Indy wrestlers need to tone it down a notch

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Between Danielson, Mark Briscoe, and Delirious, ROH is terribly disgusting.

 

 

How so?

[bob_barron 0]

I think he means for letting wrestlers wrestle when they clearly shouldn't be

[Bix 0]

I think he means for letting wrestlers wrestle when they clearly shouldn't be

Yes, and Rod Strong, after being told to "go home" by loopy Delirious, went on with their planned angle and powerbombed him on a guardrail.

[tigeraid 0]

Mark Briscoe was medically cleared to wrestle one week BEFORE he got back in the ring.

 

Danielson was medically cleared and, more importantly, both he and Morishima will know how to protect the eye.

 

And I'd rather have relatively healthy, clean, roid-free wrestlers in the ring with an injury that's been medically cleared than roided up freaks hobbling around working through a variety of injuries all at once.

[Bix 0]

1.

2. If Mark Briscoe isn't on steroids, then I'm not breathing air.

 

[tigeraid 0]

1.

2. If Mark Briscoe isn't on steroids, then I'm not breathing air.

 

Sure, but what makes you more qualfied than even Dr. Riviera to say when either of them are safe to wrestle?

[Bix 0]

I didn't say I was, but I suspect that a doctor who clears someone to wrestle and do the same stupid dangerous spots just over 1 week after suffering a seizure-inducing concussion, a fucking TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURY, is not a very good one.

[theintensifier 0]

I'm wondering if it was the same Doctor who helped out Ultimo Dragon with his arm injury?

 

Regardless if Briscoe WAS cleared by an actual doctor, and not some hired ROH "doctor", the seriousness of the concussion Briscoe suffered would detail at least a month to three months off.

 

And taking advantage of an injured worker isn't very honorable.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

I'm wondering if it was the same Doctor who helped out Ultimo Dragon with his arm injury?

 

Regardless if Briscoe WAS cleared by an actual doctor, and not some hired ROH "doctor", the seriousness of the concussion Briscoe suffered would detail at least a month to three months off.

 

And taking advantage of an injured worker isn't very honorable.

Or maybe he just got lucky and didn't get as hurt as he should have considering how botched that SSP was.

[theintensifier 0]

He had a seisure induced concussion Cheesa. That alone merits a few months off so the brain can be monitored.

[bob_barron 0]

Not when it's time to man up

[geniusMoment 0]

Bottom line is ROH fanboys will never admit to their promotion doing anything wrong. It wouldn't matter if Briscoe died in the ring at the next show as a result of his last concussion, they still wouldn't hold ROH even slightly responsible. Whereas if it had been WWE everyone would be claiming that they had a responsibility to investigate possible brain damage. It's just the way it is.

[DangerousDamon 0]

The scary thing about Mark Briscoe's injury is that they made an angle out of his concussion by having Generico and Steen do all their crazy headdrop suplexes on him, just weeks after the botched SSP.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Bottom line is ROH fanboys will never admit to their promotion doing anything wrong. It wouldn't matter if Briscoe died in the ring at the next show as a result of his last concussion, they still wouldn't hold ROH even slightly responsible. Whereas if it had been WWE everyone would be claiming that they had a responsibility to investigate possible brain damage. It's just the way it is.

 

I'm an ROH fanboy and I think Briscoe should've been given more time off.

[Brocklock 0]

The stiffness in the indies is starting to get kind of sickening. I mean I feel guilty for even watching a Low-Ki match or a Necro Butcer or Jack Evans match in the wake of the Benoit stuff. Sure, I still enjoy them, but I do feel guilty.

 

Plus, their's the douches like Davey Richards, BJ Whitmer, and Rocky Romero in ROH who wrestle the LOOK AT ME, I'M STIFF AS FUCK style that really pisses me off. Trying to emulate Low-Ki or KENTA won't end up good for these wrestlers safety. These tools should switch to a new style or something.

 

That's why I enjoy CHIKARA since they seem to use a more lucha based style. I've been loving Lucha especially some of what AAA has been doing this year as well.

[Rendclaw 0]

Come on now folks, you all know as well as I do that a lot of Japanese wrestlers (with some of the higher-ups in NOAH) work tremendously stiff. And there are several Amercian ones that do the same. Getting mad at Mori for working stiff is like getting mad at the next human being you see for breathing. That's how they do it.

 

And yes, Danielson has been known to work stiff for years. His matches with Low-Ki back in ROH's early days are a gold standard for stiffness in American pro wrestling.

 

That all being said, there is a trend going on of "go stiff or go home" in wrestling, with the excpetion of the E, of course. I am agreement that wrestlers should protect themselves in the ring at all times, from chops to the chest to strikes to (and especially) chair shots and floor bumps. But I think it was Jingus who made the point of professional wrestling just breaking down the body to where injuries can and will just happen. It is a work for sure, but its still high physical stress, stress that the human body was not built to withstand.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Plus, their's the douches like Davey Richards, BJ Whitmer, and Rocky Romero in ROH who wrestle the LOOK AT ME, I'M STIFF AS FUCK style that really pisses me off. Trying to emulate Low-Ki or KENTA won't end up good for these wrestlers safety. These tools should switch to a new style or something.

 

Why are you so against Richards, BJ, or Rocky but okay with Low-Ki or KENTA working stiff?

[tigeraid 0]

What's funny is, I can't remember a single time that working stiff caused injury in the last several years, other than this one with Dragon, which was a freak accident. And I don't count bleeding or welts on the chest or back as injury. Briscoe's SSP to the floor has nothing to do with stiff, it's just a high risk move that he fucked up. But in terms of stiff kicks and forearms, I've never seen them deal a particularly big injury.

 

On the other hand, Botchtista tears eighteen muscles and breaks a rib (or whatever) just picking a guy up for a power bomb... Vince McMahon tears BOTH QUADS WALKING DOWN A RAMP, and HHH and Kevin Nash both bust shit up just by walking across the ring. I gotta go with stiff work over roided up catastrophes any day.

 

EDIT: I take that back--Nigel breaking Rave's jaw with the Lariat. That's another one. Though again, the severity with which he hit wasn't so much the problem, it was the fuck up on either his part of Rave's that made the Lariat hit too high.

[Bix 0]

What's funny is, I can't remember a single time that working stiff caused injury in the last several years, other than this one with Dragon, which was a freak accident. And I don't count bleeding or welts on the chest or back as injury. Briscoe's SSP to the floor has nothing to do with stiff, it's just a high risk move that he fucked up. But in terms of stiff kicks and forearms, I've never seen them deal a particularly big injury.

- Homicide rupturing Steve Corino's eardrum

- Gran Akuma? (or whoever it was) rupturing Jimmy Rave's eardrum

- Danny Inferno breaking CM Punk's nose & rupturing his eardrum in the same match

- Samoa Joe concussing a Ballard twin.

- Samoa Joe concussing Kurt Angle.

- Samoa Joe concussing KENTA, KENTA or Joe concussing Bryan Danielson, and Danielson or KENTA rupturing Joe's eardrum, all in the same match.

- Low-Ki concussing Dan Maff.

- Whatever the hell Low-Ki did to Kid Sensation to make him vomit blood.

- Yoshihiro Takayama accumulates numerous brain injuries leading to a cerebral thrombosis after his G-1 match with Kensuke Sasaki.

- Naohiro Hoshikawa's 2nd concussion in a few minutes comes from a stiff lariat, he suffers severe brain damage and forgets most of his life.

- Chris Benoit uses shoot headbutts often, suffers severe brain damage, and kills his family before taking his own life.

 

I'm sure I'm forgetting many more.

[theintensifier 0]

Misawa had his orbital broken by Kawada.

Hansen broke Kobashi's orbital and nose.

RVD broke Angle's nose.

RVD broke Austin's nose.

Misawa's head broke Kawada's arm.

Perry Saturn broke some jobbers nose and blew out his ACL.

[tigeraid 0]

What's funny is, I can't remember a single time that working stiff caused injury in the last several years, other than this one with Dragon, which was a freak accident. And I don't count bleeding or welts on the chest or back as injury. Briscoe's SSP to the floor has nothing to do with stiff, it's just a high risk move that he fucked up. But in terms of stiff kicks and forearms, I've never seen them deal a particularly big injury.

- Homicide rupturing Steve Corino's eardrum

- Gran Akuma? (or whoever it was) rupturing Jimmy Rave's eardrum

- Danny Inferno breaking CM Punk's nose & rupturing his eardrum in the same match

- Samoa Joe concussing a Ballard twin.

- Samoa Joe concussing Kurt Angle.

- Samoa Joe concussing KENTA, KENTA or Joe concussing Bryan Danielson, and Danielson or KENTA rupturing Joe's eardrum, all in the same match.

- Low-Ki concussing Dan Maff.

- Whatever the hell Low-Ki did to Kid Sensation to make him vomit blood.

- Yoshihiro Takayama accumulates numerous brain injuries leading to a cerebral thrombosis after his G-1 match with Kensuke Sasaki.

- Naohiro Hoshikawa's 2nd concussion in a few minutes comes from a stiff lariat, he suffers severe brain damage and forgets most of his life.

- Chris Benoit uses shoot headbutts often, suffers severe brain damage, and kills his family before taking his own life.

 

I'm sure I'm forgetting many more.

 

Intensifier: I did say recently, not 1990s All-Japan.

 

As for your list Bix, the majority of those were accidents that had little to do with how hard they hit. Homicide accidentally hit Corino's ear instead of the side of his head--the strength of the strike really doesn't matter. Neither does Gran Akuma on Rave, or Low Ki concussing Dan Maff, or Joe concussing Angle, or whatever... these go in the same category as concussions from headdrops--reckless, poorly aimed accidents. Not a result of their style.

 

Hoshikawa's is definitely a good example, as is Benoit's, as is most of Takiyama's problems--I would call those exceptions to the rule.

 

The only way these accidents occurred was from poor aim, not from the style of wrestling. If stiff strikes were the reason this sort of thing happened, it would literally be happening EVERY night in the ring. A stiff forearm to the side of the face, or a chop or stiff kick to the back or chest is not dangerous--period. Broken noses happen ALLLLL the time in "non-stiff" wrestling too, as to busted lips, black eyes and cauliflower ears. The only way whatsoever that accidents like this can be prevented is if everyone did Hulk Hogan "hold-his-forehead-and-punch-my-hand" moves. And I'm sorry, I don't want that.

[theintensifier 0]

I know, just adding to the list.

 

I'm in the middle of the road on this discussion. I enjoy stiff matches like in AJPW, NOAH, ROH, like everyone else. However, there's got to be a point in time where the men and women that are entertaining us have to realise that they can have just as good of a match if they actually wrestle. Anyone can throw a hard elbow, kick, forearm smash, etc. Not many can tear it up on the mat anymore.

 

As I said before, there's no real reason why Morishima and Danielson were stiffing each other, other than to just do it. It's unreasonable, and not necessary. They had no real rhyme nor reason to be trying to kill each other, instead of just winning the contest. Morishima didn't backdrop suplex Danielson's father, hold him down for years and years, drag his fathers casket through a cemetry, rape his girlfriend, etc. Morishima was mad because Danielson touched his belt. That's WWF quality feud shit. I expect better from ROH.

[Mecha Mummy 0]

Yes, injuries do occur. But is there really any reason why Morishima and Danielson were going at it like they've been feuding for a decade?

 

 

This Danielson pirate has potential you know. There's just one thing missing. Do you guys reckon he could grow a beard?

 

Didn't Danielson used to have a pirate gimmick back in the northwest?

 

 

... sorry. Carry on, as you were.

[Jacques 0]

- According to Dr. Keith Lipinski, Matt Sydal suffered a concussion over the weekend in his final ROH match vs. Delirious.

 

Credit: Inside Pulse

[Bix 0]

The only way whatsoever that accidents like this can be prevented is if everyone did Hulk Hogan "hold-his-forehead-and-punch-my-hand" moves. And I'm sorry, I don't want that.

 

Yet they were barely touching each other, because they LEARNED HOW TO WORK.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Concussions are a common thing in pro wrestling. I was training for three months and got two in one night.

[Bix 0]

Concussions are a common thing in pro wrestling. I was training for three months and got two in one night.

Yeah...that's really bad. If you got a third (and you probably did), then you have permanent brain damage. RESPECT FOR THE BIZ~~!!!!!!!!11111!!!!!!111111111

[King Cucaracha 0]

- According to Dr. Keith Lipinski, Matt Sydal suffered a concussion over the weekend in his final ROH match vs. Delirious.

 

Credit: Inside Pulse

 

See, that's the thing with Delirious. He's a danger to anyone he gets into the ring with. Seriously, the guy works far too strong for my liking. All those stiff, unprotected kicks that he does? Wow. Or all the shoot headbutts? Somebody was going to get hurt sooner or later with someone who works as stiff as Delirious does! Oh me, oh my.

 

Considering my track record in the thread so far, I'd like to take the opportunity to point out I was being sarcastic. Thank you.

 

 

I'm on the fence too. The majority of wrestlers hit hard but aren't what you'd call reckless. You're kicking someone and it's going to hurt but you're trying to kick them in place it shouldn't do serious damage. Should guys tone it down? Yeah, probably.

 

Why don't they? Listen to your average crowd next time someone doesn't hit as chop as hard as a Roderick Strong or kick as hard as a Low Ki. It's either a boo or silence. There's the problem. Fans are demanding of 'noise' on strikes and a lot of guys simply can't work any other way than to provide it, over and over. Really good workers can. Colt Cabana never had the problem either way. Nor Sydal. Delirious? Chuck Taylor? Quackenbush? Adam Pearce? Jimmy Jacobs? None of them need to be STRONG STYLE~ to get a reaction out of a crowd. I'd rather watch them wrestle than Low Ki or BJ Whitmer or Morishima. There's a point there somewhere.

[Scroby 0]

Concussions are a common thing in pro wrestling. I was training for three months and got two in one night.

You didn't tuck your chin, did you?

[Jingus 0]

Nice attempt to no-sell getting completely pwn3d by Bix there, tiger.

As for your list Bix, the majority of those were accidents that had little to do with how hard they hit. Homicide accidentally hit Corino's ear instead of the side of his head--the strength of the strike really doesn't matter.

Bullshit. You have to make some pretty serious impact on someone's ear in order to rupture the drum. On the other hand you could have Bret Hart's worked punches "pound" on your ear for an hour straight and not be hurt at all.

 

Neither does Gran Akuma on Rave, or Low Ki concussing Dan Maff, or Joe concussing Angle, or whatever... these go in the same category as concussions from headdrops--reckless, poorly aimed accidents. Not a result of their style.

The headdrops are part of what everyone here's bitching about.

 

A stiff forearm to the side of the face, or a chop or stiff kick to the back or chest is not dangerous--period.

Absolute bullshit and complete ignorance of the laws of physics and biology.