Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2006 Bettis probably won't get in, as much as it saddens me. The hype will wear off after a year or so, and they'll remember him as a back that never really dominated the league and choked many times in the playoffs. Nonetheless, I think he deserves it because he redefined the role of a big back in the league. His stats aside, the fact that he became the prototypical bruising tailback for at least five years (97-2001) is enough to convince me he's a HoFer. Of course, I think DT deserves it, too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Man in Blak 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2006 I just wanted to say that it's nice to see some people that understand Bettis, much like Art Monk is simply a compiler, but Jerome will get in because he gives the voters warm, fuzzy feelings inside. This comment makes me scratch my head a little bit. I understand where the criticism may apply to Art Monk, but longevity and compiling yards for a running back is actually a very valid benchmark of greatness, in my opinion. There are tons of running backs that show promise but never hold up over a 10+ year career, just because you take so much punishment at that position. That Bettis has compiled so many yards over his career is really to be commended, if you ask me. (Not years, though, since the wear and tear on his body from year to year has been lessened with his recent usage as a short-yardage/timekill back). By the same token, I don't think that Bettis' TD contributions should be downplayed because of his role as the short yardage back over the last couple of years. Even though he may have received more opportunities due to his specialized role, he's still done something with them. Ultimately, I feel that getting those tough yards in goal-line or short yardage situations is a remarkable skill - if it was easy, then you wouldn't see short-yardage backs at all because everybody would be able to do it. One other thing to note: a majority of Bettis' playoff appearances have come during his time as a specialist, so that's why his yardage totals in the playoffs seem low. That doesn't excuse him from all of his clunkers, but it should also be taken into consideration when you compare him against somebody like Watters, who was the feature back for his team in most of his appearances. If you ask me, Bettis and Watters get in without a doubt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2006 Naw, only six of his playoff games came when he was a specialist (two last year, four this year). He miserably failed in '97 and absolutely shat the bed in '01, when he was on pace to win the rushing title before a late season injury. They called it a "strained groin" and he was expected to return from week 13 onward or so (I think he went down in week 10), but didn't make another start until the AFCC. Now, that might not have been his fault (Cowher can probably be blamed for starting him at all, considering his groin was actually torn, according to him), but that's a lingering sore spot for Steeler fans, who (like me) still believe that team was SB capable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dangerous A 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2006 Fuck this, Art Monk should be in. Nuff said. Fuck Peter King. Hall of Sham for me until Art Monk is in cause this is some bull fucking shit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Man in Blak 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2006 You're right, "majority" is probably a bit strong. I should have probably said "a good percentage", since that's still almost half. And, like I said, it doesn't excuse some of his other clunkers (which you mentioned). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naiwf 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2006 | Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD | +----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+ | 1993 ram | 16 | 294 1429 4.9 7 | 26 244 9.4 0 | | 1994 ram | 16 | 319 1025 3.2 3 | 31 293 9.5 1 | | 1995 ram | 15 | 183 637 3.5 3 | 18 106 5.9 0 | | 1996 pit | 16 | 320 1431 4.5 11 | 22 122 5.5 0 | | 1997 pit | 15 | 375 1665 4.4 7 | 15 110 7.3 2 | | 1998 pit | 15 | 316 1185 3.8 3 | 16 90 5.6 0 | | 1999 pit | 16 | 299 1091 3.6 7 | 21 110 5.2 0 | | 2000 pit | 16 | 355 1341 3.8 8 | 13 97 7.5 0 | | 2001 pit | 11 | 225 1072 4.8 4 | 8 48 6.0 0 | | 2002 pit | 13 | 187 666 3.6 9 | 7 57 8.1 0 | | 2003 pit | 16 | 246 811 3.3 7 | 13 86 6.6 0 | | 2004 pit | 15 | 250 941 3.8 13 | 6 46 7.7 0 | | 2005 pit | 12 | 110 368 3.3 9 | 4 40 10.0 0 | +----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+ | TOTAL | 192 | 3479 13662 3.9 91 | 200 1449 7.2 3 | +----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+ Seasons among the league's top 10 Rushes: 1993-3, 1994-6, 1996-6, 1997-1, 1998-9, 1999-7, 2000-3 Rushing yards: 1993-2, 1994-9, 1996-3, 1997-3, 2000-9 Rushing TDs: 1993-9t, 1996-6t, 2004-4t, 2005-10t Yards from scrimmage: 1993-3, 1996-4, 1997-4 Rush/Receive TDs: 1996-9t, 2004-10t Among the league's all-time top 50 Rushes: 4 Rushing yards: 5 Rushing TDs: 8t Yards from scrimmage: 12 Rush/Receive TDs: 21t He was only top 10 in rushing 5 times, and top 5 3 times. He scored about 40% of his TDs in his final 4 years in the league which was far more than he did during any of his best 5 best seasons yardage wise. It's not really that hard for a guy that goes about 270 to get a bunch of cheap 2 yard and in TDs. I think statistically he was solid, but his last few years really inflate his TD numbers, and even during his best days he only hit 4.0+ YPC 4 times. Bettis is the prototypical compiler at the RB position and to me he's a pre steroid Rafael Palmeiro who most people would have reluctantly put in because the sum of his stats was far greater than any of the parts. As long as he doesn't get in 1st ballot I won't complain, but when Thurman Thomas couldn't, there's no fucking way Bettis should. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0 Report post Posted February 7, 2006 Bettis' touchdown numbers suffered because of playcalling, also. Many times, he was inexplicably taken out at the goalline earlier in his career (never got that one) and particularly in the 1998-2000 and 2002-2004 years, the red zone offense was atrocious with or without Bettis. Also, some of those years, he was platooning with other backs (Amos Zereoue, mostly), which was in large part bad coaching. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted February 8, 2006 John Clayton who is a voter, said Thomas was the last man out, and had the old system been in place(veterans selections, not counting toward the maximum six selections). Than he likely would of gotten in. Also the problem many voters have with DT is they consider him one dimensional. , They're fuckin' awesome. EDIT: Upon further examination, you have more problems than a comma deficit. Would of? Than/then? Are you a third-grader? I'm going to end up employed by people in this vein, and it upsets me greatly. I want a 5% cut. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted February 8, 2006 Going back a few decades...Bobby Dillon should be in the Hall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted February 8, 2006 Help a brother out? Does every team have those one or two old school players they think belong in the HOF? Here it's Marshall and Tinglehoff. All the Marshall people do is bring up the games played streak. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted February 8, 2006 I dont know about other teams' old timers...but Dillon had more interceptions than Herb Adderly and Willie Wood who are both enshrined. He shares an NFL record with 4 picks in a game. 4 time All Pro. Blind in one eye. His biggest detraction appears to be that he played at a time when Green Bay was absolutely awful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert 0 Report post Posted February 8, 2006 Well, other players also had four picks in a game, so it's not that big. Dillon was around in times when there were few big-time WR's, the only big one that comes to my mind is Harlon Hill who played for Chicago and two 1,000+ seasons, but that was it. Not many rules for pass interference were enforced during his time, and you have alot of picks. I'd say Jerry Kramer who played guard, and Dave Robinson who played LB during the 60's. Robinson was big and fast, but never had the chance to shine after Nitschke retired. He was set to Washington by Captain Asshole or Dan Devine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2006 Jerry Kramer might be the most deserving guy not in the Hall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gert T 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2006 Help a brother out? Does every team have those one or two old school players they think belong in the HOF? Here it's Marshall and Tinglehoff. All the Marshall people do is bring up the games played streak. Here in Cincinnati its Ken Riley & Ken Anderson. I think Riley should be and Anderson a fringe. Many think if he would have won SB XVI against the Niners that would have pushed him over the top. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jwpeer 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2006 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2324836 Whisenhunt and bobby Petrino turned down the Raiders. I'm very happy for the steelers, this bodes well for our success next year, as Whisenhunt has done a great job with the offense. Not as happy for UPitt because Petrino is what makes Louisville so good. Art Shell probably going to be the coach of the raiders again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2006 My money's on Jim Fassel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lt. Al Giardello 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2006 I think they are gonna re-hire Art Shell, as Al Davis admits he's ashamed of when he fired Art Shell in the 1st place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarvinisaLunatic 0 Report post Posted February 11, 2006 Hot rumor apparently is the Ravens franchising Jamal Lewis and then trading him to the Vikings for Daunte Culpepper...although people in Minnesota are apparently saying its all one sided rumor coming out of Baltimore only and that the Vikes aren't interested. And quite frankly, Im not either. Another QB would just set the Ravens back again. They need to stick with Boller for 1 more year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therealworldschampion 0 Report post Posted February 11, 2006 Art Shell will be coaching the Raiders again: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2326498 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted February 11, 2006 Rumor going out that the Jets will franchise Abraham (well that's not the rumor, they will); but they'll ship him out for draft picks, or Phillip Rivers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USC Wuz Robbed! 0 Report post Posted February 11, 2006 San Diego wont let Rivers go now that Brees is hurt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted February 11, 2006 The Chargers offered Brees a long term contract. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USC Wuz Robbed! 0 Report post Posted February 11, 2006 I hear from local media Rivers isn't going anywhere until Brees recovers from the injury and shows he is still the guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lt. Al Giardello 0 Report post Posted February 12, 2006 I'd really hate to be a Jets fan, Cena Writer get ready for a long season LOL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted February 12, 2006 It wouldn't be the first long season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted February 12, 2006 What no Pro Bowl thread? Seriously why do they still play this game? I think any player who doesn't pull out of the game is out of their mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UZI Suicide 0 Report post Posted February 13, 2006 Manning is playing like it's a playoff game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarvinisaLunatic 0 Report post Posted February 13, 2006 Ray Ray doesn't wanna be a "Ray"ven anymore But it says something that the best offer they've gotten was a 2nd round draft pick. I guess he stays. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lt. Al Giardello 0 Report post Posted February 13, 2006 wow only a 2nd rounder for Ray Lewis? He hasen't declined THAT much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarvinisaLunatic 0 Report post Posted February 13, 2006 wow only a 2nd rounder for Ray Lewis? He hasen't declined THAT much. Well the rumor on Ray was that they were interested in working a trade for Ricky Wiliams since it was thought that he wanted to go to Miami. But apparently, like the Jamal for Cullpepper trade, all the trade rumors are coming out of Baltimore with no real truth to back them up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
