Orton's RAW promo

[jester 0]

I started to get into Batista when he started to pay mind games with HHH...and win. Nobody has been allowed to do that in years. It had nothing to do with his clothes.

 

Remember when he insisted that HHH pay off the $100 bet, and then said he was kidding?

[DMann2003 0]

I was with Batista ever since I saw him live at Badd Blood last year, the way he played with the crowd was great. I coined the term "the Cult of Batista", but that didn't get over.

 

Some guys don't have to be great workers to click with fans (Hogan, Sid in 91/96 anyone?). Bottom line, if it'll make WWE money, push him and don't half ass it.

[AndrewTS 0]

But the fact is what I said is completely true anyway. NO ONE here(okay, maybe like 2 people) liked Batista and the nhe shows up at Mania 20 wearing a nice suit and sunglasses and for days 500 posts were popping up with "OMG PIMPTISTA!" in it. He got over with the smart crowd by wearing a suit. Now your dumbass can try and deny that fact, but everyone here knows that it's true.

 

I thought you said the entire IWC? Now it's just certain posters on this board?

 

I'll agree that was about the time that anyone on this board really cared about him, but in the subsequent weeks after Mania, he was getting a chance to shine, and--pay attention to this part--he was winning over the crowds and getting over on his own. He was starting to get bigger reactions without a major push than Orton had been getting for most of his time getting pushed.

 

He looked dangerous. He looked like a believable future star. Orton still looks like a goofy-looking frat boy.

 

Furthermore, by not quoting the rest of my post you left out the part where I was the first person in this thread to put more than "Orton needs to win" as reason as to why a win would help him and since my post the rest of the Orton should win supporters have been using wha I said as their points as well. Now this isn't because I discovered some great secret or anything, these were all very obvious points, I was just the first to point them out in this thread. I see you took a piece of it as well with your "this is wh yOrton's reign sucked" line. Guess you aren't adding anything significant to this thread either....

 

You mean this?

 

And for those that keep saying Orton was given the "god" push and never got over, that is complete bullshit.

 

Strawman argument. We're saying he's getting midcard reactions when he should be getting more. Which is what I already said.

 

When he was in Evolution with the IC title he DID get over. He was so over that when he faced Benoit for the title in Canada the fans were pulling for Orton instead of their fellow Canadian.

 

So when he was getting heavily pushed in Evolution and given the IC title he was getting heat? I should hope so. What does this have to do with today?

 

The WWE bothced his push by not only turning him face the very next night,

 

Didn't he want to be face and fought bitterly to stay face recently? Wasn't he turned face because *he was getting face reactions*?

 

but then they jobbed him out to HHH at the very next ppv and then for months just kept making him H's bitch.

 

Anti-smark Orton fans blaming HHH = delicious.

 

The return to his heel ways and a win over Taker at Mania could get him right back to where he should be and help push him beyond that.

 

Yeah--there's a solid argument. Even if the premises weren't horseshit, the conclusion doesn't follow from it.

 

Anyway, not that I'm done with the guy who is obviously mad because I pointed out that he picks his favorite wrestlers based on their attire

 

Nope. Batista isn't even on my WWE top 20 list. He's a guy I support only because of the reactions he's getting, not because I like his matches. Besides, you've admitted you like Orton only because "the IWC" hates him. In comparison, "I like him because of his suit" isn't so childish.

[Exslade ZX 0]

Strawman argument. We're saying he's getting midcard reactions when he should be getting more. Which is what I already said.

Actually..and don't quote me on this, because it might not have been you, but 'people' were saying that only some girls in the audience were cheering for him. And that's it. And to my knowledge thats not 'a midcard reaction'.

 

Some guys don't have to be great workers to click with fans (Hogan, Sid in 91/96 anyone?). Bottom line, if it'll make WWE money, push him and don't half ass it.

So basically, you're saying, push Orton? Orton has, and is still making money for WWE. Like a few said in this thread about when they went to house/live shows when he was still getting big reactions, everyone and their brother had a Legend Killer shirt. Even now, his Randy Wear is selling like crazy. (Which even amazes me >_>). So, he's making the WWE money. And well, he doesn't have to be a great worker to connect with the fans...so, push Orton.

 

Which is what they may...do (or not if he really is injured), and they 'wont half ass it' by putting him over Taker. That may actually be what he needs to springboard him. I mean, if he does break the streak. He can go back to the Orton that got over. Although it may get annoying, he could pretty much brag about it every week, and spit in everyone's face (although not literally this time >_>) But I guess we'll just have to wait and see before we should be complaining..

[AndrewTS 0]

Strawman argument. We're saying he's getting midcard reactions when he should be getting more. Which is what I already said.

Actually..and don't quote me on this, because it might not have been you, but 'people' were saying that only some girls in the audience were cheering for him. And that's it. And to my knowledge thats not 'a midcard reaction'.

One person said that. For some reason you agreed with it. But time and time again I've heard people comment that Randy's getting midcard heat, not "zero reaction" (like he *was* getting until perhaps as late as just before he won the IC title).

 

I honestly can't tell how much of the crowd cheering for him is male versus female, but a midcard reaction is the very most that he's getting right now. I'm not trying to shortchange him. However, I'm not listening intently at the reactions he gets because his very presence on my TV annoys the fuck out of me.

 

I'd dispute this point you made:

 

Thing is, if it was Orton in the exact same position, I have reason to believe that he'd be just as over as Batista, and the marks would love him, as well as there would be smarks who'd jump on his bandwagon.

 

I'm sorry, but Batista (up until his recent, awful, kiss-ass promos that you know HHH helped script) was just so calm, natural, and bad-ass the way he cut his promos, I can't see Orton doing the same job nearly half as well. Plus, Orton being booked as a monster simply would not work like it has with Batista. Orton still looks like he doesn't belong, IMO.

[naiwf 0]

Even now, his Randy Wear is selling like crazy. (Which even amazes me >_>). So, he's making the WWE money. And well, he doesn't have to be a great worker to connect with the fans...so, push Orton.

How can you make that judgment when Orton doesn't have a single item in the top 10 WWE Sellers list on Shopzone? Cena has items 1, 3, 5, 6 & 8. Some gift bags are # 2. Batista's at 4, a WM XXI t-shirt is 7, HHH is #9, and 'Taker rounds out the list. I also think the assertion that 30-40% of the crowd had 'Legend Killer' shirts at any time is straight up bullshit. Even in his heyday I don't think 2 in 5 people in the average crowd were wearing 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin's items and he's likely the man who moved more merch than anyone in the last decade. As usual, Orton fans don't seem to have a solid grasp on the reality of any situation he's involved in.

[4hartthreat 0]

I am not an anti-smark, which is why I can't believe how people here are getting on this Batista bandwagon when he is everything smarks don't want in their superstars. If anyone here is a true smark (don't bother pointing out how ridiculous this is, believe me I know, but you brought it up) it is me and the rest of the anti-Batistas here.

 

As for me only liking Orton because this board hates him, I never said anything like that. I said I hope he beats Taker because of this board but that is it. I have liked Orton ever since he did the Randy updates while he was injured and you can ask anyone who knows me about that. (I'm looking at you chaosrage, I'm sure you'll love confirming how "retarded" I am for liking Orton since then..)

 

And my point which you ignored is, Orton was very much over in his cocky-heel role when he won the title, so much so that he got cheered over Benoit in Canada. So why wouldn't putting him back as that character and giving him a win over Taker at WM elevate him to a superstar again?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Since when did it become a pre-requisite of being 'smark' to not want a hoss to be a superstar ?

[naiwf 0]

And my point which you ignored is, Orton was very much over in his cocky-heel role when he won the title, so much so that he got cheered over Benoit in Canada. So why wouldn't putting him back as that character and giving him a win over Taker at WM elevate him to a superstar again?

Because he just reclaimed that character 13 days before WM XXI? It would have been one thing if they'd turned him heel at the Rumble, he eliminated 'Taker from the Rumble match, hunted him down at NWO (like Batista did to JBL), and basically jabbed at 'Taker for months leading into this match. It's quite something else to hotshot the biggest streak in WM history to him in the HOPES that the crowd won't shit all over him (again). The whole Orton title reign was a bad idea with no build up or follow up, and in my opinion that's what they're going to do here once again. Orton's fans have been Orton's fans for a while, he just doesn't seem to add any new ones in the same way that Batista and Cena have over that same time frame which is exactly why he should be in the midcard, and they should be in the Main Event.

[Exslade ZX 0]

Since when did it become a pre-requisite of being 'smark' to not want a hoss to be a superstar ?

...Since smarks started saying hoss' shouldn't be superstars?

 

Everyone knows the few prerequisites are that, you must love Benoit, and you have to think you can do a better job of writing the show then any of the WWE employees, not named Paul Heyman. (Although the last ones not to farfetched >_>)

[AndrewTS 0]

"Orton was very much over in his cocky-heel role when he won the title, so much so that he got cheered over Benoit in Canada. So why wouldn't putting him back as that character and giving him a win over Taker at WM elevate him to a superstar again?"

 

Because it's a midcard character at best. Hell, I'm at a loss for telling that character from his current character. They're the same damn thing to me. Orton's just a pathetic suckup to the fans as a face instead of to HHH.

[Exslade ZX 0]

"Orton was very much over in his cocky-heel role when he won the title, so much so that he got cheered over Benoit in Canada. So why wouldn't putting him back as that character and giving him a win over Taker at WM elevate him to a superstar again?"

 

Because it's a midcard character at best. Hell, I'm at a loss for telling that character from his current character. They're the same damn thing to me. Orton's just a pathetic suckup to the fans as a face instead of to HHH.

Since when is 'cocky' a midcard character? In a way..you can say generic, because that's what a lot of heels are, but there have been 'cocky heels' as jobbers, midcarders, main eventers. Hell..what is HHH now? What was the Rock as a heel? Undertaker (when he first got the haircut). They were all 'I'm better then you, you suck, cocky heels' which is what a lot of heels in wrestling are.

 

That's what JBL is now. People were saying that was a midcard gimmick, and still are, BUT, JBL is over as hell right now. And there is no one that should feel honest in saying he's not.

[Guest Trivia247]

I now believe that he'll go over, and what a travesty, they do these nice promos and stuff where the Undertaker is unable to respond because of the roster split and therefore the Orton character will be built up with no real interaction with his opponent and will make himself credible by RKOing former wrestling drugged out legends and little girls.

 

Im so glad that it was that important for all of you that just anyone should break the Taker's record.

[Some Guy 0]

I now believe that he'll go over, and what a travesty, they do these nice promos and stuff where the Undertaker is unable to respond because of the roster split and therefore the Orton character will be built up with no real interaction with his opponent and will make himself credible by RKOing former wrestling drugged out legends and little girls.

 

Im so glad that it was that important for all of you that just anyone should break the Taker's record.

That sort of reminds me of a lot of Taker's promos, who like HHH can say just about anything he wants to bury his opponents but they have to preface everything they say with how much respect they have for him and how great he is and God forbid they say anything to actually get over on a 42 year old who really should have no other place on the show but putting young guys over. This guy has squashed or cleanly defeated just about everybody on the roster in the last 15 years, you think it might, just maybe getting to be about that time for him to start giving something back? He's almost as bad as Hogan in terms of putting people over. Who is the last guy Taker put over? Brock? BTW, there is a huge differance between doing a job and putting someone over.

 

EDIT: For more typos than usual for me, which is saying something.

[chaosrage 0]

Because he just reclaimed that character 13 days before WM XXI? It would have been one thing if they'd turned him heel at the Rumble, he eliminated 'Taker from the Rumble match, hunted him down at NWO (like Batista did to JBL), and basically jabbed at 'Taker for months leading into this match. It's quite something else to hotshot the biggest streak in WM history to him in the HOPES that the crowd won't shit all over him (again). The whole Orton title reign was a bad idea with no build up or follow up, and in my opinion that's what they're going to do here once again. Orton's fans have been Orton's fans for a while, he just doesn't seem to add any new ones in the same way that Batista and Cena have over that same time frame which is exactly why he should be in the midcard, and they should be in the Main Event.

Adding to that, Batista seems like a nice guy in real life while Orton seems like a giant douche bag. I wouldn't have a problem with Batista winning, I don't want him to but I'd be okay with it. He's also got better mic skills than Orton and he's more over than Orton could ever dream of being. At least he's no worse than Orton, Brock, or Goldberg.

[UZI Suicide 0]

Orton doesn't HAVE to win to be "put over". It can be an extremely hard fought match, tons of close pinfalls, a ref bump where Orton probably would have pinned UT, then after a little more fighting UT eventually wins. After a match like that the crowd will probably have some respect for Orton.. UT gets to keep his streak, Orton gets to take time off for his shoulder, and have a lot of hype surrounding his return.

[Exslade ZX 0]

Orton doesn't HAVE to win to be "put over". It can be an extremely hard fought match, tons of close pinfalls, a ref bump where Orton probably would have pinned UT, then after a little more fighting UT eventually wins. After a match like that the crowd will probably have some respect for Orton.. UT gets to keep his streak, Orton gets to take time off for his shoulder, and have a lot of hype surrounding his return.

And there's clearly nothing wrong with that.

 

But the way some people are talking, its just an all out travesty that ORton is in the ring with Undertaker, and that Taker should pretty much do, what they all hate that he does. Which is bury someone else.

[Some Guy 0]

Orton doesn't HAVE to win to be "put over". It can be an extremely hard fought match, tons of close pinfalls, a ref bump where Orton probably would have pinned UT, then after a little more fighting UT eventually wins. After a match like that the crowd will probably have some respect for Orton.. UT gets to keep his streak, Orton gets to take time off for his shoulder, and have a lot of hype surrounding his return.

I understand that, but who is the last guy that Taker put over like that? I can't think of a single one. Very, very few guys get over like you decribed. Both participants generally have to be great workers (like Bret and Austin) and Orton and Taker are not great workers by any strech. I don't think Taker is capable of doing it.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Another point in Batista's favor is that he's had interviews where admits he has a lot to learn, and wants to work to get better in the ring, and that he sometimes can't believe he's in the position that he's in.

 

He just comes off as a genuinely nice guy in real life (whereas Orton is taking dumps in diva's gymbags, and pouring drinks over their heads on flights). While not a prerequisite for a push, obviously, but it can't help but make you a fan of the guy.

[Some Guy 0]

I have no problem with Batista as a person, from what I've read he is a great guy who loves his wive adn took care of her when she was sick. He wears his wedding ring when he wrestles. But that doen't mean I have to enjoy his crappy ring work.

[iggymcfly 0]

Orton doesn't HAVE to win to be "put over".  It can be an extremely hard fought match, tons of close pinfalls, a ref bump where Orton probably would have pinned UT, then after a little more fighting UT eventually wins. After a match like that the crowd will probably have some respect for Orton.. UT gets to keep his streak, Orton gets to take time off for his shoulder, and have a lot of hype surrounding his return.

I understand that, but who is the last guy that Taker put over like that? I can't think of a single one. Very, very few guys get over like you decribed. Both participants generally have to be great workers (like Bret and Austin) and Orton and Taker are not great workers by any strech. I don't think Taker is capable of doing it.

John Cena at Vengeance 2003. I thought he put him over fine.

 

If you want an even better one, there's the Raw match with RVD that ended with the Dusty Finish. He lost the heat after jobbing to Lesnar and HHH and then getting moved way down the card, but Taker definitely put him over.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Orton doesn't HAVE to win to be "put over".  It can be an extremely hard fought match, tons of close pinfalls, a ref bump where Orton probably would have pinned UT, then after a little more fighting UT eventually wins. After a match like that the crowd will probably have some respect for Orton.. UT gets to keep his streak, Orton gets to take time off for his shoulder, and have a lot of hype surrounding his return.

I understand that, but who is the last guy that Taker put over like that? I can't think of a single one. Very, very few guys get over like you decribed. Both participants generally have to be great workers (like Bret and Austin) and Orton and Taker are not great workers by any strech. I don't think Taker is capable of doing it.

John Cena at Vengeance 2003. I thought he put him over fine.

Except he treated him like crap, picked him up on a two count, kicked out of a chain shot and Cena's finsher, and then promptly pinned him clean.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Okay here are a few thoughts:

 

1. I read the Batista interviews and he does seem like a cool guy and someone you should like and all of that, but come on, the suit thing is a little gay.

 

2. Taker sucks, Orton sucks more, Taker should win.

 

3. Exslade, that < _< thing? STOP DOING THAT

[Exslade ZX 0]

Okay here are a few thoughts:

 

1. I read the Batista interviews and he does seem like a cool guy and someone you should like and all of that, but come on, the suit thing is a little gay.

 

2. Taker sucks, Orton sucks more, Taker should win.

 

3. Exslade, that < _< thing? STOP DOING THAT

Sorry, it's a habit. >_>

 

Ok, yea, that was just smart ass , but it really is.

 

[The Czech Republic 0]

Dude, you should be kicked in the balls.

[Guest cosbywasmurdered]

I have no problem with Batista as a person, from what I've read he is a great guy who loves his wive adn took care of her when she was sick. He wears his wedding ring when he wrestles. But that doen't mean I have to enjoy his crappy ring work.

He's been wrestling Snitsky and Kane. Your not getting to show alot against them, especially in a godawful gimmick match like a Lumberjack match.

[humongous2002 0]

Batista might not be a Benoit in the ring but he has that main eventer charisma just like Goldberg, as long as he doesn't start believing in his own hype and continues improving his in-ring skills (which he will) he will stay as a top guy from years to come.

[alfdogg 0]

I rather liked the Snitsky-Shelton series, just for the record.

[SuperJerk 0]

Its really resonating with me now how totally wrong the RKO of Stacy was.

 

First of all, Orton walked away looking remorseful like a total pussy afterwards.

 

Second, JR saying "If he'd do that to his own girlfriend, imagine what he'll do to the Undertaker" (or words to that effect) was possibly the dumbest thing JR could have possibly said at that moment.

 

Now, if he'd RKO'd Stacy, and been all happy about it, and JR had sold it as "If that's how merciless he gets when he thinks people doubt him, then the Undertaker's streak might be in danger after all!"

[Some Guy 0]

I have no problem with Batista as a person, from what I've read he is a great guy who loves his wive adn took care of her when she was sick.  He wears his wedding ring when he wrestles.  But that doen't mean I have to enjoy his crappy ring work.

He's been wrestling Snitsky and Kane. Your not getting to show alot against them, especially in a godawful gimmick match like a Lumberjack match.

I've seen him against HBK and Benoit and he didn't exactly shine in either match. He was really bad at WM 20 in there with Foley and Rock. That's 3 matches with 4 good workers and he did nothing to impress me. His wrestling style is "Generic Hoss verison 1.0." He does nothing that I haven't seen a million times from a million guys. Nothing he does looks devastating, his offense is plodding and pedestrian. The guy is just not a good worker. I hope he turns into a big star and brings the company back to it's 2000 heights but I don't see it with or without HHH around to steal his spotlight.

 

Why do so many people defend this guy? He did a few cool backstage segments with HHH and looks cool in a suit? I don't get it.