WWE General Discussion - January 2008

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

In context of the full blurb, their issue seemed to be making guys go in at intervals until everyone is in, just to end the match quickly after that because now people are allowed to give up, and that it takes up two rings to do. Basically, the writer is calling it a stupid gimmick match despite (probably in spite) of the fact it's regarded as one of the best things Dusty or WCW ever did.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

Q: What advice did you get from your father (wrestler Cowboy Bob Orton) and grandfather (wrestler Bob Orton Sr) about what to do, and what not to do?

A: My dad always said: 'Save your money.' My grandpa said: 'Watch out for the other guys.' Everyone has a gun pointed at you. It's whether you give them a bullet to use. I keep my mouth shut and I don't get too personal with everybody because it's competitive. The best friend I travel down the road with would love to see me break my leg because they'd have a chance to get my spot. It's like any other sport. When someone gets hurt, injured, suspended, in trouble - it opens up opportunities for other people. It's a shame, but it's a very cut-throat business.

 

So, much for 'our locker room is a family'. Him claiming to have only spent 7 nights with his wife in 2 months seems like something out of the eighties. I did think the schedule was a bit better nowadays.

 

He seems pessimistic about the wrestling business in general in that interview. But it is probably better to treat it as a business and not get too close to anyone.

[Hawk 34 0]

Let me give some thoughts on that bizarre list.

10. Joey Abs: Why him and not Rodney or Pete Gas?

 

Gas and Rodney are Shane's friends. Abs was just a worker they hired to carry that team.

[Diamonddust 0]

In context of the full blurb, their issue seemed to be making guys go in at intervals until everyone is in, just to end the match quickly after that because now people are allowed to give up, and that it takes up two rings to do. Basically, the writer is calling it a stupid gimmick match despite (probably in spite) of the fact it's regarded as one of the best things Dusty or WCW ever did.

 

Nail on the head has been hit.

 

You are correct in saying Wargames was one of the best and most popular gimmicks Rhodes/WCW ever developed, which is why it will get buried like this. Wargames would be a great addition to a PPV now, but that isn't going to happen... especially when the Elimination Chamber is rapidly becoming the a staple gimmick match like Hell in the Cell, the Royal Rumble, and Money in the Bank.

[Toxxic 0]

That seems (seems) like a rather honest interview from Orton. Although I'm willing to bet some of that was heel persona shining through in a non-kayfabe situation.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

7) Nalley Night pinned Victoria with a roll-up

 

Who? Sounds like a fake (or maybe misheard) name for Nattie Neidhart.

[cabbageboy 0]

Here's another 15 list from WWE magazine, followed by my thoughts:

 

15 Reasons Nitro Failed: Nothing compares to these shameful people and moments.

 

15. Tony Schiavone (Agree to some extent. He became a self parody by 1998.)

14. nWo 2000 (Yeah, this was pretty bad. Though it's really mostly just forgettable.)

13. Anti-American Jim Duggan (Also bad but not memorable enough to place on the list.)

12. Chavo Guerrero & Pepe (How dare them! I love Pepe.)

11. Vince Russo in the Pope Mobile (Stupid of course, but WCW was wrecked by this point.)

10. Matches in the Mall of America (Eh? The initial Nitro from the Mall put Nitro on the map.)

09. Finger Poke of Doom (Kevin Nash drops to the mat to lose his title after Hulk Hogan pokes him on 1/4/99 Nitro) (How is this not higher than #9? It has to be top 3 or so.)

08. The Magnificent Seven (2001 faction consisting of Ric Flair, Scott Steiner, Rick Steiner, Jeff Jarrett, Lex Luger, Buff Bagwell and Road Warrior Animal) (Pointless stable but WCW was on its death bed by the time this angle was going.)

07. "Crazy" Ric Flair (Yeah, this pretty much wrecked Flair's drawing power in 1999.)

06. New Blood vs. The Millionaires (This could have worked but it wasn't booked right. I guess I can see it on here.)

05. Steve "Mongo" McMichael (Do they mean announcing or wrestling? If announcing, then yes. He wasn't notable enough as a wrestler to put here.)

04. Disco Inferno (Is Disco really that bad? Geez.)

03. One Warrior Nation (short-lived 1998 faction consisting of Ultimate Warrior and The Disciple a.k.a. Brutus Beefcake) (Yeah this stuff sucked hard. I'd have put the entire Warrior run in WCW on this list though.)

02. Misfits in Action (2000 faction consisting of Hugh Morrus, Lash LeRoux, The Wall, Chavo Guerrero, Booker T, Tylene "Major Gunns" Buck and Vam Hammer) (Not exactly an inspiring stable but were they really the worst thing in the world?)

01. David Arquette (Oh lord. Though to be honest his epic title win was on a Thunder and not Nitro.)

 

 

[LaParkaMarka 0]

I liked Disco...I thought he was an entertaining midcard act. WCW always had some entertaining midcard and opening acts, it was the main events that never ever delivered.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Disco Inferno was hilarous... Entertaining midcard talent who made the best of the air time he had. Him trying to fit in with the nWo Wolfpac and the Filthy Animals was classic. I don't see how he can be one of the reasons Nitro failed because he was nothing more then a midcard talent, and when he was around WCW was at it's peak.

[Rob Anybody 0]

That seems (seems) like a rather honest interview from Orton. Although I'm willing to bet some of that was heel persona shining through in a non-kayfabe situation.

 

The article itself is preceded by this:

 

SUPERSTAR wrestler Randy Orton is in character. His minder warns Orton's sullen and petulant behaviour is part of the act.

 

It is these bad boy performances and his amazing athleticism that have made Orton a history-making champion and textbook WWE villain.

 

But, in a candid interview, Orton, 27, dropped the grumpy facade to talk about his life in, and out, of the wrestling ring.

 

(Emphasis article's.)

 

which does suggest it's at least some sort of a worked shoot, although I haven't seen any other Orton interviews (so it could just be his style to be unexpectedly blunt). Still interesting to read, though.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

Why does a grown man need a minder?

 

I remember hearing Kurt had a couple in 2006. But only cause he was too drugged up to get to the arenas by himself or something like that,

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The biggest problem wasn't always the angles, it was the production. Amateurish compared to WWE, who usually has their shit down by the time the live show hits the air.

[Enigma 0]

I assumed the "minder" was meant to be the one who WWE sends to monitor the interviews to make sure nothing they don't want talked about is talked about.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

I might have to warm up on this Orton kid. (Supposedly) standing up to HHH/HBK, putting over London & Kendrick in that interview. Hmm.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

 

-- WWE has signed Gary Marasciulo, who wrestled as Plazma for Mikey Whipwreck's New York Wrestling Connection promotion, to a developmental contract. This is the same place the former Major Brothers came from.

 

 

 

I heard about this last week. Wow, I can't believe he of all people got signed.

[Jaxxson Mayhem 0]

Hogan's on Conan right now.

[Bruiser_Brody_ 0]

Hogan is really kinda awkward and doing lots of fake laughs.

[spman 0]

So RAW tonight was a pretty good show live. I've been to plenty of shows over the years, and I much prefer an emphasis on wrestling, as I've been to RAW and Smackdown tapings that are 90% storyline and promo bullshit and almost zero wrestling and they're not pretty.

 

Let me actually preface this with a brief rant on how much I hate the fucking Indian Casino. I've been to Vegas, and I've been to Atlantic City, and I can honestly say that you have a much better chance of winning the jackpot at either one of those places then you do of even breaking even at Foxwoods or Mohegan Sun. Since they have no real competition in the area, they jack the odds way down so it's almost impossible to win. The slots don't pay out shit, and minimum for Blackjack is 25 dollars, but don't even waste your time since it's an eight deck shoe, you don't stand a chance. These crooked Indians can bite me, I'll take the casinos in Atlantic City any day, even if the place has turned into a slum.

 

The show itself was announced as a sell out, but there was some small pockets of empty seats that I saw. They did go out of their way to sell every seat possible however, and I even saw people sitting in some horrible obstructed view seats behind the tron. The dark match was Atlas DeBone defeating Nick Nemeth. Neither guy was particularly impressive, just a lot of basic rest holds for the most part. Nemeth completely changed his look form his Spirit Squad days.

 

Heat was your usual Jobber crap. Duggan and Crazy went to a dusty finish against 2 jobbers for some reason. DH Smith pinned a jobber, and Santito defeated Kendrick.

 

RAW itself was good, Murdoch and Haas made for an odd pairing, but it was a good match. What was with Haas and the Lucha mask? The womens segment was just a complete waste of time, as was Jericho being hung by JBL. The Main event however was a great match, that spot off the top of the cage was sick.

 

After the show I waited around for a bit in the Casino Hotel to see if anyone happened to wander out. I got my ticket stub signed by Jim Ross who ended up being mobbed. I shook hands with Todd Grisham and told him he does good work on 24/7, and I also shook hands with Rajin Singh, and asked him to write some better storylines. He kind of gave me a dirty look for that one. I assume most of the workers know better by now then to stay at the Casino Hotel as it's really pricey, and they know that it's just a swarm of marks for a couple hours after the show.

 

Overall though it was a lot of fun, so here's hoping the Rumble is just as good.

[Mike wanna be 0]

Was the crowd as dead for the women's match as they sounded to be on TV? It really, really seemed like nobody remotely gave a shit about the 'match'.

[Black Lushus 0]

come on, Chavo screaming in agony and sorrow as Pepe was tossed in to the wood chipper was classic!

[Lil' Bitch 0]

So what did the 222 in Save Us mean?

[AntiLeaf33 0]

come on, Chavo screaming in agony and sorrow as Pepe was tossed in to the wood chipper was classic!

 

Hell, Pepe made me like Chavo more.

[Guest Diablo_Dor]

Here's another 15 list from WWE magazine, followed by my thoughts:

 

15 Reasons Nitro Failed: Nothing compares to these shameful people and moments.

 

15. Tony Schiavone (Agree to some extent. He became a self parody by 1998.)

14. nWo 2000 (Yeah, this was pretty bad. Though it's really mostly just forgettable.)

13. Anti-American Jim Duggan (Also bad but not memorable enough to place on the list.)

12. Chavo Guerrero & Pepe (How dare them! I love Pepe.)

11. Vince Russo in the Pope Mobile (Stupid of course, but WCW was wrecked by this point.)

10. Matches in the Mall of America (Eh? The initial Nitro from the Mall put Nitro on the map.)

09. Finger Poke of Doom (Kevin Nash drops to the mat to lose his title after Hulk Hogan pokes him on 1/4/99 Nitro) (How is this not higher than #9? It has to be top 3 or so.)

08. The Magnificent Seven (2001 faction consisting of Ric Flair, Scott Steiner, Rick Steiner, Jeff Jarrett, Lex Luger, Buff Bagwell and Road Warrior Animal) (Pointless stable but WCW was on its death bed by the time this angle was going.)

07. "Crazy" Ric Flair (Yeah, this pretty much wrecked Flair's drawing power in 1999.)

06. New Blood vs. The Millionaires (This could have worked but it wasn't booked right. I guess I can see it on here.)

05. Steve "Mongo" McMichael (Do they mean announcing or wrestling? If announcing, then yes. He wasn't notable enough as a wrestler to put here.)

04. Disco Inferno (Is Disco really that bad? Geez.)

03. One Warrior Nation (short-lived 1998 faction consisting of Ultimate Warrior and The Disciple a.k.a. Brutus Beefcake) (Yeah this stuff sucked hard. I'd have put the entire Warrior run in WCW on this list though.)

02. Misfits in Action (2000 faction consisting of Hugh Morrus, Lash LeRoux, The Wall, Chavo Guerrero, Booker T, Tylene "Major Gunns" Buck and Vam Hammer) (Not exactly an inspiring stable but were they really the worst thing in the world?)

01. David Arquette (Oh lord. Though to be honest his epic title win was on a Thunder and not Nitro.)

 

I would love to have an actual honest list that looked at this issue but I've a feeling that the Real number 1 would just be

01. Turner Bigwigs decided they would not have Nitro on their network after its sale to a private buyer. Lets be real here could WCW not have taken a huge bite out of WWE during the abysmal Katie Vick storyline and the era of HHH total burial?

 

To me you would have to then claim something like

02. WCW just stopped being the cool brand of wrestling but that would be something that now could be levelled at WWE

 

I would also believe it would also require an answer like

03. NWO ran too long with no storyline that could replace it, leaving the mindset: when in jeapordy revert to the NWO but that sets the WWE up to the same claim in respect to Hogan Foley or Austin for kneejerk rating spikes.

 

Of Course the

04. Goldberg winning the title in a Nitro with 4 Days Build to me was a hell of a lot more detrimental to the company (As an aside I'd have probably booked a Huge NWO beatdown of Goldberg with Scott Hall cheating to beat him and Hogan giving the Belt shot to end the match at that Nitro leading to a chase to Starcade but once again hindsight is twenty twenty)

 

Another list point

05. Would have to be that they had a massive survey in to what the fans wanted and then, totally ignored the findings and hired Vince Russo to make Nitro into Raw-Lite but short term I believe that did actual increase their ratings.

 

I know failure to elevate is a huge point but that is the case in EVERY company

 

What do the rest of you believe?

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Also add giving Kevin Nash creative control and had him only benefiting him. Him going over Goldberg at Starcade 98 and ending his streak was the most selfish thing he could've done. Nash at that point was already an established main eventer, and didn't need to go over Goldberg. The best booking would've had someone who could've benefited from ending Goldberg's streak.

[Black Lushus 0]

Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit come to mind there...but we're talking WCW so naaaaaah.

[cabbageboy 0]

I've always defended Nash going over Goldberg as booking that could have helped both men, but they didn't do any semblance of a decent followup to it. If Goldberg simply beats Nash in a rematch on that Jan. 4 Nitro then he's got the belt and the win streak is off his back.

 

I think when all was said and done, WCW built around a major angle (with old stars) while the WWF built around younger stars. While Austin/McMahon was of course a major storyline that drew money, the WWF always pushed stars instead of just the angle. Thus when Austin/McMahon kinda ran its course they had the groundwork set for guys like The Rock, HHH, and so on to step up.

 

History has shown that promotions who build around one main angle tend to flame out once that angle gets stale and runs its course. WCCW started its downturn once the Freebirds/Von Erichs rivalry had run its course and the Freebirds left (though there were of course other factors). The NWA/JCP hit a serious downturn once people got fed up with the 4 Horsemen constantly winning and the faces never got a lasting win.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I shook hands with Todd Grisham and told him he does good work on 24/7, and I also shook hands with Rajin Singh, and asked him to write some better storylines. He kind of gave me a dirty look for that one.

 

Were you just being funny with the Grisham thing? He doesn't do a SINGLE THING on 24/7. They didn't even let him pick a Shortie in December.

[luke-o 0]

Also add giving Kevin Nash creative control and had him only benefiting him. Him going over Goldberg at Starcade 98 and ending his streak was the most selfish thing he could've done. Nash at that point was already an established main eventer, and didn't need to go over Goldberg. The best booking would've had someone who could've benefited from ending Goldberg's streak.

 

To paraphrase Nash from his shoot interview:

 

"I wasn't even booking at the time I ended his streak, I took the book a week later when I droped the belt... And everyone stoped caring about Goldberg at that point... I was in the arenas while everyone was chanting "Goldberg sucks!"

[Jingus 0]

As usual, Nash is a complete fucking liar. He'd started booking in November iirc, and Starrcade was in December. And "Goldberg sucks!"?! Bullshit.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

They chanted it pretty loud in Toronto... 4 months later, but still, it did happen!