OAO Raw Thread - February 18, 2008

[Hawk 34 0]

What the WWE needs is to build up another heel, that the fans are dying to see turn face. Someone like a Stone Cold, Rock or John Cena 03-04

 

I can remember back in 98 when the fans were going nuts for The Rock to turn face. The crowd went nuts when he beat Mark Henry, and then Rock Bottomed Vince...even if the face turn only lasted a few weeks to Survivor Series, they still built that character.

 

There isn't any heel on the roster that I can think of that the fans are dying to see turn. The closest thing they had was probably Kennedy or Carlito about 2 years ago...obvously no where near the magnitude of the fans desire to see Rock, Austin and Cena turn, but there was still some potential.

 

They don't need any of this, they're having their most succesful run since 2001, what they're doing is working fine.

 

Then why are a lot of your posts complaints about Cena?

 

He's talking in business sense. WWE has no reason to turn Cena. For all the "negative" reactions he gets, he makes a shit ton of money in this position. Obviously, Cena isn't turning people away.

 

[Wally Balls 0]

What the WWE needs is to build up another heel, that the fans are dying to see turn face. Someone like a Stone Cold, Rock or John Cena 03-04

 

I can remember back in 98 when the fans were going nuts for The Rock to turn face. The crowd went nuts when he beat Mark Henry, and then Rock Bottomed Vince...even if the face turn only lasted a few weeks to Survivor Series, they still built that character.

 

There isn't any heel on the roster that I can think of that the fans are dying to see turn. The closest thing they had was probably Kennedy or Carlito about 2 years ago...obvously no where near the magnitude of the fans desire to see Rock, Austin and Cena turn, but there was still some potential.

 

They don't need any of this, they're having their most succesful run since 2001, what they're doing is working fine.

 

Then why are a lot of your posts complaints about Cena?

 

He's talking in business sense. WWE has no reason to turn Cena. For all the "negative" reactions he gets, he makes a shit ton of money in this position. Obviously, Cena isn't turning people away.

 

I'm not arguing that. If you read my post from about 20 minutes ago you'd see.

 

 

 

[Fartsauce 0]

Is it just me or does Randy Orton look like he's suffering from the flu or something? Last night he didn't look all there and tonight he sounded drunk and seemed to wobble out to the ring during the opening segment. He also looks a hell of a lot smaller than a couple weeks ago.

[zappafrank 0]

I'm watching my tape of RAW and I swear, this Anaheim crowd absolutely sucks. It's actually making a basically non-offensive show unwatchable. They didn't even pop for Flair's HoF announcement, and EVERY crowd pops hard for Flair.

 

Plus, Ross really is off his game. He's been tripping over his words all night, and I caught on 2 occasions statements that were flat out wrong or misinformed (he said he can't recall a brother sister/duo on RAW; I guess he really doesn't remember the Shamrock's...and he said that the MitB ladder match traditonally has 6 people; never mind that last year's had 8).

 

And I wonder if Vince is going to rebook the Show/Mayweather angle to make Show the face and Mayweather the heel, based on Anaheim's reaction. Austin/Tyson it is not (although someone at the Hooters where I had to catch the PPV said, "That's Mike Tyson!!!"...he also said "Haha, Moolah!" when the WM ad with Mae Young aired).

[Enigma 0]

They will never turn Cena heel because of the disaster of Stone Cold Steve Austin's heel turn in 2001.

[UZI Suicide 0]

This headline on WWE.com right now..

 

 

He's burning in hell AND getting his name misspelled? Good work, Michael Cole.

[Perfection 0]

I'm watching my tape of RAW and I swear, this Anaheim crowd absolutely sucks. It's actually making a basically non-offensive show unwatchable. They didn't even pop for Flair's HoF announcement, and EVERY crowd pops hard for Flair.

 

Plus, Ross really is off his game. He's been tripping over his words all night, and I caught on 2 occasions statements that were flat out wrong or misinformed (he said he can't recall a brother sister/duo on RAW; I guess he really doesn't remember the Shamrock's...and he said that the MitB ladder match traditonally has 6 people; never mind that last year's had 8).

\

 

Yeah it annoyed me quite a bit at the silence they gave the flair announcement. And did you notice that after Lawler pointed that out, there was this almost uncomfortable silence from ross? He didn't even acknowledge what he said. It was odd. Not one of his better nights.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

These days, Lawler is about as good a colorman as Mongo.

Jerry Lawler is still 10 times better than Mongo.

 

I agree tenfold. Mongo was really, really horrible. His commentary makes me long for Rob Bartlett.

 

This headline on WWE.com right now..

 

 

He's burning in hell AND getting his name misspelled? Good work, Michael Cole.

 

On the bright side... Wednesday is ALL DIVAS DAY!

[Perfection 0]

Maybe it's just me, but i'm not even hearing the dual chants for Cena anymore. All I hear is Cena getting booed with maybe 10% cheering him. It's not even split anymore and it's not even close either.

 

I would say it's about 60 to 40 or 70 to 30 against right now seriously. It doesn't seem to matter who they face him up against, he gets booed more and more. It's to the point that it looks ridiculous that you have the majority of the people at the show booing him and they still act like he's the most loved guy in the world. He is going to get massively booed between now and wrestlemania in every hhh segment.

[Hawk 34 0]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not even hearing the dual chants for Cena anymore. All I hear is Cena getting booed with maybe 10% cheering him. It's not even split anymore and it's not even close either.

 

I would say it's about 60 to 40 or 70 to 30 against right now seriously. It doesn't seem to matter who they face him up against, he gets booed more and more. It's to the point that it looks ridiculous that you have the majority of the people at the show booing him and they still act like he's the most loved guy in the world. He is going to get massively booed between now and wrestlemania in every hhh segment.

 

How is that? Cena openly talks about during his promos about the dissension he draws from the crowd and that's a part of his entire persona. WWE, as in the commentators will often make note of the split crowds and put over how polarizing a character John Cena is.

[Perfection 0]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not even hearing the dual chants for Cena anymore. All I hear is Cena getting booed with maybe 10% cheering him. It's not even split anymore and it's not even close either.

 

I would say it's about 60 to 40 or 70 to 30 against right now seriously. It doesn't seem to matter who they face him up against, he gets booed more and more. It's to the point that it looks ridiculous that you have the majority of the people at the show booing him and they still act like he's the most loved guy in the world. He is going to get massively booed between now and wrestlemania in every hhh segment.

 

How is that? Cena openly talks about during his promos about the dissension he draws from the crowd and that's a part of his entire persona. WWE, as in the commentators will often make note of the split crowds and put over how polarizing a character John Cena is.

 

Oh cmon, they mentioned it only in passing while the rest of the time they act like he's superman coming to save the woman in distress. It's just bad when its obvious to everyone that he is getting more boos than some of the heels on the roster.

[Naked Snake 0]

Finlay was a god in that segment. He really sold it well.

 

Wasn't 2007 the best year in revenue for the WWE ever? Part of that is for Cena being a face, and I wouldn't turn him at all.

[Enigma 0]

As a way to say screw you to the very unresponsive crowd in Anaheim, WWE invoked the classic "card subject to change" and did not deliever on the locally advertised Triple H/Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton/Mr. Kennedy post-Raw tag match that was advertised.

[BifEverchad 0]

Poor, poor Hornwoggle.

[Scroby 0]

6% of WWE fans are gay.

So some of TSM posters were the 6%?

[Chazz 0]

As a way to say screw you to the very unresponsive crowd in Anaheim, WWE invoked the classic "card subject to change" and did not deliever on the locally advertised Triple H/Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton/Mr. Kennedy post-Raw tag match that was advertised.

 

Too bad they didn't have Paul Heyman around to announce to the crowd that if they kept their apathy up, then it would be a long time before they came back to Anaheim for another T.V. Taping, such as he did at Long Island, N.Y. during a Raw in 2001.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

If Hornwaggle is burning in hell..I guess that means a HIAC match at WM?

[RonL21 0]

Cena can be Heel and still be cool

 

See Rock circa 2003...

 

He knew exactly what to say to get the crowd to hate him

 

but was still pretty much a face

[RonL21 0]

To be clear..

 

That whole that WWE had it's most profitable year w/ Cena on Top is kind of misleading...

 

This isnt just a Wrestling company anymore...

 

It's not drawing profits just from TShirts and House Shows and PPVs...

 

The WWE is involved in many ventures now from which it derives it's income....

 

If the WWE was as wide spread as it now back in 2000-2001, i would imagine those

 

years would be more profitable if everything was on an even scale....

[Dobbs 3K 0]

For me, RAW was a thumbs up last night simply for JBL beating the hell out of Horsnwaggle. I hope I never have to see him on my TV again (I know that won't happen, though).

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Cena can be Heel and still be cool

 

See Rock circa 2003...

 

He knew exactly what to say to get the crowd to hate him

 

but was still pretty much a face

 

Exactly. I wish Cena would act heelish, but is still liked as it worked for Stone Cold initially. The reason Cena sucks is the same reason for Michaels in 96 - being stripped of any real personality once he turned face.

 

After tonight I am starting to have that sinking feeling that Orton might retain at WM. He just looks like such a jobber after losing to Cena the way he did tonight that the storyline going into WM is that he HAS to finally get that win over Cena.

 

I've already lost a good amount of interest for WM with the triple threat match being announced as the main event. Cena or HHH is totally predictable and nothing good or interesting can of it when it happens (aside from a potentially fresh and feud of HHH Vs. JBL) Randy Orton retaining though would be the best thing to happen since nobody is expecting it.

[The Truthiness 0]

To be clear..

 

That whole that WWE had it's most profitable year w/ Cena on Top is kind of misleading...

 

This isnt just a Wrestling company anymore...

 

It's not drawing profits just from TShirts and House Shows and PPVs...

 

The WWE is involved in many ventures now from which it derives it's income....

 

If the WWE was as wide spread as it now back in 2000-2001, i would imagine those

 

years would be more profitable if everything was on an even scale....

 

Most of their ventures outside of wrestling also involved Cena.

[RonL21 0]

To be clear..

 

That whole that WWE had it's most profitable year w/ Cena on Top is kind of misleading...

 

This isnt just a Wrestling company anymore...

 

It's not drawing profits just from TShirts and House Shows and PPVs...

 

The WWE is involved in many ventures now from which it derives it's income....

 

If the WWE was as wide spread as it now back in 2000-2001, i would imagine those

 

years would be more profitable if everything was on an even scale....

 

Most of their ventures outside of wrestling also involved Cena.

 

you missed my point completely

 

And if they used Rock and Stone Cold the same way they

 

would'vd made more..

 

We all know wrestling isnt as popular as it was back then, so naturally there has

 

to be an explanation as to why it's so profitable now

[The Truthiness 0]

To be clear..

 

That whole that WWE had it's most profitable year w/ Cena on Top is kind of misleading...

 

This isnt just a Wrestling company anymore...

 

It's not drawing profits just from TShirts and House Shows and PPVs...

 

The WWE is involved in many ventures now from which it derives it's income....

 

If the WWE was as wide spread as it now back in 2000-2001, i would imagine those

 

years would be more profitable if everything was on an even scale....

 

Most of their ventures outside of wrestling also involved Cena.

 

 

you missed my point completely

 

And if they used Rock and Stone Cold the same way they

 

would'vd made more..

 

We all know wrestling isnt as popular as it was back then, so naturally there has

 

to be an explanation as to why it's so profitable now

 

Both of Cena's DVD's sold plenty, I think its pretty obvious he had a lot to do with WWE's success all around the board. Austin and The Rock are bigger draws, and probably will always be bigger draws if you compare what they did in the late 90's-early 2000's years to Cena's era. The thing is there was 2 big company most of those years, Cena didn't have the luxury of WCW like Austin/The Rock did. He is the face of the company at a time when it is the only wrestling company that is relevant. Being able to bring in those numbers while Cena's on top is impressive and there is really no denying that, he had a large hand in the success WWE had last year, that isn't hard too see.

[cabbageboy 0]

I don't get the comparisons between Cena now and Austin in 2001. Austin was more popular than ever after his late 2000 comeback. He certainly wasn't stale or getting booed by anyone in the crowd.

 

At the very least Cena needs to drift into a tweener type character that just doesn't give a shit anymore. But just watch that match with Orton last night. When the alleged top face in the company is getting booed during his comeback then something is seriously wrong. Something isn't working.

 

WWE has no real idea of how to book a face these days. Years of anti heroes like Austin and The Rock have made it impossible to simply go back to rooting for the virtuous babyface. In addition WWE doesn't seem to know what fans WANT to cheer anymore. Witness Cena's reactions since late 2005, or the various rejections of Rey Mysterio.

[The Truthiness 0]

I don't get the comparisons between Cena now and Austin in 2001. Austin was more popular than ever after his late 2000 comeback. He certainly wasn't stale or getting booed by anyone in the crowd.

 

At the very least Cena needs to drift into a tweener type character that just doesn't give a shit anymore. But just watch that match with Orton last night. When the alleged top face in the company is getting booed during his comeback then something is seriously wrong. Something isn't working.

 

WWE has no real idea of how to book a face these days. Years of anti heroes like Austin and The Rock have made it impossible to simply go back to rooting for the virtuous babyface. In addition WWE doesn't seem to know what fans WANT to cheer anymore. Witness Cena's reactions since late 2005, or the various rejections of Rey Mysterio.

Cena really doesn't have too change a thing, they're not trying to make him a "attitude" type character. Thats why he's a real babyface, and not a anti-Hero like Austin. They're trying to move away from that era, if you look at the faces in WWE they're all like Cena, except for DX/Taker (guys who wee succesful in the attitude era). None of the faces are edgy, they're all basically choir boys, this is basically a new era in WWE. The guys with all the attitude are basically heels, the faces are all good guys fighting for what is right. Opposed to Austin, who was a dick that was going against a bigger dick in Mcmahon.

[LooseCannon25 0]

I don't get the comparisons between Cena now and Austin in 2001. Austin was more popular than ever after his late 2000 comeback. He certainly wasn't stale or getting booed by anyone in the crowd.

 

At the very least Cena needs to drift into a tweener type character that just doesn't give a shit anymore. But just watch that match with Orton last night. When the alleged top face in the company is getting booed during his comeback then something is seriously wrong. Something isn't working.

 

WWE has no real idea of how to book a face these days. Years of anti heroes like Austin and The Rock have made it impossible to simply go back to rooting for the virtuous babyface. In addition WWE doesn't seem to know what fans WANT to cheer anymore. Witness Cena's reactions since late 2005, or the various rejections of Rey Mysterio.

Cena really doesn't have too change a thing, they're trying to make him a "attitude" type character. Thats why he's a real babyface, and not a anti-Hero like Austin. They're trying to move away from that era, if you look at the faces in WWE they're all like Cena, except for DX/Taker (guys who wee succesful in the attitude era). None of the faces are edgy, they're all basically choir boys, this is basically a new era in WWE. The guys with all the attitude are basically heels, the faces are all good guys fighting for what is right. Opposed to Austin, who was a dick that was going against a bigger dick in Mcmahon.

 

 

You're not getting it. OBviously it's a different era, but when your top face is getting booed out of the building every time he shows up, and every time he has an advantage in a match, or every single time he opens his mouth then there's a problem. Yes, they do very good business with him on top, but that doesn't mean yo just keep letting your top guy get shit on every time as you sit there with a smile. That WILL wear off and people will get turned away. EVen if they don't turn him heel, then at least give the guy some edginess or attitude.

 

Cena made it to the top because of his attitude, edginess, and character. His popularity skyrocketed because of the character he WAS, not the character he IS now.

[The Truthiness 0]

I don't get the comparisons between Cena now and Austin in 2001. Austin was more popular than ever after his late 2000 comeback. He certainly wasn't stale or getting booed by anyone in the crowd.

 

At the very least Cena needs to drift into a tweener type character that just doesn't give a shit anymore. But just watch that match with Orton last night. When the alleged top face in the company is getting booed during his comeback then something is seriously wrong. Something isn't working.

 

WWE has no real idea of how to book a face these days. Years of anti heroes like Austin and The Rock have made it impossible to simply go back to rooting for the virtuous babyface. In addition WWE doesn't seem to know what fans WANT to cheer anymore. Witness Cena's reactions since late 2005, or the various rejections of Rey Mysterio.

Cena really doesn't have too change a thing, they're trying to make him a "attitude" type character. Thats why he's a real babyface, and not a anti-Hero like Austin. They're trying to move away from that era, if you look at the faces in WWE they're all like Cena, except for DX/Taker (guys who wee succesful in the attitude era). None of the faces are edgy, they're all basically choir boys, this is basically a new era in WWE. The guys with all the attitude are basically heels, the faces are all good guys fighting for what is right. Opposed to Austin, who was a dick that was going against a bigger dick in Mcmahon.

 

 

You're not getting it. OBviously it's a different era, but when your top face is getting booed out of the building every time he shows up, and every time he has an advantage in a match, or every single time he opens his mouth then there's a problem. Yes, they do very good business with him on top, but that doesn't mean yo just keep letting your top guy get shit on every time as you sit there with a smile. That WILL wear off and people will get turned away. EVen if they don't turn him heel, then at least give the guy some edginess or attitude.

 

Cena made it to the top because of his attitude, edginess, and character. His popularity skyrocketed because of the character he WAS, not the character he IS now.

It will not turn people away, Cena has a big audience in kids and women. WWE is basically marketing to kids and trying to create a new 18-34 demographic, they're not focusing on the older audience who boo Cena, but too appease them they have guys like Hunter, HBK, and Taker, guys who have a edge and attitude, but none of the 3 are going to be the face of the company. They are used to cater to the older crowd, but WWE primary target is kids, which is where Cena comes in, you can also even say this is why Hornswogggle has been a success. They're trying to train a new fanbase, they want the faces to be a real good guy, and they want the heels to have all the edge, which is how it should be. It seems to be working out find with them, because they're having more success now then they have had in 4 years, Cena has been on top most of that time, and business has been very good. There is no reason to fuck with it.

 

[Wrestlefreak 0]

Santino is entertaining. Get over it. People like the guy.

 

Exactly. Santino is still funny. I can't believe some people don't like him. IMO, his gimmick is solid. I love it.

 

In regards to Finlay, he did a great job selling the Hornswoggle beatdown. Haviing said that, I hate this whole "Finlay is the keeper of the helpless little guy" angle. WWE should drop Hornswoggle completely.

 

I also hate the idea of Big Show/Maywheather. I don't like it when celebrities attempt to wrestle, it's ALWAYS crap. if it's a boxing match, that's still crap. Big Show needs to get into a decent angle.

 

I don't mind them putting Cena in the main-event at WM24, as long as he doesn't go over. I'd love WWE to keep the title off Cena, even though it's unlikely.

 

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

WWE.com is kayfabing that Hornwoggle may have brain damage and internal bleeding of the brain. Guess he's off TV!