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Brett Favre

NBA 2K8

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Gamespot

 

LEIPZIG, Germany--In our last look at NBA 2K8, we primarily focused on the new dunk system, which promises to add an entirely new level of fun and challenge to one of the more stylish aspects of the NBA game. Here at the 2007 Games Conference, 2K Sports was on hand to show off an updated build in the game, one that gets to the heart of what most fans of the series have been clamoring to know more about: five-on-five gameplay. Though our time with the game was short, we have a good idea of where the team at 2K is heading when it comes to the fundamental hoops play in 2K8.

 

Simply put, the focus this year has been on improving defensive controls and giving players more options for running plays while on offense. When defending, a new lock-on defensive system will help you shadow the ball carrier. To initiate it, you simply press and hold the left trigger. A small target icon underneath the player's feet begins to animate and, once it's complete, your controlled defender is locked on to the ball carrier. A player's defensive attributes will affect how long it takes for him to lock on to an opponent, as well as how aggressively he will guard him once locked on to that opponent. When locked on to an opponent, your defender will be able to more tightly cover and stay with a ball carrier--the CPU kicks in a bit to act as a defensive helper--but that isn't to say that you can't get beat. Indeed, should your defender get his ankles broken, or if you switch to another defender, you'll need to lock on to that player as well.

 

The other big addition to gameplay is the new off-ball controls--as they're known. Here, the idea is to give the player more flexibility with how plays unfold on the court, and the team at 2K is taking the system to a surprising level of depth. Essentially, the system lets you choose a two-man play to run and gives you the ability to choose which players are involved in that play. Here's how it works: As you bring your player (say, your point guard) to the offensive end of the floor, you hold down the left bumper. Immediately, a menu pops up showing four different plays you can call right away with a press of the associated face button: X for get open, A for come off screen, Y for go to post, and B for set screen. Once you've called the play, the highlighted player (indicated by a RB button icon above his head) will move accordingly based on the kind of play you called. Once the player is in position (wherever that may be) a button icon will appear. When you press the corresponding button, you'll pass the ball to him.

 

Sounds good so far, right? Well, it doesn't end there. Remember that RB button icon that appears over the player's head after you've brought up the menu with the LB button? By pressing the RB button, you can take control of that player. For example, let's say you're playing the Pistons and controlling Chauncey Billups. You can send Rip Hamilton toward the net by pressing the Y button then take control of Rip by pressing the RB button, move Rip toward the net, and press the button to pass the ball from Billups to Hamilton. And because you can select any player on the court with the D pad then take control of that player with the RB button, you could conceivably start the play with Chauncey, send Rip toward the net (controlled by the artificial intelligence), and take control of Richard Jefferson to provide some rebound help or an easy outlet pass.

 

When playing NBA 2K8, you might notice a small icon underneath a player's feet, one that looks suspiciously like cell phone reception bars. No, NBA 2K8 won't have LeBron asking if you can hear him now; instead, the cell icon represents your player's shot tendencies in the game and throughout different areas of the court. Deriving data from actual NBA games, the team at 2K has devised a system that will illustrate when a player is close to his hot spots on the floor, as well as whether that player is on a hot streak or not. When a player gets close to a hot spot on the floor, the cell phone bars increase; if he moves away from it, the bars will deplete. Hot or cold streaks are noted by the color of the bars in the icon. If you're lighting up J's from all over the floor, you can be sure your cell icon will be bright red before too long.

 

These features, coupled with a promised new batch of signature style animations, have us once again excited to tackle the next entry in the NBA 2K series. We should be getting a more detailed hands-on look at the game in the coming weeks and will be bringing you much more on NBA 2K8 in the coming weeks.

 

 

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with the D pad then take control of that player with the RB button, you could conceivably start the play with Chauncey, send Rip toward the net (controlled by the artificial intelligence), and take control of Richard Jefferson to provide some rebound help or an easy outlet pass.

 

err... why/how would you take control of the opposing team's player??

 

So have they officially moved on from the PS2 era, or will this come out on the ole trusty PS2 after all?

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It'll come out on PS2, PS3, and XBox 360. I just hope they keep some of the mini-games I heard were going to be on the 360 and PS3, cause sometimes they leave stuff like that outta the PS2 version

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I'll probably grab the 360 version soon after it comes out, I've been digging the 2k series since about 2k6, Live just hasn't been there the last couple years.

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with the D pad then take control of that player with the RB button, you could conceivably start the play with Chauncey, send Rip toward the net (controlled by the artificial intelligence), and take control of Richard Jefferson to provide some rebound help or an easy outlet pass.

 

err... why/how would you take control of the opposing team's player??

 

So have they officially moved on from the PS2 era, or will this come out on the ole trusty PS2 after all?

 

I'm sure they meant Richard Hamilton.

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I buy this at launch every year. Then remember I like the college game better and have to buy that and never play the pro game again.

 

And you know what...I am probably going to do the same thing this year.

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I'm going to be honest here, gang...I never use plays while on offense so I could really give a damn if they ever improve that aspect of a basketball game. I pretty much dunk, layup or shoot 3s all game. You should see my "scoring locations" cards at the end of each game...the paint is completely covered.

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I'm going to be honest here, gang...I never use plays while on offense so I could really give a damn if they ever improve that aspect of a basketball game. I pretty much dunk, layup or shoot 3s all game. You should see more my "scoring locations" cards at the end of each game...the paint is completely covered.

 

 

I run a quick pick and roll and honestly, thats the only play you need in basketball. There are like 30 ways to score from it, and I use every one.

 

I don't think I have run a play in the basketball game in a LONG time.

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http://vetzballin.com/modules.php?name=New...icle&sid=53

 

Many of you probably remember the first look Vetz got at NBA 2K8 this past July when we premiered their exclusive Black Top mode that featured the new Slam Dunk contest. Other than that, 2K Sports has been very hush, hush about their critically acclaimed basketball simulation. Well finally, Vetz got another look at 2K8 and while we had limited time with the game, we saw enough to know 2K isn't resting on their laurels one bit.

 

 

 

First off I'd like to thank Anthony Chau for taking the time for showing us a build of NBA 2K8 that was roughly 80% complete. The team is still working on nailing down the player motion to eliminate as much skating on the floor as was seen sometimes in last year's game. I mentioned to him that sometimes the isomotion moves weren't as smooth as they could've been last year, and you got stuck in canned animations as the moves were finishing. Something he agreed with and assured me that they were working on delivering as tight as player control as possible.

 

The first thing that jumped out at me was how well done the player models were looking, even from afar. Kevin Garnett looked exactly like himself, especially on post moves. From his body type, to the shape of his head, 2K nailed him. The movements of the player's shorts looked even more fluid than last year. On the announcing side Craig Sager, Kenny Smith and crew are back calling the action and from what I heard, the announcing sounds similiar to last year but they do have some new lines thrown in. Personally, I liked the crew, so this was good to see.

 

Gameplay. Aside from the overall game speed being a tad bit slower, the game moved very smoothly, and it was a upgrade from last year. Passing was improved as the ball moved crisply instead of those lazy passes you saw sometimes in 2K7. I still saw some players jumping for passes when catching the ball on the break, but this did not deter from the transistion game. Rebounding, sometimes a sore spot last year, seemed more intuitive this year as I didn't see any balls touch the court like we saw all too often in 2K7. Players really seemed more aggressive attacking the ball as it came off the rim. If you noticed that I keep comparing the game to last year, that's just to accentuate how much this game has improved over it's predecessor.

 

Another element that got a huge upgrade was the dual player control. If you remember last year, dual player was kind of hit and miss. Too many times you'd set a command for a player and the A.I. would fail to execute it correctly. This has been addressed this year by new off-ball controls which will give the player a lot more flexibility on the court. Essentially the system lets you chose a two-man play to run. For example, if I'm controlling my point guard, I'll first call the play (left bumper), and you'll see the four plays pop up, get open, come off a screen, got to the post or set a screen for another player. In this instance, I'll use Jamal Crawford here, I told him to run off a screen. I immediately saw Crawford highlighted (indicated by the 'rb" icon over his head) and he runs the play accordingly. In this case, Eddy Curry moved out to set the screen for Crawford to run off of. After Crawford reached the open spot on the floor, a button icon appeared over his head and you have to press the corresponding button to pass him the ball. It even goes further as you also have the option of taking control of Crawford before he makes his move. You can select any player on the court by using the D-pad, then you can call the play with the point guard. Still using Crawford as the example, say I highlighted him first (d-pad to select him, "rb" indicated highlighted player), I then have the option of taking control of him by pressing the "rb" bumper. I can still tell Crawford to come off the screen, but only this time I'll be controlling him and have to move accordingly as the play calls for. It may sound complicated at first, but after awhile it will become second nature.

 

Another thing Anthony stressed to me was, they wanted to make playing defense fun in NBA 2K8. As most of us remember, that could be quite a chore in 2K7 at times. This year the focus is on defense and improving the defensive controls. On display was the new lock-on defensive system that assists the user in playing tighter defense on the ball handler. To initiate it, you hold down the left trigger and you'll see a small target start pulsing under the player's feet. Once it's complete, your defender will be locked onto the ball handler. This system is tied into the defensive attributes of the players, so poor defenders will have a much harder time locking down the ball handler. When I said assists the user earlier, that means the CPU will kick in and help you play defense. This isn't to say ankles can't be broken anymore, as I saw a few players even locked on to the ball handler, still get beat off the dribble. But overall, I liked what I saw, the defenders played the ball handler a lot more agressively when you locked on. Keep in mind when the ball swings to another player, you'll have to initiate the lock down process all over again with the next player. So you'll want to choose wisely who you want to guard tighter.

 

NBA 2K8 also has a system that is an answer to NBA Live 08's hot spots. You'll notice under every player's feet a small icon that looks similiar to cell phone reception bars. The icon represents each player's shot tendecies at different areas of the court. This data was compliled from real life NBA data, to ensure every player plays as close to their real life counterpart as possible. This system will indicate when a player is close to his hot spots on the floor and whether he's hot or cold. As the player moves closer to his spot, the yellow bars in the start to fill up. So you can imagine that Rip Hamilton's icon was completely filled from any midrange shot on the floor. If a player gets hot, that is indicated by red bars in the icon. If you're laying bricks all over the court, the icon will have blue bars. I just want to stress that, just because a guy's icon is completely filled, that does not ensure that he will make the shot everytime. I saw Nash miss a few close ones inside despite him having the icon filled because the shot was contested. So these are just tendencies, not assurances.

 

A few misellaneous things I noticed:

 

- Free throw system has returned from 2K7

- on the fly subs are back

- Half time show has been scaled down considerably. Instead more of a focus was put into the post game wrap up. Kenny Smith will have the plays of the game and you also have the option of viewing any replay of any player that partcipated in that game. Want to show your boy that bogus foul on Marbury back in the first quarter? You can call that particular play up with a DVD-styled menu with the player's name highlighted.

 

- Association has been beefed up. Players now have roles that can adversely affect team chemistry. You might want to play that dynamite rookie you have, but it might be at some veteran player's expense. These kind of decisions will affect the team chemistry.

 

- Slam dunk contest had more players from what was seen last time. Added in were high flyers like David Thompson and Dr. J.

 

From what I've seen in the short time with the game, it has improved considerably from last year. In the coming weeks Vetz will have more coverage on the game as soon as possible. In the interim, stay tuned for an exclusive NBA developer interview that will cover any loose ends not in this preview. Look for that in about two weeks. NBA 2K8 releases on October 2nd, on the 360, PS3, Xbox and PS2 consoles.

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Best Association Mode Ever:

 

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/818/818513p1.html

 

NBA 2K8: Join The Association

This year, the key to a successful franchise is all about chemistry. Prepare for a science lesson.

by Hilary Goldstein

 

September 6, 2007 - The franchise mode in almost every sports game has suffered from the same problem: unrealistic and downright bad trade and player logic. Trades are just a matter of matching up ratings, signing free agents comes down to having enough to spend (since you're always first in line), and player morale is simplistic and often broken. NBA 2K8 may have the solution, with a revamped Association Mode that puts personality into every single NBA player and future draft pick.

 

Every player is assigned one of four personality types:

 

* Neutral: This covers the majority of NBA players. They don't suffer from many of the issues associated with the other three types. Examples: Michael Redd, Chris Paul, Shawn Marion

 

* Laid Back: This player doesn't often show emotion and usually ignores what others may perceive as an insult. At the same time, they aren't know for inspiring a team with their energy. Examples: Tim Duncan, Grant Hill, Ray Allen

 

* Expressive: When this player's not happy, you, the team, and the media know about it. But this player can also have a positive effect on a team so long as they are kept happy. These guys wear their emotions on their sleeves. Examples: Rasheed Wallace, Vince Carter, Sam Cassell

 

* Unpredictable: You just don't know what you are going to get with these types of players. They may suddenly lash out at a coach or just sit quietly and say everything is okay, even if it's not. Examples: Allen Iverson, Zach Randolph, Ron Artest

 

 

One personality isn't necessarily better than another. In fact, NBA 2K8 is designed so that, like a real hoops team, it's best to have a mix of personalities. A team full of Laid Back players will be just that -- laid back. Team chemistry and morale, while less likely to go sour, will also build far slower without some energetic personalities. On the other hand, two big stars that are both Expressive may clash. But a Batman & Robin tandem of an Expressive point guard and a Laid Back small forward may be able to work some real magic over their careers together. Managing the personas of your players and creating the right blend for your team will be crucial to succeeding in The Association.

 

 

Player personalities are only one half of the mix that makes The Association look so promising this year. For the first time, users can define every player's role on the team. Depending on a player's persona, their overall rating, and career, they will have specific expectations of the role they should play on a team. That includes number of minutes played, but also factors in how they are being utilized on the court.

 

There are five roles that can be set for players. Each role includes several potential sub-roles that further define player expectations. In this way, you can have five starters that each have an understanding of their place on the team (that doesn't mean they have to be happy about it):

 

Starter: This player expects to be in the starting five of every game and play a significant amount of minutes.

 

* I want you to be the star of the team.

* Your position as a starter is guaranteed.

* You're replaceable if an upgrade comes along.

 

 

6th Man: Usually the first man off the bench, these guys are often good enough to be starters and are the leaders on the court when substitutions are made. And yes, you can have more than one 6th Man on a team.

 

* We need you to bring some energy off the bench.

* You might not be a starter, but playing time will be ample.

* You will have plenty of opportunities to prove yourself.

 

 

Role Player: This might be a defensive specialist or perimeter shooter -- someone who is on the team to perform a very specific function.

 

* We need some energy and depth off the bench.

* Your minutes will be limited, but you will get a chance.

* We need your versatility off the bench; playing time will be sporadic.

* Our young players need a mentor; playing time will be limited.

 

 

Prospect: This is someone who has a great deal of potential, but isn't quite ready for a full-time job in the NBA. They expect to play a few minutes each night, but won't carry much of the load.

 

* You will have a solid career, but you're not ready yet.

* We believe in you, but you need more time to develop.

 

 

Bench Warmer: These scrubs are the Jack Haleys of the NBA, there to fill out the 12-man roster and clap a lot on the pine.

 

* Playing time will be very limited.

* You will only see playing time if we get hit with injuries.

* We need you to fill out the roster.

 

Personality and player roles factor into almost every aspect of The Association. Let's say you are playing as the Celtics and, just to be a jerk, you decide to make KG a Role Player. Because of his rating, KG knows he should be a starter. If KG were an explosive personality, this could become trouble instantly. But since KG is Laid Back, he may bite his lip and just take it. But his morale will slowly tumble. And if the team begins to lose with KG riding pine (even in sims, you can designate the number of minutes players are on the court), the team chemistry will start to sour. And if team chemistry drops, some of the more hot-headed players on the team may start having an adverse reaction. All of this as a result of your benching a player who expects (and deserves) to be a starter.

 

This also factors into signing and trading players. Let's say you decide to bench Paul Pierce for a few games. He may become so upset that he demands a trade. In fact, you can damage the relationship so much that it will be very difficult to regain Pierce's trust. What can you do but trade him? Problem is, the AI knows Paul Pierce is demanding a trade. So, with your hand forced, Pierce's trade value plummets. And should you keep Pierce, it will cost you quite a lot of cash to convince him to resign.

 

When signing free agents or even re-signing players currently on your team, you'll have to do more than just offer cash. You can also include a no trade clause, player and team options, and define the role/sub-role. You can try and over-promise a player a role to get them at a lower value, but you may end up screwing yourself later if they don't get the minutes. In this way, players are called on their BS signing tactics that allowed them to easily overload a team with talent.

 

 

Age and a player's history also play a part in contract negotiations. Younger players are usually more interested in getting a big pay day, even if it means playing on a sub-par team.But an older player who hasn't won a ring may take less money and a reduced role to be on a good team. And yes, you team's winning percentage does factor into player decisions. So Golden State will have a tougher time attracting a superstar than Phoenix.

 

Free agency is going to be a bit tougher on GMs this year. In the past, you had first dibs on every player out there. Now there are days and weeks of negotiations where a player weighs a variety of offers. Your Lakers may be able to offer Gilbert Arenas more cash than the Pistons, but will you risk promising Agent Zero a role equal or greater than Kobe's? Doing so could create a major disaster by mid-season.

 

Once the signing process is over and you've drafted your rookies (each with their own personalities and expectations), it's time for training camp. There are more than a dozen different training regiments to increase the aspects of a player's game. Throughout the previous season, you've earned Reward Points for completing specific tasks (win the Championship, be named Coach of the Year, etc.). These points are then spent to train your players. Put some extra weight on Shaq just for laughs or try and improve D-Wade's perimeter defense. It's up to you.

 

In theory, all of these elements should make for a dynamic and realistic franchise mode. How well all of this works over the course of several seasons remains to be seen. But, from our time fooling around with The Association, it appears 2K is going to give gamers something special this October.

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Just bought the game. Should get some play time in tonight. From the controls I do notice that the lead pass is gone and there is this new button called "Get Open". Interested in seeing what it is.

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They really shouldn't have put that demo out. The graphics are much better, the game plays ALOT smoother.

 

I guess it being only 325mb should have clued me in, but alot of animations and graphics were out to make it that small. It might have cost them sales.

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I thought it was bigger than 325? It may have only been that size since they only needed the two rosters (LeBron was lighting me up), but yeah, the controls were very unresponsive to me. It would be hitting the "jump" button and then waiting a second, and then Duncan jumping.

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This game is pretty freakin awsome, although I still have no idea what that get open button does.

 

The only gripe I have is the complete lack of manual. Yes, the game comes with that barebones thing that helps none at all, and there is no in game manual that I can find.

 

Way too many blown layups at the basket too. But besides that...great great game and definately an improvement over last year(which was pretty freakin good).

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The get open button is supposed let you switch to a guy off-ball I think, from what I've read.

 

I'll probably get the game when I get PS3.

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Alright, a full(ish) review of the game after a few days of playing.

 

Presentation:

 

Great. There were just so many things I didn't like about the presentation of the 2k game for the last few years, but now it is pretty gourgeous. The menues aren't as dumb, the Half time and post games shows are great. Not only do you get player of the game, they have top 3 plays, and you can see individual highlights for each player that played. The only downside is that they consider rebounds a highlight, but not passes or blocks or steals. So basically you get a highlight package of every rebound and alot of the points. As with last year, you can view the replay for shot or rebound or block in the game and save them for the (now free) Reelmaker and make your own highlight films.

 

The commentary is very much improved, with Kenny and Kevin and Craig all saying very team specific or player specific things. This is a little odd in a franchise where you did a fantasy draft (I was playing the Celtics who had Luel Deng on the team and they were talking about how the bulls wouldn't give him up for Pau Gasol...who also was his teammate). Another odd thing is that it sounds like Kevin Harland had a cold or something one day and his voice gets really deep sometimes that screws up the flow of the commentary. Besides that, this is some great commentary and not nearly as many repeats as last year.

 

Graphics:

 

Mixed bag. Close ups and replays you can see some jaggies and the player faces are REALLY hit or miss. The player models are definately less resolution than the last two years(2k6 had the highest and its been getting less and less per year) The Textures don't seem to be as high res as before either. But I personally don't care because I don't play the game 3 inchs from the player. In the regular viewing distance it is a incredible incredible looking game. The arenas, the lighting, the crowd (again, from a distance) all look great. Mostly because of the incredible animations. If you thought that they had good animations last year, you haven't seen anything yet. Everything is amazingly realistic and you can see where they had to scale back the player models to get this stuff in. From the shots, to the way a player dribbles and passes, you can feel the individuality on the player. In previous years of any basketball games, playing as Steve Nash or Jason Kidd just meant that people probably weren't going to be able to steal the ball from you as much and you wouldn't throw many passes away. Thats about it. This year, just cut across the lane and toss a over the shoulder pass to the cutter and you will see what I mean.

 

Kidd and Nash simply make passes that others in the game simply can't and you can feel the advantage of having them as your point guard. The same with the post games of players, their dunking abilites and such.

 

They also have added some cool animations like hard fouls when you chase down a fast breaking player. Its a realistic addition and I always hated not being able to stop a guy that only had one step on me. In the post, smaller guards will wrap up a big man if they are in bad position so not to giveup the easy bucket.

 

You can throw the ball off the defenders leg when you are doubled, which is awesome, and there is some way to grab the ball for a jump ball, which thanks to a non existant instruction book, I have no idea how to do, but I will figure it out.

 

Gameplay: The Isomotion is somewhat different because of the new foot planting system in the game. Unlike the usual "ice skate" feel of basketball games, your feet have to actually hit the floor to do the things that you have to do. This effects alot of ISO motion first. Once you get the hang of the dribble moves (look for the thread on 2ksports.com since the "instructions" that come with the game are pure shit) its great and easy to use but some will not like them at first. You can do crossovers and such just using the movement stick, or get different moves with the right trigger or tapping the left trigger. If you don't like that, the have the EZ-motion option where you can map it to the B button(360) of your controller.

 

Off the ball controls are great. You can individually select a player and tell him to either come off a screen (great for midrange shooters), set a pick(the beautiful pick and roll) post up or "get open" which is still confusing the hell out of me. Given time, they will fight over screens, run around and do anything to get open, but its just to random for me. There is also a get open button and it does pretty much the same thing. Not get used by me.

 

Passing wise, the lead pass button is gone, but your passes are usually the correct one for the situation. You just don't have 100 percent control over that anymore. You can still map the passes to the right analog (which I loved) and still use the shot stick if you hold the Left trigger. This can be really awsome with practice, being able to run, pass and shoot with only the two analogs. The Post game has some nice new moves and is implemented very well in the game.

 

 

Defensively can actually defend the post now!!!! You can poke the ball away with a steal (the guy being posted up!) or you can lean to a side and if the player tries to spin that way, you can get their first and take the charge.

Basically the post defense isn't a pray to god they don't score function anymore. Foot planting comes in to play on defense as you can't just go leaping into the air for every block, so you are going to have to get timing down (get the realism!) You are actually going to have to plant a foot or feet to jump and go through a jumping motion if you expect to get some height on the jump and try to block a shot.

 

Rebounding has been retoolled and THANK GOD. The players jump for the ball now, instead of hoping the ball lands in your hands. Plus better rebounders really do get more boards (grabbed 18 the other day with David Lee and 21 the next game.)

 

The Lock on D feature has been a mixed bag. On one had, its pretty cool, but some players can lock on that shouldn't be able too. There is no reason I shouldn't be able to blow by Shaq at will with steve Nash. You can get by him, but he puts up a better fight than he should. For you, the Lock on D can be great, but it is beatable and when they get by it, you better have some help D because he is GONE. Overall, I like, although I don't use it all the time.

 

AI is fucking genius. Your teamates and the computer just plain know how to play basketball. If you suck at this game it isn't the computer controlled players faults. Its probably you. This is the best CPU challenge I have ever had in a best ball game. They set back picks, they take charges, they run plays beautifully and will keep running it until you stop it. On defense, they rotate, they contest shots, they double the hot man aggressively...just beautiful. This is just a real basketball game.

 

Extras:

 

This features an NBA blacktop which I would have prefered be left out the game. Don't get me wrong, its fun, but the addtion of this is space that could have been used to beef up the player models and such. The dunk contest, once you get the hang of it, is pretty awesome. Its tough to get down, so be ready, but once you get it down, you will wonder why you struggled so much at first. There is also a 3 point shootout, and street ball games, which once again, are cool and feature the street basketball moves, but I never really play it and probably never will. I kinda enjoyed the 24-7 feature last year, but they took it out for this.

 

 

Overall, this game is awesome. As a frame of reference, I gave 2k7 a 7.5 out of 10, so I would give this years a 8.8. It loses some points because of alot of blown layups that require you to change the slider and the iffy lock on D feature, but besides that, it is with out a doubt the best basketball game I have ever played.

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I went to Best Buy this morning to get this, and they didn't have any left. After reading this review I will be taking a ride to another Best Buy nearby tonight.

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No problem. I have no intention of playing anyone that I don't know this year. Last year I got bad feedback every time I beat someone, or had to deal with the people that would use every exploit to play a cheap, boring game.

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