triple threat match at the Tokyo Dome or Budokan Hall or ECW Arena...what would your rating be?

I'd have to say the match to rate it.

Exact same match. Time. Spots. Just those 3 guys at the Budokan or something...whats your score?

 

**1/2?

First, I'd question why they are doing crossfaces and pedigrees and announcer table suplexes. But let's assume that's normal everywhere else. (That was a joke)

 

I'd give it the same rating.

 

EDIT: I just noticed I put "say the match". I meant "see". I'm sure you knew that, but still: typo.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Tawren...if Chris Daniels, Ricky Steamboat, and Mitsuharu Misawa worked the exact same triple threat match at the Tokyo Dome or Budokan Hall or ECW Arena...what would your rating be?

I'd have to say the match to rate it.

It wouldn't have happend period if logic is right. Steamboat retired in 1994 wrestling in WCW. Daniels has been a pro I think 8 years, so he didn't show up until 1996. Maybe 1995 the earliest I don't know.

 

 

 

 

And anyone who says Benoit got no reaction is FUCKING DEAF. You literally have to be not to realize the pro-Benoit chants for the whole match and the anti-everyone elses when Benoit might lose.

 

I said the match flirted with ****, and I'll keave it at that.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Just watched it again.

 

I don't know what I was thinking with the 3/4* rating.

 

...

 

1/4* if that.

[snuffbox 0]

Tawren...if Chris Daniels, Ricky Steamboat, and Mitsuharu Misawa worked the exact same triple threat match at the Tokyo Dome or Budokan Hall or ECW Arena...what would your rating be?

I'd have to say the match to rate it.

It wouldn't have happend period if logic is right. Steamboat retired in 1994 wrestling in WCW. Daniels has been a pro I think 8 years, so he didn't show up until 1996. Maybe 1995 the earliest I don't know.

 

 

 

 

Wow....not too familiar with the word 'hypothetical' eh?