2008 NBA Finals: Lakers vs. Celtics

[Failed Bridge 0]

I personally think the Pistons are a better team than the Lakers and since the Celts were able to beat the Pistons then why can't they beat the Lakers too?

 

well, phil jackson is smarter than flip saunders. and kobe's much scarier in close game situations than anybody on the pistons.

The Pistons are a much more balanced team and I believe they're far better defensively too than the Lakers. I also don't believe that the addition of Pau Gasol is enough to make the Lakers such a clear cut pick as winner. Celts swept the regular season match-up before the Gasol acquisition.

 

At least I'm basing my decision on logical things and not going for the "Red is taking care of dem boys from up above!" defense that some people are pathetically using around the New England area.

[CanadianChris 0]

Lakers have clearly kicked it up a notch in the postseason, while the Celtics are playing pretty much as they did the entire regular season. Plus Doc now has no idea how to use his bench since P.J. Brown and E.T. signed with the team. Add in the Gasol trade, and that's what I see as being different from the regular season.

[Precious Roy 0]

I don't get how anyone who's actually been watching the Playoffs could say that the Pistons are better than the Lakers. More balanced? A lot of good that did them against Boston. And the Lakers aren't balanced? Not only have the Lakers been much more impressive, they've got the best individual player, the better coach, a better low post scoring option (Rasheed just doesn't bring it down low enough) and a better bench. The Pistons lost 7 games and are sitting at home, the Lakers have only lost 3 games and are playing in the NBA finals. I don't think the Pistons could have beat the Jazz or the Spurs, much less handled them the way LA did.

[Maztinho 0]

I don't get how anyone who's actually been watching the Playoffs could say that the Pistons are better than the Lakers. More balanced? A lot of good that did them against Boston. And the Lakers aren't balanced? Not only have the Lakers been much more impressive, they've got the best individual player, the better coach, a better low post scoring option (Rasheed just doesn't bring it down low enough) and a better bench. The Pistons lost 7 games and are sitting at home, the Lakers have only lost 3 games and are playing in the NBA finals. I don't think the Pistons could have beat the Jazz or the Spurs, much less handled them the way LA did.

 

Utah owns the Pistons, what is it like 5 years that Detroit hasn't beaten Utah?

 

The only advantage Detriot might have over LA is the front court, but that's minimal at best, and as much as I dislike Jackson, Flip Saunders is horrid.

[cabbageboy 0]

The Pistons of this decade are a ludicrously overrated team. Once we consider that the Eastern Conf. of this decade has been truly horrid, what exactly have they done that is special aside from being one of the top 2 teams in a lousy conference? They did win the 1 title in 2004, beating a Lakers team that was falling apart at the seams.

 

But other than that year, here's what the Pistons have done in this decade:

 

2003: Nets swept them in Eastern finals. No one cared.

2005: The Heat had them beat until Wade was injured, Pistons were able to escape that series with a win, lost in 7 to the Spurs in an all time clunker series.

2006: Won a bunch of games in the reg. season, but since Wade was healthy this time the Heat beat them fairly easily in the playoffs.

2007: Blew a 2-0 series lead to the friggin Cavs and let Lebron go crazy on them.

 

I'm sorry but in a real Eastern Conf. this team wouldn't be doing anything. The Pistons are a group of journeyman players who would be like the Charlotte Hornets or the Atlanta Hawks of the 1990s.

[UZI Suicide 0]

Even if the Pistons were a better team, the "Team B is better than Team C, and Team A beat Team B, so they'll definitely beat Team C" line of thinking is fucking retarded. Basketball, maybe more than any other sport, is about matchups. How the Celtics did against the Pistons has absolutely no bearing on how they'll do against the Lakers. Completely different teams.

 

[bobobrazil1984 0]

Even if the Pistons were a better team, the "Team B is better than Team C, and Team A beat Team B, so they'll definitely beat Team C" line of thinking is fucking retarded. Basketball, maybe more than any other sport, is about matchups. How the Celtics did against the Pistons has absolutely no bearing on how they'll do against the Lakers. Completely different teams.

 

I agree. that line of thinking is retarded and has been proven false time and time again in the NBA.

[alfdogg 0]

OK cabbageboy, we get it, you don't like the Spurs or Pistons. Shut the fuck up.

 

I'm sticking with Lakers in 6, but I'm less confident about that pick than I was prior to the Boston-Detroit series.

[Ripper 0]

I am picking the Celtics in 5 or 6 as long as Doc Rivers doesn't become retarded.

 

Rondo - Fisher = pretty even matchup. Rondo will have to hit jumpshots this series though, because the Lakers are going to design their offense around him. Rondo is long and scary good on defense. you might see a really really bad offensive showing for him offensively.

 

Allen - Bryant = Kobe will clearly have the lead overall, but if Ray Allen keeps his stroke going like he did near the end of that Pistons series, it could get ugly. Ray has always played well against Kobe, mostly because Kobe either has to chase Ray around all night or its a cross match.

 

Pierce - Uh...anyone = No one on the lakers can come close to thinking about slowing Paul Pierce kinda down? Who are they going to put here? Radmonovic? Walton? Kobe? NO ONE can come close to it. AND if Radmanivic is on the court, you have the "ray allen can hide here" guy. If its Walton....Ray allen can hide there on defense as well.

 

KG - Odem - Look, I like Lamar, but heres the deal. KG can defend him from the block, AND can defend him when he faces up. The mismatch that he has caused in the first 3 rounds...gone now. On defense, while he has played well, he can't defend KG simply because of that sick high release that KG has on that turnaround. Good thing though is that he just has to defend a jumpshooter.

 

Perkins - Gasol - I am going to catch flack for this, but Gasol doesn't like strong physical defenders that can block shots. Perkins is a strong physical defender that can block shots. Pau also isn't that dominate of a rebounder and Perkins can keep people off the boards. Offensively, Perkins isn't as bad as people think and can finish around the Rim. Pau...he kinda can get lost down there alot.

 

Bench:

 

The lakers have Turiaf who will bring energy and defense. he will also bring fouls and will help get a team that hasn't been getting to the line that much to the line. They also have Sasha Vuchic who has been very good offensivly and defensively in the series, but Sasha is probably going to have to see some Sam Cassell, and nobody bites on pump fakes like Sasha. And no one pumpfakes and jumps into a guy like Sasha. He is also going to draw Ray allen which will get Kobe some rest and that could be good. Luke Walton and Jordan Farmar will round out the bench for the lakers. But the problem is that Walton won't be able to defend anyone and the guys that will match up with him defensively will give him pure hell. Same for Farmar. Basically, you don't want him in the game when Rondo is in there because that could get ugly for the Lakers on the offensive end.

 

The Celtics SHOULD use Cassell, Powe, Posey and Brown with some sprinkles of Tony Allen. PJ will actually be useful in this series against Pau. Once again, Pau just doesn't play well agaist those type of guys. Cassell...this is his kinda series. Hopefully he won't go nuts like he did sometimes against the Cavs, but he is a clear mismatch against the Lakers backcourt guys. Posey...heheh. Yeh that guy is a asshole, and he is going to annoy the fuck out of Kobe. He is also probably going to be the best bench guy in the series. Leon Powe SHOULD play this series as he presents a good matchup with Odom, plus he is a hustle guy but if he doesn't play at all, i wouldn't be suprised. Tony Allen should get some defensive burn, although I am pretty confident it won't happen.

 

I just think this is THE nightmare matchup for the Lakers. The Spurs were also a monster matchup, but at the same time, they were older and not as good defensively. If you think about it, the Spurs took it to the lakers once, were up 20 one game, up 17 another. That is 3 wins they SHOULD have had if they could show any kind of ability to maintain which was tough with a bunch of "should be retired's" coming off the bench for them and they couldn't maintain a winning pace. I don't think that is the case here. I could definately be wrong, but I think the Lakers hit two great matchups for them and that one that SHOULD have been ugly with San Antonio, but they were too beat up from being a bunch of 50 year olds and two tough matchups in the first round(and not having the killer instinct that Kobe has).

 

When it comes to preference, i would rather see KG, Pierce and Allen get their rings. I also am so sick of the "The WEST is SOOO much better than the East we should not have a Eastern conference anymore" and one of my teams would have taken the NBA champs to 7 games...so yeah.

 

 

[Guest Epic Narcissism]

the "Team B is better than Team C, and Team A beat Team B, so they'll definitely beat Team C" line of thinking is fucking retarded.

I will build a statue of you

 

The Pistons are a group of journeyman players who would be like the Charlotte Hornets or the Atlanta Hawks of the 1990s.

God damn it, cabbageboy, no, the Pistons are not journeymen. These are guys who were drafted second (McDyess), third (Billups), fourth (Wallace), and seventh overall (Hamilton). Those are veterans who are really good at playing basketball. Shut up already.

[Ripper 0]

I have never been a fan of the "if this team doesn't win championships they SUCK" line of thinking. the Pistons are a very VERY good team. They happened to have lost to some SOMETIMES better teams over the years and that one year to the Lebrons(who honestly, playoff time, is probably the most dangerous player in the NBA with regards to Kobe who...well...comes in second in my eyes.)

 

its that kinda thinking that had a dumb GM break up the Hawks and lead to a decade of mediocrity and outright horrible basketball.

[godthedog 0]

"very very good but not great" team is about where i'd put them.

[Ripper 0]

I agree. And Great teams aren't very common. That 01 Laker team was great by the time the playoffs rolled around. The 95-98 Bulls were great teams.

 

Those don't exactly roll around very often

[Failed Bridge 0]

I'm glad Ripper broke down the match-ups because I really wasn't motivated to do so. Only thing I want to point out is that Tony Allen will not be a part of this series due to an injury.

 

I wanna see more Leon Powe than PJ Brown this series. I really think Powe has the ability to be something special and he's an under-rated defender.

[Ripper 0]

He is also undersized and can't stop bigger guys and isn't great when they face him up. He can defend smaller guys that play with their back to the basket and I think he is a pretty good help defender. But gasol and Odom would abuse him in this series. Brown could do a great job on Gasol though.

 

And that lack of Tony Allen might not be a big deal, because like I said, I am not so sure if Doc would have played him.

 

 

[Damaramu 0]

ESPN is showing the 1987 NBA Finals game 6. It's pretty cool to look back at it, especially because I was only 3 when this game happened.

 

Funny thing though. They have a ticker running across the bottom of the screen talking about the teams and their history in the rivalry. When it gets to the Lakers it mentions they've won 14 titles and it mentions how many finals appearances they've had. When it gets to the Celtics it doesn't mention titles and only mentions finals appearances. Do they not want to mention the Celtics have won the most? I don't get it.

[Boon 0]

And that lack of Tony Allen might not be a big deal, because like I said, I am not so sure if Doc would have played him.

Not that it matters, but Doc let Pierce and Posey cover LBJ. I agree- he probably would not have used T.A. which is a shame.

[Jorge Gorgeous 0]

ESPN is showing the 1987 NBA Finals game 6. It's pretty cool to look back at it, especially because I was only 3 when this game happened.

 

Funny thing though. They have a ticker running across the bottom of the screen talking about the teams and their history in the rivalry. When it gets to the Lakers it mentions they've won 14 titles and it mentions how many finals appearances they've had. When it gets to the Celtics it doesn't mention titles and only mentions finals appearances. Do they not want to mention the Celtics have won the most? I don't get it.

 

It's part of the season long blacklist that ESPN has been pulling on the Celtics.

[Ripper 0]

And that lack of Tony Allen might not be a big deal, because like I said, I am not so sure if Doc would have played him.

Not that it matters, but Doc let Pierce and Posey cover LBJ. I agree- he probably would not have used T.A. which is a shame.

 

 

Lebron would have dunked Tony Allen with the ball. he was just too strong and too big for Allen. Allen can guard 2's. He should have been on Joe Johnson more in the first round, but he was probably used correctly in the second round.

[cabbageboy 0]

It's pretty funny hearing ESPN wax poetic about the 1987 Finals. The Lakers may have been 65-17 that year but check out this epic playoff run they had:

 

1st round: Beat Denver (#8 seed, 37-45)

2nd round: Beat Golden State (#5 seed, 42-40)

Western Finals: Beat Seattle (#7 seed, 39-43)

 

I mean really what kind of horrible competition is THAT crap?

 

To compare with the Celtics that year, here's Boston (59-23):

 

1st round: Beat Chicago (#8 seed, 40-42...at least they had Jordan)

2nd round: Beat Milwaukee (#4 seed, 50-32)

Eastern Finals: Beat Detroit (#3 seed, 52-30)

 

Is it any wonder the Lakers won that Finals? The Celtics went through the grinder against some actual opponents, whereas the Lakers got to squash a bunch of jobbers.

 

[Damaramu 0]

ESPN is showing the 1987 NBA Finals game 6. It's pretty cool to look back at it, especially because I was only 3 when this game happened.

 

Funny thing though. They have a ticker running across the bottom of the screen talking about the teams and their history in the rivalry. When it gets to the Lakers it mentions they've won 14 titles and it mentions how many finals appearances they've had. When it gets to the Celtics it doesn't mention titles and only mentions finals appearances. Do they not want to mention the Celtics have won the most? I don't get it.

 

It's part of the season long blacklist that ESPN has been pulling on the Celtics.

 

Bastards! I'd forgotten there was even a team in Boston!

[Guest Epic Narcissism]

Did you consider for a moment that other teams' records could've been a function of the Lakers winning 69 games?

[Hawk 34 0]

Only Cabbage would call a playoff team "jobbers". Only Cabbage would use that term in the wrong context every time. I'll give you a similar example that you're probably familar with.

 

You are a fan of the Louisville Cardinals, as you have made quite clear. Their last championship was won in 1986. Who did they play? A #15, #7, #3, #8 and #11 before reaching the finals against a quality team. Why do you decry the merits of that 1987 Lakers season based on the quality of the opponent they were given, when as a die-hard fan of a particular college basketball team, you should know that the last measure of success included a run against what you would call "jobbers".

[Guest Epic Narcissism]

I'm going to fire up the search engine, but I'm pretty sure I threatened to suspend cabbageboy if he ever used "jobber" in a sports thread again. brb.

 

EDIT: No such luck, but I did find basically the same post I made today from a year ago:

The Pistons aren't journeymen. These guys were all top draft picks, and have all been great players in college and the pros.

 

Chauncey Billups: 3rd overall in '97

Chris Webber: 1st overall in '93

Rasheed Wallace: 4th overall in '95

Rip Hamilton: 7th overall in '99

Antonio McDyess: 2nd overall in '95

 

Journeymen? srsly? Cabbageboy once again demonstrates that he talks out his ass at all times. He should restrict himself to "the Miami Dolphins are on a jobber roll! That's what I call it, hehe."

Well, drat. You win this round, but consider this your final warning.

[Boon 0]

And that lack of Tony Allen might not be a big deal, because like I said, I am not so sure if Doc would have played him.

Not that it matters, but Doc let Pierce and Posey cover LBJ. I agree- he probably would not have used T.A. which is a shame.

 

 

Lebron would have dunked Tony Allen with the ball. he was just too strong and too big for Allen. Allen can guard 2's. He should have been on Joe Johnson more in the first round, but he was probably used correctly in the second round.

I meant he probably would not have used Allen much in this series, even if he was healthy. Allen on James would've been a nightmare, but he had moderate success against Bryant earlier in the year. There are still mixed reports on Allen's injury, so time will tell.

[alfdogg 0]

We're going to try an AIM chat tonight for the Finals. We'll probably start sometime around 8-8:30 ET. If anyone wants an invite, shoot me an IM at Alfdogg765, or send me a PM here with your SN. The room will be tsmnbafinals.

[Maztinho 0]

I'm going to fire up the search engine, but I'm pretty sure I threatened to suspend cabbageboy if he ever used "jobber" in a sports thread again. brb.

.

 

I remember you saying that as well, or at least using "insider" wrestling terminology in the Sports thread.

[CanadianChris 0]

I remember you saying that for sure.

[Guest]

Next time I catch cabbageboy applying a wrestling term to a real sport, he's being punished.

Wasn't hard to find

[CanadianChris 0]

Well, drat. You win this round, but consider this your final warning.

Lucky all of us, I had more success:

 

http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?...p;#entry2679932

 

EDIT: Looks like lots of people want cabbageboy punished.