Why Do People Think We're Not Cool

[BruiserKC 0]

I've been watching wrestling since the late 70s...basically for more than 3/4s of my life I have been a pro wrestling fan. When most of my friends and people I've known in my life have turned away from it, I still watch RAW on Mondays, Impact on Thursdays, and tape Smackdown to catch it (where I live no UPN affiliate so it has been on Sundays on our NBC channel after the news).

 

There have been times when wrestling was cool to watch and was "in". During the rock-n-wrestling days all the kids had their favorites. During the days of NWO and Attitude we hung out at the water cooler on Tuesdays to talk about the happenings of the previous night. Right now wrestling is in that down cycle and no one talks about it as much.

 

What gets me, is especially how the media treats wrestling. To mainstream America, wrestling is a joke, a sideshow, a carnival act. The closest I've ever seen to wrestling being treated respectfully is when Stephen A. Smith had some TNA stars on his show.

 

Examples I saw on Sunday...on The Sports Reporters on ESPN, Mike Lupica refers to LeBron James' taunting of Gilbert Arenas at the FT line in game 6 of Cavs/Wizards..."That move makes pro basketball about as classy as pro wrestling." Then, on the Surreal Life finale, Florence Henderson tells Maven that she hopes he'll get out of the wrestling business and find something better to do. Granted, Maven sucked as a wrestler and his only real contribution to the business was making the Unibrow fashionable...but why is wrestling seeming to be two steps up from prostitution?

 

I get it...wrestling is pre-determined. It's not a sport, although the wrestlers are very athletic. But TNA gets ripped for trying to make wrestling more of a sport, and WWE tries to mainstream its product and make people aware that is also entertainment. But WWE gets clobbered as well for that carnival aspect of it.

 

Is there something that wrestling fans can do to make people realize that it is cool to watch wrestling? I'm used to the eyes rolling of people, including some of my friends, when I'm watching RAW or Impact. But is there a way to make it more appealing to the mainstream or more respectable at the very least?

[CanadianChris 0]

Vince McMahon has become the personification of pro wrestling in most people's eyes, and Vince McMahon makes pretty much anyone's list of The 10 Sleaziest People On Earth.

 

As long as that's true, and wrestling's not "in", there's really nothing that can be done.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

I think also that folks look down on what is presented as a competition despite being worked. I once pointed(not in these words) out to co workers who mentioned that to me that James Bond is worked, yet you can go and enjoy a James Bond movie. In fact, I think when we wrestling fans are confronted with such a scenario, we should also point out that wrestling is an art form of sorts, a drama, and how many Hollywood actors out there work every week, in and out unless hurt, have to pay for their own travel for the most part, never use stuntmen, take chairshots directly to the body, and even take a razor blade to their own forehead to bleed? None. Jackie Chan is the closest actor to a pro wrestler. and even he gets retakes and doesn't have to be on the road full time. I think once more people understand it on those terms, there will be a greater appreciation for wrestling. It would also help if Vinnie Mac didn't have the biggest wrestling show on the planet, because he seems determined to make me embarassed to be a fan.

[Hawk 34 0]

Alot of it has to do with the fanbase. The stereotype is true, it's why advertisers avoid wrestling when it's not "hot". The average income for WWE fans are among the lowest of all network programing.

 

NASCAR was able to shed it's country redneck trailer park image by getting respectability and proving to reach out to a really wide spectrum of fans. WWE isn't going to do that, The Rock is the peak of mainstream credibility for WWE. WWE will never reach that again. Hogan was viewed as a cartoonish larger then life persona and generally viewed as a punchline.

[10 Pounds 0]

I'm a fan of wrestling, but any fan can tell that most the the time, wrestling is ridiculous. For any great wrestling match or moment, you'll have ten times a stupid angle or character.

 

 

Here are the major things I heard people say when they criticize wrestling :

 

- It's fake.

- It's gay, two muscular oiled-up men touching each other.

- The characters are ridiculous. For the mainstream viewer, wrestlers aren't characters like Steve Austin or The Rock, they're gimmicks like Hulk Hogan fighting Nikolai Volkoff and the Iron Sheik.

- Some of the storylines appeal to the lowest common denominator and are downright embarrassing. When you see HHH screwing Katie Vick or Mae Young showing her fake boobs, are you telling your friends this is the reason you watch wrestling ?

 

 

Wrestling isn't without its great moments, but the majority of fans can't tell the difference between work and shoot. They don't know why Guerrero and Benoit celebrating at WMXX or Ric Flair returning in '98 is a great wrestling moment. The boom during '97-'01 was a fad that was short-lived, just like all the other fads in the past years like Pokemon, Backstreet Boys or Tamagotchi. Wrestling was considered cool, but things can't stay cool forever.

[Just John 0]

The media is blatantly hypocritical when it comes to bashing wrestling. Shows like CSI, 24, etc are all much faker than wrestling but are viewed as quality entertainment. They get stuntmen and multiple takes, and they still know how the ending is supposed to turn out before they start. There's no changing the media's attitude, unless enough people start liking wrestling to care if the media bashes wrestling.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

How is it hypocritical? Those shows ARE quality entertainment. As mentioned in this thread, for every "quality" moment in wrestling, you have the Stinkface, Vince vs. God, the Hassan angel, Katie Vick, Vince making out w/ the divas, bra & panty matches, Lawler's "PUPPIES!" schtick, the Jim Ross proctology skit, the "Kiss My Ass" club skits, etc.

 

The only way to change the media's attitude is to change Vince's attitude.

[EricMM 0]

World Wrestling Entertainment is so not cool it's ridiculous.

[BruiserKC 0]

Another thing I tend to notice...wrestling personalities that go mainstream get shunned by the wrestling fans eventually. When Hogan branched out to TV and movies, he was a sell-out. When the Rock went to the movies, same accusation. Stacy Keibler finishes runner-up to "Dancing With the Stars" and pretty much she's off the wrestling radar.

[EricMM 0]

She's off the wrestling radar because she's about to quit...

 

See, the thing about being a star is that it doesn't hurt as much, and the travel is a LOT better.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Well, is that really unfair though? I mean, how many matches has Rock wrestled, or how many episodes of RAW has Stacy Kiebler been on since they both got mainstream acceptance? I don't think it's so much shunning as "out of sight, out of mind."

 

As far as what else you said originally, I agree that wrestling is seen as "un-cool" right now. But, I think a lot of that is WWE's fault. I mean, look at the average episode of Monday Night RAW:

 

- Vince McMahon talking about how he's bigger than God, and making people kiss his ass (literally).

 

- Women doing an imitation of wrestling, in bra and panties, hitting each other with pillows.

 

- Ridiculous '80s style charicatures like Umaga, who appears to be some sort of Samoan caveman. (For the record, I kind of like Umaga, but it follows my point).

 

- Kane involved in an angle tied to his movie, where he hates a certain release date, and beats up on his co-stars.

 

- Matches that end in screw job finishes, week after week.

 

How are people supposed to respect wrestling when WWE clearly doesn't respect the intelligence of their own viewers? In Japan, wrestling is generally seen as being legitimate, but part of that is because for the most part, promotions like New Japan and NOAH conduct themselves like legitimate sports leagues. Sure, they have angles and storylines, and even occasionally something offensive, but that stuff never dominates the show or overtakes the wrestling in the ring.

[EricMM 0]

Seriously, if you can't see why Umaga makes wrestling uncool, I dunno.

[haws bah gawd 0]

People can't get past that whole "it's fake" thing. I still get asked how I can sit there and watch 2 guys pretend to beat eachother up. My girlfriend and I were watching wrestling at some point at my Grandma's house last weekend. My Grandma's neighbor, who visits often, walked in and said "You two know its fake, right?". That's got to be the most irritating thing to be asked when I'm sitting there trying to enjoy a match.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I just say "No, it's all real!" and leave it at that.

[Just John 0]

How is it hypocritical? Those shows ARE quality entertainment. As mentioned in this thread, for every "quality" moment in wrestling, you have the Stinkface, Vince vs. God, the Hassan angel, Katie Vick, Vince making out w/ the divas, bra & panty matches, Lawler's "PUPPIES!" schtick, the Jim Ross proctology skit, the "Kiss My Ass" club skits, etc.

 

The point I was trying to make is that the only argument the media has against wrestling is that "it's fake." They hardly ever cite anything specific as to why they don't like it.

 

And I agree the best way to respond in person is to act really shocked and/or insist that it's real. Eventually the person realizes how dumb they sound saying "it's fake" to a wrestling fan.

[JimmyHendricks 0]

Pro Wrestling was accepted in the mainstream in the late 90's because they finally came out and admitted that it was fake, and took a more realistic approach. That made all of the "it's so FAKE" arguements shut up, because well, the WWF wasn't shy about it anymore.

 

Sure, you still had the Undertaker sacrificing victims to the hell God or whatever, and you still had Kane blowing up shit, but HHH was a "real" character, so were Rock and Austin. You had characters like Mankind who went out there and fell through tables, but then Mick Foley went on the Today Show and charmed Katie Couric, showing that it indeed, was all fake and under the mask, Mankind was a nice guy. People forgot that they were supposed to bitch about it not being real, and actually started to watch, and appreciate, the performers.

 

Then WCW folded, and Vince had no reason to compete, and push the envelope anymore, and he stopped caring what his fans think. So now we have goofballs like Umaga, horrible angles where Vince is wrestling God, and insulting storylines like JBL and Rey. Do you blame the media for shitting all over it? Can you really defend this crap against a non-wrestling fan? Now, it's back to it being "all fake" because YES, Vince being "stopped" by God's lightning is incredibly, incredibly fake. We know Umaga isn't from the jungle of Samoa or whatever. In 1999, Umaga would go on Jay Leno and talk about how fun the character is to play. Now, we are supposed to buy that he is an animal man or whatever the fuck he's supposed to be. Give me a break.

 

And as someone else said, a lot has to do with what people think of Vince McMahon the person. When he gives interviews, he's basically the same asshole he plays on TV. He yells at Bob Costas and THAT is what gets played over and over again. He's the face of the company, and it's a bad face to have. He could go out there and be intelligent, articulate, and win over a Katie Couric or whoever. But he doesn't. Much like Hogan in the 80's going on talk shows and doing his goofy "Whatcha gonna DOOOOOO, bruther?" gimmick, people respond with "How can you watch this stuff?" It's the same reason why in 10 years (or hopefully less than that), when "Desperate Houswives" is off the air, people won't be talking about how great it was. They'll be talking about how horrible and dumb the whole show was because of the outrageous factor of it.

 

So, all in all, wrestling isn't accepted by the mainstream because well, it doesn't want to be. Vince calls THAT "Attitude", I call it stupidity because he could be making a lot more money if he stopped being a circus and started being a performance.

[Maztinho 0]

Why all the Umaga hate? He's a wildman, with dreads.

 

You'd think that JBL's dissing on Rey being a Mexican, and the entire Rey channeling Eddie stuff would be seen as more over-the-top, and embarrasing than a mid-card Samoan doing the traditional Samoan gimmick. Umaga is one of the bright spots of my wrestling week.

 

Vince playing Mr. McMahon during his interviews is what KILLS any main stream credibility that the WWE could garner. TNA is trying, but they just don't have the fire power yet to "legitimize" wrestling to the general population. Wrestling will probably always be seen as a freakish sideshow, with bouts of tempermental fancy from the population as a whole.

 

Face it, we are social outcasts.

[Wrestlefreak 0]

I agree that part of why wrestling is not accepted by the mainstream is because most people(who don't watch it) can't get past the fact that it's predetermined. However, I also think that people looking in from the outside can't even respect wrestling as an entertainment medium, largely due to WWE who, most of the time, don't give their own fans a respectable product.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

Y'know what amazes me? My mom hates wrestling with a passion, btu she was lazy and watched Smackdown with us last summer and when Eddie died, she couldn't understand why I was upset because she had gotten fooled for a minute there. For all of the goofiness in that feud, Eddie and Rey pulled it off very well, and perhaps it's poor performances and a lack of connection with the crowd that's hurting them too. Everyone can relate to a man who loves his son and wants to keep him, and people are fully aware of the screwy adoption rules in the States(or, i think they are). Does that make any sense?

[razazteca 0]

World Wrestling Entertainment is so not cool it's ridiculous.

Let me put it this way Vince McMahon = Don King both took the "sport" to the main stream but are seen as sideshow barkers/used car salesmen. How the hell are you going to take the crazy old man that looks like Buckwheat or the roid raging egomaniac in Vince McMahon seriously?

[Epic Reine 0]

Great topic.

 

Man, I remember back in '98 when I wore a DX shirt, people would compliment me ALL the time. I would walk around and have people yelling "Yo, nice shirt bro" while giving me crotch chops. It was a cool time ot be a wrestling fan.

 

Same thing with the nWo shirt. If someone saw you with an nWo shirt then you were the man. What happened to those days?

 

Alot of people keep using the "it's fake" argument and yes it is fake but so is everything you see on TV. No ordinary person can do what they do, it takes a lot of dedication and skill to do it, if you don't like it fine, but at least respect what these people go through every day.

[Guest stylz]

With all due respect,

 

Have you ever been to a live wrestling event?

 

90% of the people in the crowd are the living embodiment of UNCOOL. Honestly. The few times I went to the ACC (and I think Toronto as a city has a great population, an amazing mix of ethnicities, and is definitely a world class city) I was in awe of the mostly overweight, redneckish crowd that was in attendance. My shoes probably costed more than what my entire row's outfits were worth. That being said, I can image how crowds in parts of the U.S. would seem to non fans...

 

Not to diss wrestling fans, because I've been a fan as long as I can remember...but...that's reality.

 

J

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

It's true. Most wrestling fans I've encountered at shows (barring the one RoH show I saw at Framingham State, War of the Wire) have been either mentally retarded or just flat-out trash. I think I've come across two or three that weren't an embarassment to be caught chatting with outside of a bar or at a convenience store when you run into 'em. And, of course, they were smarks.

 

So, basically, until RoH takes over mainstream wrestling...we're fucked.

[The Buzz 0]

I was going to write a long post about Americans being snobs, and a good portion of America also being the stereotypical wrestling fan(fat, nerd,redneck). But to be honest who gives a damn what everyone thinks. Wrestling is still a big business regardless of the current drought. Many fine athletes have come and gone and given the fans memories. For every fan with the memory of a goldfish there are fans who will remember all of classic matches from the 80s and 90s.

 

I'm trying to break into the business later this year, and I was wondering myself whether or not wrestling would break into the mainstream big time like football one day. The answer I came to is that as long as I enjoy watching it, discussing it, and eventually doing it then it doesn't matter what anyone thinks.

 

Just my two cents on the matter.

 

-Buzz

[King Cucaracha 0]

Wrestling in general is a niché market. It's at it's very core flamboyant and OTT. Most non-wrestling watching fans when they think of wrestling think of Hogan and the stereotypical 'muscular guys in oil and pink spandex' and think of it as 'kids stuff'. That's not going to change, no matter how many boom periods the business goes through.

 

I remember the times when virtually everyone at school would not just talk about wrestling, but would get involved in 24/7 style hardcore battle royals. Looking back, was it cool? Not really.

 

Is there something that wrestling fans can do to make people realize that it is cool to watch wrestling?

 

No. The people with that opinion aren't going to care enough to let someone try and change it. The best way to go about it is to not care that they don't care.

[Golgo 13 0]

As mentioned, as long as Vince doesn't have the dignity to treat himself, his wrestlers, his company with respect, why should anyone else? He makes a number of half-hearted gestures in attempting to make them into a legitimate, respected business, then presents the TV product in a totally different light. And to most of the world and America especially, the WWE is the be-all, end-all of wrestling and is all they know.

 

I used to be a proponent of "movies and TV shows are fake too" but the more I think about it, it doesn't fly anymore. I blame kayfabe primarily. Case in point, Kane at a premiere in wrestling tights. That's just ridiculous. You don't see real actors and actresses doing that shit. To most of America when they do that and then go on TV, clearly cooperating on moves, it looks silly, like kids essentially dressing up and playfighting.

 

This shouldn't even be up for debate. Many educated fans are just that, they know the ins and outs and have a sense of perspective, but they're a fraction of the audience and we have to accept it. As long as wrasslin' presents itself as an overblown carny sideshow with all the dignity of a strip club or used car lot along the highway, that's who they'll attract and that's all wrestling will be. The negative attitude about wrestling has been reinforced by decades of this stuff. Decades. It's futile to try and change minds on the matter. You'll just be wasting breath and time.

[Guest burth179]

I keep hearing this "Vince McMahon brings it down" argument, but I'm not buying that fully. I agree he has something to do with it, but not all..

 

Before Vince took over people looked down upon wrestling just as much as they do now. And, it can be argued that it was much more real back then than it was after Vince took over....

 

People inherit traits from their parents, if their parents tell them that wrestling is fake and stupid, people aren't going to give it a chance....

[Golgo 13 0]

I'm not saying he's the sole reason, but I think the image WWE projects plays a significant part, perhaps more than any other. Vince has been the face of American wrestling for 20+ years and WWF was really the first promotion to get such huge worldwide exposure. Yeah, there were regional companies, occasional television specials and weekly programs in the past for some promotions, but none on them were ever on the scale of WWF.

 

He could have taken small steps if he really, truly wanted to. His version of the formula used for years previous is the one ingrained in the minds of much of society and is the one that helped in some way to foster negative attitudes.

 

Like I said, he's not the only reason this is happening. Maybe simple differences in society is a factor when talking about America, Japan, Mexico and Canada and how the styles were traditionally presented to their respective cultures. It seems as if wrestling isn't nearly as villified in any of those for some reason, despite each being just as staged.

[Guest wildpegasus]

It's true. Most wrestling fans I've encountered at shows (barring the one RoH show I saw at Framingham State, War of the Wire) have been either mentally retarded or just flat-out trash. I think I've come across two or three that weren't an embarassment to be caught chatting with outside of a bar or at a convenience store when you run into 'em. And, of course, they were smarks.

 

So, basically, until RoH takes over mainstream wrestling...we're fucked.

 

Well, if ROH took over than we'd really be screwed.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

It's true about most wrestling fans at the average WWE show. The wife and I went to a WWE house back in the fall of '04, and it was total hicksville. This was in Madison, WI...but most of the fans look like they had just rolled off the hay wagon.