NFL Discussion Forumtable

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

Vince Young and DeMeco Ryans took the offensive and defensive player of the year awards, respectively. Interestingly neither vote was even close.

[hyperchord24 0]

Not sure where the discussion's going to be or if it'll eventually deserve it's own thread, but this situation with Saban is rediculous. Everyone is calling him a liar for taking the Bama job and burning him in effigy. What I can't understand is why. So he's been telling people he's not going to take it for a while. Does that make him a liar? No. He denied it during the season. He's not a liar. He changed his mind. What's the deal?

[snuffbox 0]

It's a pattern of quitting on signed contracts.

[Guest Princess Leena]

Saban did lie. He said he was not going to take the Alabama job. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, though... as the media was doing their usual pressuring of the situation and what does Saban say in that situation anyway? The season wasn't over yet.

 

VY winning ROY is silly. The hypocrisy with how the media treats him compared to Vick is ridiculous.

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

But...but... Vince is a winner! Intangibles! SI cover! Rose Bowls!

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

The sad Dolphins owner asking the REPORTERS for suggestions on how to improve his team has to be the #1 quote of 2007 so far.

 

Vince Young plays the game right and is a winner. Vick can't throw and is a loser. I don't see the problem. Plus Vick is a prick.

[Guest]

Vince Young is not a divider, and doesn't criticize every part of his organization. Vick is a punk bitch.

 

That's without going into the analyzation of their play.

[snuffbox 0]

Also, Leena, Vick is a veteran not a rookie.

[Broward83 0]

I'm glad DeMeco won the award...thing is, how long can Houston keep guys like him, Johnson and Dunta on the team when we can't break .500 and have fans booing nearly every play on offense?

[Guest Vitamin X]

He did get the same kind of hype, possibly worse, during his drafting and leading up to his first season as a starter and beyond.

 

I mean, even the Bush hype this past year was nothing compared to what Vick got. Vick was hailed as being able to COMPLETELY REDEFINE THE QUARTERBACK POSITION.

 

Also, I find it kind of surprising that Hawk didn't get even close to the votes DeMeco Ryans got, despite having almost comparable stats (Ryans made more solo tackles, but one could look at Houston's piss-poor front seven whereas Green Bay had Nick Barnett, Aaron Kampman, and a couple okay players on there to help Hawk out).

[hyperchord24 0]

Saban did lie. He said he was not going to take the Alabama job. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, though... as the media was doing their usual pressuring of the situation and what does Saban say in that situation anyway? The season wasn't over yet.

 

VY winning ROY is silly. The hypocrisy with how the media treats him compared to Vick is ridiculous.

Yeah, and later he changed his mind. If I didn't like chocolate ice cream yesterday, woke up today and decided I liked it, would you call me a liar? I know it's walking a fine line, but we all have the right to change our minds.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Here's a good article on Saban leaving for Alabama which even included the "Larry Brown of football" reference we used here.

 

"I'm not going to be the Alabama coach", said the new Alabama coach last week.

 

LAST WEEK. C'mon. When you're talking about being entrusted with millions of dollars and the future of a professional franchise here, and your very livelihood and reputation here, you should have more respect for the people who would give you that opportunity and honor your word.

 

Noone besides yourself gives a shit if you like chocolate ice cream or not. There's no money or professional and personal futures riding on that.

[Brett Favre 0]

The Nick Saban stuff reminds me of that Simpsons episode with that guy from jail.

 

"Marge, look into my eyes. I did not burn Mr. Skinner's car."

[bob_barron 0]

Here's a good article on Saban leaving for Alabama which even included the "Larry Brown of football" reference we used here.

 

"I'm not going to be the Alabama coach", said the new Alabama coach last week.

 

LAST WEEK. C'mon. When you're talking about being entrusted with millions of dollars and the future of a professional franchise here, and your very livelihood and reputation here, you should have more respect for the people who would give you that opportunity and honor your word.

 

Noone besides yourself gives a shit if you like chocolate ice cream or not. There's no money or professional and personal futures riding on that.

 

Leave Noone out of this

[Guest "Go, Mordecai!"]

"I'm glad you like chocolate. Is Breyer's your brand?"

[The Niggardly King 0]

So, if you're the Falcons Owner... what do you do? Do you clean house, and hire a head coach and offensive coordinator that will build around Vick, like Chow & Fisher did with Young... and Peyton with Brees? Bring in one of the freshly canned coaches? Try to get rid of Vick and start off new with Schaub?

 

I'd go down the first route.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I'd trade Vick somewhere else and start fresh. While the Falcons play the running game well, that's clearly a team that has no notion of what to do with the forward pass, as they finished dead last in passing offense and almost last in pass defense as well. DeAngelo Hall is a great corner, but how's the rest of the secondary? And Warrick Dunn is getting on in years too, isn't he?

 

At least it's a sure thing the passing game would improve with Schaub at quarterback than with Vick, and Atlanta needs that.

[Special K 0]

Seahawks all the way, baby!

 

No, It'll be bears v somone.

 

Seahawks to the second round baby!

 

First play. Romo to Owens..... OOHHH! Mutant League foorball. He exploded. And died. And exploded again. My team is hurting bad with THREE of their fuckin' corners out v TO. Let's hope he pouts.

[dh86 0]

He still has four years left on the contract extension he was given last season.

 

Ah, to be a Lions fan. Is there any way Millen can be fired, or will he serve the length of his contract unless he quits?

 

he will be here til Ford dies

[hyperchord24 0]

Well, I guess you all have in your head to hate Saban, so I'll stop trying to convince you of how wrong you are.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

LT wins the MVP. For some bizarre reason, it wasn't unanimous.

[Black Lushus 0]

Drew Drees made a case for it for awhile there...

[Guest Princess Leena]

Vick can't throw and is a loser.

Vick - 52.6% completion rate, 20 TD, 13 INT

Young - 51.5%, 12 TD, 13 INT.

 

I hear most people saying that Vince is ahead of Vick already, and he "knows" how to play QB. They're wrong. And it's not even close. Young is still a liability in the passing game at this point of his career. I know there's other intangibles involved (Vick being a punk bitch, Young being a "winner" [of a handful of meaningless games, where Travis Henry turned back into a Pro Bowl back...]), but it's still blatant hypocrisy.

 

Mostly, my issue is with Young getting the nod over Colston and Drew.

[snuffbox 0]

Hopefully LT caps off his incredible season with some playoff success. The old Schottenheimer postseason vibe will be working against him.

[naiwf 0]

I enjoy how quickly the NFL awards come out after the season, especially in comparison to how long MLB waits to announce theirs.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Vick can't throw and is a loser.

Vick - 52.6% completion rate, 20 TD, 13 INT

Young - 51.5%, 12 TD, 13 INT.

 

I hear most people saying that Vince is ahead of Vick already, and he "knows" how to play QB. They're wrong. And it's not even close. Young is still a liability in the passing game at this point of his career. I know there's other intangibles involved (Vick being a punk bitch, Young being a "winner" [of a handful of meaningless games, where Travis Henry turned back into a Pro Bowl back...]), but it's still blatant hypocrisy.

 

Mostly, my issue is with Young getting the nod over Colston and Drew.

 

Wouldn't a more accurate barometer be to compare their their first full seasons (esp. since Vick is in his 6th season)? Anyway, Vick clearly was a much better passer and runner than Vince Young was at that stage in time. Interesting to see how closely Young resembled McNair though.

 

Vince Young: 184 of 356 (51.7%) for 2,199 yards (6.2 YPA) with 12 TD, 13 INT. Also had 82 carries for 553 yards (6.7 YPC) for 7 TD.

Michael Vick: 231 of 421 (54.9%) for 2,936 yards (7.0 YPA) with 16 TD, 8 INT. Also had 113 carries for 777 yards (6.9 YPC) for 8 TD.

Steve McNair: 216 of 415 (52.0%) for 2,665 yards (6.4 YPA) with 14 TD, 13 INT. Also had 101 carries for 674 yards (6.7 YPC) for 8 TD.

[The Man in Blak 0]

Vick can't throw and is a loser.

Vick - 52.6% completion rate, 20 TD, 13 INT

Young - 51.5%, 12 TD, 13 INT.

 

I hear most people saying that Vince is ahead of Vick already, and he "knows" how to play QB. They're wrong. And it's not even close.

 

From FootballOutsiders, here's the DPAR (Defense-adjusted Points Above Replacement) stats for both of them:

(Once again, having the tag turned on or some kind of table support in this forum would make it 1000% times easier to format these numbers in the post. Just a thought, mod guys.)

 

PLAYER----TEAM----DPAR(pass)----DPAR(rush)

V.Young....TEN.......7.7...........7.6

M.Vick.....ATL......-6.3..........32.4

 

Even though Young is in his first year in the league, he's already a better passer by these statistics. Not only that, Vick is actually below replacement for the position, from a passing standpoint.

 

That being said, Vick is a more valuable player overall, as a result of his contributions on the ground; 1000 yards on the ground is no joke, and his success as a runner easily compensates for his failures as a passer, when compared to Young.

 

Young is still a liability in the passing game at this point of his career. I know there's other intangibles involved (Vick being a punk bitch, Young being a "winner" [of a handful of meaningless games, where Travis Henry turned back into a Pro Bowl back...]), but it's still blatant hypocrisy.

 

I don't know if it's hypocrisy, as much as it is context - don't forget, Michael Vick was getting the same kind of hype (if not more) when he first came into the league as well. If Vince Young fails to develop over the next four seasons, the criticisms that Vick receives today may also likely apply to him.

 

Mostly, my issue is with Young getting the nod over Colston and Drew.

 

This I would agree with, though. Not only were Colston and Drew were better players at their respective positions, but Young isn't even the best rookie QB in his class. (Matt Leinart was a more valuable quarterback than Vince Young and Michael Vick this season.)

[Matt Young 0]

So it's official. Cowher's gone.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

So is Art Shell..he can have his Golf Tournament here again this year..YAY!..er..whatever..

[razazteca 0]

Michael Vick = Should be playing WR like Kordell "Slash" Stewart

 

 

Vince Young = Donovan McNabb, a winner who can carry his team to the playoffs for years to come