UFC 86: Jackson vs Griffin

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I was wondering to myself last night if putting Tyson against Aurelio was a semi-political move because the big criticism is of Griffin not being able to finish and they put him up against somebody that's never been finished before. He's pretty much right behind Florian and Huerta in terms of challengers but I'm not sure if he'll ever get there until he actually takes somebody out instead of taking them to the score cards.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Almeida should have won, as he took rd 3 with the takedown and jabs, plus he landed the best shot of the round. All Cote did was score a few leg kicks. Hopefully he fixes the gassing issue, as it is somewhat understandable given his ring rust and that his last win was a short, easy, one. His GnP in the first round was impressive.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And rd 1 of Griffin/Jackson was a 9-9 round. Griffin was winning it up until the knockdown, so it should have evened out.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Leg kicks > Everything Big Dog did.

 

You know this to be true.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Moot point as Lyoto will take the belt from Forrest before anybody else. I don't know if Forrest and Wandy would fight each other, Chuck and Rashad are tied up and they likely won't give Rampage an immediate rematch leaving Machida as the only logical choice right now which SUCKS for Forrest as he's said in the past he doesn't want to fight him.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I'm sorry, but I think you guys are listening too much to Rogan blowing off Forrest instead of actually watching the fight. Rampage clearly won that fight... His punches were the more powerful and effective punches in the whole fight. Forrest threw alot, but Rampage displayed good defense. The only round were Forrest clearly won was the 2nd round. I had Rampage up 3 rounds going into the final round, the last round could've gone either way.

 

I honestly don't know how people can score round 4 for Forrest... None of his submission attempts were really close. I mean if Diego Sanchez couldn't beat Jon Fitch, when he had him in closer submission attempts in their fight, how the fuck you gonna score that round for Forrest, when Rampage was out striking him that round, and even slammed him out of that submission attempt.

[v.2 0]

And rd 1 of Griffin/Jackson was a 9-9 round. Griffin was winning it up until the knockdown, so it should have evened out.

 

Knockdowns are like the closest you can get to finishing a fight without actually winning, and the round wasn't that far out of reach that.

[Damaramu 0]

Moot point as Lyoto will take the belt from Forrest before anybody else. I don't know if Forrest and Wandy would fight each other, Chuck and Rashad are tied up and they likely won't give Rampage an immediate rematch leaving Machida as the only logical choice right now which SUCKS for Forrest as he's said in the past he doesn't want to fight him.

 

Well poor Forrest. He's the champion now, he has to fight who they put in front of him. If he wants to duck Machida then I'm sure Rampage and Machida will gladly fight for the vacated or interim belt.

 

And anything is possible with Chuck. I can see Dana putting Forrest aside or feeding him a can to fight to keep him busy, so that Chuck can go get his belt back. I really don't think the conspiracy theories can be too far fetched when we're talking about Dana's boy toy Chuck.

[BrokenWings 0]

Literally just finished watching the fight, had the exact same scoring YNA did. Forrest gets a draw, at best.

 

Rogan is such a nuthugger sometimes.

[Youth N Asia 0]

Either way it's one of those fights where I like both fighters a lot, and liked the fight a lot, so I really couldn't be mad with the outcome

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

I rewatched the fight, and I jotted down my thoughts on each round. As unreliable as these are, here's what I got.

 

Round One: Forrest dominates round until the knockdown, but shows no ill effects of knockdown, and avoids major damage. Despite dominating to that point, by normal MMA logic, Rampage 10-9.

 

Round Two: All Forrest. Rampage lands nothing. Forrest damages his leg, lands several knee strikes, gets a takedown, and dominates on the ground. Due to the fact that Rampage doesn't even land one punch. 10-8 Forrest.

 

Round Three: Rampage hits with significantly more power, but Forrest lands significantly more shots (yes, low kicks DO COUNT), and is the aggressor throughout the round. The best you can give Rampage is a draw round, but I do not see it. 10-9 Forrest.

 

Round Four: Rampage lands significantly more punches in this round, and gets a takedown. Forrest gets a close submission, but it's not enough to counter Rampage's success in this round with his aggression. Rampage 10-9.

 

Going into final round, Rampage needs 10-9 to tie, and 10-8 to win.

 

Round Five: Both men land roughly the same amount of shots, but I'd give the slight edge to Forrest due to his low kick almost always connecting. Rampage throws with much more force, while Forrest is the more aggressive fighter and keeps the pressure on. This could be 10-10...but on the basis of Forrest landing more, and being the aggressor, I give it. 10-9 Forrest.

 

Final tally: 48-46 - Forrest Griffin.

 

If I had to guess about why there's such a controversy, it's because Rampage hits SO MUCH HARDER then Forrest did, that it makes people think Rampage won the exchanges when one hit sent Forrest scrambling. However, that is not the case. Throughout the fight, Forrest lands more, and continually goes back to the leg. When Rampage does hit, it's got awesome power, but he lacks aggression throughout the fight (Round 4 is an alteration of that), which Griffin uses. If Rampage hadn't hit the uppercut in Round One, this could have very well been 48-45 in Forrest's favor.

[Damaramu 0]

I just hope in the next fight Rampage gets more aggressive and just knocks Forrest's ass out. He can do it if he just stays on him. I think the hurt leg kept him from chasing a lot of the time though.

[Warriorfan 0]

Look at this scoring

 

Adalaide Byrd who scored it 48-46, gave 4 and 5 to Jackson and Griffin 1, 2 and 3 with 2 as 10-8

 

Nelson Hamilton had it 48-46 with 1 and 4 for Jackson, and Griffin getting 2 10-8

 

Roy Silbert had it 49-46 with only round 4 for Jackson.

 

One !@#$^&* round for Jackson and this is legitimate. I won't go as far as to swear off the UFC as some are doing at other sites but this outcome is beyond disgraceful.

 

The UFC has now fallen into the "rigged" mire with boxing given this Forrest victory. As far as "low kicks" show any 6 fans this fight and I will bet 5 out of 6 will see that Rampage clearly won 3 RDs.

 

What other MMA title fight of this magnitude was this badly scored? Even more where did you have the kind of power shots Rampage landed discounted in favor of leg kicks?

[Warriorfan 0]

They really need to have RD by RD scoring announced from now on.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

The UFC has now fallen into the "rigged" mire with boxing given this Forrest victory. As far as "low kicks" show any 6 fans this fight and I will bet 5 out of 6 will see that Rampage clearly won 3 RDs.

 

What an illogical statement. Most of the experts on MMA said Forrest won the fight or it was a draw. I'll take their opinion over "six fans".

 

I mean, is that the BEST you can do to say Rampage won that fight? That "show any six fans this fight and five out of six will say Rampage won"? Seriously? Most MMA fans are as bad as pro-wrestling marks. I wouldn't trust any kind of serious logical determination to them by a mile.

 

Most of that fight was a kickboxing fight, and under K-1, Forrest wins that fight hands down. He landed more. He did more. He injured Rampage. he flat out outhustled Rampage throughout the fight with only round four being the exception. Had Rampage not gotten the knockdown in Rd1, then Forrest wins THAT round too.

 

If this is what the issue has devolved into, then this "controversy" is as idiotic as I perceived it to be.

 

[The Niggardly King 0]

What other MMA title fight of this magnitude was this badly scored?

 

That time Arona dominated Silva in PRIDE, but lost the decision.

[Dr. Zoidberg 0]

The more and more I think about it, the more stoked I am that Griffin won the title. If anything, it'll spark a fire under Rampage and have him prove that he deserves it.

 

and the Tyson Griffin fight continues to make me happy. Griffin/Penn would be a great fight, and I'd pay full fuckin' price JUST to watch that.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Oh man, that fight would not end well for Griffin. BJ would spank him standing and Griffin wouldn't be able to hang with Penn on the mat. I'm sure Joe has told Tyson the horror stories about how much blood he lost.

[Dr. Zoidberg 0]

I dunno, I think Tyson could handle it. Maybe.

 

No, I guess not.

 

Maybe?

[Warriorfan 0]

The UFC has now fallen into the "rigged" mire with boxing given this Forrest victory. As far as "low kicks" show any 6 fans this fight and I will bet 5 out of 6 will see that Rampage clearly won 3 RDs.

 

What an illogical statement. Most of the experts on MMA said Forrest won the fight or it was a draw. I'll take their opinion over "six fans".

 

I mean, is that the BEST you can do to say Rampage won that fight? That "show any six fans this fight and five out of six will say Rampage won"? Seriously? Most MMA fans are as bad as pro-wrestling marks. I wouldn't trust any kind of serious logical determination to them by a mile.

 

Most of that fight was a kickboxing fight, and under K-1, Forrest wins that fight hands down. He landed more. He did more. He injured Rampage. he flat out outhustled Rampage throughout the fight with only round four being the exception. Had Rampage not gotten the knockdown in Rd1, then Forrest wins THAT round too.

 

If this is what the issue has devolved into, then this "controversy" is as idiotic as I perceived it to be.

 

1. Rampage landed more power shots than Griffin. This is clear in RDS 1, 3, 4 by any standard.

 

2. The 10-8 RD. Griffin dominated the RD but a 10-8 for smothering, leg kicks and a botched guiilotine.

 

3. Rampage was the more effective striker- When Rampage landed a shot they were almost always definitive. This fact is even more evident upon rewatching the fight.

 

4. Precedent- Historically, champions don't lose their titles in a fight of this nature. It was a great fight and probably will be FOTY but Griffin's offense doesn't demonstrate to me the classic notion of taking a title away from a champion.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg 0]

I'm sorry. Your fourth point is kinda ridiculous. Just because "historically, champions don't lose their titles in a fight of this nature," you think Rampage should have won? While I agree that Rampage was the more effective striker and he landed more power shots, after he got smothered by Griffin, he lost a lot of energy and pretty much didn't do anything. He landed some decent punches, but Griffin was dominating and pushing the fight forward. He was pretty much in control after Round 2.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Ricardo Almeida vs. Patrick Cote - This fight was very boring after the first round, but I blame that Almeida for that on his keep away tactics. Nice to see Cote pull off with the win.

 

Joe Stevenson vs. Gleison Tibau - The typical Steveson fight: come out swinging fast and furious, take the hits, and go for the choke for the win.

 

Josh Koscheck vs. Chris Lytle - I figured Koscheck was going to win, but I have to give HUGE credit to Chris Lyte for continuing after being injured badly above his eye. It was hard to watch him keep going when he was bleeding like a stuck pig, but I'm thankful the ref decided not to stop the fight.

 

Marcus Aurelio vs. Tyson Griffin - This was a great opener. It was very exiciting and fast paced and Tyson pulled off the win.

 

Quinton Jackson vs. Forrest Griffin - This was a great main event. It was hot all 5 rounds with a great crowd enjoying every second of the fight that could've gone either way, but like in storybook ending fashion, hometown hero Forrest Griffin achieves the dream by winning the title. I'm so glad Rampage lost. Last night's fight reminded me why Quinton Jackson is one of the most overrated and boring UFC fighters to ever step into the Octagon. He's all power, just punches and some slams here and there. No finesse or real style whatsoever. Quinton Jackson SUCKS and that's why he lost a REAL MMA fighter! FUCK RAMPAGE!

[Bay Harbor Butcher 0]

Last night's fight reminded me why Quinton Jackson is one of the most overrated and boring UFC fighters to ever step into the Octagon. He's all power, just punches and some slams here and there. No finesse or real style whatsoever. Quinton Jackson SUCKS and that's why he lost a REAL MMA fighter! FUCK RAMPAGE!

Rampage sucks? Based on what? A decision loss in a pretty close fight?

 

A loss doesn't necessarily mean a fighter sucks. Anderson Silva made Rich Franklin his bitch (twice), but that doesn't mean Franklin sucks. GSP lost to Matt Serra in the first round, but that doesn't mean GSP sucks. Going by your logic, I could say "Forrest SUCKS and that's why lost to a REAL MMA fighter like Keith Jardine!"

 

Oh, and technically, Vegas isn't Griffin's hometown.

[Dr. Zoidberg 0]

It's where he trains, right?

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Rampage sucks? Based on what?

 

Based on the fact I never thought Rampage was that impressive of a fighter to begin with. He's even admitted before that he hates to train. Many of you are just being a bunch of whiny bitches, even though Quinton lost the fight fair and square. I hate it when fanboys make fucking excuses for their favorite fighter's losses. "Whaaaaaaaaa! The fight was rigged!"

 

Face it, Quinton came out looking like complete shit in that fight as he was backing away for most of it. And whoever says Forrest got lucky is an idiot. He did significant leg damage, outgrappled QJ, had almost complete ring control aside from the 4th round, and proved he didn't have a glass jaw. Griffin EARNED the title.

[Mik 0]

My entirely non-scientific opinion was that Rampage won the fight. Granted, I watched the fight in a bar without sound and surrounded by about 75 people huddled around one sub 50' plasma.

 

Everyone there, including myself, thought Rampage won the fight... but I need to watch it again more closely and more soberly.

[JHawk 0]

Round One Cleary Rampage's round IMO. Not by a wide wide margin, but Rampage's power shots helped him take the round. Jackson 10-9

 

Round Two All Forrest. If Rampage does anything after the takedown it's a 10-9 down, but he did nothing and got absolutely dominated. And for those say "all he did was smother him" I suppose elbows and punches are no longer scoring blows. 10-8 for Griffin (19-18 Griffin).

 

Round Three Close round that I gave to Forrest. If you look for just power shots you probably gave it to Rampage. However, Griffin was the aggressor for most of the round as Rampage played defense and backed up most of the round. Griffin 10-9 (29-27)

 

Round Four Jackson is aggressive and wins this one. Here the round is close enough to where the power shots ended up being the difference. Jackson 10-9 (38-37 Griffin)

 

Round Five Very tough round to score. But again, Jackson lands the power shots, but Griffin is more aggressive and lands more, stealing a close round. Griffin 10-9 (48-46 Griffin)

 

Looks like a good decision to me, although the fifth round was close enough that had the fight ended up a draw I wouldn't have argued. There's no controversy here. Even Rampage said "Naw, he just whooped my ass." There's no controversy here.

 

This reminds me of a boxing match years ago between Greg Haugen and Vinny Pazienza where Pazienza won a split decision when he ran the entire fight, and the rationale was "Haugen didn't hit him." The judges apparently ignored the fact that Pazienza wasn't throwing punches. Those of you calling controversy probably would have agreed with the judging in that fight.

[NoCalMike 0]

After rewatching the fight, it seemed clear that going into the fight Rampage's gameplan was to slowly draw Forrest in and then KTFO. The problem was, once Rampage's leg got all fucked up, he had a hard time putting any weight/pressure on that leg and he didn't have a practical gameplan from there on out. He was constantly hoping Forrest would make a mistake, like he did in the first round(well I dunno if it was a mistake as much as Rampage just firing off a good shot).

 

Forrest was the aggressor the remainder of the fight.

 

Personally, I scored the fight a draw, but I am perfectly fine with the decision and look forward to a rematch where you can bet your ass Rampage is probably going to be a lot more aggressive a lot sooner.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Quinton Jackson vs. Forrest Griffin - This was a great main event. It was hot all 5 rounds with a great crowd enjoying every second of the fight that could've gone either way, but like in storybook ending fashion, hometown hero Forrest Griffin achieves the dream by winning the title. I'm so glad Rampage lost. Last night's fight reminded me why Quinton Jackson is one of the most overrated and boring UFC fighters to ever step into the Octagon. He's all power, just punches and some slams here and there. No finesse or real style whatsoever. Quinton Jackson SUCKS and that's why he lost a REAL MMA fighter! FUCK RAMPAGE!

 

Although I promised I would stop the name calling, but you sir, are a n00b who has no idea about what a "REAL MMA FIGHTER" is... How long have you been watching MMA? Just this year? Rampage is overrated and boring? Yeah... Ok, was this the only Rampage fight you've seen? He has no finesse or real style? Yeah ok... That's why he went to K-1 Kickboxing and outstriked an accomplished kickboxer in Cyril Abidi, twice... Let's see Forrest go to K-1 and face an real striker.

 

I think fighter bashing should be against the rules of this forum...

[Maztinho 0]

EHME... it's MVP/Lil' Bitch. He's an idiot. We all know this. Just ignore him like I do. It'll be better for your blood pressure.

 

That being said, I'll just parrot the overwhelming statement that it was close, Rampage lost this fight in the 2nd where he did nothing and Forrest took the role of aggressor for the rest of the fight (which was close, but he was pushing the pace).

 

A rematch is going to be super awesome.