WON News + Notes (December 11 Issue)

[Broward83 0]

I think RVD will definitely jump to TNA. It's clear WWE has no further plans to use him seriously, and guys like Angle and Christian are doing fine in TNA. It just makes sense.

 

 

Yeah, but how long can TNA keep taking WWE hand-me downs and be a "fresh, vibrant" promotion?

 

Sure, it'd be great to get Rob in there for a short period of time, but in the long run does it really benefit TNA?

 

I read somewhere on here that TNA has like, 4 years left with their NWA alliance? Shouldn't they be spending these 4 years trying to get a better working agreement with ROH or CZW or any other "up and coming" promotion to try and provide a real alternative towards WWE?

[Guest Greg Valentine]

Thanks for the post, you rock!

[Mike wanna be 0]

Here's one that baffled me:

No one is really quite sure if Heyman is still employed at this point

How do you NOT KNOW if he's still working there? I understand that it's basically between Heyman and the McMahon family as pertaining to his employment, but how can nobody in the company that the Observer talks to know if he's still on the payroll, especially when you consider he's been writer on 2 brands, a manager AND a color commentator for said company?

[uhftv 0]

it says heyman agreed to leave in a meeting before the ppv but then says after the show bombed he was going to leave. So that means if the show was a success and got a big thumbs up Heyman wouldve still left?

[CubbyBr 0]

Yeah, but how long can TNA keep taking WWE hand-me downs and be a "fresh, vibrant" promotion?

 

How is RVD a hand-me-down? He's waiting until his contract expires to go work somewhere else that he thinks will be better for him. Are you trying to tell me that if RVD wanted to stay with WWE they wouldn't keep him?

[justcoz 0]

The comment about Heyman agreeing to leave before the PPV was a typo. Heyman supposedly walked out prior to RAW thinking he was free and clear and gone from the company but it's not clear if they fired him or will choose to keep him on payroll to do nothing or reassign him to another role.

[justcoz 0]

And thanks for posting all of that from Observer! This company is in the shit right now. It's difficult to figure out who to blame the most. Vince? Steph? Kevin Dunn? John Larinitus? They are all imbeciles and totally clueless it seems. At least when JR was in charge of talent, regardless of how bad creative was, you knew that they were looking for guys with amateur backgrounds and guys that grew up on HBK, Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, etc. Now they are looking for Sylvan and Chris Masters when it's clear as day, when people like CM Punk get over before guys like that, WWE are the only ones sharing this vision of what a 'male wrestler' is supposed to look like. Samoa Joe didn't look like a WWE superstar either, right?

 

And this is where TNA needs to step up. Be the opposite of WWE's vision of what sports entertainment is rather than trying to mirror it like they've been doing.

 

They talked about this a bit today on pwinsiderelite.com - in Spring of '07, it's very possible we could be witnessing a mass exodus that includes people like Lita, RVD, Sabu, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho and Big Show - all looking to make money on lighter schedules. Factor in Paul Heyman in either a creative or just a on camera role and you'll have all the ingredients for another NWO type angle where they can capitalize on everything weak in WWE at the moment. Get Spike to put them on Tuesdays for two hours. You'll have ECW and Wrestling Society X - could be a nice little Tuesday night war. And Spike TV should get heavilly behind TNA. They should be throwing money at them to get names - promise them roles in Spike TV original productions, etc.

[cabbageboy 0]

For what it's worth WCW did prove it was viable to sign big names and have them work light schedules for big money. It was the aimless spending on stupid stuff that could have been avoided combined with the horrible booking that killed their business.

 

Some of these guys TNA has are WWE hand me down rejects. Voodoo Kin Mafia epitomizes this, as do (sadly) Team 3D.

 

I already listed an insane amount of tantalizing matches for RVD in TNA. He would be TNA's best signing to date, since they could do literally anything with him. World title division, X Division, sign Sabu and he could tag. Maybe all 3. I'd love to see an RVD who was motivated and had the handcuffs removed by upper management.

[uhftv 0]

That's the one thing that's a relief with TNA despite their insanity for workin with Russo: they dont have a hardon for musclebound tall guys like Vince does. But that comes from the Jarretts being smaller and Vince thinking bodybuilding is the greatest thing ever invented.

I actually think if Vince had a choice between Angle in his prime or signing a Khali or Nathan Jones, he would pass over Angle. He will eventually have a company full of musclebound guys who don't even want to be wrestlers.

It's even more of a blow for the business the way it is now because not only will fans lose interest, but it cuts off people who would aspire to be wrestlers. Imagine the NBA announcing theyre only hiring 7 foot guys from now on, cause no one's interested in guys who play other positions. Totally clueless in sports AND entertainment yet they still make millions. Somehow he thinks the greatest success he's ever had the last 5 years is the divasearch so he's trying to run every aspect of the business like that. Genius. It's been a secret plan to recreate the wbf, I just never realized it till now.

[Ginger Snaps 0]

Sure, it'd be great to get Rob in there for a short period of time, but in the long run does it really benefit TNA?

 

Maybe. TNA has had better buyrates and ratings since Angle signed. They can't compete with the WWE but maybe all it will take is a few big names signed to give them more of a fanbase.

 

I actually think if Vince had a choice between Angle in his prime or signing a Khali or Nathan Jones, he would pass over Angle.

 

Sort of agree. Vince would have signed him anyway cause he was an Olympic medalist. If Angle never won any medal in the Olympics, I could see him signing a big guy over Angle back when Angle was starting out.

[theintensifier 0]

The IWC has been clammering for a AJ Styles - Rob Van Dam match for a long time. RVD still has a lot of years left under his belt, and why not spend them in TNA, and help them continue their climb upward?

[Enigma 0]

it says heyman agreed to leave in a meeting before the ppv but then says after the show bombed he was going to leave. So that means if the show was a success and got a big thumbs up Heyman wouldve still left?

That's like saying "Well, if this humongous shit I'm about to take after eating $10 worth of Taco Bell smells like a garden...".

[King Cucaracha 0]

Heyman also stood up to Vince about McMahon's idea of turning Van Dam heel after his suspension which didn't put him on Vince's good side.

So it's Heyman's fault we're stuck with stale babyface 2002 RVD?

 

There are lots of different stories coming from WWE about what Heyman's original plans for the Chamber match were. However, everyone is saying that Show had agreed to tap out to CM Punk's Anaconda Vice to get Punk over strong even though he wasn't going to win the title. There are then differing reports of when this would have been done. Some are saying Heyman's plan was for Punk and Show to open the Chamber and have Show tap after 4:00, which would give a minute for Show to leave and get a 'Thank You Show' chant or whatever from his hometown crowd as well as getting Punk over. Although Show was more than happy with that idea, Vince turned it down flat. Another version is that Show would eliminate Van Dam before tapping to Punk. Punk would then have been pinned by Test, would in turn would have been pinned by Lashley for the finish.

 

Am I the only one who thinks that sounds really bad booking in it's own right? Dropping Show in the opening period to Punk (and this is coming as a big Punk fan) would have been risky and virtually negated by having Punk fall to Test. And then Lashley winning the belt by beating Test, by which point the crowd would be even more POed than they were with Show/Lashley, which does absolutely no-one any favours.

 

If he is fired, it's highly unlikely he'll go to TNA as they are not going to want to disrupt the power structure there and Russo won't be sacked untill his terrible booking drasticly affects the Impact ratings.

That's what I like about Meltzer, he's so unbiased.

 

A DVD called 'The Rock's Greatest Matches' is due to be released in June

 

Neat.

[cabbageboy 0]

Cucaracha, turning RVD heel in that situation would have been a horrible move. It makes zero sense in terms of the storyline they were doing. RVD gets screwed out of the title by Heyman and Show so he has these choices:

 

A) Go out on a vendetta and kick the shit out of Heyman, Show, and the Goons....then win back what is rightfully his.

B) Get a couple of non title wins over Show, never totally get even with Heyman, and get buried.

C) Do a nonsensical heel turn and side with Heyman and Show, the men who screwed him.

 

One of those choices is what was proposed, one of those choices is what they actually did, and one of those is the choice any sane person would approve. I'll let you guys figure out which is which.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

If he is fired, it's highly unlikely he'll go to TNA as they are not going to want to disrupt the power structure there and Russo won't be sacked untill his terrible booking drasticly affects the Impact ratings.

That's what I like about Meltzer, he's so unbiased.

The quote in the article:

 

"No matter what history shows, Vince Russo is going to have to fail with the numbers over time before I'd suspect any thought to changes in that position is made"

 

No mention of Russo's booking quality is made in the section of the article that talks about Heyman and TNA. Meltzer just says that with Russo having only just been brought in it's unlikely he'll be removed anytime soon and then mentions the numbers falling as what it would take before Russo is removed.

[EdwardKnoxII 0]

Shane even used to tell Ken Shamrock when he was in WWE about how he'd be able to do well in UFC as he's tough and won a few fights as a kid.

 

Knowing Shane I bet he paid the kids to take a dive in the schoolyard fights.

[theintensifier 0]

I bet Ken told him he was a great fighter.

[NoCalMike 0]

Some of these guys TNA has are WWE hand me down rejects. Voodoo Kin Mafia epitomizes this, as do (sadly) Team 3D.

 

Well WWE basically ruined The Dudleys, reducing them from being an actual good tag team, into a table breaking gimmick. If they would go back to being the Dudleys, not in name, but more similar to the original gimmick of being super monster heels, which they are better as, then in my opinion, they wouldn't come off like WWE-rejects.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Exactly. All the table matches and crap are so 1998. They should just come out and beat the crap out of people, then tell the crowd to go fuck themselves and stuff.

[NoCalMike 0]

Exactly. All the table matches and crap are so 1998. They should just come out and beat the crap out of people, then tell the crowd to go fuck themselves and stuff.

 

Yup. It would be cool if they took some time off, then came back and their first match back, it gets to that usual time during the match when Bubba tells D-Von to get the table, but then instead of saying "Get the Table" they just both turn to the crowd, flip the crowd off, and then hit the 3-D. Then post-match they can do a heelish promo about how they used to be the best tag team in the industry until they went up to Stamford, and were reduced into a comedic-table breaking act. Then from there on out they go back to being monster heels.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

I think bringing up how Stamford ruined them would make them faces.

[NoCalMike 0]

I think bringing up how Stamford ruined them would make them faces.

 

True, so then after that they can say that they thought coming to TNA would change things, that the fans would remember them for their tag team championships, but it was all for not, as everyone here just remembered them for the stupid tables gimmick. How these fans are no better then those in the WWE etc etc etc........

[randomguy 0]

Sounds like both Heyman and Vince have horrible ideas.

 

TNA can do well with WWE castoffs. TNA workers might get paid less but they also work a lot less, have a better healthier lifestyle, etc. Quality of life is important and travelling all the time is very draining when you have an office job, let alone a job where you get constantly beat up. Angle and RVD represent good talent, not washed up guys who couldn't cut it in another promotion.

[Mecca 0]

The Dudleys crap isn't going to go away because.......it's easy for them to do it this way. They both look like they just want to get paid and mail it in.

 

TNA's less work thing is going to end eventually, to be a viable competitor they will have to tour and do house shows and not run every show from the crappy Impact Zone.

[Fro 0]

Everyone is now pretty much against buying Pride. Even Shane, who is a MMA fan now has a negative feeling to the idea. The WWE though does recognise the value of the Pride tape library and would be interested in some of the fighters. Basically they want the heavyweights who have 'the look' and also those they feel are marketable characters, such as Bob Sapp, Tank Abbott (!) and Butterbean. They don't believe that the lightweight fighters will draw and although they'd use them they'd never give them a chance to be anything other than what they'd allow pro wrestlers of that size to be.

 

Which says to me that they really must not watch that much MMA after all...

 

Exactly... Matt Hughes is 5-9 and probably walks around at 185 or so (and cuts weight to 170) and he's drawn more money in the last year than HHH has in his whole damn career.

[randomguy 0]

Wrestling is more of a spectacle than MMA, at least that is the thinking.

 

Also while I agree that TNA will have to tour, they don't have to keep a WWE schedule. You can do one show a week on the road, or even twice a month. TV allows us to watch wrestling without physically being there.

[King Cucaracha 0]

If he is fired, it's highly unlikely he'll go to TNA as they are not going to want to disrupt the power structure there and Russo won't be sacked untill his terrible booking drasticly affects the Impact ratings.

That's what I like about Meltzer, he's so unbiased.

The quote in the article:

 

"No matter what history shows, Vince Russo is going to have to fail with the numbers over time before I'd suspect any thought to changes in that position is made"

No mention of Russo's booking quality is made in the section of the article that talks about Heyman and TNA. Meltzer just says that with Russo having only just been brought in it's unlikely he'll be removed anytime soon and then mentions the numbers falling as what it would take before Russo is removed.

 

Ah, I assumed what was posted was the actual article. n/m

 

Cucaracha, turning RVD heel in that situation would have been a horrible move. It makes zero sense in terms of the storyline they were doing. RVD gets screwed out of the title by Heyman and Show so he has these choices:

 

A) Go out on a vendetta and kick the shit out of Heyman, Show, and the Goons....then win back what is rightfully his.

B) Get a couple of non title wins over Show, never totally get even with Heyman, and get buried.

C) Do a nonsensical heel turn and side with Heyman and Show, the men who screwed him.

 

One of those choices is what was proposed, one of those choices is what they actually did, and one of those is the choice any sane person would approve. I'll let you guys figure out which is which.

 

Yeah, I guess it wouldn't have worked coming back after the suspension (which re-reading the article is when it was shot down).

 

Now Show's gone though, if it's still being shot down then I don't know why. From a WWE perspective rather than an 'ECW' perspective, turning Lashley heel would have been a dumb move. I don't see him having the charisma to carry a heel role, with or without Heyman as manager. Turning him heel before the trip to Iraq would have been an insane move. Where-as RVD has needed a freshening of character for 2 or 3 years and I still think they missed the boat when they turned The Dudleys on him. The sooner they turn RVD now, the better.

[cabbageboy 0]

The thing is, what self respecting ECW fan (is there such a thing?) would boo RVD and cheer on Lashley? I can maybe see it with CM Punk, but not Lashley. If anything adding a harder heelish edge to RVD would make fans like him even more.

 

Here is what I'd do with ECW for the next 6-7 months: RVD feuds with Lashley and wins the title from him at WM. They probably don't wanna do it, but I don't know what other option there is for WM. Then they can do the RVD/Punk feud right before Van Dam's contract is up. RVD can job the title to Punk at ONS 3 and that would be his last match in the company before signing with TNA.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

That is not a bad way to plan things, but let's face it, WWE doesn't work that way. They won't risk putting the title on a guy right before his contract is up.

[2GOLD 0]

The thing is, what self respecting ECW fan (is there such a thing?) would boo RVD and cheer on Lashley? I can maybe see it with CM Punk, but not Lashley. If anything adding a harder heelish edge to RVD would make fans like him even more.

 

Here is what I'd do with ECW for the next 6-7 months: RVD feuds with Lashley and wins the title from him at WM. They probably don't wanna do it, but I don't know what other option there is for WM. Then they can do the RVD/Punk feud right before Van Dam's contract is up. RVD can job the title to Punk at ONS 3 and that would be his last match in the company before signing with TNA.

 

I think the WWE has made it pretty clear that if you aren't going to sign a new contract, they are going to either send you home for four months or bury you into the ground. So if RVD isn't going to sign a new deal, all you will see is him getting pinned by everyone on the ECW roster or you won't see him at all.