If you can put the blame on 1 person for the decline of the WWE...

[Guest Rrrsh]

HHH.

 

WWE can survive shitty writing, shitty wrestlers, and even Vince's shitty side projects.

 

However, if every rising star that shows a glimmer of hope gets pedigreed back to midcard hell, we're stuck with that stagnant pile of a ME scene we have now.

 

Perfectly said. You look at the biggest booms, when Hogan and Austin were making all their money. There was plenty of shit angles and storylines. Cartoonish garbage in the 80's and CrashTV bullshit aimed at morons who watch South Park in the 90's. Workrate was the shits in 98 and 99. Same goes with 85 and 86.

 

Nothing mattered, because Main Eventers became Main Eventers if they were over. And were given every chance possible to make the most money possible. That is not the case now, and it wasnt the case in 98 till the demise of WCW in 01.

[humongous2002 0]

I blame Vince for being so out of touch with wrestling fans and being too senile to realize that HHH shouldn't be main eventing another Mania.

[Wrestlefreak 0]

I blame the fans.

 

Your right, the fans(marks not smarks) accept pretty much every aspect of the WWE product without demanding impovement.

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

I blame Vince for being so out of touch with wrestling fans and being too senile to realize that HHH shouldn't be main eventing another Mania.

 

HHH is almost if not their biggest star right now.

[Ultra Violence 0]

I blame Osama Bin Laden. After 9/11 Angle was pushed as a pro-usa face. Prior to 9/11 WWE was moving away from evil foreign heel vs pro usa-face. which made them think of more creative booking ideas and caused them not to water down heel gimmicks when turning the guy face. Angle was a HEEL for being pro-usa amongst other things. The booking therefore was less contrived. Bin Laden is responsible for Hassan / Davari, Angle turning face before, La Res etc.

[Karc 0]

The Invasion was already one of the biggest flops in pro wrestling history before September 2001.

 

Angle has been a joke (character-wise) from day one.

 

And mid-carders don't matter anyway. At least now Vince is smart enough to no longer use war as a gimmick for the main event at a Wrestlemania (Slaughter-Hogan).

[iliketurtles 0]

I think on the grand scale it all points back to Vince, but I the one person I blame 100% on for the reason Smackdown being in the shitter is Brock Lesnar. WWE built everything around him and he just walked out leaving them high and dry. It's never been the same since.

[slimm44 0]

Al Gore (for creating the internet ) That's one of the downfalls to wrestling now-a-days

[Just John 0]

I think on the grand scale it all points back to Vince, but I the one person I blame 100% on for the reason Smackdown being in the shitter is Brock Lesnar. WWE built everything around him and he just walked out leaving them high and dry. It's never been the same since.

 

SD's been doing very well for quite a while. Yeah, the Lesnar thing stung right after he left and they entered the awkward JBL transition phase, but no way he's to blame for anything more than a year after leaving.

[razazteca 0]

Mr. McMahon for taking his personal vendettas public which of course carried over to tv which produced the worst television in the history of professional wrestling.

[iliketurtles 0]

I think on the grand scale it all points back to Vince, but I the one person I blame 100% on for the reason Smackdown being in the shitter is Brock Lesnar. WWE built everything around him and he just walked out leaving them high and dry. It's never been the same since.

 

SD's been doing very well for quite a while. Yeah, the Lesnar thing stung right after he left and they entered the awkward JBL transition phase, but no way he's to blame for anything more than a year after leaving.

 

Unless it was death or injury, Lesnar would of been the MAIN part of Smackdown for years. He was the franchise that Vince had built up. I understand what you're saying and I still think Smackdown sucks, but either way he's still had the effect on the company that I believe is still lasting to this day. Especially with Smackdown.

 

And Eddie's death has really fucked everything up which unfortunately no one thought would happen so it's more or less been a chain of events in my opinion that has lead Smackdown into the shitty shape it's in. But looking back at the last two years, the thing that started the show in a bad direction was Brock.

[haVoc 0]

Brock would've been moved to Raw at some point so Triple H could have that WM feud with him. Any guess' how that feud would have turned out?

[Steviekick 0]

I blame Steph. She's only gotten her job due to the fact that the owner is her daughter, and because of that she's been given the proverbial "get out of jail free" card everytime she has messed up.

[Steviekick 0]

...Double Post...

[Guest JericholicEdgeHead]

1. Stephanie.....her "vision" of what WWE should be and hiring the hollywood hacks to carry out her "vision" is killing the company.

 

2. Kevin Dunn....his "vision" of what the WWE should be is killing the company.

 

3. Vince McMahon....for letting Stephanie & Kevin Dunn's "visions" continue to kill the company.

 

Honorable mentions:

1. Vince Russo

2. Eric Bishoff

3. Triple H

[Enigma 0]

Vince McMahon, via Stephanie McMahon.

[Perfxion 0]

Some people in this thread are morons

 

WWF/E's ratings peak is in the summer of 2000. Russo was gone by then, Bischoff was NEVER in power, Triple H is just protecting his spot since he is one of the few pure main eventers the WWE has. Steph is a bad writer, but Vince can always say no. Dunn and Ross going back and worth helps nobody, but doesn't hurt anything, Linda is a pencil pusher, Rock would be stale and the show would still suck if he stuck around...

 

This leaves ONLY Vince as the sole cause of everything. Truman has a saying that lies very true when it comes to the WWE: "The buck stops here".

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

The Rock would not be stale, espically if he actually returned to the WWE in 2003 when he was a heel. Other then JBL I can't remember a better heel run in the WWE in the longest time.

 

But yeah I'd rather Shane McMahon be a writer instead of Stephanie, atleast he actually cares about it.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

Some people in this thread are morons

 

WWF/E's ratings peak is in the summer of 2000.

 

WWE's ratings peak was in 99, not summer 2000...

[Dangerous A 0]

Vince for me.

 

 

Steph, HHH, Dunn, Laurinitis, whoever the fuck, just do what they think Vince wants while trying to get theirs, because in the end, he has the final say.

 

 

So yeah, ultimatetly Vince.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

God. Blame God.

 

...Canada too...no, wait, don't blame Canada, blame yourself.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Here's the thing with Vince and the "final say" thing.

 

If you accept that, if you accept the bad, then you have to accept the good. You have to accept that Vince McMahon gets the credit for the booms in the 80s and 90s. Not Austin. Not Hogan. Vince gets it because Vince "ok'd " it.

 

I don't accept that.

 

Vince certainly gets some of the blame. But. If you took Vince out of the equation, the WWE wouldn't really get better, because Steph would still be in her position, the writing would still suck, and it's not like she's going to get fired any time soon. Worse, there's the possibility that she runs the whole company and things would get even WORSE.

 

Vince at least was successful. He has been in the same position for over 20 years and the company was successful at points in those 20 years. Even when it looked like he was out of his gourd in the mid-90s pushing clowns and farmers and monks, the company was still able to be successful under him. Vince at least has some perspective in regards to making money, though it is skewed and perverted.

 

Steph is just awful. Ok, blame Vince for putting her there in the first place, but she's been there for over 5 years now. FIVE YEARS. And she hasn't gotten better. SHE HASN'T GOTTEN BETTER IN FIVE YEARS. The writing has been pure SHIT and that is HER responsibility in the company. The promos SUCK. That's not Vince okaying it, that's Steph. Steph could bring Vince something BETTER to ok. She hasn't. She isn't. There was a distinct drop off in quality of television when Kreski left and Steph came in. That is not a coincidence. Vince was there for both and the shows were better when there was someone who had an idea about putting together a wrestling show. Steph thinks wrestling should be cute and campy and that's what we've been getting for the past few years. It sucks. It really fucking sucks. It's her fault, she gets the blame. To put it on Vince is ignoring the actual problem in the company - and that's writing. That's creative. That's her fault.

[Guest Samantha]

Only one person can be blamed... Vince. It's his company and he calls the shots.

[Promoter 0]

Stephanie Mcmahon gets the blame. RRR is right. Vince has proven himself and doesn't need to anymore. How many people would have the same drive after what he's done. I blame Ted Turner for letting wcw go down the toilet too, but he is like Vince in that he proved himself business-wise in other things. Stephanie Mcmahon should be power hungry and SHOW that she can top her father, but she has failed miserably. Shane Mcmahon too. Vince worked from the bottom to take the wwe to the top. I'm quick to blame Vince as much as the next guy, but Stephanie and Shane Mcmahon have been given an empire and are taking it for granted because dad is around or don't care because they are filthy rich already. The Invasion was shit thanks to soap opera writing. An angle that was built-in for years. The nWo angle was shit and that was also built-in since 1996 when Hall and Nash showed up on Nitro. I won't even get into how creative they REALLY could have got with Hogan, Hall, and Nash returning in 2002 playing off real life. They tanked the wcw promotion worse than wcw imo because at least guys like Booker and Goldberg and company were over when they were in the promotion. They tanked the splitting of the titles and brands. Stephanie's claim to fame was WM 17 and that could really be given credit to Kreski setting the foundation 6 months in advance. Is that coincidence too? Vince gets major blame for not using REAL talent for the brands like Heyman and going for family.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I'm not a big Shane fan, but if you look at the division he heads and what he is in charge of, he's one of the most successful ones in the company. However, a good part of that is being in charge of the right stuff.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And if you look at Austin vs. Rock, that did not work because of the storyline and the writing. The storyline for that sucked, as did the storyline coming out of it. It worked because of the two guys involved and the awesome production team that put together the My Way video.

 

Actually, WM 17 in general had pretty crappy storylines going into it. Benoit/Angle was put together at the last minute, the TLC 2 was based on the novelty of the TLC and little else (scooping Spike Dudley and Rhyno brought a lil more excitement to it), HHH/Taker was your standard Taker WM build, Jericho and Regal was just bad, I can't even remember anything for Test/Eddie, the hardcore match and the 6 man was just strung together, the womens title was crap... the only "storyline-driven" feud that would be classified as successful would be McMahon vs. McMahon.

[Promoter 0]

Thus, why I state that Kreski laid the foundation for WM 17. It was kind of obvious, Rock/Austin was going to headline since it was reported that was the match they wanted for WM 16. I think only Heyman wanted HHH/Austin for the main event and in hindsight it might have been the better idea how things went down post Mania 17(Maybe I'll get into that later). The Rock/Austin storyline was okay in some aspects such as the sit-down interview, but that's not really creative doing the storyline as much. I still don't understand why Debra was put into the story and then taken out. You're right about some of the storylines, but I'm sure some of those matches might have been pencilled in months in advance. The Mcmahon vs. Mcmahon storyline was also somewhat lucky with the wcw aspect thrown in. I admit I do like the stuff with the website such as the power rankings. I wonder what Shane could really do if given the chance and also the drive to do it. Stephanie is just a waste.

[Anya 0]

Everyone forgets how bad the Rock/Austin build was because the match ended up being so good. There wasn't even that much, the match was only actually officially set like 4 weeks before WM. I've always wondered what was with that Debra story. What was the point? Why was it suddenly dropped? Was that all they had planned or was someone smart enough to realize it was stupid? Besides that last interview the good parts of the build where the confrontations. The Armageddon match, the Rumble, that Raw match where Austin turned to see Rock preparing for the Rock Bottom....all effective just because of those two guys.

 

The story of Rock/Hogan and the Rock/Austin 18 rematch were horrible too.

 

 

 

I blame Steph. Survivor Series 2000 was the beginning of the end. That ridiculous car dropping stunt. Ever since she took over my interest has gone down until where it is now. The only enjoyment I get from WWE now is making fun of it. I used to be angry about losing a hobby but I've gotten over it.

[Dangerous A 0]

There are some great points in here for both Steph and Vince as the 1 person to blame and if you argued for either one, it'd be hard to say you were totally wrong.

 

I think in the end, there isn't 1 person to fully blame for the decline of WWE. Vince, Steph, HHH, they all have a hand. You can argue which one of them has the most responsibility on their plate and if you said Vince or Steph, you wouldn't necessarily be wrong. I think it's almost impossible to have a black and white answer for this because the 3 people I mentioned in this paragraph along with others like Shane, Johnny Ace, Kevin Dunn, Undertaker, etc have a small or large hand in the decline.

 

I remember hearing Bruce Mitchell and Wade Keller talking about who is the 1 person responsible for the demise of WCW. You could point to ATM Eric, Hogan, Nash, Russo, Sullivan, Jamie Kellner, etc. But the reality is they all had a part in it. As much as Eric gets credit for getting WCW to compete, Ted Turner's wallet and blank checkbook should share in that credit. Hogan helped with getting star power back on WCW, but he was also a lockeroom cancer and self promoter who had his agenda first. Even a guy like Russo wasn't completely responsible. Russo in WCW was like taking a sick and dying patient to a doctor and the doctor making the patient terminal instead of better.

 

Point is, in both cases, multiple people had a hand, either big or small, in the decline or destruction of their company.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Well duh.

 

Vince has stupid ideas, gives the stupid ideas to the writing team, who actually manages to make the stupid ideas even stupider, and do so in a way for the wrestlers -the vast majority of whom can't act or deliver the promos they write, which they can't seem to understand- to make seem, believe it or not, even stupiderer. If Vince just gave the stupid idea to the wrestlers to do with how they like, the shows wouldn't be AS stupid as they are now.

 

The Debra thing was just to stir up artificial conflict between the two.