So was the Rumble finish botched or not?

[JoeDirt 0]

This was posted on Gamefaqs...thoughts?

 

"I've been looking around a little bit, and I've only seen a few people suggest that the finish was botched, but only in speculative statements with no evidence to back it up. I checked a few wrestling news sites, and no one seems to have noticed the things that I did. I even googled some key terms and phrases that would have to appear in any description of what happened and came up with absolutely nothing about last night, which I suppose means that these observations have yet to be noted anywhere on the Internet.

 

I was working all night and just got home a few hours ago and watched the Rumble. I can't be the only one who taped it. After you read this, go take another look. You'll see and hear exactly what I'm talking about.

 

Here's what happened.

 

When I saw Batista & Cena hit the floor virtually simultaneously, I thought what pretty much everyone else did. "It's Bret Hart & Lex Luger all over again. Why?" But in the moments that immediately followed, something just didn't seem right. I rewound the tape and looked at it again.

 

As they moved towards the ropes Batista's hands were still up by Cena's waist in a ready-to-powerbomb position. As Cena began get tossed over the ropes Batista was leaning back a bit and Cena's weight tipped Batista backwards over the op rope as well. Batista's hands shot down immediately, desperately reaching for a rope to grab onto. The top rope wasn't there to grab because Cena was still hanging on it when he hit the apron on his way to the floor, and it was pulled down way out of reach. I began to suspect that maybe Batista was supposed to have hung on.

 

I let the rest of the scene play out. After they hit the floor there was an awkward hesitation on the part of the officials. Jack Doan motions that Cena hit first, and raises Batista's hand in victory. Now, if this was all planned, the SmackDown refs would have immediately raised Cena's hand. They did just the opposite.

 

Jimmy Corderas & Charles Robinson backed off, pointed at Cena, and agreed with the RAW official. "He hit first" Corderas said while pointing at Cena and nodding in agreement. Now I was positive that Batista was never supposed to hit the floor, but it gets even better.

 

Both of Jack Doan's hands go to his left ear, as he is listening very closely to what someone(most likely an irate Vince McMahon) is saying in his ear-piece. He then returns to raising Batista's hand, while moving closer to Corderas to deliver the message. "Raise his hand."

 

Jack Doan (RAW ref), while declaring Batista the winner, told Jimmy Corderas (SD! ref) to raise Cena's hand in victory as well. This simply wouldn't be happening if everything was going according to plan. Immediately, Corderas & Robinson, who just seconds earlier were agreeing that Cena hit the floor first and that Batista won the match, pulled a 180 and now declared Cena victorious. If I wasn't sure before, everything just became crystal clear.

 

They couldn't let on that the finish of the Royal Rumble was just botched, so they switched gears on the fly to cover it up and played out the "refs siding with their respective brand's wrestler" angle. Then Vince himself (sans entrance theme) comes down the aisle looking very pissed off, at least some of which has to be legitimate frustration over the botched finish. Vince's appearance also serves to make the cover-up look more "non-cover-uppy", as it is the sort of "surprise" that wrestling fans have come to expect in planned situations that involve disputes between referees over who the winner of a match is. But we already know, thanks to the SD! refs contradicting themselves after Jack Doan is clearly seen receiving a message in his ear-microphone and clearly heard telling them to "Raise his hand", that this is most certainly not a planned situation.

 

I have no doubt that only minutes prior to all of this, Vince had absolutely no plans to appear on camera at the Royal Rumble. Then comes another moment of hilarity; everyone noticed this one. Vince gets in the ring, apparently breaks his ankle within a second or two, and then just sits there. I'm loving all of this. I love it when something has to be ad-libbed on the spot. Usually it's something much simpler, like the top rope breaking in the middle of a match and the wrestlers having to improvise, but this is on a much grander scale. This is the once-a-year Royal Rumble match; the beginning of the lead-up to WrestleMania, and they don't want to let on that they ****ed up the finish.

 

Everyone has that look in their eyes like they don't know what they're going to do next any more than the onlooking fans do. Like I said, I'm loving this. Both Batista & Cena take turns playing to the crowd, raising their arms in victory. Then Batista grabs Cena and tosses him over the top rope. Cena comes back in and tosses Batista over the top rope. They've jockeyed for crowd support long enough; a decision has to be made.

 

At this point Vince really only had two good options: go with the botch and declare a "Batista Vs. Triple H, Cena Vs. JBL double-main-event" for WrestleMania, or restart the end of the Rumble and let Batista get the win like he was supposed to; void of the controversy of a double-elimination finish. He chose the latter.

 

Overall, that was maybe the most complicated botch-recovery situations I've ever seen, especially since it was on a stage as grand as the finish of the annual Rumble Match. It was definitely more ****ed up than the 2000 Rumble finish botch, because The Rock at least held on to the rope and not only did they not show the replay of both of his feet hitting the floor before Big Show fell, they actually used to footage in an angle leading up to WM16. (I don't care what anyone says; Big Show won the 2000 Royal Rumble)

 

I found the whole situation to be fascinating. When I thought the double-elimination was planned, I was disappointed. Once I realized that things weren't going according to plan, I couldn't wait to see what would happen next. I was thoroughly entertained.

 

Your thoughts?"

 

--Interesting piece. Another thing pointing to a restart not being planned was that Cena and Batista seemed a little lost when they restarted. Batista immediately put Cena in a powerbomb position and Cena didn't go along with it, instead punching Batista. He then runs into a spinebuster and gets tossed, and it's over. Now Meltzer has said that the finish was rushed...but no major source has said yet that the finish was BOTCHED.

[NoCalMike 0]

I was thinking the finish was botched merely for the fact that after Vince orders the match to be re-started, it ends up finishing under 30 seconds later. I mean that is pretty darn anti-climatic to BE PLANNED. Hype up the RESTART and then it finishes 10 seconds later? Come on.....

[spman 0]

According to Meltzer and PWI, Batista and Cena were supposed to go for longer before the finish, but they were pressed for time so they just booked the ending on the fly.

[Nighthawk 0]

Show me video of Vince breaking his ankle.

[JoeDirt 0]

Show me video of Vince breaking his ankle.

[spman 0]

[slimm44 0]

It's a good theory, there were reports that the show was going longer than planned.

 

I did see the refs point and you could hear them say Cena hit first, then something went off and there was a dispute. Before Batista and Cena threw each other over, one of the refs yelled to restart the match, which is why I think Batista threw over Cena and the ref raised his hands. Then when Cena got back in the ring, and threw Batista over the ref said it didnt count.

 

It did seem wierd that they would do two 'disputed battle royal' angles in two months.

[1234-5678 0]

Show me video of Vince breaking his ankle.

That is never ever going to get old.

[Guest rawmvp]

This may have been the longest running time for any three-hour PPV ever, since most PPV's end at approximately 10:44 Eastern time. This show ended at exactly 10:57 Eastern Time. One more minute and they would've literally been booted off the air. That's why the ending was so rushed, and why Vince probably injured himself, who was well aware of the show running VERY late.

[Slickster 0]

I think he blew out his knee, actually.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Batistas reaction makes it.

[evilhomer 0]

I was thinking the finish was botched merely for the fact that after Vince orders the match to be re-started, it ends up finishing under 30 seconds later.  I mean that is pretty darn anti-climatic to BE PLANNED.  Hype up the RESTART and then it finishes 10 seconds later?  Come on.....

If the restart was planned, it certainly didn't go as it was laid out to be. They were pressed for time and had to come up with a one minute match on the spot.

 

They could have planned the double elimination to make Cena look strong and build up his case to get the WM title shot.

 

 

The confusion of the refs is the only thing that makes me think this wasn't planned. They really looked like they didn't know what to do. There's a pretty standard formula that always gets followed on a double victory/loss and instead of following it they waited for instructions.

 

Show me video of Vince breaking his ankle.

 

It looked more like he blew out his knee. Check page 18 of the Rumble thread (edit: or three posts up)

[UZI Suicide 0]

I think it was planned just because of the fact that it's 10 years after the Bret-Luger one, so they may have been paying homage to that. Plus the whole thing where Batista threw Cena out, and then Cena came back and threw Batista out while the refs were arguing seemed planned.

[Nighthawk 0]

Show me video of Vince breaking his ankle.

...

That is never ever going to get old.

I agree. I can't really tell exactly what happened to him or why. But yeah. That looks too big for them to edit out. I'll get the dvd.

[NoCalMike 0]

watching the clip, look at the front row of the people with their backs to the camera. They are all just standing there, except for one jackass jumping up and down to cheer for Vince.

[Guest Ransome]

I think it was planned just because of the fact that it's 10 years after the Bret-Luger one, so they may have been paying homage to that. Plus the whole thing where Batista threw Cena out, and then Cena came back and threw Batista out while the refs were arguing seemed planned.

That was Royal Rumble 1994. This is 2005. 11 years.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Poor Vince.

[UZI Suicide 0]

I think it was planned just because of the fact that it's 10 years after the Bret-Luger one, so they may have been paying homage to that. Plus the whole thing where Batista threw Cena out, and then Cena came back and threw Batista out while the refs were arguing seemed planned.

That was Royal Rumble 1994. This is 2005. 11 years.

Oh, damn.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Pretty sure Batista hit first and actually lost the match. If this really went down the way it was supposed to the camera wouldn't have risked viewing the shot of the double elimination. They would have panned away from having the risk of showing someone clearly losing. This would indicate that the finish was indeed bothched.

 

We see it all the time with hits the ring. The camera always pans away on impact so as not to show how bad a lot of the wreslers' strikes are. Take Benoit vs Michaels for instance. When Michaels superkicked Benoit in the face the camera doesn't show the direct impact. However when they realise what a great strike it is they will show it afterwards on a replay. If they're this careful with this scenario (anyone with a brain knew that Benoit would eat Michaels' superkick before getting hit with it) than you'd better believe they'd be more careful with a Royal Rumble ending. Yet they weren't.

[bob_barron 0]

Everywhere I read said that the finish wasn't botched. I just don't think it was supposed to be obvious that Big Dave hit first

[Guest The Shadow Behind You]

The only botch was Batistia landing clearly first. Usually they can get an angle to show how they each hit, The 1994 rumble never had a "direct" shot and were on corner shots, hence how it was so easily maksed. The recent Edge/Benoit double finish was close enough to be replayed.

 

But Batistia landed completely almost a good 2 seconds ahead of Cena...to make matters worst; Cena leg landed on Batistia's back. So not even actually hitting the floor.

 

I think this will be one of this never ending debates that we'll still be arguing in years to come if this was a botch or not unless one of the involved particpates (Vince, Cena, Batistia and the refs and the crew) spills.

[Precious Roy 0]

It wasn't that obvious, I had to watch it a few times to be 100% sure. Batista did hit first, but the SD refs audibly called Cena hitting first despite having the best view and being supposed experts at this shit. That doesn't strike anyone else as odd? It's possible that all of this is just smart booking. They know the mathematical odds of two guys hitting at the same exact time is slim, they can't welch out of showing it on camera, they've run this finish before and know there will be controversy, so why not book another layer of conspiracy on top of it just to fuck with people's heads? They obviously want a controversy to exist as justification for John Cena getting a title match at Mania and tried to put both men over as winners.

 

It would have been more effective if they'd had another couple minutes to tease the actual finish, but they still have the footage of Batista hitting first so it worked out.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

Now all we need is a clip of Paul London DYING FOR OUR SINS.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

Sorry for two posts in a row.... but how did anyone not notice rawmvp just posted? I wanna know what happened with him and the russian girl.

[DangerousDamon 0]

 

There you go Muggy.

[iliketurtles 0]

Considering they were moving so fast, it was hard to see who hit first until slow mo, but Batista definately hit first so techincally Cena should of won.

 

When the match was over and they almost immediately raised Batista's hand, I figured that would be the finish. Batista going over the top rope really doesn't look planned at all, or they didn't time it right or something. Looks in incredibly odd looking.

 

And the fact EVERYTHING weird that happened after that like Vince blowing his knee out by trying to enter the ring (making Nash's quad tear look like a heroic injury), having the match restarted to have it go nearly 30 more seconds...weird stuff.

 

It would be intresting to see if they do anything with it tonight.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

 

There you go Muggy.

JESUS... I hope they don't push him as the next Foley (big ass bumptaker). I don't think he can take that much over time.

[Guest Trivia247]

Is there an Injury report up for Royal Rumble?

[Guest Trivia247]

 

There you go Muggy.

JESUS... I hope they don't push him as the next Foley (big ass bumptaker). I don't think he can take that much over time.

probably be more like Jeff Hardy than foley

[Slickster 0]

Is there an Injury report up for Royal Rumble?

Only Vince was injured; London's stretcher job was a work.