Comments which don't warrant a thread

[humanoid92 0]

Well it depends on how you interpret the discussion. Maybe Rey is run-down now but does Cena now approach what Rey did at his peak? And Michaels is obviously not as good as he used to be now either. But does Cena now approach Michaels at his peak? Ditto for Flair, Benoit, HHH, etc. Of course the only reason this even becomes an issue is because the business is so screwed up now and everyone stays around in the same role for 20 years, but that's a whole other thread. (Or, considering which thread we're in, it's at least a whole other page.)

[The Truthiness 0]

and like I said he's the best wrestler in the world today

 

 

It's like watching WP post all over again, except this time it's Cena instead of Undertaker.

 

would you rather it be Jingus hating Cena for all the wrong reasons like at the other place?

 

 

I think it's funnier to watch someone hate than it is to watch someone bust a nut yelling "OMG GREATEST WRESTLER EVERRRRR"

Never said he was the "OMG GREATEST WRESTLER EVER". I think I've been specific in saying he's the best "Worker in the World" today.

[Mecca 0]

as a Mysterio mark, I can safely tell you there's no way he's a better worker than Cena.

 

Maybe 10 years ago he was, but these last couple of years haven't been the greatest for Mysterio. If anyone's matches follow the same formulas, it's his. Horrendous booking aside, he's declined in a big way.

 

He's lucky he can even walk right with all the major knee surgeries he's had.........hell in 2001 he said he couldn't do any moves where he landed on his feet off the ropes or flying out of the ring........

 

I don't personally have an issue with Cena or think he sucks or anything like that I just really dislike the God booking like he's 80's Hogan it's hard to do that now when he has to wrestle so many different guys in a year........he's running out of opponents.....I think they do run the risk of burning people out on this guy.

[Timmy8271 0]

Well it depends on how you interpret the discussion. Maybe Rey is run-down now but does Cena now approach what Rey did at his peak? And Michaels is obviously not as good as he used to be now either. But does Cena now approach Michaels at his peak? Ditto for Flair, Benoit, HHH, etc. Of course the only reason this even becomes an issue is because the business is so screwed up now and everyone stays around in the same role for 20 years, but that's a whole other thread. (Or, considering which thread we're in, it's at least a whole other page.)

 

You can't compare Rey Jr. in his peak to Cena now. Rey was just a crusierweight when he was in his peak. Let's say his peak was 96-99. He was over and having great matches week in week out. But was he as over as Cena is now? No. Cena/HBK might be a better argument but again, it was a different time. Back in 95-96, the only good talents were Bret and HBK with a few exceptions here and there. Now with Cena, He can have good matches with guys like Edge, Orton, Umaga even Khali. With Cena, it's not about workrate, it's about Charisma.

[Mecca 0]

It depends what your definition of over is.....Mysterio's peak came in a time when he was working for WCW in their peak when they had great viewership........better than what Raw's is per week right now.....where HBK's peak came in a very downtrodden low rating period for the WWE.

 

There is also the argument that world wide Mysterio was more well known and had more people overall care about him.........due to more people seeing him and other contributing factors.

[Hawk 34 0]

How someone is booked holds very little meaning when analyzing someone's performence. Cena could phone it in as some others in his place have done but he doesn't. He performs his craft exceptionally well and continues to improve as most talent is apt to do. People forget how young Cena still is. He's shown a remarkable improvement over the years.

[humanoid92 0]

When I see people praise Khali, I don't get it. Do you really enjoy it when this guy comes on to your TV screen

 

Yes. He's not a danielson or anyone like that but I do find him entertaining. He's a freak show. He's like that whore at a frat party that's drunk as hell and you watch to see what she will do next.

 

Cena as a worker is better than :Mysterio, Punk, Joe, and most everybody. Worker means more than Workrate. Cena is one of the best people to get a match over with the crowd. Just watch his matches compared to Punk's. Of course this all has to do with booking but WWE is booking him right.

 

If you really do like Khali, more power to you. I personally have never enjoyed the big huge monsters. Like I said, guys like him have their place. I just wouldn't expect that from the typical smark (not you personally but generally speaking) that has spent years bashing the likes of other slow-moving big men, fat guys, and freak shows.

 

Mysterio, Punk, and Joe are three guys. 1) Rey has been hurt for a long time now, 2) I admitted I haven't seen much of Punk, and 3) I didn't mention Joe. The point remains- is Cena honestly #1 in the company? Really? Not one person is better? I'm not talking about a string of 3 PPV matches or Raw main events. I'm talking about ability.

 

I understand what you mean when you say that worker means more than workrate, but then you have to consider the following: Is Cena up against everybody in this debate or just the other main eventers? The way things are booked, Cena's match is always going to be the most important on the card. He's always going to get a lot of time. It's usually going to have heat. It's going to have the machine behind it. So are Batista, Umaga, Lashley, Khali, and the McMahons the only other competition in this debate? If so, yeah, Cena craps on them.

 

Or is it just about how good of a wrestler he is? If this was the '80s and there were MSG shows and Coliseum tapes and 15 minute draws on TV every so often, and the midcard got any sort of time whatsoever, a lot more guys would have the chance to be in the conversation. I mean if things were booked the way they are now when Hogan was on top, would you think Hogan was the best because he'd be the only one that got time and was pushed? Because then Savage, Perfect, Bret, etc. aren't even eligible for the conversation.

[Hawk 34 0]

n/m

[Mecca 0]

How someone is booked holds very little meaning when analyzing someone's performence. Cena could phone it in as some others in his place have done but he doesn't. He performs his craft exceptionally well and continues to improve as most talent is apt to do. People forget how young Cena still is. He's shown a remarkable improvement over the years.

 

Which is why I didn't say he sucks.......the things about him I dislike most are more WWE's fault than his. God push.......his occasional faux Rock promo........that's WWE's fault not Cena's.

[Timmy8271 0]

When I see people praise Khali, I don't get it. Do you really enjoy it when this guy comes on to your TV screen

 

Yes. He's not a danielson or anyone like that but I do find him entertaining. He's a freak show. He's like that whore at a frat party that's drunk as hell and you watch to see what she will do next.

 

Cena as a worker is better than :Mysterio, Punk, Joe, and most everybody. Worker means more than Workrate. Cena is one of the best people to get a match over with the crowd. Just watch his matches compared to Punk's. Of course this all has to do with booking but WWE is booking him right.

 

Mysterio, Punk, and Joe are three guys. 1) Rey has been hurt for a long time now, 2) I admitted I haven't seen much of Punk, and 3) I didn't mention Joe. The point remains- is Cena honestly #1 in the company? Really? Not one person is better? I'm not talking about a string of 3 PPV matches or Raw main events. I'm talking about ability.

 

I understand what you mean when you say that worker means more than workrate, but then you have to consider the following: Is Cena up against everybody in this debate or just the other main eventers? The way things are booked, Cena's match is always going to be the most important on the card. He's always going to get a lot of time. It's usually going to have heat. It's going to have the machine behind it. So are Batista, Umaga, Lashley, Khali, and the McMahons the only other competition in this debate? If so, yeah, Cena craps on them.

 

Or is it just about how good of a wrestler he is? If this was the '80s and there were MSG shows and Coliseum tapes and 15 minute draws on TV every so often, and the midcard got any sort of time whatsoever, a lot more guys would have the chance to be in the conversation. I mean if things were booked the way they are now when Hogan was on top, would you think Hogan was the best because he'd be the only one that got time and was pushed? Because then Savage, Perfect, Bret, etc. aren't even eligible for the conversation.

 

There are only a few guys more important than Cena right now. They are The Mcmahons, HHH(who's injured) and probably Lashley. Cena is more important than Khali and Umaga. Since Batista is on the C show, Cena is bigger than him. That doesn't mean cena is better but is more important in the wwe's mind.

 

I'm not the biggest Cena fan in the world. I liked him better when he was on Smackdown doing the Thuganomics gimmick. But i'm not going to deny the truth. Besides Vince, Shane and HHH, Cena is number 1 in that company. Just watch Judgment day 07. That crowd was dead for almost anything but when Cena came out, that crowd went crazy. They were hot for the whole match. If that doesn't prove he's a good wrestler, I don't know what does.

[Hawk 34 0]

When I see people praise Khali, I don't get it. Do you really enjoy it when this guy comes on to your TV screen

 

Yes. He's not a danielson or anyone like that but I do find him entertaining. He's a freak show. He's like that whore at a frat party that's drunk as hell and you watch to see what she will do next.

 

Cena as a worker is better than :Mysterio, Punk, Joe, and most everybody. Worker means more than Workrate. Cena is one of the best people to get a match over with the crowd. Just watch his matches compared to Punk's. Of course this all has to do with booking but WWE is booking him right.

 

Mysterio, Punk, and Joe are three guys. 1) Rey has been hurt for a long time now, 2) I admitted I haven't seen much of Punk, and 3) I didn't mention Joe. The point remains- is Cena honestly #1 in the company? Really? Not one person is better? I'm not talking about a string of 3 PPV matches or Raw main events. I'm talking about ability.

 

I understand what you mean when you say that worker means more than workrate, but then you have to consider the following: Is Cena up against everybody in this debate or just the other main eventers? The way things are booked, Cena's match is always going to be the most important on the card. He's always going to get a lot of time. It's usually going to have heat. It's going to have the machine behind it. So are Batista, Umaga, Lashley, Khali, and the McMahons the only other competition in this debate? If so, yeah, Cena craps on them.

 

Or is it just about how good of a wrestler he is? If this was the '80s and there were MSG shows and Coliseum tapes and 15 minute draws on TV every so often, and the midcard got any sort of time whatsoever, a lot more guys would have the chance to be in the conversation. I mean if things were booked the way they are now when Hogan was on top, would you think Hogan was the best because he'd be the only one that got time and was pushed? Because then Savage, Perfect, Bret, etc. aren't even eligible for the conversation.

 

There are only a few guys more important than Cena right now. They are The Mcmahons, HHH(who's injured) and probably Lashley. Cena is more important than Khali and Umaga. Since Batista is on the C show, Cena is bigger than him. That doesn't mean cena is better but is more important in the wwe's mind.

 

I'm not the biggest Cena fan in the world. I liked him better when he was on Smackdown doing the Thuganomics gimmick. But i'm not going to deny the truth. Besides Vince, Shane and HHH, Cena is number 1 in that company. Just watch Judgment day 07. That crowd was dead for almost anything but when Cena came out, that crowd went crazy. They were hot for the whole match. If that doesn't prove he's a good wrestler, I don't know what does.

 

 

No. That just means he's over. Although some people still don't want to admit that.

[humanoid92 0]

Well it depends on how you interpret the discussion. Maybe Rey is run-down now but does Cena now approach what Rey did at his peak? And Michaels is obviously not as good as he used to be now either. But does Cena now approach Michaels at his peak? Ditto for Flair, Benoit, HHH, etc. Of course the only reason this even becomes an issue is because the business is so screwed up now and everyone stays around in the same role for 20 years, but that's a whole other thread. (Or, considering which thread we're in, it's at least a whole other page.)

 

You can't compare Rey Jr. in his peak to Cena now. Rey was just a crusierweight when he was in his peak. Let's say his peak was 96-99. He was over and having great matches week in week out. But was he as over as Cena is now? No. Cena/HBK might be a better argument but again, it was a different time. Back in 95-96, the only good talents were Bret and HBK with a few exceptions here and there. Now with Cena, He can have good matches with guys like Edge, Orton, Umaga even Khali. With Cena, it's not about workrate, it's about Charisma.

 

But that's not the point. I'm not saying they were in the same position on the card. I'm talking about who is a better wrestler. Has nothing to do with pushes or drawing or main eventing. In 1990 the Ultimate Warrior was the WWF Champion and was over. Bret Hart was in a tag team and Bret Hart was a better wrestler. Cena is pushed as #1. This isn't debatable. But is he the #1 wrestler there is? That is highly debatable. And in my opinion, he's not even really close.

[RonL21 0]

Boy..Humanoid sure can explain his point....

 

I never looked at it like that...but i agree with the guy...More people were definetly being pushed back then

[RonL21 0]

Someone make a thread about this topic.....3 pages in the Comments thread warrants a thread in my book

[Timmy8271 0]

I don't think he's the number one wrestler per say but he's up there. I think the number 1 wrestler is HBK but I can see why some people might not like him. Let me ask you this, What determines being the number 1 wrestler? Is it mostly workrate? Charisma?

[humanoid92 0]

When I see people praise Khali, I don't get it. Do you really enjoy it when this guy comes on to your TV screen

 

Yes. He's not a danielson or anyone like that but I do find him entertaining. He's a freak show. He's like that whore at a frat party that's drunk as hell and you watch to see what she will do next.

 

Cena as a worker is better than :Mysterio, Punk, Joe, and most everybody. Worker means more than Workrate. Cena is one of the best people to get a match over with the crowd. Just watch his matches compared to Punk's. Of course this all has to do with booking but WWE is booking him right.

 

Mysterio, Punk, and Joe are three guys. 1) Rey has been hurt for a long time now, 2) I admitted I haven't seen much of Punk, and 3) I didn't mention Joe. The point remains- is Cena honestly #1 in the company? Really? Not one person is better? I'm not talking about a string of 3 PPV matches or Raw main events. I'm talking about ability.

 

I understand what you mean when you say that worker means more than workrate, but then you have to consider the following: Is Cena up against everybody in this debate or just the other main eventers? The way things are booked, Cena's match is always going to be the most important on the card. He's always going to get a lot of time. It's usually going to have heat. It's going to have the machine behind it. So are Batista, Umaga, Lashley, Khali, and the McMahons the only other competition in this debate? If so, yeah, Cena craps on them.

 

Or is it just about how good of a wrestler he is? If this was the '80s and there were MSG shows and Coliseum tapes and 15 minute draws on TV every so often, and the midcard got any sort of time whatsoever, a lot more guys would have the chance to be in the conversation. I mean if things were booked the way they are now when Hogan was on top, would you think Hogan was the best because he'd be the only one that got time and was pushed? Because then Savage, Perfect, Bret, etc. aren't even eligible for the conversation.

 

There are only a few guys more important than Cena right now. They are The Mcmahons, HHH(who's injured) and probably Lashley. Cena is more important than Khali and Umaga. Since Batista is on the C show, Cena is bigger than him. That doesn't mean cena is better but is more important in the wwe's mind.

 

I'm not the biggest Cena fan in the world. I liked him better when he was on Smackdown doing the Thuganomics gimmick. But i'm not going to deny the truth. Besides Vince, Shane and HHH, Cena is number 1 in that company. Just watch Judgment day 07. That crowd was dead for almost anything but when Cena came out, that crowd went crazy. They were hot for the whole match. If that doesn't prove he's a good wrestler, I don't know what does.

 

That was pretty much my point. Cena is the #1 guy on the #1 show. Likewise, I'm really not the biggest Cena hater in the world. I'm not saying he isn't over or selling merch. He plays his role pretty well. I'm just talking about from an in-ring standpoint. Hulk Hogan played his role extremely well and made zillions of dollars. Doesn't mean he was a great wrestler. I'm not talking about success or money drawn or whatever. Just talking about the guy's matches and in-ring wrestling ability. He's not brutal by any stretch. But there's no way he's the best.

 

As for the #1 wrestler issue, the only reason I mentioned that phrase was because he's clearly being pushed as the centerpiece of the show. He's the face of the company. Like Hogan once was, like Austin once was, etc. That's all I meant when I said he's the number one guy. He's the "main character." But best wrestler? In my opinion, he's not.

[cabbageboy 0]

Right now I don't know who is #1 or anything. The various rosters are so injury plagued and messed up that it is mindboggling. I mean is Cena clearly #1 on Raw when Lashley is seemingly on Raw as much or more and involved in a bigger angle?

 

I actually don't mind the Khali or Umaga type monster heels. I don't mind the roided up dudes or the really tall giants. I just hated the ultra fat fuck monster heels....seriously the main event scenes from 1993 in WWF and WCW to me were the nightmares that wouldn't end with Yoko and Vader on top. I know someone will defend them as workers (especially Vader) but it's just my own preference.

 

Anyway, Cena. If we're talking about the Raw roster at present then he may well be the best worker on the roster. But the roster sucks. Cena is having to carry Raw right now because there's simply nothing else. I have noticed him slightly moving away from his ultra goofy and stale spots, but he's really a deficient worker in some other areas. Some of it is very basic, stuff like the FU being a badly executed Death Valley Driver (just as Lesnar's F5 was a shitty TKO that wasn't done properly, and Orton's RKO is an badly done Diamond Cutter).

 

Cena is most at home in violent garbage brawls. The Umaga match, the JBL I Quit match, and so on. He can also take a beating from a heel on occasion. But the majority of his offense in a standard match? Eh.

 

Regardless of his work or overness, I think anyone would notice that Cena is ungodly stale at this point. I'm talking near the level of Backlund circa 1982-83 here, albeit more popular. What does it say when the most fascinating Raw has been since he arrived is the brief time Edge had the title in Jan. 2006, or maybe when RVD won it from Cena at ONS? I dare say it was more compelling TV because it was like the trapeze artists were not working without the net with RVD and Edge holding the belt. Well maybe with Edge you sorta knew he was just jobbing it back to Cena, but the RVD tite win was truly bizarro world and left you for the first time in a while not quite knowing what was next and who was going to win.

 

Take a look at the ratings from last year. Ratings hit 4.5 or so in Jan. 2006 when Edge had the title. Then dipped a bit in May under 4.0, only to rise up to 4.3 for the brief RVD run (I wonder if 4.3 in the doldrums of June is more impressive than 4.5 in Jan. during the Rumble build). But then they just put it back on Cena eventually and from Sept. to Dec. they went down and stayed in the 3.4-3.8 range. This shows two things: 1. People are more interested when someone else has the belt. 2. Cena is better off chasing the title rather than constantly holding it.

[muzz 0]

What an awful discussion.

[Perfection 0]

The thing with cena is that if you put any other wrestler into his character and gave him the never ending push like they have with him, they would likely be at or nearly as over as he is. im personaly sick of him being on tv all the time. seeing that stupid belt, seeing the same 5 moves over and over, hearing the same, lame and unfunny gay and feces jokes, and seeing the two worst finishers in the history of the business ( well maybe 2 and 3 behind hogans leg drop) i mean a glorified firemans carry and a STF that has about an inch of space between his fists and the guys jaw? are you kidding me? i almost wonder if he does this on purpose with the stf just to piss people off that dont like him.

 

maybe my view of him is biased somewhat because i actually like THE champion to be able to carry OTHER lesser talents to good matches as well as have the charisma. the cena deal is the same thing that i think that made me hate the WWF back in the 80s as a young wrestling fan because in many ways hes like hogan. tons of charisma but unless hes in there with someone who can carry him or its a brawl type of match, his matches/wrestling or his interviews just isn't that good or worth even getting the least bit excited to see. However, the lack of star power the WWE has at the middle to top right now really benefits someone like him staying where he is. the wwe has done a really bad job of making stars lately or maybe it just appears that way to me compared to yesteryear.

[Maztinho 0]

Some of it is very basic, stuff like the FU being a badly executed Death Valley Driver (just as Lesnar's F5 was a shitty TKO that wasn't done properly, and Orton's RKO is an badly done Diamond Cutter).

 

Oooh nerve hit. Nerve hit.

 

The F5 was nothing like the TKO. NOTHING Aside from it started from a standing fireman's carry. TKO the victim swung out behind the attacker, and the F5 the vic was tossed over the head. TKO lands like a Diamond Cutter (ish) and the F5 like a loose Complete Shot. Contrary moves. Not the same.

 

NOT THE SAME.

 

Rant over.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

What an awful discussion.

 

My thoughts exactly. We were just bashing DVDR for making stupid, outlandish statements, now there's people in this thread actually claiming Cena is the best worker in the world.

[King Cucaracha 0]

What an awful discussion.

 

My thoughts exactly. We were just bashing DVDR for making stupid, outlandish statements, now there's people in this thread actually claiming Cena is the best worker in the world.

 

I know. As soon as someone mentioned DVDR about 3 pages back (and by the way, this is why CWDWAT needs to be a lot more lenient, there's been about 40 new posts overnight about 3 different subjects which there's no point in replying to because people have long since moved on to other CWDWAT.) and how they're dumb for liking Mark Henry, all I could think of was the time last year when everybody on here tried to convince people Mark Henry had any redeemable qualities. And the past 3 months of UTSU's Khali love, which has somehow gone from "Leela's gimmick" to "every other post and serious, somehow".

 

 

and like I said he's the best wrestler in the world today

 

It's like watching WP post all over again, except this time it's Cena instead of Undertaker.

 

would you rather it be Jingus hating Cena for all the wrong reasons like at the other place?

 

Rather that than Anglesault.

 

"BUT I CAN SEE HIM THOUGH! HE'S RIGHT THERE!"

 

*shudders*

[Dandy 0]

When I said that booking was a big part of Cena's perceived greatness, I did not mean specifically that was the only reason he was thought of as being very good. I simply said that if you put others in that spot, and push them to the moon and allow them to overcome the odds like that, most would get a good reaction as well. Not every single person, but most with any talent at all could make it work. The fans have bought into the hype, and the push has been tremendous for Cena's career. Goldberg was pushed as a god and got a huge reaction from the crowd. He was a main eventer in the fans' eyes. What if a different wrestler would have been given that role and push?

 

Booking does matter, because if Cena were still performing good but was trading wins in the midcard and getting squashed by main eventers, his reactions would no doubt be lessened, and he would not be perceived as the best in the world.

 

Personally, I don't hate Cena at all, but I find his offense to be unbielevable in terms of putting away everybody with shoulderblocks, punches, and clotheslines. If he were to do more work on a body part from time to time, incorporate more strikes, and have more reversals, I could actually buy him as being the best. Right now, he just comes off as "brawler" to me, and that doesn't make me think of greatest wrestler in the world.

 

And as far as selling goes, Truthiness, I said he sells very well individually. For selling individual moments and moves, he does exceptionally well, and I agree that is a big part of what makes him an above average worker. However, he could have his knee, arm, leg, back, etc. completely destroyed through the course of a match, and then just ignore everything his opponent had built as far as psychology and the story of the match by forgetting about what had happened and moving into his usual arsenal. To me, the best worker in the world should be able to find a way to sell a severely damaged body part and still complete moves. This adds to the match, and makes him even more believable.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

So how about that 3 hour Raw on June 11th, eh?

[TheFranchise 0]

So how about that 3 hour Raw on June 11th, eh?

Hmm, sounds Nitroreffic.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

So how about that 3 hour Raw on June 11th, eh?

Got tickets bitches.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

The problem with the 3 hour specials is they often use that time to waste it, figuring that since they have 44 extra minutes of showtime, they can make non-wrestling segments go on forever.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Going back to the "Rey's prime was in WCW", I'd say he's better all-around now, plus more of a draw, than he ever was in WCW. Cena's the #1 guy in the company, but I'd put Rey #2.

[Perfxion 0]

Rey could have been a draw but the nWo angle kind of made it hard for anyone not named Sting, Jericho, or DDP giving a chance to draw if they were not wearing that black and white t-shirt. Rey in the mid 90s was one of the better wrestlers in North America at the time. Rey right now is a complete shell of himself. His injuries have turned him into the US version of Muta. Where his match style is different but the reason everyone cares is because he has very little of flash that first turned heads and had people caring about him.

 

Cena currently is one of the best on the roster. He has improved 1000 fold since he first one the title. He and about half of the roster need their gimmicks changed to stop the crap. All of Cena's problems come from the booking meetings. His Rocky like promos, his over use of dick/gay jokes, him never allowed to stay serious for more than 20 mins, his theme and outfit not fitting with the gimmick, his pimping of a garbage movie, ect. ect. But his PPV matches have all been great. I don't think a heel turn would fix the problems, I think if Cena just kept up the serious part of his gimmick with a new theme ALL fans would care.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Yeah, Cena would annoy me a lot less if he stopped wearing the same damn outfit all the time, and maybe got a new theme song.