Storm/JBL/Holly dispute

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

JBl reign > Eddie reign

[naiwf 0]

JBl reign > Eddie reign

The booking had absolutely NOTHING to do with that right? It's not as though they actually tried to give Eddie something to work with, but they decided to force feed us almost a year of JBL on top. That seems pretty comparable to me. Ugh.

[Vyce 0]

At least they don't have to deal with Jim Duggan and his dildo blender.

That was when that thread officially became the greatest thing ever on the internet.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

The funny thing is that Chris Benoit just did the exact same thing, but you hear absolutely nobody saying anything negative about it. Hassan disagreed with some advice that Sgt Slaughter was giving him and debated with him about it, and Benoit deemed this disrespectful and "sentenced" Hassan to pay all of the wrestlers bar tab that night, which was hundreds of dollars. It's stupid no matter who does it, but at least JBL's enforcement didn't cost a guy new to the business and making a shit downside salary a ton of money.

 

I can see Lance Storm's side and Bradshaw's side in the story. With that said, Jeter disrespected a lot of guys in the locker room whether he meant to or not when he was knocking coming in as half of a tag team. So Bradshaw and the rest of the locker room "sentence" the guy to watching some classic tag team footage and add some levity to it by making the kid fetch some beers for Bradshaw. Big fucking deal, that's constructive and actually helping the kid appreciate the tag teams that came before him. That's a hell of a lot better than just saying "You disrespected Sarge by not agreeing with him so now you'll drop this weeks salary on buying us drinks" like Chris Benoit did.

 

People will jump on Bradshaw for anything when Benoit is doing the exact same thing and he gets a pass. Then they will bring up the fact that "Bradshaw rapes people in the shower", completely ignoring the fact that the only reason Bradshaw even did that was because the guy in question had been bragging about using date rape drugs on girls on the road and JBL wanted to teach him a lesson. I wouldn't faux-rape anyone, but I think Bradshaw was a pretty stand up guy in that situation and everything he has done since (Germany and this story) is all blown out of proportion because people resent JBL's push so much.

[TheBostonStrangler 0]

I'd have to agree, this is completely overblown. I respect Storm, and he's a good man for telling the guys what to expect and not to take too much crap. But when you're the new guy, you're gonna put up with some jokes. Carrying luggage, getting drinks, picking up tabs, that type of thing. Overall, it's not a big deal, and it's the kind of tradition that should continue. Now, when it turns into things like JBL's famous shower incident, or Holly taking people out in the ring, then we have issues. But hazing, in the form that was described here, isn't a problem and shouldn't be an issue. Storm needs to loosen up a little, JBL needs to make sure his punishments remain lighthearted, and Holly just needs to shut up and stop causing problems everywhere he goes.

[Guest BDC]

I never once heard the Benoit story.

 

Storm doesn't like new guys getting taken advantage of. He doesn't like it in any form to probably keep it from escalating into the crap we know as Bradshaw's shower adventure or Holly's ring beatings.

[Guest Thrashist]

It amazes me how people like Lance Storm have survived in the wrestling business considering he seems to have way too much class as a human being to put up with it.

 

Storm is absolutely right. Look, I know that the young guys have to come into the locker room and show respect to the others. But realize that Storm has been around long enough to see how the hazing, court, etc have gone way too far in humiliating or punishing a new guy. Being in the business takes more than armbars and wristlocks, and kudos to Storm for teaching them about the Bradshaws and Bob Hollys of the world.

[MikeJordan23 0]

Good shit by Storm. I wouldn't do known of that nonsense they have the new guys doing. That shit doesn't build "character" or make anyone "respect the business". It's just done to embarass someone for no reason. And for a company that stresses professionalism, that whole Wrestler's Court practice is a complete contradiction of what they profess.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

I never once heard the Benoit story.

It's in the newest Torch that just came out.

 

On the last Raw overseas tour before WrestleMania, Muhammad Hassan lost some locker room points for unintentionally disrespecting Sgt. Slaughter during a backstage conversation. Sarge, a road agent, gave Hassan some ideas for his match, and Hassan disagreed with the advice. He didn't mean to be disrespectful. Hassan was sentenced by Chris Benoit and a couple other Raw wrestlers to cover the bar tab for the crew that night, ringing up a bill for him of several hundred dollars.

 

Worse than Bradshaw's behavior as JBL's was constructive and served a purpose, Benoit and company strongarming Hassan into dropping a few hundred dollars serves no purpose than to bully the new guy and take advantage of his mistake in a non-constructive manor.

 

If Bradshaw is a dick, so is Chris Benoit, though it's been entertaining so far elsewhere seeing people try to knock Bradshaw's actions and justify Benoit's in the same breathe.

 

Wrong, stupid and immature behavior on both guys part.

[Shanghai Kid 0]

Wow, Benoit sucks. Making the guy pay hundreds because he disagreed with old man Slaughter? WTF? Benoit could of used those hundreds to go to the dentist.

[Star Ocean 3 0]

Where have people been justifying Benoit's actions?

[bob_barron 0]

If Bradshaw is a dick, so is Chris Benoit, though it's been entertaining so far elsewhere seeing people try to knock Bradshaw's actions and justify Benoit's in the same breathe.

No, not really.

 

No one is calling JBL a dick just b/c of this one incident.

[ISportsFan 0]

Not trying to justify Benoit's actions, but shouldn't Hassan be taking every piece of advice he can get? He is not very good in the ring. Heck, his manager is a better wrestler than he is.

 

Jason

[Guest BDC]

If Bradshaw is a dick, so is Chris Benoit, though it's been entertaining so far elsewhere seeing people try to knock Bradshaw's actions and justify Benoit's in the same breathe.

No, not really.

 

No one is calling JBL a dick just b/c of this one incident.

I personally regard JBL as a dick for the whole shower incident, but that's just me...

[Slickster 0]

Not trying to justify Benoit's actions, but shouldn't Hassan be taking every piece of advice he can get? He is not very good in the ring. Heck, his manager is a better wrestler than he is.

 

Jason

I dunno, maybe it contradicted something that he was taught in OVW by the trainers or something. I'm thinking he was talking with someone about which way to do it (Sarge's or the trainer's) and someone took that to mean he was direspecting Sarge.

[Eclipse 0]

Ummm...this actually makes me disappointed. This is the kind of crap that goes on backstage? Wow....makes WWE hopefuls sick...

[SuperJerk 0]

I'd have to agree, this is completely overblown. I respect Storm, and he's a good man for telling the guys what to expect and not to take too much crap. But when you're the new guy, you're gonna put up with some jokes. Carrying luggage, getting drinks, picking up tabs, that type of thing. Overall, it's not a big deal, and it's the kind of tradition that should continue. Now, when it turns into things like JBL's famous shower incident, or Holly taking people out in the ring, then we have issues. But hazing, in the form that was described here, isn't a problem and shouldn't be an issue. Storm needs to loosen up a little, JBL needs to make sure his punishments remain lighthearted, and Holly just needs to shut up and stop causing problems everywhere he goes.

I have to agree with this.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

If Bradshaw is a dick, so is Chris Benoit, though it's been entertaining so far elsewhere seeing people try to knock Bradshaw's actions and justify Benoit's in the same breathe.

No, not really.

 

No one is calling JBL a dick just b/c of this one incident.

I personally regard JBL as a dick for the whole shower incident, but that's just me...

Ok. So a wrestler (Brian Christopher is the name that is rumored most often) uses date rape drugs on girls and brags about it to the rest of the wrestlers, and Bradshaw corners him and threatens to rape him if he doesn't stop, and that makes Bradshaw a dick? I think that it makes him a pretty standup guy.

[bob_barron 0]

Soaping guys in the shower makes him a dick.

 

Doing the Heil Hitler makes him a dick

[Beast 0]

I also remember the whole Billy Silverman incident where Silverman bought himself a first class ticket and it offended the wrestlers so Bradshaw made him carry beer up some stairs and hurt Silverman's back.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Bradshaw corners him and threatens to rape him if he doesn't stop, and that makes Bradshaw a dick? I think that it makes him a pretty standup guy.

Threatening to rape another man makes you a stand-up guy?

[iggymcfly 0]

My first response here actually was that the new guy should just quit being a bitch, watch the tape, and carry the damn beer. If Bradshaw was still a JTTM (jobber to the midcard), it might be different. But if the World Champion's trying to send you a message, I think you should probably just go with it.

[chuck415 0]

The thing about this is that this happens in other sports as well. Hasn't anyone ever heard of Kangaroo court. Even at most jobs the new guy always gets hazed a little. That's just a fact of life.

I think that it was ok for Storm to let his students know what they are in for. But telling the kid not to go along with the courts ruling probaly hurt more than helped in this situation.

Maybe Im just old school.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

Bradshaw corners him and threatens to rape him if he doesn't stop, and that makes Bradshaw a dick? I think that it makes him a pretty standup guy.

Threatening to rape another man makes you a stand-up guy?

If your intended result is to stop a coworker from raping women, than yes it does make you a standup guy. it's extreme measures, but if it is to scare someone into not RAPING WOMEN, than yes, it's a good thing and if you hold that isolated incident against him than you're obviously too wrapped up in hating the guy to understand that the intentions in this situation were in the right place this time. If it were your friend that the wrestler was drugging and having sex with, you'd probably have a little more respect for Bradshaw taking a stand.

 

Soaping guys in the shower makes him a dick.

 

You find one documented incident of that actually happening, especially one where he did it in a harassing way, and I'll be impressed. I am not holding my breath though, because it is one of those things everyone states as fact with no proof.

 

Doing the Heil Hitler makes him a dick

 

Selective prosecution there. I have it on pretty good authority that Bradshaw doesn't actually support the views of Adolf Hitler. He was a heel doing something that has been done in wrestling for nearly a century. Why not dig up Fritz Von Erich and call him a dick while you are at it. You can't point a guy out for doing something like this when wrestling as a whole has been classless pretty much since its inception, and while Hassan is mock throat slitting on Raw. Bradshaw got carried away, did something in character to rile up the crowd that has been done thousands of times before and paid the price.

 

Is Eddie Guerrero a dick for getting drunk beyond belief and running his car off the road and putting the lives of everyone else on the road around him? Of course not, because you happen to like him. The Dynamite Kid should be in jail for all of the just plain cruel shit that he did. Shawn Michaels took part in lacing a girls drink with enough drugs to put her in a coma, and when she passed out took off her top and touched her chest. Is he a dick?

 

Everyone makes mistakes, and I'll admit that the Billy Silverman stuff is terrible, but it's pretty obvious that most people on the internet demonize their least favorites and consider their favorites to be heroes when in many cases that simply isn't the case.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Bradshaw corners him and threatens to rape him if he doesn't stop, and that makes Bradshaw a dick? I think that it makes him a pretty standup guy.

Threatening to rape another man makes you a stand-up guy?

If your intended result is to stop a coworker from raping women, than yes it does make you a standup guy. it's extreme measures, but if it is to scare someone into not RAPING WOMEN, than yes, it's a good thing and if you hold that isolated incident against him than you're obviously too wrapped up in hating the guy to understand that the intentions in this situation were in the right place this time. If it were your friend that the wrestler was drugging and having sex with, you'd probably have a little more respect for Bradshaw taking a stand.

This doesn't have to do with me hating Bradshaw. I don't watch SmackDown enough to formulate an opinion on Bradshaw. I'm just making fun of you because you see rape threats as what a "standup guy" would do.

[bob_barron 0]

You find one documented incident of that actually happening, especially one where he did it in a harassing way, and I'll be impressed

 

Edge talks about in his book. He doesn't act like Bradshaw was a horrible guy for doing it but still

[teke184 0]

The thread over at DVDVR contained numerous instances where Bradshaw was accused of sticking his finger up someone's ass in the showers.

 

 

This is separate from the infamous "Bradshaw's Baby Oil" instance which, supposedly, involved Duke "The Dumpster" Droese using home-made GHB on chicks.

 

(I think I'm one of the people that thought it was Brian Christopher and associated his name with it. Considering that Christopher is a world-class ASSHOLE, it was a natural assumption. However, I've since been informed that it was probably Droese and that it contributed to him leaving the company.)

[Guest Hass of Pain]

The thread over at DVDVR is also nearly a thousand outlandish claims with no sources cited or reasons given to believe that many of them are in any way credible though.

 

The two credible stories involving Bradshaw that I have heard are threatening to rape a guy if he didn't stop raping girls (Dave Meltzer), which though unusual I respect him for, and that he bullied Billy Silverman (Keller and pretty much everyone credible reported it) which I think is a pretty dick thing of him to do.

 

Anyway, I am not trying to blindly defend Bradshaw. I think he sounds like he can be an asshole like most people in wrestling seem to be, but I don't think he is Satan either. That's the only point I was trying to make.

[Prime Time Andrew Doyle 0]

Anybody got a link to the DVDVR thread?

[Guest Heppyhack]

The funny thing is that Chris Benoit just did the exact same thing, but you hear absolutely nobody saying anything negative about it. Hassan disagreed with some advice that Sgt Slaughter was giving him and debated with him about it, and Benoit deemed this disrespectful and "sentenced" Hassan to pay all of the wrestlers bar tab that night, which was hundreds of dollars. It's stupid no matter who does it, but at least JBL's enforcement didn't cost a guy new to the business and making a shit downside salary a ton of money.

 

Absolutely, and much as I love Benoit I think, if that's legit - and I don't doubt it is - then Benoit's totally wrong in that situation. Unless Hassan was sitting there saying Sarge knows nothing about wrestling and insulting him, how can there be anything wrong in a younger wrestler questioning advice and debating it?

 

I can see Lance Storm's side and Bradshaw's side in the story. With that said, Jeter disrespected a lot of guys in the locker room whether he meant to or not when he was knocking coming in as half of a tag team. So Bradshaw and the rest of the locker room "sentence" the guy to watching some classic tag team footage and add some levity to it by making the kid fetch some beers for Bradshaw. Big fucking deal, that's constructive and actually helping the kid appreciate the tag teams that came before him. That's a hell of a lot better than just saying "You disrespected Sarge by not agreeing with him so now you'll drop this weeks salary on buying us drinks" like Chris Benoit did.

 

I agree - but I think tearing into Lance for trying to get the kids to stand up for themselves is also wrong. And JBL's inference that Lance would basically telling these kids to disrespect either their colleagues or the business is laughable - especially given who it was directed at.

 

People will jump on Bradshaw for anything when Benoit is doing the exact same thing and he gets a pass. Then they will bring up the fact that "Bradshaw rapes people in the shower", completely ignoring the fact that the only reason Bradshaw even did that was because the guy in question had been bragging about using date rape drugs on girls on the road and JBL wanted to teach him a lesson. I wouldn't faux-rape anyone, but I think Bradshaw was a pretty stand up guy in that situation and everything he has done since (Germany and this story) is all blown out of proportion because people resent JBL's push so much.

 

In some cases, yes. And there is a point of view to say making Jeter get his beers, and watch some videos of great tag matches of the past, is nothing. But the question becomes where do you draw the line? When does questioning - as seems to be the case in the Hassan incident - become disrespect? JBL, and especially Holly, have reputations for taking liberties with some younger grapplers in the ring and backstage, and surely Lance was just steeling his charges to that and warning them they'll have to stand up for themselves.