Does Batista have staying power?

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

Batista sounds like a calm badass... because that's what he is! He approaches stuff thinking about it first instead of running blindly around killing people like every other hoss on the roster. He's a smart hoss. He's an over hoss. I think his popularity will stay for a damn good while after Wrestlemania 21. That crowd was screaming for Batista last night big time.

 

As for JBL's title reign... I'm starting to look at him more credible and credible every day. You see, his title reign isn't like Eddie's or Kurt's or Brock's or anyone like that. These days, people are paying to see him and pray to God he LOSES the title. Hell, even we want it. And whoever can do it, shall get the praise, the cheers, and a complementary basket of fruit from the smarks. This is the "Honky Tonk" method. Let the guy hold the belt for a while by any means necessary, have people watch the show and pay tickets to see him and see if he'll lose the title, and make a star out of whoever beats him for it.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

You see, his title reign isn't like Eddie's or Kurt's or Brock's or anyone like that. These days, people are paying to see him and pray to God he LOSES the title. Hell, even we want it. And whoever can do it, shall get the praise, the cheers, and a complementary basket of fruit from the smarks. This is the "Honky Tonk" method. Let the guy hold the belt for a while by any means necessary, have people watch the show and pay tickets to see him and see if he'll lose the title, and make a star out of whoever beats him for it.

It sure isn't like Eddie, Kurt or Brock's reign. Fans actually cared about the title when those three had it. At least with those three, you could count on both a really good match and, nine times out of ten, a clean finish. With JBL, chances are you'll get a decent match, but you're assured of a screwjob finish. How can any title have credibility with a neverending stream of screwjob finishes ? At least when Honky had the IC Title, he did a bunch of non-title matches that had clean finishes in order to set up the screwjobs. We don't even get that with JBL.

 

As for people paying to see JBL lose, while that may be true, not many people have been paying to see him lose, at least for the majority of his reign. House show attendance with JBL on top sank to some horrible levels over the fall, and, while they've begun to pick up somewhat recently, that's more down to the markets they're in, rather than JBL being any kind of a draw.

 

And the notion of someone being made a star by beating JBL, that's a joke. You get made a star by beating one, and JBL is no star. Stars don't run off viewers when they're the focal point of television. JBL did that for October to December, and probably is still doing that now.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

Alright, maybe I was streching it a little when i said whoever could beat JBL would become a star.... but I'll still take him as champion over HHH any day.

[Black Lushus 0]

my only question is, if the buy rates, # of viewers, revenue, etc. are so bad because of JBL and HHH, why are they still the current focal points of the shows? I mean we all know Vince McMahon is insane, but he's not stupid...

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

my only question is, if the buy rates, # of viewers, revenue, etc. are so bad because of JBL and HHH, why are they still the current focal points of the shows? I mean we all know Vince McMahon is insane, but he's not stupid...

WWE is still making a profit. Business might be down across the board, for the greater part, but WWE is still making tons of money, so Vince and co probably don't care; they're still making money, so, from their position, they have no need to worry.

 

As for why they don't change the titles, well, we all know the deal on Raw. With Smackdown, Vince loves the JBL character, on every level, so he isn't going to pull the plug on it.

[strummer 0]

HTQ, SD ratings have increased significantly in the past month or so, have you seen the numbers, whose responsible for the increase? I would guess it would either be JBL, Angle or Big Show as the show as centered around those 3 since the SD after Survivor Series.

[natey2k4 0]

I'll be cheering for Batista, Jericho, Benoit, Christian, Eddie, Haas, Mysterio and Hassan to do well in the rumble. Hassan more just because his character is decent...

 

Batista will probably win, unless they do let Cena win.

[jester 0]

Batista sounds like a calm badass... because that's what he is!

Exactly. Batista will remain over if they continue to book him the same way.

 

Step 1: Heel blathers on and on

 

Step 2: Batista makes a subtle threat towards the heel that makes him sound cold and badass.

 

Step 3: Repeat step 2 for awhile until the fans are rabid for a Batista ass-kicking of heel.

 

Step 4: Batista kicks heel's ass.

 

That's all they have to do. Think about heel Edge right now. Whining about being screwed out of title shots. Now imagine Batista responding to an Edge promo the same way he treats HHH. It would work.

 

If you want to totally destroy Batista:

 

1. As Brian says, book him like Brock. For the millionth time, Undertaker did not put over Brock. Brock jobbed in a HANDICAP match to Taker, for crying out loud.

 

2. Turn Batista into a crowd-sucking up gosh-gee-willickers face. "Come on everyone! Boo the evil foreigners! USA! USA! Your hometown sports team is really cool!"

 

3. Have him go against HHH for the belt and fail, turning him into loser #489 who can't get the job done against HHH.

[humongous2002 0]

As long as they keep Batista the way he is w/o making any changes then I could see Dave as a main eventer with staying power, if it's not broken don't fix it.

HTQ, SD ratings have increased significantly in the past month or so, have you seen the numbers, whose responsible for the increase? I would guess it would either be JBL, Angle or Big Show as the show as centered around those 3 since the SD after Survivor Series

Your guess is wrong, the truth is that there's nothing else watchable on thursday, it's been proven time after time that JBL is bombing in the ratings.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I don't think anyone can say that Batista isn't the one. We can speculate, but to proclaim it like it's gospel and etched in stone seems like conditioned negativity. And that is understandable, considering TV for the last four years or so.

 

You're willing to say Batista is comparable to Hogan and Austin?

 

Jesus fucking christ, people are completely forgetting the purpose of this thread. The question was asked "Does Batista have staying power", I (and others) answered NO, and gave reasons. If you want to discuss those reasons, then good - this is a discussion board, that's the point. Bitching because people are providing legitimate answers that you don't like to the question made in the initial post is pseudo-flaming. I CAN say whatever the fuck I want to say on this board, and as long as it's within the rules of this forum it will be said here. You don't have to agree with it, nor does anyone else. But it'd probably be wise to have an open-mind to it, because I have disgusting accuracy with things like this.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

To those who have pointed out Batista's weaknesses (i.e. HTQ, RRRudo, etc.). Not arguing with you guys about them, but do you still think they should or shouldn't push him to the title at WMXXI?

Of course. It was said in this thread, and I said it another similar thread, the WWE has something hot, they have nothing else as hot, so they should go along with it. BUT they shouldn't invest a ton into his title reign because of the reasons I listed.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Every time I expect there to be a misstep in the current Batista push, they keep it going in the most ideal way possible with little deviation (ie. beating the tag champs last night in less than two minutes; something that wasn't preferable but necessary since they're the only heel tandem on Raw that comes to mind). Just keep him cool and it's all good. Make it so whenever he raises his voice it makes his opponent shit themselves, since it's so rare. As someone said earlier, make him the thinking man's hoss. Instead of "BATISTA SMASH" give us "that wasn't cool man, slow your roll." S'long as they can keep up that sort of character, they can have him make a good run for however long WWE feels they have left with him.

 

What truly strikes me as important is that the Rumble happens to come at the most critical point of his current fan acceptance. Different characters I know, but at the moment Batista is at the point where they screwed up with Eugene. Crowd's behind him, pops for backstage appearances, in-ring action, and peripheral things (mentions by others, being shown walking to the ring, etc.), but what was done with Eugene was that it was put into overdrive and he was suddenly the focus of everything seemingly, with merchandise out the ass. The crowd at SummerSlam shows what will happen if they do this with Batista. Keep it simple, and keep him cool. He doesn't strike me as a guy who does stuff for the crowd, but rather because he said he'd do it. Don't give him a little signal to the crowd that he's about to execute his finisher, don't have him look around for approval after hitting big moves, just have him wrestle in his own world and after victories do like last night. Get up on the corners and flex a bit, show that you did what you said you would, but not in a manner that's saying "take pictures of me!" like Orton or someone else.

 

If nothing else, he sold me on his relaxed, yet ass-kicking personality last night when you could hear him say "that's gotta hurt" while backing up the ramp after his match.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

These are the average ratings for Smackdown from July to December of 2004:

 

July Average: 3.18

August Average: 3.02

September Average: 2.84

October Average: 3.37

November Average: 3.25

December Average: 3.23

 

The three January episodes have an average rating of 3.6. Assuming the January 27th edition does a 3.5, the average rating for January would be a 3.57.

 

It should also be noted that the worst rating for a non-holiday edition of Smackdown, a 2.5, was in September of last year.

 

The ratings for this month so far are consistent, just as they were in December. However, while they are, on the whole, up from the last six months of last year, they aren't up a great deal from the last three months of 2004. In addition to that, as was pointed out in another thread, from October to December, JBL had a significant negative effect on viewership whenever he was the focal point of a match or angle, and it's hard to see how that would have changed much in the last month or so.

[Art Sandusky 0]

When's the next batch of "this person lost viewers, this person gained them" stats coming out?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Did someone say cool?

 

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

What happened in October to get that gain? Tough Enough??

[Art Sandusky 0]

Oh, you know what I meant.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

He will be fine for a few months. I am not suggesting that he is going to be on top for years to come. But right now he is a breath of fresh air in a sea of crap booking.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

What happened in October to get that gain? Tough Enough??

Supposedly, TE gained a significant # of viewers (which probably means were in store for another edition somewhere down the line).

[Guest Reservoir_Kitty]

If John Cena won the Rumble, I'd explode.

 

Anyway, on to my favorite topic, Batista: As long as he doesn't get the Orton face turn of suck, he will be very fine in the upcoming months. He's got to stick to the path his character is taking now in order to not become stale and just more fodder for the HHH ego machine (which, let's face it, will happen anyway). He's definitely come a long way from Deacon Batista. (poor guy, that was a shit gimmick)

 

Batista is really one of the only wrestlers that makes me tune into RAW every Monday. I don't even have that on Smackdown anymore. I'm totally gunning for big Dave to win the Rumble and get away from Evolution. He doesn't need them as a safety net anymore, he's fine talking in front of the camera (unlike Orton, yargh), he's very charismatic, looks great in a suit, and while his moveset is semi-generic and very hoss, it's also believable. What the hell do you expect a guy his size to do, a moonsault?

 

We all know what happens there.

[Guest Astro]

You see, his title reign isn't like Eddie's or Kurt's or Brock's or anyone like that.  These days, people are paying to see him and pray to God he LOSES the title.  Hell, even we want it.  And whoever can do it, shall get the praise, the cheers, and a complementary basket of fruit from the smarks.  This is the "Honky Tonk" method.  Let the guy hold the belt for a while by any means necessary, have people watch the show and pay tickets to see him and see if he'll lose the title, and make a star out of whoever beats him for it.

It sure isn't like Eddie, Kurt or Brock's reign. Fans actually cared about the title when those three had it. At least with those three, you could count on both a really good match and, nine times out of ten, a clean finish. With JBL, chances are you'll get a decent match, but you're assured of a screwjob finish. How can any title have credibility with a neverending stream of screwjob finishes ? At least when Honky had the IC Title, he did a bunch of non-title matches that had clean finishes in order to set up the screwjobs. We don't even get that with JBL.

 

He's been jobbing on House shows and dark matches to Undertaker tons over the last 6 months.... HTM didn't job on TV either

[bob_barron 0]

Your guess is wrong, the truth is that there's nothing else watchable on thursday

Yes because no one is watching that show CSI

[humongous2002 0]

Not a CSI fan that's why I didn't know that it was on Thursdays.

[SuperJerk 0]

Batista sounds like a calm badass... because that's what he is!

Exactly. Batista will remain over if they continue to book him the same way.

 

Step 1: Heel blathers on and on

 

Step 2: Batista makes a subtle threat towards the heel that makes him sound cold and badass.

 

Step 3: Repeat step 2 for awhile until the fans are rabid for a Batista ass-kicking of heel.

 

Step 4: Batista kicks heel's ass.

 

That's all they have to do. Think about heel Edge right now. Whining about being screwed out of title shots. Now imagine Batista responding to an Edge promo the same way he treats HHH. It would work.

 

If you want to totally destroy Batista:

 

1. As Brian says, book him like Brock. For the millionth time, Undertaker did not put over Brock. Brock jobbed in a HANDICAP match to Taker, for crying out loud.

 

2. Turn Batista into a crowd-sucking up gosh-gee-willickers face. "Come on everyone! Boo the evil foreigners! USA! USA! Your hometown sports team is really cool!"

 

3. Have him go against HHH for the belt and fail, turning him into loser #489 who can't get the job done against HHH.

Vince, hire this man.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out on Batista.

 

The problem is that HHH is so good at what he does, and at the same time fans are so tired of him, that his opponent always ends up looking like the next big thing. People were jumping on the Randy Orton bandwagon in masses a few months ago, and a few months before that they were jumping on the Shelton Benjamin bandwagon as well. Both guys are really good, but when they moved away from working with HHH they lost their heat and it became obvious that they had a long way to go before they could stay incredibly over as faces without HHH as a crutch. Their questionable booking didn't help, but it still wasn't the place or time for either of them yet, especially as babyfaces.

 

Now Batista is the guy everyone is rallying behind. This one could really go either way at this point. I don't think that you can really compare him to Brock Lesnar, because Batista isn't going to have The Undertaker, The Rock, Kurt Angle and Hulk Hogan to put him over in rapid succession and MAKE the fans respect him as the future of the WWE.

 

On the other hand though, Batista has great natural charsima that seems like an extension of himself rather than an act, and the character he plays seems to simply be Dave Batista. That's usually the difference between a guy the fans can really connect with, and a guy like Randy Orton who seems to be playing a character. If the writers keep doing this good of a job with Batista, he'll be insanely over by the time Wrestlemania rolls around and he'll probably go over HHH. Like all great main eventers over the past 10 years, the fans chose Batista instead of WWE, and aside from John Cena that hasn't been the case for many breakout stars in the last year or two.

 

But then what? Once Batista has defeated HHH, what is there possibly left for him to do that won't cause him to lose steam. A fued with a heel Randy Orton would be a great start, but HHH will always be looming around as the true center of attention, even if he doesn't have the title. It would almost be better if Batista went into Wrestlemania as a member of Evolution, won the title and came out of Wrestlemania and stayed in the group. It's more fun to cheer a heel than a face anyway and it's good reverse psychology from the WWE when the fans are tiring of cheering for whoever it is that is being shoved down their throats.

 

I don't know how good of an actual face Batista will play either. He's going to have to get used to taking most of the offense for a 15 minute match, and a monster can't stay over if he's being beaten down for lengthy periods of time. I don't know if he can cut a money making promo, especially not one that is pandering to the fans like most faces cut. If the flagpole thing was any indication last night, I could see the wheels in motion for a lame face turn too. Batista can't very well squash all of the heels in the company either, so it's pretty much a catch 22.

 

The original plan was to have Randy Orton win the title and go to Smackdown for John Cena after Mania, so maybe Batista would head to Smackdown and be thrust into some fresh feuds with JBL, The Big Show, Brock Lesnar, The Undertaker and Kurt Angle. That could be the best idea of any right now, but I guess we'll just have to see how it plays out.

 

My best guess is that Batista beats HHH, stays on Raw and the "now what?" phenomenom kicks in. He is made into a star, but has nothing to do and just blends in with the rest of the dull main eventers on Raw.

[NoCalMike 0]

It will be interesting to see how the crowd reacts to Batista following his first high profile loss on PPV. Be it a title match or not. Also, the problem with WWE these days regarding the belt, is that they aren't building people up with the fan support before they get the belt. They are just handpicking who they want as champion and just hoping the fans will come around after 6 months. That isn't a recipe for success.

[Celtic Jobber 0]

I think Batista has the potential to be HUGE, I mean huge as in another Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin.

 

IMO, he's far more charismatic than Brock or even Orton could ever hope to be, and for a big guy he's not bad in the ring.

 

But the question is, will WWE be able to capitalize on this potential?

[NoCalMike 0]

I think Batista has the potential to be HUGE, I mean huge as in another Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin.

 

IMO, he's far more charismatic than Brock or even Orton could ever hope to be, and for a big guy he's not bad in the ring.

 

But the question is, will WWE be able to capitalize on this potential?

Actually, I am fully prepared to be flamed and laughed right out of the WWE forum for saying this, but I think Albert was better in the ring then Batista and overall, not that bad for a hoss. I mean, he wasn't charasmatic, and probably couldn't cut a promo to save his life, but his in-ring work to me was a lot better then Batista. Batista's promos right now as already mentioned are basically one-liners to playoff of HHH's rants and lectures. I don't get where people think he has developed anything more then that as far as promos/mic work go.

 

Oh and "another Hogan or Austin"

[King Cucaracha 0]

People still call Orton's push a 'mega-push'? Wow. You would have thought after he got the HHH treatment and got a ONE MONTH reign with the World Title, people would realise that the 'push' sucked and Orton got cut off at the knees by being turned face, hotshotted the belt and then fed to HHH. Especially considering people still bring up RVD, Booker etc. Only difference here is that Orton got a short time with the belt.

 

Batista? If they play him like a modern-day Goldberg (hiding his weaknesses, but obviously not squashing the entire roster) or if they give him the Austin-style tweener role, he has a good chance of making it. That just need to find that one selling point that'll put him over the top. Although RRR makes some good points, with the right booking, those can be disguised to a decent level. He's capable in promos, if not excellent. Capable in the ring, if not on the levels of Benoits, Jerichos and such. He can succeed. They just need to be careful.

 

And keep him from getting the HHH treatment.

 

 

Then again, who knows. Remember the many valid reasons against Brock getting a push back in the day? He proved people wrong. So, I'll hold my judgement.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

You see, his title reign isn't like Eddie's or Kurt's or Brock's or anyone like that.  These days, people are paying to see him and pray to God he LOSES the title.  Hell, even we want it.  And whoever can do it, shall get the praise, the cheers, and a complementary basket of fruit from the smarks.  This is the "Honky Tonk" method.  Let the guy hold the belt for a while by any means necessary, have people watch the show and pay tickets to see him and see if he'll lose the title, and make a star out of whoever beats him for it.

It sure isn't like Eddie, Kurt or Brock's reign. Fans actually cared about the title when those three had it. At least with those three, you could count on both a really good match and, nine times out of ten, a clean finish. With JBL, chances are you'll get a decent match, but you're assured of a screwjob finish. How can any title have credibility with a neverending stream of screwjob finishes ? At least when Honky had the IC Title, he did a bunch of non-title matches that had clean finishes in order to set up the screwjobs. We don't even get that with JBL.

 

He's been jobbing on House shows and dark matches to Undertaker tons over the last 6 months.... HTM didn't job on TV either

JBL's jobs to Undi are just to end tv tapings on a 'high' note. Other than that, they're meaningless. HTM's house show jobs at least led to return title matches at that arena, and meant something to the local market.