CM Punk buried by HHH, Hayes, and HBK

[Black Lushus 0]

the thing is, though, HHH and HBK are the perfect examples of "the WWE way of wrestling"...if that's what Vince wants his wrestling to be like, he's going to take stock in what those two have to say...EVERYONE has dumbed down their performances since coming to the WWE from other promotions, most notably guys like Mysterio, Jericho and Booker T...we've talked about this over and over on this very board...I don't AGREE with HHH and HBK, but if anyone knows how a guy should be doing in the "WWE Style", it's definently those two and CM Punk needs to listen if he wants to continue getting paychecks from the E...

[Guest rawmvp]

Trust me, if TNA starts to gain steam, the mind-numbingly boring WWE style will be done away with very quickly.

[Silence 0]

I find it surprising that HHH and HBK would jump at the opportunity to lambaste the guy. Actually, I'm not. Those guys are the most paranoid, underhanded, conniving SOB's in the history of professional wrestling. As Black Lushus said, they know he's good -- too good, with a great opportunity to make it big -- but they want to cut him off at his knees like everyone else who isn't homegrown talent or is a potential threat to their spot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They're basically trying to screw him over worse than HHH did to Jericho since 1999.

[Black Lushus 0]

the infamous glass ceiling returns!

[Guest rawmvp]

the infamous glass ceiling returns!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Which is ridiculous coming from HHH and HBK, since they're WWE'rs for life.

[Silence 0]

the infamous glass ceiling returns!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When's someone going to make a sig pic of HHH and HBK "above" the "glass ceiling" with CM Punk "under" it?

[King Cucaracha 0]

OMGLOLTEHCLIKZ2K5~!

 

 

"Lord knows, if it's on the internet, it MUST be true."

- Shawn Michaels.

[Mystery Eskimo 0]

Regardless of whether or not this stuff is true, Punk would still have been better off going to TNA.

[Guest Brian]

Second, why are we treating this news item as complete truth and saying the "HHH likes Punk" news item was bullshit. Didn't they come from the same 'source'? I shouldn't be surprised that everybody's so quick to see the worst in HHH and HBK all the time, every time I guess. But it'd be nice if people would take any article with a pinch of salt, instead of just the ones they want to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good chance that both could be true. All it takes is for Vince to leave them a crumb and the cockroaches will come running.

[Phoenix Fury Legdrop 0]

Punk's not really all that great. For one, he's sloppy as hell. Also, he's good at working smaller buildings, but he doesn't have broad enough mannerisms to get across to a larger arena. It's not a matter of "OH MY GOD! (insert "WWE = resthold city" joke here)! FUCK HHH!". Fact is, Punk (and almost all indy guys) aren't ready right off the bat to be put on TV and even look good.

[Ripper 0]

Broad mannerisms look like crap. There. I said it. I know you have to make the guy in the 50th row know what you are feeling and all that is fine, but the over mannerisms make wrestling look cartoonish.

 

And for all the Punk is a alright wrestler comments, you would be hard pressed naming someone who put on better matches this year. Yes, he had great guys working with him, but the guy is probably North American wrestler of the year. He is a little better than "alright".

[Vyce 0]

I'm torn over who to laugh at: HHH for remarking that Punk can't work, or Punk for believing that in the WWE he'd be considered anything other than a joke.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

So when are they debuting the deaf gimmick? That'll get him over.

[Silence 0]

So when are they debuting the deaf gimmick? That'll get him over.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I read that the ROH board (or Steve Corino, ironically enough) came up with that character and "predicted" that WWE would give CM Punk the "deaf" gimmick.

 

Then again, WWE is the same promotion that still went ahead with debuting a Smackdown diva with a tumor on her face and saddled her with MNM for a short while for no reason.

[Guest OSIcon]

Punk's not really all that great. For one, he's sloppy as hell. Also, he's good at working smaller buildings, but he doesn't have broad enough mannerisms to get across to a larger arena.

 

I am not the biggest Punk fan in the world and could live without seeing any of his pre-Joe (June 2004) work, but he has improved a ton and some of those criticisms really aren't valid anymore.

 

I don't remember him blowing anything badly in recent memory or just having generally sloppy matches. He used to be a guy that could be pretty sloppy (don't know if I'd say "sloppy as hell) and then turn around the next match and look world class. For the better part of 2005 though, he has been far more "on" than "sloppy". Not sure if you've seen much of his 2005 stuff, but he as seemed to turn a corner in consistency.

 

The mannerism critique is weird to me for a coule of reasons. First, I am not sure how you can gauge that he can't work large crowds with his mannerisms when he hasn't had a legit match to test that in. The whole "can't work a large crowd" thing is also comes off as an excuse as far as I am concerned, concerning that must everyone who has come out ov OVW has had *maybe* a few dark matches on WWE shows where they could work on their "large crowd mannerisms". Otherwise, they are all working small shows too.

 

Overall, this story isn't a huge deal because there was a very, very good chance Punk was heading to OVW no matter what. I would have been really surprised if it happened the other way around. It is just that the comments Meltzer attributes to Triple H and Michaels are really silly. You can't judge a guy on one match, especially a guy whose largest strengths are a good wrestling mind and good promos.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I'd like to see Hunter and Shawn work a 60:00 draw without the use of every shortcut in the book. Let's see how they do without the gimmickry they need to make them look good over that length of time.

[Guest jumpingbombangel]

I can't believe people would be surprised at this. CM Punk was always a big fish in a small pond and needs to go back to living life like a king in the indies instead of being some WWE douche. If you expected him to make some waves in a company that fits him like Urkel pants, I laugh at thee.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

the infamous glass ceiling returns!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When's someone going to make a sig pic of HHH and HBK "above" the "glass ceiling" with CM Punk "under" it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Happy?

[AlaskanHero 0]

Punk's just going to need some time to adjust to the WWE. He's going from being a huge fish in a small pond to a guppie in the Pacific. Him going to OVW now will probably be good for him, allowing him to adjust his moveset and style to something that would help him stand out and maybe get over. He has a great wrestling mind, so if he really tries he can possibly avoid being completely misused.

 

Though to be completely honest, unless Mick comes to bat for Punk and protects him from political sabotage, I could see Punk ending up like Raven or Jericho (at the very, VERY best).

[Guest rawmvp]

the infamous glass ceiling returns!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When's someone going to make a sig pic of HHH and HBK "above" the "glass ceiling" with CM Punk "under" it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Happy?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Someone make a sign out of that and take it to RAW.

[UZI Suicide 0]

So much for all that "HHH is a huge fan of CM Punk" stuff that was going around.

[Rendclaw 0]

Punk's just going to need some time to adjust to the WWE. He's going from being a huge fish in a small pond to a guppie in the Pacific. Him going to OVW now will probably be good for him, allowing him to adjust his moveset and style to something that would help him stand out and maybe get over. He has a great wrestling mind, so if he really tries he can possibly avoid being completely misused.

 

Though to be completely honest, unless Mick comes to bat for Punk and protects him from political sabotage, I could see Punk ending up like Raven or Jericho (at the very, VERY best).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe, just maybe this might be one reason why Mick didn't sign with TNA? Aside from the money, of course.

 

This happens with every talent coming from another fed to the E, no matter how big or small. With everything both HHH and HBK have done in the past what, 15 years between the both of them, this sounds like doublespeak to me.

 

And there is no way, no way in HELL that he can avoid being misused. If you think otherwise, then you're simply naive. Booker, Benoit, especially Jericho have been horribly misused for years in the E, starting with that abortion of an Invasion angle, and we all know it. Anyone who isn;t grandfathered into the E is going to be broken down and remade in the E's image, no matter HOW good he is in the ring, on the mic, or both.

 

Punk is a good wrestler with the potential to be great, but he made a terrible decision by going to the E when the next logical step was TNA. He is running before he can walk, and that is going to come back to bite him.

[Guest Coffey]

This is bullshit. Mother-fucker isn't even on TV yet and somehow it's "reported" that Triple H is, suprise!, a "bad-guy" again.

 

So much for all that "HHH is a huge fan of CM Punk" stuff that was going around.

 

What if that's true? What if Triple H is a huge fan of CM Punk? You could look at it a few ways. It could be a true statement and THIS story is BS...or maybe Triple H is a fan of his because he saw his ROH work. I know it's UNHEARD OF to suggest this hear, but what if Triple H said all of this and still actually likes Punk? I wouldn't automatically pass judgment and assume that Triple H is out to bury Punk before he even makes TV.

 

As much as it comes out that Triple H loves this business and the McMahon family and WWE I just can't believe that he'd be so petty, spiteful and conceeded. I think it's narrow-minded to believe otherwise. There's always SOMEONE that eats all the blame for things wrong in wrestling. Triple H is the scapegoat for this generation. I remember when people bitched non-stop about the Rock. Said he couldn't work. Said he was repetitive. Said he never lost. Then he got better in the ring, started laying down and left for Hollywood. Now a lot of people are clamoring for his return like he's some sort of savior. Fans are just fucking fickle. The IWC is no different.

 

I mean, really, who gives a shit what HHH said about Punk backstage? It'll be Punks job to get over and whatnot on his own. Regardless of what other people say. People always talk. They always will. It's life.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Honestly I see this more as HHH and Michaels bringing constructive criticism. They might see a guy who is "rough around the edges" for their style, but they see something good in him, and hope he can improve.

 

Until I hear in an interveiw from HHH and Shawn Michaels, "oh yeah, that Punk guy... he can't work and sucks turds" then I'm not believing it.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

This is bullshit. Mother-fucker isn't even on TV yet and somehow it's "reported" that Triple H is, suprise!, a "bad-guy" again.

 

So much for all that "HHH is a huge fan of CM Punk" stuff that was going around.

 

What if that's true? What if Triple H is a huge fan of CM Punk? You could look at it a few ways. It could be a true statement and THIS story is BS...or maybe Triple H is a fan of his because he saw his ROH work. I know it's UNHEARD OF to suggest this hear, but what if Triple H said all of this and still actually likes Punk? I wouldn't automatically pass judgment and assume that Triple H is out to bury Punk before he even makes TV.

 

As much as it comes out that Triple H loves this business and the McMahon family and WWE I just can't believe that he'd be so petty, spiteful and conceeded. I think it's narrow-minded to believe otherwise. There's always SOMEONE that eats all the blame for things wrong in wrestling. Triple H is the scapegoat for this generation. I remember when people bitched non-stop about the Rock. Said he couldn't work. Said he was repetitive. Said he never lost. Then he got better in the ring, started laying down and left for Hollywood. Now a lot of people are clamoring for his return like he's some sort of savior. Fans are just fucking fickle. The IWC is no different.

 

I mean, really, who gives a shit what HHH said about Punk backstage? It'll be Punks job to get over and whatnot on his own. Regardless of what other people say. People always talk. They always will. It's life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What if that's true? What if Triple H is a huge fan of CM Punk? You could look at it a few ways. It could be a true statement and THIS story is BS...or maybe Triple H is a fan of his because he saw his ROH work. I know it's UNHEARD OF to suggest this hear, but what if Triple H said all of this and still actually likes Punk? I wouldn't automatically pass judgment and assume that Triple H is out to bury Punk before he even makes TV.

 

The problem is that history has shown us that Triple H DOES bury and undercut people who he thinks are a threat to his spot. Given that Triple H has done it so many times, it's understandable to believe it can happen again. It might not be fair, but with Triple H's track record, you can't really blame people for believing it is happening again.

 

As much as it comes out that Triple H loves this business and the McMahon family and WWE I just can't believe that he'd be so petty, spiteful and conceeded.

 

You can't believe Hunter could be so petty? Why? Hasn't his record when it comes to burying talent shown you how petty he can really be?

 

I remember when people bitched non-stop about the Rock. Said he couldn't work. Said he was repetitive. Said he never lost. Then he got better in the ring, started laying down and left for Hollywood

 

Rock was laying down, a lot, long before Hollywood had even heard of him.

 

It'll be Punks job to get over and whatnot on his own. Regardless of what other people say

 

Unfortunately, history has shown is that when you get over on your own, the knives come out, and it's usually down hill from there.

 

Until I hear in an interveiw from HHH and Shawn Michaels, "oh yeah, that Punk guy... he can't work and sucks turds" then I'm not believing it

 

That's a great way to hide from news you can't accept could be true. And history shows us that it likely is true.

[Guest Coffey]

See, no, I'm not seeing it. I mean, I guess I'm just too optimistic. The only "track record" I know of is more stuff that I've read. I've read that he sits in on productions meetings and whatnot and all that other mess. I've seen him win against people like RVD and Booker T. when I thought he should lose. Ultimately, Vince still has the final say, even if people are in his ear. If anyone is to blame, it'd be him for allowing people to walk all over him.

 

I agree with a lot of what you said though. It's just, I want to believe that Triple H isn't some backstage demon that only gets praise and TV time and whatnot because people are sucking up, afraid they'll get buried, etc.

 

To be honest, I usually agree with what Triple H reportedly says. Maybe that's why I feel this way? I don't know.

 

I mean, seriously, why would someone like Flair, who has nothing to lose, still praise HHH? He afraid they'll fire him and make a scornful DVD? Why would Edge only say nice things about HHH in his book? It just doesn't all add up.

[Jericholic82 0]

anyone else scared that apparantly shawn and HHH are the guys making decisions now?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

See, no, I'm not seeing it. I mean, I guess I'm just too optimistic. The only "track record" I know of is more stuff that I've read. I've read that he sits in on productions meetings and whatnot and all that other mess. I've seen him win against people like RVD and Booker T. when I thought he should lose. Ultimately, Vince still has the final say, even if people are in his ear. If anyone is to blame, it'd be him for allowing people to walk all over him.

 

I agree with a lot of what you said though. It's just, I want to believe that Triple H isn't some backstage demon that only gets praise and TV time and whatnot because people are sucking up, afraid they'll get buried, etc.

 

To be honest, I usually agree with what Triple H reportedly says. Maybe that's why I feel this way? I don't know.

 

I mean, seriously, why would someone like Flair, who has nothing to lose, still praise HHH? He afraid they'll fire him and make a scornful DVD? Why would Edge only say nice things about HHH in his book? It just doesn't all add up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

See, no, I'm not seeing it. I mean, I guess I'm just too optimistic. The only "track record" I know of is more stuff that I've read. I've read that he sits in on productions meetings and whatnot and all that other mess. I've seen him win against people like RVD and Booker T. when I thought he should lose. Ultimately, Vince still has the final say, even if people are in his ear. If anyone is to blame, it'd be him for allowing people to walk all over him.

 

Yes, you are too optimistic. While it is true Vince has the final say, a portion of blame still has to go the self-serving individuals trying to sway Vince's opinion. Would Vince push Punk? Maybe. But with his son-in-law apparently burying Punk, the chances of that would be almost zero.

 

It's just, I want to believe that Triple H isn't some backstage demon that only gets praise and TV time and whatnot because people are sucking up, afraid they'll get buried, etc.

 

Ah, to be wide-eyed and innocent again. Seriously, it would be nice to think that Hunter isn't that bad, but like I said, history shows he really is that bad when it comes to burying people.

 

I mean, seriously, why would someone like Flair, who has nothing to lose, still praise HHH? He afraid they'll fire him and make a scornful DVD? Why would Edge only say nice things about HHH in his book? It just doesn't all add up.

 

Flair likes to be liked, and he knows to play up to Hunter to get that. As for why Edge would only say nice things about Hunter in his book, it's just smart to praise the guy who is going to be running the company somewhere down the line and will have your career in the palm of his hand.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Game.

 

Set.

 

Match.

[Guest Coffey]

Maybe you're too pessimistic? Everyone in the business, for the most part, is self serving. Especially in the "big leagues." It's a kill or be killed business. Everyone knows that. It's not going to change. If's that's all this comes down to, then I say fucking kudos to Triple H for playing the game so well. He wasn't the first and he won't be the last.

 

History hasn't shown me shit except for the same trash that this thread has shown me. Someone says Triple H is bad, so he is. All aboard! No one wants to think about the other side of things. Maybe I think the "reporters" are full of shit? I've never sat in on a production meeting. I'm not around to hear people talk shit. It's just like the shit that went on in high school and I think we can agree that no one gives a fuck about that shit. People talk. It happens. I'm not saying Triple H doesn't pull strings and get his way. I'm saying, why can't we at least talk about the other side of the story? What if he doesn't? What if most of the shit that comes out just needs a scapegoat and Hunter is their fall guy because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

 

I refuse to believe that Flair sucks up to Triple H because "he likes to be liked" and that Edge said what he did because he's some super smart individual that was planning for the future. I mean, if he was that bright, he wouldn't have cheated on his wife with Lita and wouldn't be trying to reconcile that mess right now.