Make a statement

[what 0]

Are you going to actually, ya know, elaborate on your points or just continue to look like a mook and say "Benoit is bad."?

What have you elaborated on? You just stated that he's better than Orton and that's it.

 

Benoit marks always say "oh, he's not THAT bad on the mic" when he actually is. He's terrible. I can't see how this can be disputed.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Anybody doubting Benoit needs to check out the promo he did in the Bonus Features section of the Royal Rumble 2003 DVD. Or the promo he did in the Special Features section of the Vegence 2002 DVD. Both of them very good.

[The Niggardly King 0]

"For my entire life, I've been denied - but I WILL not deny myself. I've torn ligaments, shattered bones, broken my neck, but those aren't the scars that feed my anger and fuel my rage. Keep your praise, your music videos, your cliches - they mean NOTHING. The pain, the anguish and the torture I go through was hell - and for my enemies... now it's your turn. I was born to hurt, and you will FEEL MY PAIN."

-Chris Benoit

 

Yup that really does suck

[razazteca 0]

Benoit & Shane > Orton & Flair

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Addressed to what:

 

 

The difference between Benoit and Orton is Benoit was never put in a position to cut promos. The fans know that's not why he's there. He's there to wrestle and to entertain the fans IN-RING.

 

Orton on the other hand, has been pushed to the position where he would invariably have to cut promos. Now considering those two vastly different positions Benoit and Orton are in, Orton's much worse than Benoit at promos.

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat and Randy "Macho Man" Savage put on a clinic that WM 17 could not pull off. The height of the I-C title was much greater than at WM 17 where it was the opening match. The best choice to compete with this match technically is Angle/Benoit and it's not even close.

Minor rebuttal: While Angle/Benoit was a pretty good match, Austin/Rock is just so much better than it and Steamboat/Savage(which did not suck, obviously, but I think it's kinda overrated). Of course, it's probably more of a matter of preference, but when I watch Austin/Rock, it feels like watching a perfectly executed play especially with the little things they did like Rock's reversal of the Million Dollar Dream and Austin's reaction to it which seemed like an ode to the first Austin/Bret match where Bret won with that very counter.

[Guest Redhawk]

Statement: Had Rob Van Dam been given the World Title during his hot streak of 2001, he'd still be the No. 1 guy in the company.

 

Statement: WWE would have been better off introducing the Goldberg character on a smaller scale, rather than immediately throwing him in there with The Rock and then right into the World title picture. Same goes for Scott Steiner being thrown right in with HHH.

[TheFranchise 0]

Statement: Had Rob Van Dam been given the World Title during his hot streak of 2001, he'd still be the No. 1 guy in the company.

 

Statement: WWE would have been better off introducing the Goldberg character on a smaller scale, rather than immediately throwing him in there with The Rock and then right into the World title picture. Same goes for Scott Steiner being thrown right in with HHH.

Rebuttal:

 

While Van Dam is unquestionable over and i think will be forever, he would have still played second fiddle to Triple H, then Lesnar.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Rebuttal: Scott Steiner was injured and had nothing left. Goldberg is a crybaby prima donna who has one good year to his record for his entire career. Neither guy should have even been hired.

 

STATEMENT: The Diva Search is Vince's worst idea for RAW since the Brawl For All.

[jester 0]

STATEMENT: The Diva Search is Vince's worst idea for RAW since the Brawl For All.

Agreed. Even during the Katie Vick BS, at least nobody got injured or arrested.

 

Or perhaps they should have.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Statement: WWE would have been better off introducing the Goldberg character on a smaller scale, rather than immediately throwing him in there with The Rock and then right into the World title picture. Same goes for Scott Steiner being thrown right in with HHH.

Rebuttal, sort of: While I can see the logic in that statement, I can also see the logic, and agree with more, that in order to get the most out of a new monster as soon as possible, you push him to the moon right out of the gate. While this does have the potential, which can be offset with great booking, of limiting what you can do with them after, say, a year or so, if you book well enough, you can use the spark of the monster to create several new players, so that by the time the monster starts to seem stale, you can offset that with one of the new main players you will have hopefully created in the proceeding year.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Goldberg was over enough and IIRC did good enough ratings-wise as champ to warrant a title-push from the get-go. Steiner could've used the buildup, and by buildup I mean "Let's give the fans a chance to see Scott botching moves on mid-carders before we unleash him on our ME guys".

[Promoter 0]

A few things to comment on here. Benoit could cut good promos, but it's the old school style promos and the wwe just did not want to push him that way. The sit down interviews. The backstage pretaped interviews Benoit comes off very good. Why they don't do more of that is beyond me. Maybe someone is afraid or something. Orton is okay on promos, but as someone stated for his push he is poor. Orton is being pushed as the future EVOLUTION of the sport. Let that sink in.

 

Goldberg's wwe situation is strange. Remember it was "reported" that Rock was the man who convinced Goldberg to have talks with the company. The Rock was the "in", so if this situation couldn't be rectified I believe they had to start with The Rock for his intro. Personally, I believe the wwe should have just made Goldberg appear in the Rock/Austin match at WM 19 and have one helluva WM moment. I also don't think Goldberg was really rushed to the title either. HBK in 2002 was a rush to the title. The problem with Goldberg was that the wwe could not have him plow through the roster because of the uncertainty of his loyalty. What would have happened if he went through everyone including Lesnar and left at Mania 20. The whole roster would look weak and the best guy would be gone. It was a no win situation for Goldberg and Vince and that is why I believe Goldberg never did get the vibe of truly going over guys like Triple H.

 

AlwaysPissedOff, I agree somewhat, but I was categorizing the matches. Austin/Rock was the main event, so I compared it to Hogan/Austin. I felt it would be unfair to compare Jericho/Regal's I-C title match to Steamboat/Savage, so I used Benoit/Angle which could have been seen as I-C level. Austin/Rock was a great match, but I think the true hook was the Austin turn. Steamboat/Savage was technically better, but Austin/Rock gives it a run for the money because of the storytelling.

 

Statement: Steve Austin turned heel at the wrong time(making it kind of a flop) and maybe it should have happened at Backlash 2000. I will give my reasons why later.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

You mean Backlash 2000 when he was injured and couldn't wrestle until the fall?

[Promoter 0]

Yep, that is correct. Okay, let me explain. WrestleMania 2000 actually had Austin/Rock as an option for a rematch where both would be face. If anyone remembers Austin and Rock were going toe to toe in popularity that even wwe acknowledged this in a poll on their website asking fans who was more popular. The wwe was also teaming Rock and Austin up as a tag team during the fall. All anyone had to do was watch WM 15 to see both men had strong a strong fanbase.

 

Now, the wwe had set up the triple threat with Rock/Austin/Triple H for Survivor Series. The wwe could have still used the "vehicular homicide" angle and have Rock go over Triple H for the title. Now remember the month before I believe Triple H defeated Austin because of the sledgehammer miscalculation.

 

Okay, you run Triple H to win the 2000 Rumble. They could still do the Foley program and end up with the fatal fourway. The Rock can go over again at Mania by a hair(although I would use Rock/Trips match for Mania instead). This would prompt Rock to get Linda to put someone by his side. Remember, Austin was out of action for about 5 months ago with questions on someone setting him up in the car incident. Triple H playing mind games and being the cerebral assassin gets into the mind of the rattlesnake and the finish of the match has Austin TURN on Rock. Triple H regains the title at Backlash and runs with the belt. We do not see Austin on raw or smackdown until he is ready to return. It is kind of like a cliff-hanger. So, his return is highly anticipated because fans would want to know WHY Austin did what he did. The Rock is actually framed by Triple H, but Austin can't see that and neither can the fans. I'm going off the belief that fans are generally more loyal to Austin than The Rock(as evident with what really happened since Austin's fans refused to boo him at first).

 

In the meantime, Triple H is tied up with Kurt Angle and loses his title and wife. That would help the love triangle angle. Survivor Series 2001 or Rumble 2001 Austin returns after one year and automatically gets the title shot because he was #1 contender at the event without ever legitimately losing the spot. Austin goes over Angle. Austin carries the strap into WM 17 against The Rock who has been framed. It is brought up why he turned on him the year previously and cost him the strap. The match goes down as it did, but this time Mcmahon now helps Austin. The next night on raw, Austin does his heel turn speech and proclaims that while he sat at home he saw Rock take over the company and saw that his fans were now Rock's fans. That Rock was getting movie deals and so on, while he was getting surgery and in pain. That he teamed up with Mcmahon to secure himself and his legacy and to ensure the banishment of The Rock(who gets fired after attacking Vince Mcmahon on raw). It was all a calculated plot motivated through jealousy of The Rock and Austin feeling his hey day coming to an end joined up with Vince Mcmahon to keep his position as #1.

 

This sets up Triple H in the same scenario where he was not in the know of this plan and he turns complete face instead of tweener which he was playing. Remember, I would have had Trips lose the title to Angle and also lose his wife. Probably would have blown that feud off with Trips going over at Rumble and moving onto Undertaker at WM 17 in a tweener role as fans would have a hard time trusting Trips as a face at first. Austin's heel turn would completely turn Trips.

 

So, now you have Austin's full blown heel turn happen instead of it coming out of nowhere(although it wasn't, but that's another topic). You have a big face in Triple H instead of nobody on his level which happened in 2001. Of course, maybe Trips still would have hurt himself, but the two man power trip match against the Canadian Chrisses wouldn't have happened.

[DCMaximo 0]

Statement: If they got rid of the the "winner gets a WrestleMania title shot" stip every year, the Royal Rumble would be far more interesting, as it would give a wider spectrum of possible winners

 

Statement 2: If the WWE had fired Tomko and used Sean O'Haire in the "Christian's Enforcer" role, it would have been better for everyone (bar Tomko, of course)

[King Cucaracha 0]

Statement: If they got rid of the the "winner gets a WrestleMania title shot" stip every year, the Royal Rumble would be far more interesting, as it would give a wider spectrum of possible winners

 

Statement 2: If the WWE had fired Tomko and used Sean O'Haire in the "Christian's Enforcer" role, it would have been better for everyone (bar Tomko, of course)

Rebuttal one: While it'd 'open up the field' so to speak, as far as potential winners go, the downside to this is the Rumble loses it's major selling point. Back in 88-91, the Rumble was a chance to see wrestlers in the ring that would never wrestle each other...a selling point on it's own. Now though, the Rumble really needs the number one contendership stip to make people care about it in the same way they do now. Currently, the Rumble gets comparably good buyrates because people WANT to see it to see who goes to Mania. Taking that away takes away a lot of it's appeal.

 

Rebuttal two: ...Ok, can't argue with that.

[Guest Brian]

Royal Rumble is strong as a drawing point because of that stip. Just because the WWE doesn't use it effectively, doesn't mean they should abandon it. Frankly, Royal Rumble is a great opportunity to take a young up and comer and give him life, even if he doesn't win. And if he does, it could be the first step towards a big push. The Royal rumble always can be used to open up multiple doors, and it's not always just about the winner. But that match is built around the stipulation, and it'd definately take away from it as a drawing point and probably would also affect the focus towards WrestleMania (not always meaning booking, but in terms of getting fans attentive toward it).

[Guest TheLastBoyscout]

Goldberg was over enough and IIRC did good enough ratings-wise as champ to warrant a title-push from the get-go. Steiner could've used the buildup, and by buildup I mean "Let's give the fans a chance to see Scott botching moves on mid-carders before we unleash him on our ME guys".

Exactly correct. I think the WWE needed to build Goldberg to the title by putting him over guys like Rock and Jericho, and they needed to milk Steiner for that quick buyrate.

[Guest JaimieOliver]

"For my entire life, I've been denied - but I WILL not deny myself. I've torn ligaments, shattered bones, broken my neck, but those aren't the scars that feed my anger and fuel my rage. Keep your praise, your music videos, your cliches - they mean NOTHING. The pain, the anguish and the torture I go through was hell - and for my enemies... now it's your turn. I was born to hurt, and you will FEEL MY PAIN."

-Chris Benoit

 

Yup that really does suck

Great on paper but it's all in the delivery.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

"For my entire life, I've been denied - but I WILL not deny myself. I've torn ligaments, shattered bones, broken my neck, but those aren't the scars that feed my anger and fuel my rage. Keep your praise, your music videos, your cliches - they mean NOTHING. The pain, the anguish and the torture I go through was hell - and for my enemies... now it's your turn. I was born to hurt, and you will FEEL MY PAIN."

-Chris Benoit

 

Yup that really does suck

Great on paper but it's all in the delivery.

Just as well the delivery was excellent then.

[Guest Anglesault]

Statement 2: If the WWE had fired Tomko and used Sean O'Haire in the "Christian's Enforcer" role, it would have been better for everyone (bar Tomko, of course)

I don't see how. O'Haire is almost as bad in the ring as Tomko (as he showed last year). I assume he's still playing the bodyguard who stands around and says nothing job that Tomko has when he's not wrestling correct? If so, how can one person do that better than any other?

[Guest Big Daddy V1]

Statement 2: If the WWE had fired Tomko and used Sean O'Haire in the "Christian's Enforcer" role, it would have been better for everyone (bar Tomko, of course)

I don't see how. O'Haire is almost as bad in the ring as Tomko (as he showed last year). I assume he's still playing the bodyguard who stands around and says nothing job that Tomko has when he's not wrestling correct? If so, how can one person do that better than any other?

Rebuttal: Is it me, or do you think they could find someone better to do this job? I mean, if he were healthy right now, make Test the bodyguard/problem solver. Both Christian and Tests worked together as the Un-Americans and Test works as a bodyguard. He's got the look, size and he can decntly wrestle. Let Christian do the talking and he's set.

[Guest Anglesault]

Statement 2: If the WWE had fired Tomko and used Sean O'Haire in the "Christian's Enforcer" role, it would have been better for everyone (bar Tomko, of course)

I don't see how. O'Haire is almost as bad in the ring as Tomko (as he showed last year). I assume he's still playing the bodyguard who stands around and says nothing job that Tomko has when he's not wrestling correct? If so, how can one person do that better than any other?

Rebuttal: Is it me, or do you think they could find someone better to do this job? I mean, if he were healthy right now, make Test the bodyguard/problem solver.

Is this a joke?

[Guest Big Daddy V1]

rebuttal: I declare O'Haire and Tomko as jokes when it comes to problem solver roles.

[Guest Anglesault]

Rebuttal: When you factor in his ring skills, mic skills, charisma, ability to get over (or lack their of in all categories) and general attitude, Test may be the worst wrestler in the entire company.

 

I just wouldn't give him above a D- in any single category. He's managed to get progressively worse in the ring and on the mic each year, and his constant TV time despite total indifference from the crowd over the last couple of years was getting to be so bad it was funny.

[Guest Big Daddy V1]

Rebuttal: When you factor in his ring skills, mic skills, charisma, ability to get over (or lack their of in all categories) and general attitude, Test may be the worst wrestler in the entire company.

 

I just wouldn't give him above a D- in any single category. He's managed to get progressively worse in the ring and on the mic each year, and his constant TV time despite total indifference from the crowd over the last couple of years was getting to be so bad it was funny.

rebuttal: ring skills, never said they were the best, I admit, they looked bad at times, but was able to make a match look decent and not blow everything. Mic Skills are terrible, you got that correct, such that someone does the talking for him, he just stands there and looks tough. Charisma seems bad as well as he never gets huge pops or jeers, but he doesn't have super storylines at all. (I mean, a everlasting fued with Steiner?) He did get over in my opinion, but he needed that little rub. As the bodygurad he'd get that Christian and Trish give him the small rub while he does his thing.

 

As for ratings, I'll go (in order): C+, D-, C-, and B-. I never saw him get worse, but you have to admit he wasn't facing great guys either (again, Steiner), so that really hampers him greatly.

[Guest Anglesault]

Rebuttal: When you factor in his ring skills, mic skills, charisma, ability to get over (or lack their of in all categories) and general attitude, Test may be the worst wrestler in the entire company.

 

I just wouldn't give him above a D- in any single category. He's managed to get progressively worse in the ring and on the mic each year, and his constant TV time despite total indifference from the crowd over the last couple of years was getting to be so bad it was funny.

rebuttal: ring skills, never said they were the best,

Quite possibly the worst. I haven't seen him in a *good* match in three and a half years.

 

My grades, BTW.

 

F, F, D-, F.

 

He did get over in my opinion,

 

The crowd strongly diasgrees with you.

 

As the bodygurad he'd get that Christian and Trish give him the small rub while he does his thing.

 

It just doesn't work. There's a reason he's Teflon Test. They can't get heat to stick to him. They do a good job of finding someone pretty over to stick with him/ run a program with, but he has the uncanny ability to kill their heat rather than gain any for himself.

[CanadianChick 0]

There is no way Tyson is better than Test. A least Test never tripped when he did his boot.

[Hoff 0]

Statement: Chris Jericho has lost all credibility after years of floundering in the midcard, and would no longer make a believable WWE champion.