So did we torture Saddam?

[Guest Arnold_OldSchool]

Saddam Claims Americans Beat, Tortured Him By MARIAM FAM, Associated Press Writer

26 minutes ago

 

 

 

Saddam Hussein again grabbed center stage at his mass murder trial Wednesday with claims that Americans beat and "tortured" him and other defendants while in detention.

 

The deposed leader's lengthy complaint came after witnesses graphically described how their captors administered electric shocks and used molten plastic to rip the skin off prisoners in a crackdown following an assassination attempt against Saddam in 1982.

 

A U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad called Saddam's allegations "completely unfounded" but said "we are prepared to investigate."

 

"Beyond that, we have no interest in being a part of what are clearly courtroom antics aimed at disrupting the legal process," said Lt. Col. Barry Johnson.

 

The trial's chief prosecutor, Jaafar al-Mousawi, said if authorities found evidence of abuse Saddam could be transferred to the physical custody of Iraqi troops.

 

The former Iraqi leader and seven co-defendants are on trial for the deaths of more than 140 Shiites after the attempt on Saddam's life in the town of Dujail, north of Baghdad.

 

The prosecution's first witness Wednesday testified about killings and torture in Dujail. Ali Hassan Mohammed al-Haidari, who was 14 in 1982, said Saddam's regime executed seven of his brothers.

 

Al-Haidari said that he and other residents from Dujail — including family members — were taken to Baghdad and thrown into a security services prison, where people from "9 to 90" were held.

 

Blood poured from head wounds and skin was pale from electric shocks, he testified. Security officials would drip melted plastic hoses on detainees, only to pull it off after it cooled, tearing skin off with it, he said.

 

"I cannot express all that suffering and pain we faced in the 70 days inside," he said.

 

Two witnesses later testified from behind a curtain. One of them, identified only as Witness No. 2, said security officials "attached clamps to my thumbs and toes and private areas and tortured me with electricity until foam came out of my mouth."

 

After sitting quietly through several hours of testimony, Saddam launched into an extended monologue, saying he'd been beaten "everywhere on my body. The marks are still there." He did not display any marks.

 

"I want to say here, yes, we have been beaten by the Americans and we have been tortured," Saddam told the court before gesturing toward his seven co-defendants, "one by one."

 

With the trial televised across Iraq, his claims of torture at the hands of U.S. troops may resonate with Iraqis who have been shocked by the abuse of detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison, a scandal which led to the convictions of nine Army reservists. More recently, U.S. troops discovered abused prisoners at secret detention centers run by the Iraqi Interior Ministry.

 

Saddam had been defiant and combative during previous sessions of the trial, often trying to dominate the courtroom. He and his half brother Barazan Ibrahim, who was head of the Iraqi intelligence during the Dujail crackdown, have used the procedures to protest their own conditions in detention.

 

The ousted president had refused to attend the previous session on Dec. 7. "I will not come to an unjust court! Go to hell!" he said in an outburst in court the day before.

 

Earlier Wednesday before his accusations of torture, Saddam's behavior had been calmer, and he appeared clean-shaven and in fresh clothes, wearing a dark suit but no tie. On some previous occasions during the trial, Saddam appeared disheveled and complained about being held in unsanitary conditions.

 

Saddam stood in the fenced-in defendant's area and occasionally jabbed his finger toward the judge and prosecutor during his discourse Wednesday. He tried to refute witness statements and complained at length about the conditions of his detention, engaging in a debate with the chief prosecutor. Some of the exchange was edited out of the television broadcast.

 

Saddam also told the court that he knew the name of the person who betrayed his hiding place when U.S. forces found him in December 2003.

 

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack called it "highly ironic" that Saddam would accuse his jailers of mistreatment.

 

"I know of nothing that would substantiate such a claim," McCormack said. "Look, he's been given to grandstanding in this trial, but where the focus should be is on the testimony of those people who were victimized by the tyranny, the oppression and the violence of Saddam Hussein. That's what people should be listening to."

 

According to the Pentagon, the Iraqi government has legal custody and control of Saddam, while U.S. forces maintain his physical custody in a detention facility.

 

Inside the courtroom, the judge struggled, sometimes unsuccessfully, to maintain order as the procedures at times seemed to slip out of control.

 

Ibrahim insulted witnesses, calling one a "dog." He also launched rambling diatribes and menacingly wagged his finger at prosecutors and court guards.

 

Saddam also interrupted al-Haidari's testimony to ask the judge if the court could take a break for prayer. Although the witness agreed, the judge ordered the trial to continue. About 10 minutes later, Saddam swung to the left, closed his eyes and repeatedly bowed his head in prayer, the first time he has done that in court.

 

"Even if any of you doesn't pray, the constitution of the state, be it the one signed by Saddam Hussein or the constitution that was dictated to the Iraqis by the American adviser, states that Islam is the religion of the state. I alerted you twice that it was time for prayers, but you ignored me."

 

"I didn't ignore you," the judge responded.

 

"How can you put God on hold?" Saddam asked.

 

Muslims are required to pray five days a day at specific times.

 

In the 1980's, Iraq under Saddam was one of the most secular Arab states in the Middle East and Baghdad had some of the most vibrant nightlife in the region.

 

Following Operation Desert Storm in 1991 and as U.N.-imposed sanctions ground down the Iraqi economy, Saddam outwardly became more pious. He was seen praying and launching campaigns to reinforce the faith. Bars were restricted and nightlife became more muted.

 

Critics said his praying in court was a further effort to reach out to increasingly conservative Iraqis.

 

"Those who know Saddam well will not be duped by these scenarios. He kept trying hard to affect Iraqis emotionally and religiously and trying to deliver a message that he is a victim and not a tyrant," said Mariam al-Rayes, a Shiite legislator.

 

___

[2GOLD 0]

Well if Honest Hussein said it...

[Dogbert 0]

I wouldn't trust Hussein further than I could throw him.

 

Besides, even if they did torture him, who cares? Fucker deserves it.

[snuffbox 0]

Ol Hussein is really banking on the opinon of the retarded-American demographic...

[2GOLD 0]

Ol Hussein is really banking on the opinon of the retarded-American demographic...

 

You gotta admit, it might be a good strategy when you think about it. I'd hope no one buys half the shit he's shoveling but I know there are tons of people who'll eat it up like chocolate pudding.

[NoCalMike 0]

I doubt we did, it would be a ludicrous move to torture such a high profile detainee. If anything he is just trying to to leech off the other torturing going on.

[Guest Arnold_OldSchool]

I am under the impression he is trying to draw the Iraqi people into rebeling aganist the US forces who have been promoted as "evil" for the past 16 or so years

[Placebo Effect 0]

Why would we need to torture Saddam? For shits and giggles? America is stupid, but I'd hope we're not THAT stupid.

[Guest Amy Ace]

I'd be alittle disappointed if we DIDN'T torture Saddam.

Edited December 22, 2005 by Amy Ace

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

They probably did torture him.

 

But that's not a bad thing.

That's a good thing.

[haws bah gawd 0]

This is the same asshole that would just randomly send his soldiers to kill people in Iraq for no real reason other than he could, and hes mad because we supposedly tortured him? Wah wah you little bitch!

[Failed Bridge 0]

all I know is that the mother fucker ate Cooler Ranch Doritos non-stop from an article earlier this year. A guard that watched over Suddam at one point was interviewed and said that Saddam couldn't stop talking about his love for that product. It was a hilarious article

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

haha I remember that

 

Saddam will fuck up some Doritos

[2GOLD 0]

That was the torture...we stopped giving him Doritos after he was hooked on them.

We are some evil, cold hearted sadistic bastards.

 

Then we took away his cable connection and left him with poor 56k modem dial up. And we forbid him from using Yahoo IM after 2pm so he couldn't talk to his new online gf from Montana anymore.

 

It was a cruel life for him, a cruel cruel life.

[Guest Amy Ace]

Ya, he's always chowin-down on Doritos and Bon-Bons, when would they even find the time to torture him?

[Vyce 0]

I am under the impression he is trying to draw the Iraqi people into rebeling aganist the US forces who have been promoted as "evil" for the past 16 or so years

 

Call me crazy, but even supposing you're right, I'm really kind of doubting that the Iraqi people are going to uprise in anger over the Americans allegedly roughing up their former tyrannical dictator.

[2GOLD 0]

I am under the impression he is trying to draw the Iraqi people into rebeling aganist the US forces who have been promoted as "evil" for the past 16 or so years

 

Call me crazy, but even supposing you're right, I'm really kind of doubting that the Iraqi people are going to uprise in anger over the Americans allegedly roughing up their former tyrannical dictator.

 

This will be great if he quotes the movie 'Swimfan' by turning to his people and yelling, "YOU LOVE ME AND I KNOW IT!"

[Gary Floyd 0]

What cracks me up is some of the past complaints this guy has made. This, combined with the fact that he was stuffing his face with Dorritos, pretty much tells the world he's bullshitting.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Y'know, Saddam sounds like a cool person to hang around, he's just a really bad leader.

[Failed Bridge 0]

I think he requested Fruit Loops for breakfast every morning too. I'm going to have go back and find this article. It was great.

[theintensifier 0]

I know if I was a part of the Marine squad who found him, he would have legit claims.

[Twisted Intestine 0]

I know if I was a part of the Marine squad who found him, he would have legit claims.

 

Yeah, and you'd spend the next 20 years in prison -- Where they toss the salid.

 

Stop acting tough, you wouldn't do shit.

[theintensifier 0]

Why did you need to quote me when my message is right above yours ?

 

You don't know a thing about me son. If I was deplyoed to a country like Iraq for a long period of time, and I found Saddam, I wouldn't be too nice about getting him out of the hole he was cowering in.

[Golgo 13 0]

Salid?

 

I'm pretty sure Intensifier is a Marine. You fucked up.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Saddam's a bitch. Show me the scars, if he was tortured.

[AndrewTS 0]

all I know is that the mother fucker ate Cooler Ranch Doritos non-stop from an article earlier this year. A guard that watched over Suddam at one point was interviewed and said that Saddam couldn't stop talking about his love for that product. It was a hilarious article

 

 

I originally posted it.

 

And here it is, for anyone who missed it/wanted to read it again.

 

He liked Raisin Bran, but he *hates* Froot Loops, actually.

Edited December 24, 2005 by AndrewTS

[Gary Floyd 0]

all I know is that the mother fucker ate Cooler Ranch Doritos non-stop from an article earlier this year. A guard that watched over Suddam at one point was interviewed and said that Saddam couldn't stop talking about his love for that product. It was a hilarious article

 

 

I originally posted it.

 

And here it is, for anyone who missed it/wanted to read it again.

 

He liked Raisin Bran, but he *hates* Froot Loops, actually.

I remember when they had one of those fake interviews on Conan, that "Sadam" said that Fruit Loops are "Like Gay Cherrios". That is the funniest thing I've heard all year.

[NoCalMike 0]

Why did you need to quote me when my message is right above yours ?

 

You don't know a thing about me son. If I was deplyoed to a country like Iraq for a long period of time, and I found Saddam, I wouldn't be too nice about getting him out of the hole he was cowering in.

 

 

IF? Umm....last I checked you can put all those tough words to action by enlisting. Have Fun.....

[Golgo 13 0]

Salid?

 

I'm pretty sure Intensifier is a Marine. You fucked up.

[theintensifier 0]

It's cool man. For your information, I am a United States Marine.