Hamas wins big in elections

[Zorin Industries 0]

Hamas wins majority

 

Theres the blackest of ironies that Bush wanted democracy in the Middle East and this is what he gets. With this and Sharon's stroke were in dangerous uncharted territory, i'm interested to see what happens from here on in

[Art Sandusky 0]

See, this is what happens when you force things.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

and..... WHOOPS! Well if it's what they want they'll get what they deserve I suppose.

[Justice 0]

See, this is what happens when you force things.

 

Force nothing. If they want that government, it's their deathwish. And I really don't remember us forcing it. They had already voted more than one time on a government and a Prime Minister.

[Vyce 0]

See, this is what happens when you force things.

 

Wow, you're right. I can't remember the Palestinians EVER throwing their support behind anti-Israeli / anti-Jewish terrorist before.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Yeah...all this "this is what Bush wanted" stuff is liberal spin bullshit. The election process has been driven by Israel and the Palestinians internally. Trying to paint this as part of US interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan is misguided at best.

[NoCalMike 0]

Yeah...all this "this is what Bush wanted" stuff is liberal spin bullshit. The election process has been driven by Israel and the Palestinians internally. Trying to paint this as part of US interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan is misguided at best.

 

 

So in hindsight, what you are trying to say is that our intervention has made one damn difference? Welcome Aboard, Comrade

[Guest InuYasha]

Israel wants to get rid of Anti-Israeli terrorist groups.

Hamas wants to destroy the Jewish state.

 

Get out your umbrellas, because the mother of all shitstorms is about to start.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Yeah...all this "this is what Bush wanted" stuff is liberal spin bullshit. The election process has been driven by Israel and the Palestinians internally. Trying to paint this as part of US interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan is misguided at best.

What? This isn't what they wanted, it's just yet another negative development that can be attributed to their short-sightedness. They honestly didn't expect this to happen, and that's the scary part. It's a side effect of the current anti-western feelings being in overdrive, and naturally it would happen with a group of people who consider themselves cornered due to the west and its plopping a country full of people from another religion right in the middle of where they were living at the time. Radicalism is simply the most visible and powerful ideology in the Middle East in this brave new "post-9/11 world," and saying that us invading a country in the middle of the region isn't going to make our chief allies guilty by association is trying to plug up your ears and pretend that it isn't happening. Kinda like the folks in charge do.

[Eclipse 0]

I don't know much about the situation in the Middle East, but I do know that Hamas wants Israel wiped off the map, and with their election, it's one step closer to a HUGE ALL OUT war in that region.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

When I quoted "this isn't what Bush wanted" I was referring to people talking about Hamas winning.

 

Bush wasn't calling for or driving the elections in Palestine (though obviously the administration supports them). The media is trying to paint this as "Bush forced them to have elections, and look how it backfired on him" which is just total spin.

[Justice 0]

Kotz, you're talking out of your ass. Palestine has been drifting closer and closer towards the radical side for a while now. To call this a 'backfire' on our part is basically taking away all responsibility from the Palestinian people: These were the people who had Arafat as their leader for how long? There is no one responsible for this but those who voted for fucking Hamas. Honestly, after this, I'm getting to the point where they should just be fucking shelled off the Earth. God...

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

This definitely IS NOT a backlash against the West by the Palestinians. The reason Fatah got voted out is because they have long been a corrupt organization that no longer has any moral clout among the Palestinian people. In this election Hamas had a better organized force on the ground to bring out the vote and talked about issues the Palestinians cared about such as healthcare, education, poverty reduction, etc. Hamas also has a massive social network to help Palestinains, something that the corrupt Fatah has failed to achieve. If this election is a backlash against anything it is a backlash against the corrupt Fatah movement that Yasser Arafat left behind.

 

Also, I find it funny that political pundits are now calling for a return to the Camp David agreement in 2000. If the Palestinians WANTED peace then they would've signed on because Barak was offering them a state that included all of Gaza, 90% of the West Bank, autonomy over the Temple Mount, a shared capital in E-Jerusalem, and the right of Palestinian refugees to return ANYWHERE in the Palestinian state except for pre-1967 Israel. However, the Palestinians in my mind don't want to make peace with Israel. They want to drive them into the sea and out of the Middle East completely which I think is also personified in this election.

 

Then again, the 'Palestinian' people already got their state in the 1920s when Israel was created by the British for the Jews and Trans-Jordan was created for the Arabs so if the "Palestinians" really want a state they should go to Jordan because that's where they are supposed to be. Might sound cruel, but that's just history.

[2GOLD 0]

What is really bad here is if Palestine does declare war on Israel, Israel will aim the guns at EVERYONE in the region. There is no way this ends peaceful. Hell, Israel gave up nearly everything to put an end to this it seems and it was never good enough because they weren't the type of "people" who were supposed to be on that land.

 

There is only one way all the trouble in the Middle East ends: Either everyone in Israel is dead or Israel kills everyone else. Cause the two sides will NEVER like each other, it's just never going to happen. Which is a god damn shame but it's looking more and more like that is the final reality.

[buffybeast 0]

Then again, the 'Palestinian' people already got their state in the 1920s when Israel was created by the British for the Jews and Trans-Jordan was created for the Arabs so if the "Palestinians" really want a state they should go to Jordan because that's where they are supposed to be. Might sound cruel, but that's just history.

 

 

Do you hear yourself? Israel was created by Britian at the expense of the Palestinians who were already living in the area. So it's ok for some foreign power to tell you to leave your home and go live someplace else?

 

On topic, the shit is about to hit the fan. George Bush does want the Middle East to be a stable democracy. That's not some liberal bullshit, it is the truth. Of course, the Fatah party did this to themselves for all of their corruption and infighting.

[Special K 0]

Do you hear yourself? Israel was created by Britian at the expense of the Palestinians who were already living in the area. So it's ok for some foreign power to tell you to leave your home and go live someplace else?

 

Let's not go back to this.

 

 

I think Bush's next policy should be to spell it Palestein just to piss them off.

[Justice 0]

Do you hear yourself? Israel was created by Britian at the expense of the Palestinians who were already living in the area. So it's ok for some foreign power to tell you to leave your home and go live someplace else?

 

Huh? First off, you are wrong: Israel as we know it was created in 1948 by the UN. It was still called Palestine, and all the Balfour plan ever did was say that there would be a 'National Jewish State within Palestine', not actually Palestine itself. Secondly, they weren't 'forced to leave their homes', ass. No one was forced anywhere: The Arabs living there simply opposed the idea of a Jewish homeland and Jewish immigration. When Israel was founded in 1948, there was a hugely generous offer given to the Arabs, and they turned it down.

 

So get your facts straight, okay?

[Vyce 0]

I think Buffybeast needs some learnin'. Time for someone to break about the "myths / facts about Israel" again. Who used to do that? Wasn't it you, Justice?

 

The reason why trying to paint this as a failure of Bush or the Bush policy is liberal bullshit is because 1) the administration wasn't involved in these elections in any meaningful way (other than, before the elections, maybe saying, "Hey, good to see them using democratic means to vote for their leaders"), and 2) even supposing that the Iraq war never happened, THIS WAS INEVITABLE. This result - Palestine going further towards extremism - was almost a foregone conclusion the moment Arafat was dead and in the ground. As wretched of a human being as he was, his death only allowed the even more militant aspects of the Palestinians to assume power in the wake of his death.

[Justice 0]

Naw, it was Slapnuts, I believe. That's just basic stuff that I listed.

[Vyce 0]

Aw, my apologies. Kind of sad to say this, but I'm afraid he may need to bring that gimmick back.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

the KKKonservatives are back!

[Special K 0]

Nope. There's conservative and liberal, then there's fact an fiction. I'm a liberal, but Israel is in the right in pretty much every way in the conflict.

[Art Sandusky 0]

It isn't like this radical wave wasn't there until we sent a single soldier off. It HAS been there forever in Israel, which we knew very well, which is why my outrage is directed at anyone who's shocked. It's just that it goes in line with what's happening all across the region. Iraq elected a religious coalition, Iran's got a dude who says the Holocaust was a hoax (and oh yeah, they 180'd on the nuclear program soon afterward), the Saudis said today that we should expect higher gas prices, and Syria is also a potential trouble-maker. The place has always had a huge potential for this stuff, but the LAST thing we needed was something that could galvanize a lot of that sentiment and breed conflict, but we went and invaded Iraq anyway. It's not exactly if A, then B, but our presence there provides a ready amplifier for radical ideals spreading.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

The Iraq issue is completely separate from the Palestinian elections. The Palestinians were sick of the Fatah party not getting anything done for them, now that they basically have autonomy from Israel (at least more than ever before), so they went with the only alternative they saw. At least that seems to be what the analysts who know the region are saying.

[BruiserKC 0]

In the words of the Rock..."IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT AMERICA DOES!" All we've heard for years is that it's America's fault for this, America's fault for that...blah blah blah yakety smakety. It's not America's fault there are Islamo-fascists right now preparing to wipe Israel off the map. This is like Hitler and Germany all over again. They blamed everyone for their problems and made Europe believe that if they just gave them what they wanted they'll leave us alone. Look at what happened.

 

Hamas is the same way...only a little bit slicker than the Nazi party. Took power legally, so now they'll eventually believe they'll have a mandate to continue the jihad against Israel. I think Israel is going to stand pat, the people will no longer support land for peace and I wouldn't be surprised if Netanyahu eventually comes back to power if Sharon is unable to continue.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Hamas is the same way...only a little bit slicker than the Nazi party.

No evil regime can be as slick as the Nazis.

[BruiserKC 0]

They're doing something right to be in power right now. And most of the media seemed to overlook the fact Hamas is dedicated to wiping Israel off the face of the earth and are being duped into thinking they'll be less militant.

[Justice 0]

It isn't like this radical wave wasn't there until we sent a single soldier off. It HAS been there forever in Israel, which we knew very well, which is why my outrage is directed at anyone who's shocked. It's just that it goes in line with what's happening all across the region.

 

Across the region? Very little has really changed, at least, due to us. Outside of Iraq, it's hard to find something that has changed because of us.

 

Iraq elected a religious coalition,

 

I'm sure this is supposed to lead to the Civil War that was supposed to happen in March of 2004... I mean May, of 2003... I mean, January of 2005, I mean...

 

Ah, whatever. Wait and see what actually happens. I'm not sure if this coalition is quite as radical as the pre-2003 government, but whatever. I'd like to actually see where they go with it before judging it.

 

Iran's got a dude who says the Holocaust was a hoax (and oh yeah, they 180'd on the nuclear program soon afterward),

 

They've always had an extremist sort of President, against many of the people's wishes. It doesn't help that they boycotted elections there, which lead to getting the extremist in office. But I guess that's the US's fault. *shrug*

 

the Saudis said today that we should expect higher gas prices,

 

In other news, the sun rose today...

 

and Syria is also a potential trouble-maker.

 

...And then the sun set.

 

The place has always had a huge potential for this stuff, but the LAST thing we needed was something that could galvanize a lot of that sentiment and breed conflict, but we went and invaded Iraq anyway. It's not exactly if A, then B, but our presence there provides a ready amplifier for radical ideals spreading.

 

Radicals were always being bred there. They've been teaching them that in academies opened up by fundamentalists all over the region. Do you honestly think that if we had not gone into the region, those academies would be shut down, or that Fundamentalism would be waning? 9/11 kicked Fundamentalism into overdrive when people saw what it could do, not our presence in Iraq.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

I'm not exactly overreacting to the election of Hamas just yet. I want to see what they are going to do in power and if they learn that negotiations with Israel is going to have to happen if they ever want to get a state. However, if Hamas doesn't renounce its beliefs that Israel should be wiped out, that they should never negotiate with Israel, and that Jews caused the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, World War I, and World War II then I will be worried.

 

Also, once again, this has NOTHING to do with America. This is purely a domestic issue among the Palestinians and their digust at Fatah although I guess some could make the claim that America's policy statements against Hamas may have increased their "street cred" a little bit for the Palestinian people, but I don't think that's enough to sway an election.

 

A little off topic, but the Christian Science Montior has an op-ed piece several days ago that said we should consider making a truce with Osama bin Laden......looks like the good ol' Munich Pact mindset is back people!

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Good luck with the shelling. Don't forget your goatleggings.