Heroes

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I wonder what season 2 will be about? Will the Heroes all be in one place at the end of season 1 and season 2 is the fall out of what happened and decide where to go next, or will they jump right to being the xmen?

 

The writers have claimed that each season will have its own distinct storyline that also gets completely resolved in their respective finales so I'm expecting something completely different from Season 1's story.

 

Part of me wants to see a more 24-esque division of seasons, where there is time between seasons and we have to play a bit of catch-up. The other part of me doesn't want them to mess up the good thing they have going and totally halt it. But then again, I don't want everything to go along at LOST pace where they become Xmen in Season 3 after Season 2 just fucks around. Obviously, Sylar is going to be the main bad guy who gets it this season, and I imagine Linderman squeaks out for some of Season 2 (though it is hard for me to see McDowell stay on for an extended run) to at the very least be involved with the introduction of the season 2 threat.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Ripper, Linderman even used the same "half of New York" comment when talking about the explosion. Why not just say "most" or "all" of New York? Why half of all amounts when talking about a huge explosion? Because Linderman's dialogue is almost word for word what Ozymandius says. I don't watch 24 but I'm not debating that this particular "killing lots of people for the greater good" storyline hasn't been used before. Hell that was the real life justification for dropping the atomic bomb on Nagasaki and even that's referenced in Watchmen. It's just that Heroes and Watchmen are both so similar in genre and story that when Heroes decides to use this particular storyline, it just comes across as a straight up theft.

 

Thus Linderman all of a sudden being behind the blowing up of Peter is going against EVERYTHING that the show has shown us. his speech was "I know this is going to happen. I have known it for a long time. But I am going to allow it to happen because I like what is going to happen as a result of it." He is a fucking mobster.

 

Then explain why Linderman expects to take credit for it if all he's supposedly doing is sitting on his ass and looking at paintings (the future). Also, Linderman says that he wouldn't leave Nathan's presidency to chance. If all this is predestined to happen, why wouldn't he just show Nathan the painting of him in the oval office to show him that that's going to happen? His dialogue before showing the painting implies that he has some part in it.

[AmericanDragon 0]

How is taking the actual climax from Watchmen being "subtle?"

 

Because so far it has only been one scene in Heroes, where a guy with powers says that the explosion will kill "half" of New York. End of similarity.

 

Ozymandias had no superpowers. He was a retired masked crimefighter with above average intelligence and athleticism. He faked an alien attack that blew up New York in order to convince the world that we needed masked heroes or superheroes.

 

Linderman is a corrupt mobster that uses his nefarious influences to gain more power and such. The world does not know that once had superpowers (and still currently does, but the fact that he has powers differs him from Ozymandias). He "knows" about a person blowing himself up like a nuclear bomb. He wants it to happen because he thinks it will allow Peter to get to the White House and be Linderman's puppet. So far, from the previews, it shows that if this happens, the world will outlaw superheroes.

 

What are the common areas? One man states that "half" of New York getting blown up will allow him a personal gain, and in both mediums, the subject was "comic-book-style heroes." If he had said California instead of New York, would it have instead ripped off Lex Luthor's plan in Superman?

 

Great, now they're supposedly different because one has powers and one doesn't. Even if Linderman was a woman the story would still be the same. Again, everything Linderman has said to Nathan seems to imply that he has been involved in the event. Why would he even try to justify it to Nathan if it's simply just going to happen no matter what?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Because you can't leave things for fate to handle. The painting Isaac drew of Claires death, for example. The paintings don't tell truth, they simply show a moment in time. What is true one moment, may not be true the next.

[Ripper 0]

No. It didn't. Nothing he said implied he was behind it. It was a tragedy that he knows is going to happen and could easily be stopped. Watch the show. There was a reason it was such a big deal that they panned in on Nuke dude when he said he always wanted to go to New York. We know the peter gets nuke guys powers to blow the city up so its kinda important that they be in the same place. ALL of the things that are happening are leading up to that point and that is what the whole show has been about. Leaving nathans presidency to chance would be stopping the big bang and Nathan not being the thing that brings the world together thus insuring his presidency. Linderman KNOWS what is going on but is not causing it. If anything he is trying to stop the people that are trying to stop it, but that isn't him making it happen. The only reason you are saying Linderman is the cause is because you want this "they are stealing from the Watchmen" thing to fly just like you tried to do that 2nd generation of heroes thing earlier.

 

And they aren't different just because of the powers. They are different because the entire story is they are looking into the Comedians death and find about about Vierch's plan. In heros they get powers and one of them is going to blow up which they want to stop. The common thread was lindermans "for the greater good" speech which the only reason you know it is from Watchmen is because this is a show about superheros. If you DID watch 24 and watched Logan explain why he turned nerve gas over to terrorist , you wouldn't have drawn the same conclusion. For it to be a blatant rip off, the genre shouldn't matter.

[Dandy 0]

I really am finished discussing that subject with you. You can say you won if you would like to. We are getting nowhere. You neglected half of the points that I brought up.

 

 

Here is what it has been like so far:

 

 

"That new restaurant really blatantly stole from that old one there, didn't it? I mean, They started serving an all you can buffet twenty years ago, and this trendy new restaurant comes around using the same color pattern as the old restaurant, and then all of a sudden...here they are serving an all you can eat breakfast buffet!"

 

"The fact that they both serve breakfast buffets is about all they have in common."

 

"But the other one had it first!"

 

"True, and that might have inspired this new restaurant to do an a breakfast buffet, but they are not blatantly stealing from them. Lots of places have had the breakfast buffet as a signature of their menu. It's fairly common."

 

"No, no, no. You aren't listening to me. They are the SAME."

 

"No they're not. They both have a breakfast buffet, but this new restaurant has a totally different buffet. You are just focused on the fact that they have the same color pattern and they are in the same business."

 

"How can you say they did not intentionally steal the idea from the old restaurant?"

 

"I agree that the old restaurant came up with it before the newer restaurant. But they are hardly the first restaurant to use that as a staple of their menu. Like I said, you are focused on the fact they have the same color pattern for the restaurant. Everything else about the situation is different. If they had the same color pattern, were in the same business, but the newer restaurant had a dinner buffet and no breakfast buffet...would they steal be blatantly stealing from them?"

 

"Does no one listen to me? They are both using red as the color scheme!"

 

 

 

 

And with that, I am bowing out of this conversation. If everyone else does as well, we can get back to discussing Heroes without this petty argument.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I am still not convinced that Peter is the bomb. Peter had a whacky dream, isn't that all they are basing it on?

[Dandy 0]

I somehow get the feeling that Sylar will steal Ted's nuclear abilities but cannot control it like the hearing thing, and he will be the one that blows up. I think we are being led to believe it will be Peter, but in the end it won't be.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I still don't think they are going to blow up New York. The whole point of the season was to prevent its destruction.

[Dandy 0]

Oh, I think that, as well. But, I believe they will somehow contain it to where Sylar and perhaps only one hero will die in the blast.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I could see Hiro transporting a ready-to-go-nuclear Sylar to the future and leave him there to 'splode.

[AmericanDragon 0]

I really am finished discussing that subject with you. You can say you won if you would like to. We are getting nowhere. You neglected half of the points that I brought up.

 

 

Here is what it has been like so far:

 

 

"That new restaurant really blatantly stole from that old one there, didn't it? I mean, They started serving an all you can buffet twenty years ago, and this trendy new restaurant comes around using the same color pattern as the old restaurant, and then all of a sudden...here they are serving an all you can eat breakfast buffet!"

 

"The fact that they both serve breakfast buffets is about all they have in common."

 

"But the other one had it first!"

 

"True, and that might have inspired this new restaurant to do an a breakfast buffet, but they are not blatantly stealing from them. Lots of places have had the breakfast buffet as a signature of their menu. It's fairly common."

 

"No, no, no. You aren't listening to me. They are the SAME."

 

"No they're not. They both have a breakfast buffet, but this new restaurant has a totally different buffet. You are just focused on the fact that they have the same color pattern and they are in the same business."

 

"How can you say they did not intentionally steal the idea from the old restaurant?"

 

"I agree that the old restaurant came up with it before the newer restaurant. But they are hardly the first restaurant to use that as a staple of their menu. Like I said, you are focused on the fact they have the same color pattern for the restaurant. Everything else about the situation is different. If they had the same color pattern, were in the same business, but the newer restaurant had a dinner buffet and no breakfast buffet...would they steal be blatantly stealing from them?"

 

"Does no one listen to me? They are both using red as the color scheme!"

 

 

 

 

And with that, I am bowing out of this conversation. If everyone else does as well, we can get back to discussing Heroes without this petty argument.

 

And again you're trying to boil down the argument to something that isn't representative of it. Those two restaurants having all you can eat buffet are the same as Watchmen and Heroes both being about superheroes. It's trivial and no one would even attempt to say that either one is stealing from the other just based on those similarities.

[milliondollarchamp 0]

This is one of the best shows NBC has ever had on there Channel.

[Black Lushus 0]

This will be another side story, like "Company Man", and it will focus on Hiro and Ando traveling five years in the future, showing where the world will be if the explosion isn't stopped. We will see more of the future Hiro, last encountered in the episode "Hiros", this time as the country's most wanted terrorist. Nathan is the President of the United States, Mohinder is his Chief Medical Advisor, Claire will be a brunette, Matt will show a darker side of himself as Head of Homeland Security with The Haitian at his side, and Niki will become a stripper. It is not known if Jessica or Niki will be in control, but it is suspected that they will have been integrated into one personality. She will have a romantic relationship with Peter, who has a distinct scar below his left eye.[3] Sylar is still on the run, and a preview shows him about to kill Claire. People with abilities are being registered, tracked, and considered threats to society. The U.S. President is working on a "final solution" to bring an end to the heroes.

 

obviously, you sometimes have to take things from wiki with a grain of salt, but if it's accurate, certainly interesting...almost sounds like an Age of Apocalypse type story. In reference to next week's episode.

[AmericanDragon 0]

No. It didn't. Nothing he said implied he was behind it. It was a tragedy that he knows is going to happen and could easily be stopped. Watch the show. There was a reason it was such a big deal that they panned in on Nuke dude when he said he always wanted to go to New York. We know the peter gets nuke guys powers to blow the city up so its kinda important that they be in the same place. ALL of the things that are happening are leading up to that point and that is what the whole show has been about. Leaving nathans presidency to chance would be stopping the big bang and Nathan not being the thing that brings the world together thus insuring his presidency. Linderman KNOWS what is going on but is not causing it. If anything he is trying to stop the people that are trying to stop it, but that isn't him making it happen. The only reason you are saying Linderman is the cause is because you want this "they are stealing from the Watchmen" thing to fly just like you tried to do that 2nd generation of heroes thing earlier.

 

And they aren't different just because of the powers. They are different because the entire story is they are looking into the Comedians death and find about about Vierch's plan. In heros they get powers and one of them is going to blow up which they want to stop. The common thread was lindermans "for the greater good" speech which the only reason you know it is from Watchmen is because this is a show about superheros. If you DID watch 24 and watched Logan explain why he turned nerve gas over to terrorist , you wouldn't have drawn the same conclusion. For it to be a blatant rip off, the genre shouldn't matter.

 

Heroes and Watchmen being the same genre isn't proof that it's a blatant ripoff. It only adds support to it. I'm sure no one accused 24 of stealing because the "killing many for a greater good" was the only similarity. Now you have Heroes doing the same storyline. Both Heroes and Watchmen are about two generations of superheroes. Both of them are in the superhero/comics genre. Both of them are about investigating a plot that will lead to the destruction of New York. Both of them feature a supervillain who will use a catastrophic event for the greater good with the opinion that they will be remembered as heroes. Now how are all of those things combined on par with what 24 did? Again, I don't watch 24 but you can't seriously say that the similarities between Heroes and Watchmen are as small as the similarities between 24 and Watchmen, and therefore should be excused.

[starvenger 0]

I still don't think they are going to blow up New York. The whole point of the season was to prevent its destruction.

Or so we're meant to believe. It's like how Stormwatch #25 was published after #8 (or something), they went back to issue 9 and built towards #25. Or how DC jumped a year and has been filling the blanks with 52.

 

OMG HEROES RIPPED OFF JIM LEE!!

 

Ahem. The point is that we've seen only a glimpse of the future, but we don't know how we get there. Unless Dragon is correct, and Nathan and/or Linderman blames the whole thing on aliens.

 

 

obviously, you sometimes have to take things from wiki with a grain of salt, but if it's accurate, certainly interesting...almost sounds like an Age of Apocalypse type story. In reference to next week's episode.

Please. AoA obviously ripped off the Mirror Universe.

[AmericanDragon 0]

I still don't think they are going to blow up New York. The whole point of the season was to prevent its destruction.

Or so we're meant to believe. It's like how Stormwatch #25 was published after #8 (or something), they went back to issue 9 and built towards #25. Or how DC jumped a year and has been filling the blanks with 52.

 

OMG HEROES RIPPED OFF JIM LEE!!

 

Ahem. The point is that we've seen only a glimpse of the future, but we don't know how we get there. Unless Dragon is correct, and Nathan and/or Linderman blames the whole thing on aliens.

 

 

obviously, you sometimes have to take things from wiki with a grain of salt, but if it's accurate, certainly interesting...almost sounds like an Age of Apocalypse type story. In reference to next week's episode.

Please. AoA obviously ripped off the Mirror Universe.

 

Yeah, I really said Nathan and Linderman will blame the explosion on aliens.

[Dandy 0]

Stop feeding the argument, guys. He clearly ignored a major point I made through a question, and didn't respond because he couldn't answer it and still have a valid argument. You'll never win this argument with him, so let's just discuss the show.

[starvenger 0]

Yeah, I really said Nathan and Linderman will blame the explosion on aliens.

No, you didn't, but since you insist that Heroes is ripping off Watchmen, you've implied that that's what's going to happen.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Stop feeding the argument, guys. He clearly ignored a major point I made through a question, and didn't respond because he couldn't answer it and still have a valid argument. You'll never win this argument with him, so let's just discuss the show.

 

Your question doesn't make any sense. You asked if the restaurant took out the all you can eat buffet (bomb storyline) and kept the same color scheme (misc similarities between the two), would it still be considered a blatant ripoff? Well obviously it wouldn't and I never said the theft relied on the color scheme (misc similarities). I'm basing it on the same all you can eat buffet (bomb storyline) in addition to the same color scheme (misc similarities). My argument rests on the bomb storyline first and the other similarities as support. You're asking me to take out the bomb storyline. Since you made up some crappy story to try to "illustrate" the argument, I'll do the same.

 

Me: Heroes stole the bomb storyline from Watchmen and there are even more similarities after that.

 

You: Ok, but take away the bomb storyline. Is it still stealing now?

 

You can easily do that to any argument if you wanted but it isn't a valid way to defend your point.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Yeah, I really said Nathan and Linderman will blame the explosion on aliens.

No, you didn't, but since you insist that Heroes is ripping off Watchmen, you've implied that that's what's going to happen.

 

Um, no. I said they stole the same storyline. The bomb might not even go off in the end but that doesn't mean they didn't steal.

[Ripper 0]

[Heroes and Watchmen being the same genre isn't proof that it's a blatant ripoff. It only adds support to it. I'm sure no one accused 24 of stealing because the "killing many for a greater good" was the only similarity. Now you have Heroes doing the same storyline.

 

Both Heroes and Watchmen are about two generations of superheroes.

 

No, they aren't. Especially Watchmen. What is this second generation that you keep trying to come up with?

 

Both of them are about investigating a plot that will lead to the destruction of New York.

 

No, they are not. They aren't investigating any plot in Heroes. At all. Main plot points are Sylar and Peter trying not to explode. How is taht investigating a plot?

 

Both of them feature a supervillain who will use a catastrophic event for the greater good with the opinion that they will be remembered as heroes.

 

Which is easily one of the most used plot devices in literature and cinema.

 

One of which is trying to stop the nuclear race and the cold war so he wants to unleash an alien that will kill alot of people and make some crazy in New York which will make both sides think aliens are invading and join forces to focus on that. In Heroes, the villian is not going to stop a hero not being able to control his powers blowing up that is already destined (by accident by the way) to happen so that he can have a president in his pocket.

 

Thats practically the same story, huh?

 

You are drawing lines that don't exist and since they don't exist you are slightly adjusting each story so that they do fit your "BLATANTLY STEALING" rants.

[starvenger 0]

Yeah, I really said Nathan and Linderman will blame the explosion on aliens.

No, you didn't, but since you insist that Heroes is ripping off Watchmen, you've implied that that's what's going to happen.

 

Um, no. I said they stole the same storyline. The bomb might not even go off in the end but that doesn't mean they didn't steal.

Yeah, it probably means that they stole from a Bond movie or something, since Bond always stops the victim. Bond predates Watchmen, btw. Alan Moore must've stolen the "villain blows stuff up and takes over the world" from Ian Fleming.

[AmericanDragon 0]

[Heroes and Watchmen being the same genre isn't proof that it's a blatant ripoff. It only adds support to it. I'm sure no one accused 24 of stealing because the "killing many for a greater good" was the only similarity. Now you have Heroes doing the same storyline.

 

Both Heroes and Watchmen are about two generations of superheroes.

 

No, they aren't. Especially Watchmen. What is this second generation that you keep trying to come up with?

 

Both of them are about investigating a plot that will lead to the destruction of New York.

 

No, they are not. They aren't investigating any plot in Heroes. At all. Main plot points are Sylar and Peter trying not to explode. How is taht investigating a plot?

 

Both of them feature a supervillain who will use a catastrophic event for the greater good with the opinion that they will be remembered as heroes.

 

Which is easily one of the most used plot devices in literature and cinema.

 

One of which is trying to stop the nuclear race and the cold war so he wants to unleash an alien that will kill alot of people and make some crazy in New York which will make both sides think aliens are invading and join forces to focus on that. In Heroes, the villian is not going to stop a hero not being able to control his powers blowing up that is already destined (by accident by the way) to happen so that he can have a president in his pocket.

 

Thats practically the same story, huh?

 

You are drawing lines that don't exist and since they don't exist you are slightly adjusting each story so that they do fit your "BLATANTLY STEALING" rants.

 

Ok, so the Minutemen and the Crimebusters aren't two distinct generations of superheroes?

 

The heroes in Heroes are investigating a plot (the bomb going off) and trying to figure out how to stop it. "Investigating" doesn't mean there's a god damn detective character going around asking questions. They "investigated" it by trying to seek answers from the paintings.

 

You just said in a previous post that Linderman is trying to stop the people who are trying to stop the bomb. If it's all "predestined" then why would he even attempt to stop them? Even though in my opinion he talks about the bomb as if he's involved in setting up the whole thing, you can say that he had nothing to do with it but he's still actively fighting those who oppose it. He isn't simply sitting there waiting for it to happen so in effect he is involved in the bomb going off. You can only claim that he isn't actively involved if he was the only person who knew about it and just let it happen.

[AmericanDragon 0]

Yeah, I really said Nathan and Linderman will blame the explosion on aliens.

No, you didn't, but since you insist that Heroes is ripping off Watchmen, you've implied that that's what's going to happen.

 

Um, no. I said they stole the same storyline. The bomb might not even go off in the end but that doesn't mean they didn't steal.

Yeah, it probably means that they stole from a Bond movie or something, since Bond always stops the victim. Bond predates Watchmen, btw. Alan Moore must've stolen the "villain blows stuff up and takes over the world" from Ian Fleming.

 

Those justifications are just terrible and since it's not the first time you've posted stuff like that, I'm going to just accept that I can't change your opinion so you can continue responding to my posts with such weak arguments but I won't try to reply to you anymore.

[KingPK 0]

THE JIM/PAM/KAREN TRIANGLE IS RIPPING OFF ARCHIE/BETTY/VERONICA!!

 

Anyway.....

 

I'm kind of thinking that Micah will start having more of a role in the show next season. I think it would be pretty cool to see the big villain of the next season be a kid using a bunch of hi-tech means to do evil.

Edited April 25, 2007 by KingPK

[starvenger 0]

Yeah, I really said Nathan and Linderman will blame the explosion on aliens.

No, you didn't, but since you insist that Heroes is ripping off Watchmen, you've implied that that's what's going to happen.

 

Um, no. I said they stole the same storyline. The bomb might not even go off in the end but that doesn't mean they didn't steal.

Yeah, it probably means that they stole from a Bond movie or something, since Bond always stops the victim. Bond predates Watchmen, btw. Alan Moore must've stolen the "villain blows stuff up and takes over the world" from Ian Fleming.

 

Those justifications are just terrible and since it's not the first time you've posted stuff like that, I'm going to just accept that I can't change your opinion so you can continue responding to my posts with such weak arguments but I won't try to reply to you anymore.

The weak arguments are because I've been sarcastic. I figured the OMG THEY'VE RIPPED OFF JIM LEE just might have tipped you off, but you've been so narrow minded in your look at how everything and anything Heroes has become a ripoff of Watchmen that you can't see that.

 

You're on tilt. Take a break from this thread.

[Mystery Eskimo 0]

Gawd, can we leave the Watchmen thing for now?

 

Anyway, I enjoyed the brief Sylar-Peter fight, and it was cool that the super hearing, which didn't seem a particularly big deal when Sylar got it, was the edge. I do wonder if Peter is going to survive the season. If he got round to meeting all the other characters and absorbing all their powers, he's going to be far too powerful...unless that's the point and they go with the rumoured heel turn.

[Dandy 0]

The question I was talking about was the California and Luthor scenario. I can't believe that you're getting me to keep talking about this. At no point is anyone saying there are not similarities, but it is not a blatant rip off.

 

By the way, you mis interpreted my analogies:

 

breakfast buffet = bomb in New York

restaurant business = entertainment through media

color scheme = superhero genre

 

I am not asking you to take out the bomb plot. Obviously, a kindergartener could deduce that would make it entirely not like Watchmen. What I (and others) are trying to get you to understand is that a specific scene of a show had a similarity to the major plan in Watchmen. There is a bomb in New York, and if it goes off, one man will have a big personal gain. Both shows are about superhero types. However, the entire plot, circumstances, characters, etc. are so totally different that it is unfair to say they are stealing from Watchmen.

 

Now, for the last time, could we please drop this, discuss it elsewhere, or whatever. I can't convince you to see my points, and you aren't making any further points since your first post. Let's please get back to discussing the show Heroes without talking about a book from 20 years ago.

[starvenger 0]

Anyway, I enjoyed the brief Sylar-Peter fight, and it was cool that the super hearing, which didn't seem a particularly big deal when Sylar got it, was the edge. I do wonder if Peter is going to survive the season. If he got round to meeting all the other characters and absorbing all their powers, he's going to be far too powerful...unless that's the point and they go with the rumoured heel turn.

To do that, they'd probably have to get rid of Sylar first, because two guys who have a shitload of acquired powers and have turned evil is probably a bit of overkill. Still, it can be done. Sylar's a serial killer because of how his powers work (he somehow absorbs his victim's DNA, hence the occasional weird voice). Since Peter's powers work differently, I'd assume that his "madness" would take a different form. HE'D probably be the one who takes over the world because he's got all the powers.

 

Then again, maybe Peter's powers are more Ultra Boy than Mimic, and he can only use one at a time. Which probably opens up a whole new can of worms like asking how the healing factor kicked in.

 

Speaking of powers, I'm going back a couple of eps, but when he stopped the taser, was that telekinesis or Hiro's time power?