The origins of the Vince angle

[Vern Gagne 0]

It was such a tv death. The limo exploding, that's right out of a bad Steven Segal flick. It's not like Vince put on a Blue Blazer custom, and fell 70 feet to his "death".

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Ultimately, the big problem with the angle is that no one buys that Vince is truly dead. It makes everyone involved look foolish.

[Scroby 0]

I like to add my two cents here, since I am one of the few here who are actually involved in the wrestling business and please don't take that as I'm taking a shot at the posters here, because I'm not.

 

Pro Wrestling is a really strange buisness. The Vince McMahon death angle is something...well to be honest it's something..it's something new and creative that the WWE is going all out for to make sure it works. Not everyone will agree with it, not everyone will buy into it, and a lot of people will be offended by it and that goes fans and workers and "journalists" alike. Am I personnally offended by it? No I'm not, do I think it's a cheap way to gain attention to your shows? Yes I do, but will it work? Yes it will and it has.

 

I haven't seen the ratings for ECW or Smackdown but I'm assuming both shows got a ratings spike just because people wanted to see what the hell was going on. I remember on Tuesday, I was driving somewhere for work, listening to the radio when I heard someone call in and ask the dj about the Vince McMahon exploding limo and no, this was not a radio wrestling show, it was just some random fan calling into the station to talk about it on-air. The dj proclaimed that it had to just be a storyline as nothing has been said about the "death" of Vince McMahon on any mainstream news show or website, just the WWE.com website. So in a sense, the WWE has done the right thing of gaining people's attention and having people talk about it.

 

Have they taken it a bit to far with the 10 bell salute and the gathering of workers at the enterance? Well it depends on who you are and how deep you THINK you are with wrestling. Apprently Mr. Keller is sick to his stomach about the whole thing and I'm sure there are many more weather it be a fan, worker, or "journalist" who pretty much feel the same way. A lot of people love and respect this buisness, there is a lot of people who have gained a LOT from this buisness by actually either wrestling, Ref'ing, annoucing, or using the internet to write about and judge wrestling and for some freaking reason I can't seem to understand why the "death of Vince McMahon" is impacting these people so much, but then again I"m not one of these people.

 

I understand that this is a WWE storyline and weather you want to admit or not, the WWE will go all out no matter what to make sure the storyline sticks and works, even if it's in somewhat dis-taste and goes to a level NO ONE (katie vick) wants to see. Now I am one of the people who love and respect this buisness, have I gained a LOT from it? Hell no, I haven't earned much from this buisness but I do love and respect this buisness and a stupid low-brow death storyline from the WWE is not going to make me sick to my stomach and throw a hissy fit about it like Wade Keller did. Hell no, if I don't like it, I'll turn the channel and watch that new NBC love reality show for a bit until the stupid who done it bullshit is off my tv and we move to another segment.

 

Pro Wrestling is a strange buisness, either you love it or you hate it, either you understand it or you don't, either you take pro wrestling seriously or just sit back and realize it's just a storyline that will go one for a certain amount of time and when it's over, it will be more than likely forgotten and barely mentioned at all. This is Pro Wrestling and it's a strange buisness, get used it and enjoy...or get the hell out of it.

[KingPK 0]

It was such a tv death. The limo exploding, that's right out of a bad Steven Segal flick. It's not like Vince put on a Blue Blazer custom, and fell 70 feet to his "death".

 

I liked that, even though half the roster was supposed to be standing in the hall right next to the outside door when the explosion happened, nobody came out to see what that big BOOM they just heard was all about.

Edited June 19, 2007 by KingPK

[Gary Floyd 0]

I love this angle. It's stupid, but it's interesting, and it's a hell of a lot of fun. I haven't enjoyed a WWE angle like I am right now in a long time. Love it or hate it, it gets attention.

[David Blazenwing 0]

This is the first time I've watched two consecutive RAWs since before last year's Survivor Series. Only watched last week b/c of the draft, and the ending had me interested (again, first time in a long time) in what was going to happen this week.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Ultimately, the big problem with the angle is that no one buys that Vince is truly dead. It makes everyone involved look foolish.

 

 

The only person who looked foolish was Stephanie, and that was because she's such a horrible actor. Everything else played out like a bad detective show.

[Bruiser_Brody_ 0]

ECW's ratings were up 20% according to WON

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

We have characters in Chikara who die all the time. I miss them, just like I miss Vince. R.I.P.

 

It's pro wrestling. Stop whining, buncha Nancys.

[muzz 0]

The whole camera following Vince to his demise in an explosion thing is so fake and Hollywood you can't take it seriously, but if I wanted to see a character die on TV, I'd rather watch a drama, and not on a program where people have actually died performing in the past.

[uhftv 0]

I understand the whole this is fake and stupid stuff. But when they do things like appearing on the ramp and having bell salutes, those things are associated with real deaths in wrestling and having wrestlers break character. It's stupid to emulate that.

 

If it was a lesser character like Teddy long originally, and what a horrible year 2005 was for Smackdown as I remember, I could buy into the stupidness. But doing any of that tribute stuff is lame. Even the Al Wilson stuff was done minimally.

 

When Vince really dies, I'm going to think about what a horrible actress Stephanie is when she speaks.

 

and the stuff about comparing wwe to other fiction on tv is like something wwe themselves say when they're criticized. "It's all fake come on guys, jus gimme your money and enjoy it"

 

If you can buy into the story without the tastelessness, I'd rather see a serial bomber-type story rather than a who killed Vince? story. They'd have to blow up Titan Towers though.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Yikes, do people flip out that much over characters dying on CSI or 24 (or whatever the popular mainstream shows are on tv now) and cite how distatesful and insulting to real people those shows are? Or is this just a wrestling fan thing?

 

People die on 24 all the time, to the point where now on that show it gets a "so and so died...meh" reaction because they've killed so many people off.

[Perfection 0]

More from keller

 

A lot of people keep emailing me and posting in the Forum that people shouldn't be outraged, offended, or bothered by the Vince McMahon death storyline because deaths are written into a lot of scripted, fictional entertainment programs.

 

The problem people have with the storyline isn't that Vince McMahon scripted his own death. Not at all. Again, zero. Zippo. That is not what people are outraged about. Nobody is offended by a death storyline in wrestling. It might be a bad idea because it goes further than typical "suspension of disbelief" allows - and "suspension of disbelief" is a big part of what turns an ordinary wrestling angle or match into a "money match." But it's not in and of itself offensive at all.

 

What's offensive is that to get the Mr. McMahon Death storyline over, script-breaking, character-breaking shows dedicated to Owen Hart and Eddie Guerrero after they died are being reenacted, emulated, exploited. That is what is wrong. It's beyond insensitive. It's shameful.

 

Those shows dedicated to Owen and Eddie, and all ten-bell salutes for that matter, are sacred. Or should be. Those genuine moments of announcers looking solemnly at the camera, as if to communicate to fans that this is "different," we're not in storyline mode, are sacred, not to be exploited for ratings. Those genuine ten-bell salutes or the gathering of wrestlers - heels and faces - breaking character and hanging their heads in tribute to a fallen commrade are not to be exploited for ratings. It's just wrong.

 

If there is no way to pull off a murder storyline in a "believable" serious fashion without exploiting those situations, then just don't do the storyline. There's a reason death hasn't been written in wrestling storylines over the years in any major top programs - because it just can't be pulled off effectively, at least not without insulting the viewers or offending those who really have died.

 

Asking Vickie Guerrero to stand on the stage with the wrestlers in the same manner and posture for a moment of silence as happened after her husband died is sick. It's wrong. It's inhumane. It lacks basic human decency.

 

Now ten-bell salutes don't mean a thing because it's been cashed out for a storyline. Nor do wrestlers breaking character and standing on a stage together hanging their heads.

 

They could have camped up the McMahon Murder Mystery and avoided those scenes. Or they could done a totally straight-faced "Missing Persons Investigation" and accomplished the same thing (at least as it's played out so far) with wrestlers cutting promos, as Mr. Kennedy did, saying, "If they never find Mr. McMahon, or if he never returns, I want to say I dedicate my career to him." Steph could have given the same promo, but instead of mourning the death of her father, she could have been concerned for his safety and worried about where he is and whether he ran off confused and disoriented or if he was kidnapped by someone with evil intentions.

 

The option they chose, though, is obviously and undeniably not just in "bad taste," but offensive and indecent. Exploiting the emotions generated from the tributes to real wrestler deaths is beyond justification. It's sick. It's sad. It's unjustifiable. What makes it even more sad is how unnecessary it is, too.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

the problem with trying to compare wrestling as an entertainment program with 24, CSI, Sopranos etc..... is that at the end of the day, you're comparing wrestling to 24, CSI, and the Sopranos. In other words, if you put them in the same category, wrestling becomes even more of a joke than it already is - from the writing to the acting to the effects to the camera-work to the cutting, its completely horrific in every way if you actually do any sort of comparison with a halfway competent TV show.

 

People roll with the idiosyncracies BECAUSE it's part of something "unique", different from the NBA/NFL and different from 24 and CSI. If wrestling's just another TV drama program, than it's literally the worst TV drama on television. It is however, probably the best and most unique "sports entertainment" program on the air.

[cabbageboy 0]

The easiest thing to compare the Vince angle with is the Al Wilson death. But the thing is Al Wilson's death was itself a goofy joke angle, and at least he went out nailing Dawn Marie until he had a heart attack. It was a low level angle and was stupid, but overall harmless compared to the Katie Vick type garbage.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

More from keller

 

A lot of people keep emailing me and posting in the Forum that people shouldn't be outraged, offended, or bothered by the Vince McMahon death storyline because deaths are written into a lot of scripted, fictional entertainment programs.

 

The problem people have with the storyline isn't that Vince McMahon scripted his own death. Not at all. Again, zero. Zippo. That is not what people are outraged about. Nobody is offended by a death storyline in wrestling. It might be a bad idea because it goes further than typical "suspension of disbelief" allows - and "suspension of disbelief" is a big part of what turns an ordinary wrestling angle or match into a "money match." But it's not in and of itself offensive at all.

 

What's offensive is that to get the Mr. McMahon Death storyline over, script-breaking, character-breaking shows dedicated to Owen Hart and Eddie Guerrero after they died are being reenacted, emulated, exploited. That is what is wrong. It's beyond insensitive. It's shameful.

 

Those shows dedicated to Owen and Eddie, and all ten-bell salutes for that matter, are sacred. Or should be. Those genuine moments of announcers looking solemnly at the camera, as if to communicate to fans that this is "different," we're not in storyline mode, are sacred, not to be exploited for ratings. Those genuine ten-bell salutes or the gathering of wrestlers - heels and faces - breaking character and hanging their heads in tribute to a fallen commrade are not to be exploited for ratings. It's just wrong.

 

If there is no way to pull off a murder storyline in a "believable" serious fashion without exploiting those situations, then just don't do the storyline. There's a reason death hasn't been written in wrestling storylines over the years in any major top programs - because it just can't be pulled off effectively, at least not without insulting the viewers or offending those who really have died.

 

Asking Vickie Guerrero to stand on the stage with the wrestlers in the same manner and posture for a moment of silence as happened after her husband died is sick. It's wrong. It's inhumane. It lacks basic human decency.

 

Now ten-bell salutes don't mean a thing because it's been cashed out for a storyline. Nor do wrestlers breaking character and standing on a stage together hanging their heads.

 

They could have camped up the McMahon Murder Mystery and avoided those scenes. Or they could done a totally straight-faced "Missing Persons Investigation" and accomplished the same thing (at least as it's played out so far) with wrestlers cutting promos, as Mr. Kennedy did, saying, "If they never find Mr. McMahon, or if he never returns, I want to say I dedicate my career to him." Steph could have given the same promo, but instead of mourning the death of her father, she could have been concerned for his safety and worried about where he is and whether he ran off confused and disoriented or if he was kidnapped by someone with evil intentions.

 

The option they chose, though, is obviously and undeniably not just in "bad taste," but offensive and indecent. Exploiting the emotions generated from the tributes to real wrestler deaths is beyond justification. It's sick. It's sad. It's unjustifiable. What makes it even more sad is how unnecessary it is, too.

 

 

offending those who really have died ... what?

[JimmyHendricks 0]

I don't mind an angle like this. I don't understand the people (Keller) who consider Professional Wrestling some sort of sacred art. It's always been looked at as a joke by the majority of the population. It just got really popular in a campy sort of way about 8 years ago.

 

I would welcome a legitimate "death" angle, but this one is being executed horribly. If they were going to "kill" Mr. McMahon, they probably shouldn't have had him being an evil bastard leading up to it. Thus, the crowd is happy that he's dead, and cheers, which is not what they want. Then, couple that with the fact that almost everyone knows Vince is not really dead, and the horrible B Movie acting/federal investigators/whodunit, and you have a terrible, terrible storyline.

 

Stop comparing it with 24 or CSI. It's a completely different vein of programming that shouldn't be compared. What would you do if Jack Bauer, instead of torturing an enemy, challenged him to a pro wrestling match? How do you think the viewing audience would react to that?

 

Someone said Vince's limo exploding was right out of a Steven Seagal movie, and they were right. Are Steven Seagal movies good? No, they are terrible, and so is this angle.

[Nate 0]

i really dont see why the net writers and some of the fans are crapping on this angle, i'll admit using the 10 bell salute is in bad taste but i think alot of people forgot they did that with Al Wilson, and that angle went as far as to have a funeral, now WWE hasnt done that with Vince now have they? no, i think its one of those things its just something WWE haters can latch onto and bash it to hell and back

 

i do agree though this angle is overshadowing alot of the wrestlers, but you have to keep in mind that WWE got pushed into this from USA Network because they want a spike in their ratings, so if people wanna be upset about this angle be upset with USA and not so much WWE

[uhftv 0]

It's surprising this came from USA's insistence, since they should no better than anyone that the big ratings boom in '99 and 2000 pre-Spike tv had nothing to do with crash tv. All that stuff was done in '97 and '98 and they usually lost to Nitro.

 

Whether you think it's tasteless or not, I think it's the same old "nothing to do with wrestlers or wrestling" deal, and if they go totally over the top with bad acting at least it's more tolerable. But then you go from 'using real life tragedy to get over lame storyline' to making fun of death ina lame way.' The equivalent would be the stuff they did with that ref that owned the bar that kept killing himself and having all the shows center around that. It's boring as shit. It's another of those things that make you feel bad for the live audience. What happened to the glory days of tasteful angles like Rosie vs Donald?

[King Cucaracha 0]

Seriously, I'm with those guys. I don't see how this is offensive at all. Wrestling is fake. It's entertainment, like any other show. There have been many death angles on TV shows. Why can't wrestling do a death angle.. because wrestlers die for real? Actors die for real too.

 

Go up to Finlay or Regal or JBL in an airport, ask them if it's 'fake'. See what happens. Better yet, search out someone like Vader.

 

It's only fake when WWE tell us it's fake. It's real when WWE tells us it's real. That makes it different from CSI and 24, where there is no grey line. When a character dies on a drama show, a- it's understood that it's fake, there's no grey line that makes people believe it is real (case in point, the amount of people who DID think it was real, when did that ever happen with CSI or 24 or House or something like that?) and b- it's not treated in the same vein as a real death would be, which is basically what WWE have been doing.

 

Besides that, Wrestling isn't like acting, otherwise wrestlers wouldn't take bumps, stunt-people would.

[The Truthiness 0]

Let me just second Cook and tomk's trenchant observation that these tribute shows frankly deserve to be parodied (though I'd wager WWE is not even 25% aware of the extent to which they are engaging in parody), as they represent the carniest and darkest side of professional wrestling. I absolutely love all of this Vince shit precisely because it is making people absolutely shook as they realize WWE can turn on all of the exact production tricks just because they want to, completely arbitrarily, just to disturb and fuck with people.

 

People's addiction to the maudlin emotion expressed by the post-death Eddy shows is legit the most disgusting thing about the pro wres internets from where I sit, because it shows people to be so deluded and completely divorced from reality as to actually believe that wrestling isn't just representative of reality, but is ACTUALLY LINKED TO THEIR OWN SOUL AND EMOTIONAL LIFE. Dan Wahlers' little speech is pretty much one man talking himself into the biggest mark stance possible in the industry: the reassuring fiction that all these employees, in addition to the fans who observe and support their livelihood and habits, do (or, in some fucked up naive normative vision, should) love and care about each other very much, and that the death of a fake fighter is a purely random, senseless tragedy on a level with an innocently fatal interstate accident, or an unfortunate fall of a toddler off a Radio Flyer. On the contrary, this is a business calculated to slowly kill people while we watch; this is really why the tribute shows are so entertaining: they are the epilogue to the crusty airport novel we finally, occasionally, finish.

 

Jesus Christ people, I love wrestling as much as anyone, but get in touch with the fact that you are watching this shit with your dark side, not your motherfucking heart.

 

This was hilarious, and true...credit Jackie Fargo.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

Real talk in the above post.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Seriously, I'm with those guys. I don't see how this is offensive at all. Wrestling is fake. It's entertainment, like any other show. There have been many death angles on TV shows. Why can't wrestling do a death angle.. because wrestlers die for real? Actors die for real too.

 

Go up to Finlay or Regal or JBL in an airport, ask them if it's 'fake'. See what happens. Better yet, search out someone like Vader.

 

It's only fake when WWE tell us it's fake. It's real when WWE tells us it's real. That makes it different from CSI and 24, where there is no grey line. When a character dies on a drama show, a- it's understood that it's fake, there's no grey line that makes people believe it is real (case in point, the amount of people who DID think it was real, when did that ever happen with CSI or 24 or House or something like that?) and b- it's not treated in the same vein as a real death would be, which is basically what WWE have been doing.

 

Besides that, Wrestling isn't like acting, otherwise wrestlers wouldn't take bumps, stunt-people would.

 

Piss off some bully-thug like Vader. No thank you. If he can't admit that everything outside the wrestling itself is scripted than fuck him.

[mfn 0]

Seriously, I'm with those guys. I don't see how this is offensive at all. Wrestling is fake. It's entertainment, like any other show. There have been many death angles on TV shows. Why can't wrestling do a death angle.. because wrestlers die for real? Actors die for real too.

 

Go up to Finlay or Regal or JBL in an airport, ask them if it's 'fake'. See what happens. Better yet, search out someone like Vader.

 

It's only fake when WWE tell us it's fake. It's real when WWE tells us it's real. That makes it different from CSI and 24, where there is no grey line. When a character dies on a drama show, a- it's understood that it's fake, there's no grey line that makes people believe it is real (case in point, the amount of people who DID think it was real, when did that ever happen with CSI or 24 or House or something like that?) and b- it's not treated in the same vein as a real death would be, which is basically what WWE have been doing.

 

Besides that, Wrestling isn't like acting, otherwise wrestlers wouldn't take bumps, stunt-people would.

 

Piss off some bully-thug like Vader. No thank you. If he can't admit that everything outside the wrestling itself is scripted than fuck him.

 

I'm sure your Vader's or Regal's or Finlay's will openly admit that pro wrestling is scripted. Now fake? That's a different story. The bumps, the pain, the injuries etc. that all professional wrestlers go through are all real. Nothing fake about HHH's quad injry. Nothing fake about Droz's neck. Nothing fake about HBK's back. etc. etc. etc.

 

I understand that all of these injuries came from 'fake' fighting, but the pain is there.

 

[mysterious_w 0]

If I ever become a wrestler, I would completely keep up kayfabe in outside life, it's an integral part of the business. Obviously I woulnd't go as far as cracking someone if they called me a fake, but I wouldn't just blurt out how it was scripted.

[Karc 0]

WWE should go all out with the angle, because if it flops, it's USA's fault for suggesting that McMahon do something crazy.

[Jingus 0]

If I ever become a wrestler, I would completely keep up kayfabe in outside life, it's an integral part of the business. Obviously I woulnd't go as far as cracking someone if they called me a fake, but I wouldn't just blurt out how it was scripted.

Depends on where you live. If it's in ROH territory, the fans will just laugh and jeer at you if you try to pretend it's "real". In the South, you can catch a beating from your fellow wrestlers if you publicly admit it's NOT real.

 

Nothing fake about HHH's quad injry. Nothing fake about Droz's neck. Nothing fake about HBK's back.

Actually, some people would argue with you there. Not necessarily ME, but some people.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Seriously, I'm with those guys. I don't see how this is offensive at all. Wrestling is fake. It's entertainment, like any other show. There have been many death angles on TV shows. Why can't wrestling do a death angle.. because wrestlers die for real? Actors die for real too.

 

Oh God, that movie "The Departed" is so disrespectful! What about all the real under cover cosp who have died?? They didn't even stop to have a memorial for them half way through the film! And did you see the ceremony scene? How disrespectful for the cops who have passed and had real ceremonies!

 

so, do you still feel this way?

 

now at least maybe people will fucking get it. or not.

[2GOLD 0]

 

Obviously the angle is over. I just cannot see them continue this angle now, there would be too much anger and sadness in that locker room to continue it.