Examples of a Wrestler TRULY Being Put Over

[cabbageboy 0]

I don't think Angle got much from beating The Rock in 2000 to be honest. The whole goofy Rikishi storyline overshadowed that match and the run in kept Angle from gaining a hell of a lot from it.

 

As far as Goldberg/Hogan goes, that is a bit abstract. I do think Hogan put him over big time that night in the Georgia Dome, but the problem was that Bischoff had all these goofy celeb matches lined up that he naturally wanted as the main events to draw publicity. Goldberg's very gimmick at that point with the win streak precluded him from having a compelling feud....it was all "Beat this guy's ass, then move to someone else." The Goldberg/Jericho mini feud could have been interesting, but for some reason Bischoff didn't want to simply job Jericho out. Which is curious considering that they jobbed Jericho frequently in his last 6 months in WCW.

[Diamonddust 0]

Speaking of Jericho, I know it's not a match and all... but his debut in the WWE with The Rock did a lot to give him an instant rub. It was one of the better debuts the WWE ever did.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

I can't think of anybody that put over more people than Tommy Dreamer did. Nowadays, a win over Dreamer doesn't mean shit. But in the glory days of ECW, a win over Dreamer meant that you were going to be a big name in ECW. Yes, I know that they were already monster heels, but would the Dudley Boyz have been nearly as effective had they not broken Beulah's neck and subsequently laid Dreamer out? Would CW Anderson have meant anything AT ALL in the company's last few months were it not for the win over Dreamer? Would Lance Storm have been looked at as a legit threat to the World title if he didn't beat Dreamer at Hardcore Heaven '99? And Justin Credible...yeah...nevermind.

 

A great example of putting somebody over without losing is RVD/Lynn from Living Dangerously '99. Much better than the Hardcore Heaven '99 match that everybody seems to cream themselves over when talking about the Lynn/RVD feud, and it helped Lynn get over that much more than HHeaven did. The time limit draw. Alfonso's constant interference. Molineaux getting ready to award the belt to Lynn, only for Lynn to demand 5 more minutes to prove he could pin Van Dam. Hell, RVD even did something out of character (as far as his then-ECW character of the laid-back cocky guy) and said that Jerry gave him the best run for his money he's had yet as TV champ. It's because of that feud that Lynn is even remembered as anything more than an above-average cruiserweight.

[cabbageboy 0]

Well, the thing is the finish to that Living Dangerously match is beyond any level of retarded. I remember watching that PPV with a group of people and everyone was baffled as to why the ref thought he could just give the challenger the belt on a time limit draw. It was playing off the goofy Holyfield/Lewis boxing match. The Hardcore Heaven rematch had a bit more stalling in the first 5 minutes but is more satisfying overall. That said, yeah the LD match did initially get Lynn over as more than a token JTTS challenger.

 

I still say the best RVD/Lynn match was from TNN in Sept. 1999, the one with Lynn having the broken ribs that were taped up. One of the best matches ever to air on ECW TV and I sorta wish they have given Lynn the belt there since the ECW Arena was ready to explode if he had won.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

Was the ECW on TNN Lynn-RVD match at the Arena? I coulda swore that was at Hammerstein, but either way when that went the entire hour and ended with the Impact Players run-in, I was pissed -- and not in a "damn this booking" type way, but a "damn those heels!" mark-out kinda way.

 

Corey, your mentioning Dreamer got me to thinking about his big title win in the spring of 2000. Boy the end of that sucked. Him losing the title IMMEDIATELY made sense because it went with Tommy's character, but god, why did it have to be Justin Credible??? I still can never grasp why Paul E. was so hellbent on getting Credible over. Looking at his ECW rap sheet is ludicrous: he got Sandman's cane, Sasuke's mask, beat Sid out of the company, had a long title reign. But beyond the Impact Players (which I admittedly loved) he seemed to be heatless with the fanbase.

[Ginger Snaps 0]

I think Undertaker helped put Brock over in the Hell in a Cell as much as The Rock or Hogan did in their respective matches.

 

LOL.

 

Taker has no business in this thread.

[Diamonddust 0]

I think Undertaker helped put Brock over in the Hell in a Cell as much as The Rock or Hogan did in their respective matches.

 

LOL.

 

Taker has no business in this thread.

 

Even though Taker was already over, him squashing Jake Roberts like a bug did a lot for him in the long run.

[cabbageboy 0]

Corkscrew, you are thinking of a different match. In fact that was the previous week where RVD/Lynn faced off at Hammerstein and the run in happened with the Impact Players. The rematch of that is what I am talking about, which was back at the ECW Arena. Impact Players attacked Lynn before the match (in reality Lynn had fallen stomach first onto a tack at Hammerstein, hence the taped ribs). Most of RVD's offense centered on hitting the rib area anyway, so it gave the match added psychology....at one point RVD puts Lynn through a table and Lynn had to be taken away to the back. But wait! He refused to go back and comes back to the ring to continue...crowd goes nuts! Eventually Van Dam put him away with a Van Daminator. A part of me wishes they had put Lynn over there, maybe do an inconclusive rematch, and then move RVD on to the ECW world title.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

Corkscrew, you are thinking of a different match. In fact that was the previous week where RVD/Lynn faced off at Hammerstein and the run in happened with the Impact Players. The rematch of that is what I am talking about, which was back at the ECW Arena. Impact Players attacked Lynn before the match (in reality Lynn had fallen stomach first onto a tack at Hammerstein, hence the taped ribs). Most of RVD's offense centered on hitting the rib area anyway, so it gave the match added psychology....at one point RVD puts Lynn through a table and Lynn had to be taken away to the back. But wait! He refused to go back and comes back to the ring to continue...crowd goes nuts! Eventually Van Dam put him away with a Van Daminator. A part of me wishes they had put Lynn over there, maybe do an inconclusive rematch, and then move RVD on to the ECW world title.

 

Wow, I can't believe I blanked on that match! Good call.

[Kardo 0]

When I think put over and jobbing, for some reason I think THE ROCK.

 

Is it fair to say he tried to make Jericho a star TWICE within 6 months? I think he truly put over Jericho as a World Champion when he beat him for the WCW title and when he established him as a heel at the Royal Rumble. It's too bad Austin and HHH sandbagged Jericho from a great run as world champion.

 

No way, the finish for the No Mercy match killed Jericho's credibility from the start. Had he won clean and beaten him again, then you could make a case, but the Jericho lame duck booking began there when they just didn't put him over The Rock.

[haws bah gawd 0]

Does the Rock jobbing to Goldberg at Backlash 2003 count as someone being put over?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Does the Rock jobbing to Goldberg at Backlash 2003 count as someone being put over?

No. That match was booked all wrong for Goldberg. It went too long and he sold too much. Goldberg works best in short, explosive matches where he doesn't have to sell a lot. It's not that he's bad at selling, it's that the crowd die when he starts selling. They don't want to see it. They want Goldberg to generally kick someone's ass around the ring, maybe sell a little, and then fire back and hit the jackhammer for the win.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

True story: Goldberg vs Hogan actually pissed me off quite a bit at the time. I did a conference call with my telephone hotline pal James "The Tiger" Jones and ranted about it on our Detroit wrestling hotline. Why? Because Goldberg didn't sell Hogan's leg drop and basically squashed him. I thought it was disrespectful to Hogan. Kinda funny looking back.

 

I'm trying to think of modern day WWE examples of a big put over, but even steven booking (with most guys) renders a lot of it obsolete in the long run. However, I believe the Cena vs HBK feud was really helpful to John; I really came around to not hating him after his summer feud with Edge and thought he had a good run with Umaga, but I still wanted him to lose to Shawn. They had a good match at WrestleMania where Shawn tapped out (and I don't recall him acting childish about it) and even though he was given his win back 3 weeks later, it was Cena losing probably his longest match ever going toe to toe with Michaels. I was dissapointed when Shawn's injury prevented it from continuing as a summer program.

[Boxer 0]

Does the Rock jobbing to Goldberg at Backlash 2003 count as someone being put over?

No. That match was booked all wrong for Goldberg. It went too long and he sold too much. Goldberg works best in short, explosive matches where he doesn't have to sell a lot. It's not that he's bad at selling, it's that the crowd die when he starts selling. They don't want to see it. They want Goldberg to generally kick someone's ass around the ring, maybe sell a little, and then fire back and hit the jackhammer for the win.

 

I think may things killed Goldberg that night. I agree with the NON quick finish to the match. It should've been just 2-5 minutes.

Secondly, they changed his look. Black trunks and black boots are all Goldberg needs.

Lastly, changing his music totally killed him. If he still had the WCW theme music it could've work.

 

On one quick note, I think the promo The Rock cut before the match also killed the momentum. Calling him "good ol' whisker biscuit" and I think he called him "punk ass bitch" too right? That totally got the Rock over Goldberg which was the exact OPPOSITE formula they needed.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

On one quick note, I think the promo The Rock cut before the match also killed the momentum. Calling him "good ol' whisker biscuit" and I think he called him "punk ass bitch" too right? That totally got the Rock over Goldberg which was the exact OPPOSITE formula they needed.

This is classic example of why Rock cut great entertainment promos, but terrible wrestling promos.

[Corkscrew_Senton 0]

God, the Goldberg WWE run was like Vince McMahon's final FUCK YOU to WCW fans.

[alfdogg 0]

Rock was probably the least selfish superstar in the business. I think *his* intentions were good; Jericho and Goldberg's fallbacks were due to other factors already mentioned (the lame duck booking for Jericho, as well as HTQ's points on Goldberg), as well as HHH burying everyone that Rock worked to get over.

 

EDIT: The exception here is Brock Lesnar, who of course moved to SD exclusively pretty much right after SummerSlam.

Edited September 13, 2007 by alfdogg

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

It's probably a meaningless coincidence but I find it funny that the guy the Rock had the most limited interaction with in that Evolution vs Rock n Sock handicap match at Mania is the guy HHH works to get over (Batista).

[Hawk 34 0]

It's probably a meaningless coincidence but I find it funny that the guy the Rock had the most limited interaction with in that Evolution vs Rock n Sock handicap match at Mania is the guy HHH works to get over (Batista).

 

Well, at the time, I don't think WWE nor HHH had seen Batista as a guy to push to the forefront of the company.

[Boxer 0]

What about Warrior over Hogan? Can we all agree that right there was a rare job Hogan did but Warrior failed so bad, that it is hardly mentioned anymore.

 

I think Goldust taking an ass kicking leading to Ahmed Johnson winning the IC title was another good one.

[Si82 0]

What about Warrior over Hogan? Can we all agree that right there was a rare job Hogan did but Warrior failed so bad, that it is hardly mentioned anymore.

Hogan himself admits that the stole the spotlight after his loss to Warrior at Wrestlemania VI.

 

From Hollywood Hulk Hogan:

At the end of the night, the referee was supposed to get the belt from the timekeeper and give it to Ultimate Warrior. But this was my chance to steal back everything he had taken from me. So I zipped over to the timekeeper and ripped the belt out of his hand. Then I walked up on the ring apron with the belt, looked up to God, shook my head yes, walked into the ring, and handed Ultimate Warrior the belt.

 

As I left the arena, 68,000 people in SkyDome watched me go. Ultimate Warrior held the belt above his head in victory and no one cared.

I doubt that could be seen as truly putting someone over.

[luke-o 0]

I still can never grasp why Paul E. was so hellbent on getting Credible over.

 

I've wondered that too, and the only answer I can come up with was that he had an awesome name.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

That, and I think Heyman knew that Credible wouldn't leave. He felt fucked over by McMahon with the whole "Aldo Montoya" bullshit, not to mention getting his salary cut in half when they sent him back down to developmental before releasing him, and it was doubtful he'd go to WCW because...I don't know why, but I don't think he wanted to. That, and Credible was actually a pretty hardy worker in the ring, but his schtick wasn't meant to get over in the main event. He was upper-mid at best, really. He had really good matches against Jerry Lynn (which, according to interviews with both men, weren't just Lynn carrying Credible), and then some decent ones with Tommy Dreamer, but...yeah. He's essentially a tag wrestler whose only tag team was broken up too soon. At least that's my perception of him. I will say that I marked HARD when he debuted on Raw, even if he fucked up the interference by having trouble getting into the ring.

[cd213 0]

That, and I think Heyman knew that Credible wouldn't leave. He felt fucked over by McMahon with the whole "Aldo Montoya" bullshit, not to mention getting his salary cut in half when they sent him back down to developmental before releasing him, and it was doubtful he'd go to WCW because...I don't know why, but I don't think he wanted to. That, and Credible was actually a pretty hardy worker in the ring, but his schtick wasn't meant to get over in the main event. He was upper-mid at best, really. He had really good matches against Jerry Lynn (which, according to interviews with both men, weren't just Lynn carrying Credible), and then some decent ones with Tommy Dreamer, but...yeah. He's essentially a tag wrestler whose only tag team was broken up too soon. At least that's my perception of him. I will say that I marked HARD when he debuted on Raw, even if he fucked up the interference by having trouble getting into the ring.

 

Wasn't it him that was talking and Austin replied with the famous "What" that ended up having a life of it's own, still going today?

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

What about Warrior over Hogan? Can we all agree that right there was a rare job Hogan did but Warrior failed so bad, that it is hardly mentioned anymore.

Hogan himself admits that the stole the spotlight after his loss to Warrior at Wrestlemania VI.

 

From Hollywood Hulk Hogan:

At the end of the night, the referee was supposed to get the belt from the timekeeper and give it to Ultimate Warrior. But this was my chance to steal back everything he had taken from me. So I zipped over to the timekeeper and ripped the belt out of his hand. Then I walked up on the ring apron with the belt, looked up to God, shook my head yes, walked into the ring, and handed Ultimate Warrior the belt.

 

As I left the arena, 68,000 people in SkyDome watched me go. Ultimate Warrior held the belt above his head in victory and no one cared.

I doubt that could be seen as truly putting someone over.

 

 

I understand that it's considered by many as Hogan stealing the spotlight, but that was not the reaction I had when I watched it originally. It seemed like a symbolic gesture by Hogan to show that he had to accept the fact that he was no longer the man and that Warrior had passed him by. We all know how things ended up, but on that night, the Warrior was the biggest thing in wrestling.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I have to agree with cheech. In fact, I think it was only a few years ago (2002 or so, I guess coinciding with Mania 18) when I started hearing Meltzer and the like mention Hogan stealing the spotlight from Warrior as a big political move. A normal observer would just see that as what it was - Hogan handing the belt to the better man and embracing him in a display of friendly sportsmanship. I didn't think Kurt Angle was stealing Brock's thunder by doing essentially the same thing at Mania XIX (though on the other hand, I guess Kurt could have been doing just that since it was at one point supposed to be his last match and chance to main event Mania).

 

I think there is often a problem when it comes to what Joe Observer / Joe Smart analyzes and what John Mark takes in. Yeah, Joe Observer is usually right when he determines that Paul O'Tick is doing something to keep everyone else down through sublte means, but how often does John Mark look at something like that and not just see what is presented on screen and accept it for that and nothing more? When Hill Williams was watching Raw at a bar in Mudlick, Kentucky and saw Goldust put a wig on Goldberg's head, did he laugh at the absurdity or post an angry internet message about how the WWE was making a mockery of the character of Goldberg by not booking him correctly? Again, the people who DID come to that conclusion were absolutely right, but... you know, I'm not really sure what the final point I'm trying to come to is anymore, but it's in there somewhere.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Wow, how does a post start with a strong point and end up like that?

[mysterious_w 0]

Surprised no one mentioned Foley basically making Triple H in early 2000. That Royal Rumble was shown on network TV here in the UK (First of maybe 3 PPV's shown like that), and I'd been watching the syndication shows relgiously in the weeks up to it.

 

Everything from Mankind turning into Cactus Jack, the video packages with IWA footage, the street fight stipulation, made it look like Foley was getting the belt. But then Triple H won, and it didn't look ridiculous.

 

Then we get a rematch in a freaking Hell in a Cell, looks even more like Foley's winning with the retirement promise, and Triple H wins it again. Those two matches put Triple H right on the top tier in my mind.

[Guest]

Ok.

 

First Hogan kicks out of Warrior's finish and does the Hulk-up. Warrior does not kick out of the legdrop in return. And then at the finish, Hogan kicks out as soon as Hebner counts three.

 

Have you seen how long it takes Hogan to get in the ring with the belt? And how Hogan drapes it over his shoulder as if it is his? The camera was focused on Hogan just as long as it was on Warrior at the end.

 

I'm not going to say I'm mad about it. I'm glad he didn't put the guy over. Hell, he didn't put over a single guy in his run in the late 80's and early 90's. And if by some chance he did, it sure as hell wasn't going to be a guy that could be made into a believable threat. Hell, that's why they had him do tags with Tugboat in 1990. There's no way Hulk's going to give Tugboat the superstar rub, so there's no harm in him teaming with Hulk. He tagged with Savage and let Savage get the belt, but what happens after WM V when Hulk takes it back. Buried Savage to the point where they programmed him with Dusty Freakin' Rhodes.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I don't think anyone is saying Hogan DIDN'T try and steal Warrior's thunder, but I can't say that watching that as a kid I thought "wow, Hogan sure is being a jerk tonight, ruining Warrior's big title win".

 

cheech: I blame a combination of trying to come up with a witty way of saying Hillbilly while typing a post at work and being constantly interuppted.