Two teens beat another one to near death...

[cbacon 0]

Except that isn't the case in any other violent crime. If you plan to go kill a guy, go over his house and do it, it is a completely different sentence than if you guys get in a fight and his is killed during it. Dude is still dead. Only in one case, its first degree murder and another is manslaughter. Thats just law dude.

 

I don't see what this has to do with anything. There is no intent to kill someone if your talking about manslaughter. I was referring to the fact that the motive is irrelevant in a case like this.

[Guest Princess Leena]

So their actions would be less of a crime based on what the 16 year old may or may not have done ? Fine logic.

 

If the person they're beating up was committing a crime. Yes.

[gWIL 0]

Unless this 16-year old was raping or torturing this 12-year old girl, these two kids should receive the death penalty.

 

So their actions would be less of a crime based on what the 16 year old may or may not have done ? Fine logic.

 

 

Vigilante justice is understandable if he was trying to rape the girl. If he was, he deserved worse than what he got.

[cbacon 0]

The guy had a pipe shoved up his ass. Where the fuck do you draw the line? How does this in anyway excuse thier actions other than some sort of twisted notion of revenge?

[Justice 0]

No, ripper has a point.

 

Murder 1 and murder 2 are two different crimes, with two different sentances.

 

They measure how dangerous a person is, and punish it. What other explaination do you have for two punishments for two murders?

 

This is the same thing. A jilted lover kills one person, a racist kills one race.

 

Bullshit. Such a double standard.

 

What if the jilted lover killed his ex, but she was black and he was white, or she was white and he was black? He calls her a "Nigga/Honky", and suddenly it goes from a passion-related crime to racially-motivated. The ambiguity of what you suggest is horrid.

 

The law is colorblind. It works both ways: It shouldn't take into account your race when you are accused of a crime, nor should it take into account the race of a victim. Crime is crime, treat it that way. When you start moving into 'racial crimes', you only depend racial differences, which is what you are trying to avoid here.

 

It's not like it's an active deterrent or anything (As I'm sure a lot of you are against the idea of the death penalty as a deterrent): Anyone crazy enough to kill because of someone's race isn't gonna chicken out at the possibility of an extra few years. And on "Recividism": We don't the law to please the public. When that happens, we get OJ Simpson. Mob rule is not justice, and thusly we should not think about adding a few years because some people might be angry at a few whiteys killing a black guy.

 

By the by, this is one of the things I fully agree with C-Bacon on in just about all his posts so far. Amazing, eh?

Edited April 30, 2006 by Justice

[NoCalMike 0]

If the guy was dragged into the yard of the house where the party was going on, and everyone just stood around watching it and not helping or stopping the brutality, then they should all be charged with negligence.

[Justice 0]

If the guy was dragged into the yard of the house where the party was going on, and everyone just stood around watching it and not helping or stopping the brutality, then they should all be charged with negligence.

 

Yeah, for real.

[TSA09 0]

Well from what our news has now reported is that the mother of the girl in question was at home sleeping while her daughter was throwing a party.

 

If the victim dies, the two boys will then be charged with a hate crime. As of right now he is still in a coma.

[EricMM 0]

I'm not saying hate crime status should be automatic, I'm saying it should be proveable.

[Justice 0]

How do you prove it? What if someone doesn't say anything racist during the beating, but people may have heard him say racist things on other occasions? What if the guy called this guy a 'nigger' all the time, but had good, long-standing relationships with other african-americans without problem?

 

No offense, but it's not provable. Anyone can be made to seem racist and racially motivated. It's not that hard to gather a few people who have heard you make a few racist comments and other things like that and cobble together a decent case against you. The entire thing detracts and distracts from the original crime: Someone is dead, and the accused must be proved guilty or innocent. I'd rather not see every multi-racial murder trial break down into racial semantics rather than focusing on the crime at hand.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

And on "Recividism": We don't the law to please the public. When that happens, we get OJ Simpson. Mob rule is not justice, and thusly we should not think about adding a few years because some people might be angry at a few whiteys killing a black guy.

 

I don't think that's what recidivism means.

[TSA09 0]

I'm not saying hate crime status should be automatic, I'm saying it should be proveable.

 

And that's the thing, they are saying the boys shouted racist things, I do not think it can be proven they did unless an eye witness can testify to it. I think the reason they aren't persuing the hate crime now is because they said, the punishment would be the same. If the boy dies, then the hate crime would be worth more time in jail.

[snuffbox 0]

Unless this 16-year old was raping or torturing this 12-year old girl, these two kids should receive the death penalty.

 

So their actions would be less of a crime based on what the 16 year old may or may not have done ? Fine logic.

 

 

Vigilante justice is understandable if he was trying to rape the girl. If he was, he deserved worse than what he got.

 

Where has it been reported that there was an attempted rape? Or is that just a hunch that you continue to cling to for no apparent reason?

[haws bah gawd 0]

I fully expect the two guys that did this to end up in counseling and serve next to no jail time. I'll have to steal a line from George Carlin in regards to this one. If you need counseling to be taught that you dont need to go around trying to shove a large cumbersome object up someone's asshole, youre probably a little too fucked up to be a free member of society. I say throw the guys in prison for life. There's no sense in what they did to that poor guy. Now, I will agree with the rest of you in that, IF the guy was trying to rape the girl, he got everything he deserved, and got off easy.

[Darth Vader 0]

Just because prosecutors are seeking a hate crime doesn't mean it's going to happen. DA's are going to always seek the harshest punishment for any crime, that's their job. But it's not up to them if this is a hate crime, it's up to 12 jurors and they might find that while there are some crimes that are racially motivated(lets not be stupid here) that this was not one of them. That's why EVERY case is tried individually and EVERYBODY has the right to a fair trial.

[Justice 0]

And on "Recividism": We don't the law to please the public. When that happens, we get OJ Simpson. Mob rule is not justice, and thusly we should not think about adding a few years because some people might be angry at a few whiteys killing a black guy.

 

I don't think that's what recidivism means.

 

Ah shit. Late at night for me.

 

Still, I don't think Recidivism is a proper argument. If that's the real crux there, why not just kill them so they don't get the chance? Isn't arguing like that moving towards the Death Penalty, to not allow for a chance for them to commit the act again?

 

Secondly: 'Vigilante Justice' is a paradox in terms when it comes to civilized society. Stop the person from committing the act, then allow the police to handle it. Ask Reginald Denny about 'Vigilante Justice'.

Edited May 1, 2006 by Justice

[Art Sandusky 0]

In South Carolina, the state assembly is mulling over a death penalty for second time child molesters, the rationale being (as it is any time that sexual predators are in the news) that they're incurable and thus extremely dangerous no matter what. I see people who do the same with homosexuals, people of another race, or some other minority segment of the population as being on the same level, incurable. Now that's a double standard, and the only reason anyone could say otherwise is that it's a hell of a lot easier to pick out a motive in a child raping than it is if any random white guy happens to savagely beat a hispanic guy to within an inch of his life.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I've always thought that if we can't execute rapists or child molesters, maybe we could just exile all of them to some remote island for the rest of their lives.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Death penalty for beating the shit out of someone? Life in labor camp? Life in prison? Christ. Just let them get fucked in the culo for a couple decades, and call it fair.

[Jingus 0]

Yeah, all these "Let 'em fry/let 'em rot" sentiments are completely ignoring how our penal system is based upon the idea of rehabilitation, that a person can atone for their past sins and learn to become a better human being through punishment. It doesn't always work, hell it doesn't seem to work half the time, but it's an ideal that I don't think we should sacrifice.

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

Even in place of something that might be a better solution?

 

If I was to pound on someone for something, I wouldn't torture them

[iggymcfly 0]

Death penalty for beating the shit out of someone? Life in labor camp? Life in prison? Christ. Just let them get fucked in the culo for a couple decades, and call it fair.

 

Seriously. It's not like they're getting off scot-free if they don't get the death penalty. I think after 20 years of "federal pound you in the ass prison", you've probably been punished pretty severely for whatever you were stupid enough to do one night. Now, if they got probation with no prison served or something, that would be ridiculous, but if they're charged with attempted murder (rather than sexual assault), I'd think that their sentence would probably be relatively severe.

[TSA09 0]

More news is coming out about this. Now there is a report coming forward that states when David Tuck, now 18, was 14 he and two other adults beat the shit out of a 50 year old hispanic man in front of a gas station right near his home, which is in the same neighborhood as the recent attack. The man came forward after he heard the story and he has his court documents that state David Tuck was one of the men that beat the shit out of him while calling him a "spic, dirty mexican, and we kill people like you." The 2 adults went to federal prison for violating his civil rights and the man was under the impression that David Tuck was still in juvenille detention. People in the DA's office claim to have not known about this because Texas law states that juvenille records are sealed. The court documents released to the public by the Harris County DA's office have whited out Tuck's name, but the hispanic man had a copy for his own records and Tuck's name is in his court report.

[EricMM 0]

Wait, TSA, you need to link these names.

 

Was that one of the kids that beat that tean up?

 

If so...

[TSA09 0]

Sorry, yes it is one of the teens accused of beating the shit out of the other kid.

[EricMM 0]

So, okay, again, this proves that people who do crimes motivated by hate are more likely to repeat!

[snuffbox 0]

But what if the Mexican was trying to rape the gas pump?

[2GOLD 0]

But what if the Mexican was trying to rape the gas pump?

 

He should be thankfully they didn't shove it up his backside and fill him up.

Just give them 15 years and call it a day.

[Jingus 0]

Okay, now knowing this other fact DOES establish that the one kid has a provable history of committing violent crimes against people of a particular race. (Although it still leaves the door wide open for the other perpetrator.) But I still think that hate crime laws are bullshit. Just sentence the little psychopath to a whole buncha years in prison because he almost killed a guy, end of story.

[Justice 0]

So, okay, again, this proves that people who do crimes motivated by hate are more likely to repeat!

 

And what about a Serial Killer?

 

Repeat offenders, no matter the motivation, are sick individuals. Once again, trying to put more time towards a motive is simple more time ignoring the crime itself.