WWE General Discussion - March 2008

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Hey, I'm no fan of EHME, but no need to call him a fucking moron repeatedly. Take it to MCS if you have a personal problem.

[Wally Balls 0]

Truth, I want to know what you consider to be a good worker.

 

 

Workrate is pretty much a matter of opinion, not fact. I mean debating workrate is no different than debating politics, ethics or anything else, but I'm just curious as to what you think.

[The Truthiness 0]

The guy is a twat, all he does it start shit and throws around insults. If I get banned for calling him a moron, so be it. He never contributes anything, all he does is flame people, when he gets proving wrong, fuck that moron.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Let's try and keep things civil, at least.

 

As for Santino, the best spot for him is the one he's in now, as it makes the best use of his limited ability. When his act gets tired, then see if they can retool him and move him on up. I doubt it'll happen as I think he's just too limited in terms of in-ring talent, so he'll probably be turned into a sidekick-type once the comedy stops being funny.

[The Truthiness 0]

Truth, I want to know what you consider to be a good worker.

 

 

Workrate is pretty much a matter of opinion, not fact. I mean debating workrate is no different than debating politics, ethics or anything else, but I'm just curious as to what you think.

 

Well, if you're serious Pong, I wouldn't mind giving my opinion on what I consider to be a great worker.

 

[Wally Balls 0]

Truth, I want to know what you consider to be a good worker.

 

 

Workrate is pretty much a matter of opinion, not fact. I mean debating workrate is no different than debating politics, ethics or anything else, but I'm just curious as to what you think.

 

Well, if you're serious Pong, I wouldn't mind giving my opinion on what I consider to be a great worker.

 

I'm serious...no sarcasm intended...sorry if you got that impression.

[tekcop 0]

You know, there are a lot of us who don't think Shawn's that great. Although, I've liked him a lot more since this last comeback. He's changed up his style quite a bit.

[ANKLELOCK 0]

I agree with Truthiness. Santino has no business being pushed further than he is. He's found his niche.

 

As for Angle and Micheals. Eh, I like Michaels, he' not "great" but I think he's pretty good. Angle is TERRIBLE. I guess him still being considered good is kinda a product of the same IWC paradigm that makes some people think John Cena's a bad worker. The same paradigm that makes people think the faster the match, the more moves used, the less long term selling, and the more pointless, embarrassing matwork used is what makes a match "good".

 

Give me John Cena over the "great" Kurt Angle and HBK any fucking day.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I guess him still being considered good is kinda a product of the same IWC paradigm that makes some people think John Cena's a bad worker. The same paradigm that makes people think the faster the match, the more moves used, the less long term selling, and the more pointless, embarrassing matwork used is what makes a match "good".

Not really. Bret Hart is the reason we have the phrase "five moves of doom" and everybody seems to love him. Ditto for Flair, who Mr. Five Moves of all people called out for doing a routine match over and over.

 

I think it's kind of funny, honestly, that you cite Angle's popularity as some sort of out-of-touch IWC phenomenon where technical matwork is appreciated over any other kind of style. I agree this phenomenon exists, and I've often pointed it out as the reason why [Name Omitted] was as popular online as he was (despite little crowd heat most of his WWE career) before he disappeared down the Memory Hole of guys we'd rather forget.

 

The thing isn't just that Angle was technical matwork, the thing is that Angle was just about anything and everything. How many other matwork guys will moonsault off a cage for a pop? How many technicians tough it through a Foley-esque crash test dummy brawl like Angle/Shane at that one PPV? I'll agree that Angle in the ring is pretty lame NOW, but back then he would attempt to get over with just about any type of style and while he didn't move like pre-accident Pillman or bump like Terry Funk, he certainly cleared the bar even if he didn't raise it.

 

He's also the only matwork guy since Bret retired to be really good at the stick, as well. Again, his TNA performances blow goats, but let's not forget that the guy had become perpetually over by the time he was done with WWE. For god sakes, he was having promos about making Jesus tap out, having "wild jungle animal sex" with a black woman, and pointing out that he could say goddamn anything and the crowd would pop, and as if to prove the point all three of those were met with a crowd pop. The only truly boring period charisma-wise was the Luther Reigns, wheelchair-bound Smackdown GM period.

[The Truthiness 0]

Truth, I want to know what you consider to be a good worker.

 

 

Workrate is pretty much a matter of opinion, not fact. I mean debating workrate is no different than debating politics, ethics or anything else, but I'm just curious as to what you think.

 

Well, if you're serious Pong, I wouldn't mind giving my opinion on what I consider to be a great worker.

 

I'm serious...no sarcasm intended...sorry if you got that impression.

 

 

 

Well Pong, my opinion of a great worker is a guy like Bret Hart. I know I might get a lot of slack for that, and people might see it as the reason that I give HBK such low marks. This is understandable.

 

Bret Hart brought an epic feel to his matches, and it didn't matter if he was fighting for his jacket with a pirate, an evil dentist who wants to yank his teeth out, Jerry Lawler for talking about his parents, Stone Cold for being a bully, Personal hate for HBK, or anybody for the WWE Title. They all felt different and they all felt like something important, Bret made you feel like that. He also made you feel that the guy he was getting in the ring with might be the one to execute, "The Excellence of Execution, no matter how goofy they looked.

 

I think being a great worker is a guy who delivers from the word go and gives you a emotional ride whenever he's in the ring, and I think Bret is a perfect example (or Eddie) when it comes to this. Bret would start his matches out simple; he'd feel the guy out and see how he would go about working his way to a victory over the guy. If he was in there with Owen, he knew he had to stay on offense, and keep Owen from getting on the ropes. He knew Owen was more athletic than him, and he knew Owen was almost as good a technician as him. So to counter that, he'd ground Owen and beat the shit out of him; "the Rocket" was one of the few guys Bret was bigger than, so he'd overpowered Owen which made sense. When it came time to feed Owen some offense, Bret would make little mistakes, which flowed with the match. Like he'd let Owen frustrate him in to brawling, which would lead to the ref indirectly helping Owen out, Bret would get so wrapped up in beating the shit out of his runt of a brother, that he'd ignore the rules which would lead him to being distracted by the ref, which would lead to Owen controlling the match. This is a simple formula that guys have been using from the beginning of time, but Bret had a way of making every little spot mean something in his matches, and little by little those spots would grow and grow, and Bret had a masterful way of creating big time finishes, that didn't involve any real high impact spots, just smart and sensible wrestling. Sometimes Bret would never get the Sharp shooter on a guy, and he would make the crowd pop by beating them with a package move. The guy would still be over, because he made Bret beat him with something other than the Sharp shooter. Bret made his finisher mean something, a guy like Angle has made his finishers (both of them) mean shit.

 

 

Bret could brawl, but he didn't really try to out brawl a brawler. Sure he’d go punch for punch with a guy, but more times than not he'd lose those segments. He'd have to find another way to beat these guys who would just maul and overpowered him in matches. So his counter to guys like, Taker, Diesel, Vicious, and Stone cold was to break them down. He'd administer a vast amount of great leg work, and he'd even up the odds with the brawlers. He'd soften then up, so when they would get back in to a brawling segment of the match, Bret wouldn't lose this time, yeah he'd go blow for blow with the guy again, but this time when he felt the guy rocking him with right hands, he'd give him a kick in the knee, than go right back in to controlling his matches. But even when he had taken a leg from the guy, he still made it believable when the guy would come back and take over the match with one leg. Bret would set up a spot where he had to take the turnbuckle bump, a boot to the face, or taking a reckless risk on the outside of the ring. Either way, Bret knew the big guy would have to lead in to the final segment, so he'd take a pretty huge bump that would set it up. But it wasn't anything like a vicious chair shot, a big table spot, or some gruesome blade job. It'd be something simple like a flying in to the guard rail, something that you could believe that wouldn't change the tide of the match, yet not something that would make you suspend disbelief and make you think "Damn, that should’ve ended the match", like a lot of spots in HBK matches. Bret had a great sense of timing and great sense of when and how to build and pull a trigger on a finish, while the crowd was hot and wasn't expecting it.

 

 

There are few people in this business that's a better seller than Bret was. Bret would take a beating a he would work in the story of the match with brilliant precision and understanding. If he was getting hit by a Giant, he didn't fly across the ring like some guys do. He'd sell everything the Giant does like its death, a punch, a slam, a simple rest hold. Some guys think the way to get a giant over is to do whole lot of unnecessary bumps for the big guy (I.e.: HBK vs. Khali last year on Raw). Bret (like Cena with Khali) you could make a simple punch from a Giant seem like you've been shot by a 12 guage. Anything a Giant does too you should be able to end the match, that's how Bret sold it. He didn't shrug it off with his comebacks, he used a way to outsmart the giant and then take over with his technical mastery. He knew how to incorporate the damage he had sustained in the match earlier, in to get his comebacks cut off. He never ignored his injuries like certain guys do, sure he was potty sometimes, but he never downright ignored it like a lot of these other "Great performers'. Hell Hogan didn't even ignore selling like some guys (Angle) does today, and he was a fucking super hero. This is probably my biggest beef with HBK on a whole, that and it seems to take a lot of damage to end HBK, which isn't a problem if the damage didn't consist of chair shots, big Table spits, and than him kicking out of a guys finisher. It seems very silly too me. Bret didn’t go through all that to build drama, and HBK doesn’t have too either. It seems like a lazy way to build to the finish, which is odd because HBK best finishes come when he doesn't do the extra bullshit. That's why I retract my statement about him not being a "great worker", because he is sometimes.

 

 

These are just a few things Pong I think make a guy a great worker, Bret Hart was just an example but there are plenty guys out there who I think are great for different reasons. It's all subjective at the end of the day, but I really don't see why people get all emotional about it. Hell I said the shit about HBK months ago, and it seemed to rub people the wrong way that was partly my fault; I even apologized for it at the time.

 

I won't apologize for saying Christian and Kurt Angle aren't very special (or good) in the ring, because they're simply not...In my opinion anyway.

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

How can Santino stay relevant if he's never anything more than a jobber with a smart mouth? I mean is his wwhole career going to be "Let's see how Santino will get squashed in this feud?"

 

He was an aspiring MMA fighter until signing up for the beginners class in OVW in May 2005. So he's been wrestling less than three years - I can't possibly see why he can't improve in the ring knowing that.

[Wally Balls 0]

Truth, I appriciate you going well in depth as to what you consider to be a good worker.

 

I agree with you about Bret Hart, but it's not like Bret was in there with a bunch of slouches either. Austin, before his neck injury, was one of the best workers I've ever seen and he and Bret have had some more than memorable matches throughout the years. Not to discredit Bret at all, but I think that there are wrestlers out there other than Owen, that are more than capable of hanging with Bret in the ring.

 

I've always been one to pay attention to the crowd reactions in part, to determine a good worker, which is why I'm such a huge mark for John Cena and The Rock. I think part of being a good worker is being able to incorporate the crowd into your matches in one way or another. I don't think being a good worker is about being able to pull off a wide variety of moves at all. Which is why I agree with you about Angle not being a great worker and same goes with Punk. Although I think Angle did a pretty good job on the stick. As far as Punk is concerend, I don't think all of his praise is justified in his work. His promos are dry, and at times come off as a "Raven-esque" style. except not as good. I personally, just find Punk's style, along with all indy wrestling, to be pretty boring. I suppose I watch wrestling to enjoy the entertainment aspect seeing how I grew up during the Attitude Era. I can respect what guys over in Japan and the Indy's do in terms of their athleticism, but I can't find it wholly entertaining for every long.

 

I don't even have much of a problem with Khali or Mark Henry. They're huge monsters who shouldn't be expected to pull off high spots and elaborate moves. They should be expected to punch, and just beat the shit out of their opponent. I think a part of pro wrestling that is unique and probably the best aspect, is that it's a bunch of different guys, different sizes, and different fighting styles going at it to determine who is better (in kayfabe obviously). I like seeing a match like Rey Mysterio vs Mark Henry because it makes you think how Rey would combat Henry, the big huge monster, using the style that he uses.

 

Considering that we're in America, and that Pro Wrestling is an entertainment industry, it's only natural that I like guys with an ability to entertain, whether it's inside the ring or out. Guys like Rock, Cena, Bret, Austin...they all elicited a crowd reaction so electrifying, that it was hard no to consider them great at what they do. While I see a lot of praise in the IWC for guys like Ken Doane, Punk, Gunner Scott, Benoit, Joe, Christian, and the entire Indy circuit, I just can't find them entertaining considering that it's more an entertainment industry rather than an athletic one. Shit, I don't even find Danielson that entertaining. I always say that a great gimmick makes a great wrestler. Without a gimmick, you can have all the moves in the world, but the fans can still feel apathetic towards you. (Benoit, Lashley, and to an extent, Lesnar)

 

I would much rather see an epic match between guys that can fire the crowd up, such as Rock and Austin regardless of how many moves in the professional wrestling library are used, than a heatless match between two nobodys that are just filled with some high spots and a variety of moves.

[The Truthiness 0]

Truth, I appriciate you going well in depth as to what you consider to be a good worker.

 

Any time man, that's all people have to do is ask question, a lot bullshit could be avoided.

 

I agree with you about Bret Hart, but it's not like Bret was in there with a bunch of slouches either. Austin, before his neck injury, was one of the best workers I've ever seen and he and Bret have had some more than memorable matches throughout the years. Not to discredit Bret at all, but I think that there are wrestlers out there other than Owen, that are more than capable of hanging with Bret in the ring.

 

No doubt, there are a few guys who could go hold for hold with Bret any day of the week. The thing is Bret made the holds mean more than am lot of guys; a simple head lock would play in to the big picture Bret was painting in his matches. He just brought an emotion and a sense of importance to everything he did in his matches that it's hard not to consider him not a great worker. Bret just had a certain presence that he would bring to the ring, everything he did from 92-97 gave you a big fight feel. It all had meaning. He wasn't in there with slouches all the time, but some time he was. Isaac Yankem, Sid, and even a green Rocky Maivia. He had a few matches with those guys that were better than they had any right to be. But you're right, more times than not, he was matched up with good workers, which is why I didn't like how he took credit for carrying everybody in his book. Or how he totally no sold how good Ric Flair was.

 

 

I've always been one to pay attention to the crowd reactions in part, to determine a good worker, which is why I'm such a huge mark for John Cena and The Rock. I think part of being a good worker is being able to incorporate the crowd into your matches in one way or another. I don't think being a good worker is about being able to pull off a wide variety of moves at all. Which is why I agree with you about Angle not being a great worker and same goes with Punk. Although I think Angle did a pretty good job on the stick. As far as Punk is concerend, I don't think all of his praise is justified in his work. His promos are dry, and at times come off as a "Raven-esque" style. except not as good. I personally, just find Punk's style, along with all indy wrestling, to be pretty boring. I suppose I watch wrestling to enjoy the entertainment aspect seeing how I grew up during the Attitude Era. I can respect what guys over in Japan and the Indy's do in terms of their athleticism, but I can't find it wholly entertaining for every long.

 

I too think Punk is terribly inconsistent, and is overrated by a lot of people. I think that all falls on him, because on the Indies he was something special and he did seem like a diamond in the rough, nothing much has changed these days. He's still seems to have a good spot on the show, despite having most of the agents not care for him. He is still over, which really helps him out when it comes to having so much heat, but I can see why an agent would get annoyed with his work. On paper you'd think Punk/Chavo would be an awesome series, but looking back at those matches I was much underwhelmed. They weren't bad at all, still they wasn't what I expected, which is more Punk fault than Chavo's in my opinion, it seem like Chavo worked his ass of in those matches, where as Punk went out there just to pop the crowd and get himself over because he knew he was jobbing. His promo work on the indies was a little corny, but he seemed comfortable on the mic, and every now and again he would do a brilliant promo, especially during The Raven and The Summer Of Punk' storylines in ROH.

 

I can see you not liking Indy style, and I 'm using ROH as the measuring stick here so bare with me. Some time it comes off very boring and very redundant. In ROH you have about 3 people doing the same thing in their matches, and it always been like that. They went from a company that wanted to be like NJPW 94 junior's division, than they went in to more of a All Japan style with Joe, than they turned him in to a traveling NWA champ (like Flair) during his feud with Punk, and they seemed to be stuck in a hole until Punk freshened up the company with his 3 month title reign. Then they went in to the Danielson era which is usually viewed as secondary, since it was during the CZW/RoH feud. Many people didn't care about AMdrag during the period, and was more interested in a hot storyline that made sense and made for some compelling TV. That's what Indy wrestling needs, but as long as Gabe has an infatuation with different Japan companies, of course it's going to be boring to a lot more traditional wrestling fans. This might be your problem with Indy wrestling Pong, it's not trying to be entertaining (like you said) it's trying to be too much of a sport, while that works in Japan, it'd never work in the USA...And it shouldn't, Wrestling isn't a fucking sport.

 

The Champions all go through a phase, where it seems like they just have to have long title reign, for the fuck of it. The truth is, ROH has run through a lot of their best storylines in the last 4 months, and this comes after the Champ Nigel has been injured most of the time.

 

 

I don't even have much of a problem with Khali or Mark Henry. They're huge monsters who shouldn't be expected to pull off high spots and elaborate moves. They should be expected to punch, and just beat the shit out of their opponent. I think a part of pro wrestling that is unique and probably the best aspect, is that it's a bunch of different guys, different sizes, and different fighting styles going at it to determine who is better (in kayfabe obviously). I like seeing a match like Rey Mysterio vs Mark Henry because it makes you think how Rey would combat Henry, the big huge monster, using the style that he uses.

 

I don't have a problem with Khali, BDV, and Henry. They (like you said) are guys used to bully and maul guys, until a "superstar" comes and stop them. They're perfectly good excuses to be used as road blocks to the championship, or guys that is used to get over a Champion's "All odds against him" storyline. If people are really thinking that every super heavyweight is going to be Taker, Vader, or Show they have to realize those guys come once every blue moon, and that's actually why guys like Vader, Taker, Shown, Umaga and even Kane are so special.

 

I personally think Henry could've been added to that list, if they didn’t just feed him to taker after getting him over in 2006 and 2007. They fed him to Taker both times, and he had really become a good worker, yeah it took about 10 years but he finally found a gimmick that worked for him. He's good on the mic and is capable of having good matches with everybody on the roster. He could've surely been up there with Umaga as a threat.

 

Khali is as good as he's going to get for his size, he's used to hit guys hard, slam them, and squeezes there brains out. He is doing nothing offensive as a worker; he's just a big slow guy.

 

BDV is perfectly acceptable as a guy you use to get over a superstar, or elevate a new guy to super star status. He'll never be a champion, and if he is it'd be something like the IC or Us Title, which would liven up the division, and gets who ever beat him over. The guy isn’t really bad at anything; he's just a very tall and fat guy, which will always be a plus in pro wrestling.

 

 

 

 

Considering that we're in America, and that Pro Wrestling is an entertainment industry, it's only natural that I like guys with an ability to entertain, whether it's inside the ring or out. Guys like Rock, Cena, Bret, Austin...they all elicited a crowd reaction so electrifying, that it was hard no to consider them great at what they do. While I see a lot of praise in the IWC for guys like Ken Doane, Punk, Gunner Scott, Benoit, Joe, Christian, and the entire Indy circuit, I just can't find them entertaining considering that it's more an entertainment industry rather than an athletic one. Shit, I don't even find Danielson that entertaining. I always say that a great gimmick makes a great wrestler. Without a gimmick, you can have all the moves in the world, but the fans can still feel apathetic towards you. (Benoit, Lashley, and to an extent, Lesnar)

 

I agree with most of this, until you said the fans were "apathetic" to Benoit and Brock.

 

 

I would much rather see an epic match between guys that can fire the crowd up, such as Rock and Austin regardless of how many moves in the professional wrestling library are used, than a heatless match between two nobodys that are just filled with some high spots and a variety of moves.

 

I completly agree, I rather watch Rock and Austin punch, kick, and do their signature spots in a epic clash, than sit through Danielson wrestle for 60 minutes,for the sake of wrestling 60 minutes in a "indy dream match". I'm glad Danielson has transformed in to a ass kicker, because he is right now better than I ever seen him, I got to give a lot of the credit for that too Morishima.

[JPopStarKami 0]

As far as Punk is concerend, I don't think all of his praise is justified in his work. His promos are dry, and at times come off as a "Raven-esque" style. except not as good.

 

Are you referring to ALL of Punk's promos, or just the ones he's done in WWE/ECW?

 

Because he's done some really great ones outside of WWE/ECW, just saying, I've seen 'em. He can get pretty intense, I guess the scripted promos he's told to do are holding him back a bit.

[Scroby 0]

How can Santino stay relevant if he's never anything more than a jobber with a smart mouth? I mean is his wwhole career going to be "Let's see how Santino will get squashed in this feud?"

 

He was an aspiring MMA fighter until signing up for the beginners class in OVW in May 2005. So he's been wrestling less than three years - I can't possibly see why he can't improve in the ring knowing that.

It also depends on what style he was taught to use, he might be just familiar with that style. Wasn't Santino doing a shoot fighter gimmick in OVW? Then when he went to WWE and then his entire gimmick was changed, right? I mean he went from shoot fighter to Italian guy sitting front row who just happen to get picked.

 

The problem when you do a gimmick change, espically one like that, is that you have to re-package just about everything to make it work, espically your move set. You can't go from doing big shoot fighting moves to "well...I only know so much" without having to change your entire move set.

 

Not only that, but Santino's current job is mainly promos and put the other guy over, so basically his job is to get his ass kicked, relatlite a bit, then get his ass kicked again and put the other guy over...then maybe funny promo at the end.

 

I don't think Santino is a bad wrestler at any costs, I think the problem is that he's still transiting the gimmick change and we really haven't seen a match where he can show off what he can actually do in the ring. If I remember right, I do think people were really positive about his shoot figher gimmick in OVW before he went to WWE, so it's most likely the gimmick change that's affecting his in-ring stuff. I could be wrong but you just never know.

 

 

As far as Bret's "5 moves of doom" bullshit. I'm sorry but everyone has certain moves they do over and over again, so that whole argument of "Well Bret Hart only used the same moves and never really progressed from there" is complete and utter bullshit. If anything Bret only used the 5 moves of doom the way he did in short-jobber like matches, if you watch a match of his that was a good long wrestling match, that whole "Bret only uses the same moves" thing goes right out the window.

 

Besides that, why does a wrestler need a whole arsenial of moves? A wrestler really only needs to use moves that help progress the match, not break out 30 differant moves, where the other wrestler kicks out of each and every move no matter how big or impactful the move was.

 

Man, I miss discussions like this!

[goldengreek 0]

I agree with Truthiness. Santino has no business being pushed further than he is. He's found his niche.

 

As for Angle and Micheals. Eh, I like Michaels, he' not "great" but I think he's pretty good. Angle is TERRIBLE. I guess him still being considered good is kinda a product of the same IWC paradigm that makes some people think John Cena's a bad worker. The same paradigm that makes people think the faster the match, the more moves used, the less long term selling, and the more pointless, embarrassing matwork used is what makes a match "good".

 

Give me John Cena over the "great" Kurt Angle and HBK any fucking day.

LOL

 

 

 

WHAT ??!!

[The Truthiness 0]

I think he was saying he rather watch Cena than Angle and HBK, I think millions of other people feel the same way.

[justcoz 0]

Santino should be used similar to how they intended to use Roddy Piper when he first entered the WWF. He should have a talk show segment every week. Part Santino's Casa and part Piper's Pit. Maybe tape them at a studio with only an occassional live edition. They can be mostly comedy but can also be used to build or develop serious storylines and main event feuds. He can be the guy that causes tag team partners to doubt one another. For instance, next week, they could have Paul London confront Brian Kendrick with Santino being the antagonist and pushing Kendrick's abandonment. He can be the guy that points out the sexual tension between a wrestler and his female manager. The guy that tells John Cena that Batista is talking shit on him. Maybe he can manage a stable of wrestlers. I know... "Manager", "Stable" and "Wrestlers" are dirty words in sports entertainment but someone like Santino can be the mouth piece that could have helped someone like Chris Masters get over - you can imagine Santino standing next to Masters gloating and hamming it up during Masters' entrance, not letting him speak and being the in-ring commentator during the Master Lock Challenge. That's the type of role I see Santino being in.

 

Piper eventually did get into WWF main events and was allowed to be viewed as serious despite the gimmick, the fact that he often chickened out and was the BUTT of the joke with people making fun of him for the kilt. Santino could be pushed seriously if they'd put him the right program, with the right worker and gave him the right amount of time to work. It's hard to see what he's capable of when he's jobbed relatively quickly each week to people like Jerry Lawler. I'd like to see him moved to Smackdown to get into the MVP/Matt Hardy feud or sent to ECW to feud with CM Punk or something. I think he'd benefit being taken away from Raw at this point. His character doesn't get nearly enough tv time on Raw. They may be thinking that's the way to prevent him from growing stale but I actually think it's hindering him from being more over than he could be. I think Santino is someone who could actually run with the ball if given the chance to have freedom with his character and be a very entertaining part of the program.

[goldengreek 0]

I think he was saying he rather watch Cena than Angle and HBK, I think millions of other people feel the same way.

You must be under 16 years old

[bob_barron 0]

goldengreek is over 16 years old?

[Matt Young 0]

The Truthiness should keep this up. His posting has improved tenfold seemingly overnight.

[justcoz 0]

Santino should be used similar to how they intended to use Roddy Piper when he first entered the WWF. He should have a talk show segment every week. Part Santino's Casa and part Piper's Pit. Maybe tape them at a studio with only an occassional live edition. They can be mostly comedy but can also be used to build or develop serious storylines and main event feuds. He can be the guy that causes tag team partners to doubt one another. For instance, next week, they could have Paul London confront Brian Kendrick with Santino being the antagonist and pushing Kendrick's abandonment. He can be the guy that points out the sexual tension between a wrestler and his female manager. The guy that tells John Cena that Batista is talking shit on him. Maybe he can manage a stable of wrestlers. I know... "Manager", "Stable" and "Wrestlers" are dirty words in sports entertainment but someone like Santino can be the mouth piece that could have helped someone like Chris Masters get over - you can imagine Santino standing next to Masters gloating and hamming it up during Masters' entrance, not letting him speak and being the in-ring commentator during the Master Lock Challenge. That's the type of role I see Santino being in.

 

Piper eventually did get into WWF main events and was allowed to be viewed as serious despite the gimmick, the fact that he often chickened out and was the BUTT of the joke with people making fun of him for the kilt. Santino could be pushed seriously if they'd put him the right program, with the right worker and gave him the right amount of time to work. It's hard to see what he's capable of when he's jobbed relatively quickly each week to people like Jerry Lawler. I'd like to see him moved to Smackdown to get into the MVP/Matt Hardy feud or sent to ECW to feud with CM Punk or something. I think he'd benefit being taken away from Raw at this point. His character doesn't get nearly enough tv time on Raw. They may be thinking that's the way to prevent him from growing stale but I actually think it's hindering him from being more over than he could be. I think Santino is someone who could actually run with the ball if given the chance to have freedom with his character and be a very entertaining part of the program.

 

Also, they could add elements of Santino's MMA style into his current slimeball character. He can brag about being trained by a legit UFC/MMA fighter. Pay Alessio "Legionarivs" Sakara to do vignettes with him or claim to be his cousin or something. Do vignettes with him training with a Bruno Sammartino look-a-like or something. You know, piss off Bruno some more. Call Domenic Denucci and make it out like Santino learned these wicked MMA moves from Domenic Denucci. Mick Foley would get it.

[Wally Balls 0]

I think he was saying he rather watch Cena than Angle and HBK, I think millions of other people feel the same way.

You must be under 16 years old

 

 

Workrate and professional wrestling as a whole is a matter of opinion, not fact. Many people here hate the attitude era for the reason that they feel that there were no great matches during that era, well I personally found many great matches, not because of the moves used, or the spots, but because of the stories behind the matches. It's fine if you don't like Cena, but people who like Cena aren't wrong or incorrect. They just have different tastes.

[The Truthiness 0]

The Truthiness should keep this up. His posting has improved tenfold seemingly overnight.

 

Thank you.

[Scroby 0]

I think he was saying he rather watch Cena than Angle and HBK, I think millions of other people feel the same way.

You must be under 16 years old

 

 

Workrate and professional wrestling as a whole is a matter of opinion, not fact. Many people here hate the attitude era for the reason that they feel that there were no great matches during that era, well I personally found many great matches, not because of the moves used, or the spots, but because of the stories behind the matches. It's fine if you don't like Cena, but people who like Cena aren't wrong or incorrect. They just have different tastes.

DING!

[Enigma 0]

WWE.Com is reporting that Candice Michelle suffered an injury to her left arm during her tag team match on Raw with Maria against Victoria & Jillian Hall. She will have it checked out again later in the week. Candice said on the web site that despite the injury, she still plans to compete in her match with Maria against Women's Champion, Beth Phoenix, & Melina at WM24.

[Scroby 0]

I think he was saying he rather watch Cena than Angle and HBK, I think millions of other people feel the same way.

You must be under 16 years old

 

 

Workrate and professional wrestling as a whole is a matter of opinion, not fact. Many people here hate the attitude era for the reason that they feel that there were no great matches during that era, well I personally found many great matches, not because of the moves used, or the spots, but because of the stories behind the matches. It's fine if you don't like Cena, but people who like Cena aren't wrong or incorrect. They just have different tastes.

DING!

 

 

That attitude has no place within the IWC. You'll like what we tell you to or you're wrong.

....the hell is a IWC? Is it a cookie?

[mfn 0]

I think he was saying he rather watch Cena than Angle and HBK, I think millions of other people feel the same way.

You must be under 16 years old

 

 

Workrate and professional wrestling as a whole is a matter of opinion, not fact. Many people here hate the attitude era for the reason that they feel that there were no great matches during that era, well I personally found many great matches, not because of the moves used, or the spots, but because of the stories behind the matches. It's fine if you don't like Cena, but people who like Cena aren't wrong or incorrect. They just have different tastes.

DING!

 

 

That attitude has no place within the IWC. You'll like what we tell you to or you're wrong.

....the hell is a IWC? Is it a cookie?

Internet Wrestling Community??

 

[Jobber of the Week 0]

How can Santino stay relevant if he's never anything more than a jobber with a smart mouth? I mean is his wwhole career going to be "Let's see how Santino will get squashed in this feud?"

That's all some guys are good for. In the past this included guys like Val Venis, Mr. Ass, realistically Hardcore Holly should be here but he's protected more for loyalty, and nowadays Santino, MVP, and Matt Hardy.

 

Santino's silly accent will get laughs, but as soon as the guy starts wrestling people stop caring. All these people calling for him to be given this push as being some sort of pedigree fighter with training, etc, forget that he was introduced to us all as Just Some Guy In The Crowd the other year in an overseas tour, and it hasn't been long enough for marks to forget that.

 

It might happen in the future, but he'll have to disappear and emerge after a repackaging.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

WWE.Com is reporting that Candice Michelle suffered an injury to her left arm during her tag team match on Raw with Maria against Victoria & Jillian Hall. She will have it checked out again later in the week. Candice said on the web site that despite the injury, she still plans to compete in her match with Maria against Women's Champion, Beth Phoenix, & Melina at WM24.

 

I thought it would have been Jillian after she landed akwardly missing the (450 splash?) near the end of the match.