RavishingRickRudo

Benoit leaving Smackdown.

It was craploads of fun. I enjoyed this match more than I've enjoyed anything in a while. Superb: "Of unusually high quality; excellent". Are you willing to say that a match that had repetitive spots (could there BE any more chops!?), no actual, tangible, story or creative throughline other than "they don't like each other", and followed a formula that the WWE has used repeatedly. It was a random collection of spots up until the finishing sequence (which it clearly was). Have fun all you want, but it wasn't a superb match by any stretch of the imagination. The crowd is a key part of any match. I'm bothered when people act as if the crowd is irrelevant. Man, if THAT bothers you... If there was no crowd, the match would have suffered in many peoples eyes. Say I turned the sound way down and was listening to music, the effect wouldn't have been the same. If the crowd was in, say, Pittsberg, where the crowd wouldn't be as "hot", the match would have suffered. Yet, it is still the same match. The crowd can be affected by a match, this is true, and they do play a role. But it's limited. In the end, you don't rate the crowd, you rate the match. The match is the only thing the wrestlers really can control.

Ogawa is the Yoshida in this tournament, in more ways than one. I am disappointed that he was selected, as there should certainly be someone better, but as long as it makes for an entertaining match (in one way or another) I won't mind. When it effects the quarter-finals, then there is a problem.

Orton sufferes from Edge Syndrome - he's tall but doesn't have a lot of muscle mass so it makes him look lanky. The boy needs to seriously roid up to get his big push to the top.

I wouldn't call it * but I wouldn't call it "superb" either. It was the typical WWE Main Event Multi-tag, formula and all. The difference was a hot crowd.

"As for Benjamin vs. Flair, it all depends on which Flair shows up on Sunday." *Big Laugh* That's going to be one bad match cause there's only one Flair and it's the one in 2004 that'll be wrestling. Seemed you liked the crowd more than the show, though.

They aired "You're Welcome" tonight on SPACE (hmm, I just happened to download it earler today) and that end still tugs at the heart strings. I dunno what was sadder, that, or Doyle. It really got me hyped up for the return this week.

I was actually thinking the same thing - a post RAW thread. The only thing I look at in the RAW thread (aside from pre-raw thoughts) is overall show thoughts. I don't want to weed through a hundred one-liners to get someones thoughts on the show.

Well... I can't actually slap you... However I can pimp... JMW aka "The Man"

I should pimpsmack you for saying that.

Yeah, but YOU can't masterfully use the word "fuck". I swear, before this thread is closed I'll record all the versions of the word I've used. Looking back on this thread, I'd say P4P (Post 4 Post), it's the second best thread I've read. I think I'll compile all the "By the numbers" we've all done on each episode and put em in a review of the season.

Ah buh?

Man, I'm reading some of the first few pages and... I'm one funny motherfucker. *laughs* *wipes tear from eye* *sighs* Funny stuff. Even if no one laughs, I still have me to entertain

Hmph. You've either done such a good job that it's not noticable, or I haven't been paying attention. I think Spiderpoets post is the indicative of the condescending attitude that's given towards the WWE folder. IMO, It's detractors are much worse than those 'causing the problems'. "It's too negative! Why all the HHHate!? I luv me some McMahon!" The WWE folder probably has more people who are positive towards the WWE than negative, it's just the minority has a louder voice than the majority. I can't tell you how many times I've been mistaked for the entire board. But in reality, there are more happy-go-lucky posters than there are bitter, jaded, "smarks". What does this mean? YOU CAN GET POSITIVE DISCUSSION GOING IF YOU WANT TO! People will actually join in. You just risk the possibility of someone like me coming in and pointing out a flaw. You have to deal with it. You can tell me to stop, which if put properly (Not "Why are you always negative?", but "Rudo, I want this to be a positive thread, if you can't contribute then don't" - which can either be in a PM or on the board itself), can work. You make a post, you set out the guidelines, you get the discussion you want. And why is "smarks" a bad word? This is called the smartmarks forums, formerly known as the smarks board. It's like someone in a Star Trek forum using the word "Trekker" in a derogatory fashion.

The only time Cena ever showed real improvement was against Benoit in their #1 contenders match and that was because of his selling. That was the day Cena said to me that he had something of value. See that? He earned it. I didn't just jump up and down because of his promos or his look. I still think he's a pretty poor wrestler, but his performance that night in selling the arm showed me something. Dupree just has the dance. Brock was interesting from day 1 with his amazing strength and Benjamin showed great in-ring athletic ability. Dupree just has the dance. Haas, Conway, and Orton are still incredibly vanilla in the ring, however. The only time Orton showed some exciting ability was against Kidman on an episode of Velocity. Dupree just has the dance. Dupree isn't in the indies, he is in the WWE, where "charisma" isn't exactly a selling point any more since a fair amount of wrestlers have it. Again, he's a "lesser Cena". Like Batista is a "lesser Brock".

I do not appreciate my name being used in that context. It does, however, remind me to post in the Firefly thread The next episode of Angel looks to be one of the most "interesting" ones in the shows history. And I am not using the term "interesting" as in "it's bad, but they try", I am using it in the "holy crap how are they going to get THIS done." Very much looking forward to it.

It is low standards Goodear. People like him for everything but his wrestling. That's pathetic. *Big Laugh* @ "watch people develop". You don't develop in the WWE, you devolve. And Dupree can't get any lower than he already is. He is a sack of shit wrapped in a robe.

Dupree hasn't done anything (ANYTHING) to warrant appreciation. Even in the little things. He is the typical OVW wrestler who does the hiptoss, dropkick, bump and that's IT. He has shown nothing distinctive; he can be traded for Jindrak, Cade, Conway and there wouldn't be a difference because they all wrestle the same. Everything about him feels manufactured; from his tan to his hair to his wrestling. Nothing about him is natural; never do I get the feeling that he is a wrestler and that he is out there to win the match. He isn't "bland to some" he is BLAND. There is no reason for me to like him. Where did I talk about deserving of a push? Where did I talk about selling? Where are you getting all this from? I make mention of people being whores because it's true. A year ago when Cena busted out a lot of people were on his jock for no legitimate reason. They just liked the image. This is the same thing, cept Dupree isn't as smart as Cena is in marketing himself. And when you're a "lesser Cena", that's not a good thing. The Dupree love is based on IMAGE; it's nothing of substance, it's not because of what he does in the ring, it's because of substandards and very little appreciation for actual skill. They are whores because they will open their legs to and for anyone.

Bradshaw cuts a very good promo and does certain things in the ring that I enjoy - stiffness, for example. There are quality features that I can describe which make bradshaw appealing that are actually based on wrestling. Of course, you won't see me making "bradshaw, where is the love" posts because I certainly know his limitations. Is Bradshaw a good worker? No. Good workers have good matches at regular intervals, Bradshaw doesn't. Much like Albert, who I also like but will admit is not a "good" wrestler, Bradshaw a higher-end bad wrestler. Albert vs. Bradshaw from about a month ago was better than any Rene Dupree match that I've seen.

Oooh ooh oooh! 1. The dance 2. The robe 3. Fifi 4. The french accent 5. The dumbass smile 6. The dance and the robe 7. The dance, the robe and the dog 8. The dance, the robe, the dog, and the accent 9. The dance, the robe, the dog, the accent, and the smile 10. His name is "Rene" There, I gave you 10! BEST WORKER EVER~! For those of you spouting "potential". What do you expect Dupree to become in 5 years? The next Benoit? The next Flair? The next HBK? The next Rock? The next Austin? How in gods name do you see him becoming anything better than he already is? Does he show it at all in the ring? Or are you basing this on the "well, the rock wasn't very good before and now he's a mega superstar" which is basically shoving your finger up your ass and taking a stab in the dark cause you got NOTHING.

This is amusing, because you've basically said: If you aren't involved here, your opinion is meaningless, and I believe that's the attitude that's caused the lack of "old school" posters to be in that folder, important or not. No. I said that (your) opinion in the affairs of the folder is worthless since you won't be effected by the changes - you have nothing to lose. So if you don't have a stake or share in what goes on in the folder, then you can't see it in the same light as those who do. I've heard criticisms that there is too much discussion and things move too fast in the WWE folder - that is one of the primary reasons I post there - so who are you going to side with? Me, the person who posts there, or them, the people who don't? The decision made a few months ago sided with those who don't and then those who did spoke out against it. Our opinion was never considered before making the decision, yet theirs were. That's retarded. There's a GREAT deal of post whoring that goes on in the WWE folder, and it's been that way since before you started posting here. You say you have no sense of history, so what gives you the right to comment on the importance or worth of those who USED to post here, but now don't due to the reasons that a LOT of people complain about? Because I see them post elsewhere and am not very impressed. If they want to come back then they would come back. Again, it's pretty easy to make this place work for you. Cept a lot of people have bought into (their own) hype. So I doubt they'd even come back if things were changed, because they've labelled TSM WWE folder as a "lesser" folder and then proclaim their own brilliance. I don't know if you've ever actually talked wrestling with Sass or Loss before, so I can't be 100% on this, but those two are two of the most knowledgable people as far as wrestling history goes. Yeah, I like Loss and Sass. I wouldn't go as far as you in saying that, but they are certainly valued members of the forum (even if they never post). In addition, they also know what a good discussion/debate/whatever is about, so they're MORE than capable of eyeing a folder that is ripe with good discussion over a folder that is ripe with bad discussion and bullshit. Granted, they haven't been around very much lately, but you've got to understand that running this board is a task, and of course, if they weren't up to the task they shouldn't have taken the job... However, I'm pretty sure that most everyone would agree that they were up to the task. But they haven't done anything to improve the folder, at all. Loss seemed game at first but then he just gave up. There are people _in the folder_ complaining and they aren't doing a thing about it. So RRR, your WWE folder love is cute, but anyone who's actually been around for more than two years, has a much more broad idea of who is good, and what causes problems. Oh, so 2 years isn't enough... riiight. "WWE Folder Love"? I know the folders strengths and weaknesses, but you're confusing "anti WWE folder hate" with "WWE folder love", I've complained about the folder enough in this thread, but my complaints actually have something behind them. I'm in there, people who aren't don't have that same perspective. Yes, you've got a valid opinion, and yes, it's valued in the grand scheme of things, but casting those who have left off as "unimportant because they are no longer involved here" or whatever, is just plain closeminded. WWE Folder posters should take priority before anything anyone says outside the folder. It's like that. When the changes were made originally we weren't thought of and it showed. Putting more stock in their opinions than ours is really closedminded. This is the only post I will make about this. Feel free to discuss whatever otherwise, though. -Josh Figures.

Dupree is painful to watch in the ring. The guy is so fucking bland and uninteresting that he makes Sean Staziak look like Rey Mysterio Jr. crica 1997. What you call Charisma, I call crap. This is the WWE, charisma ain't exactly rare. Give me one reason to like him. The dance? Old. Fifi? Grow up. The robe? You want me to like him for his fucking clothes? Do you know how stupid that sounds? Fuck, there are so many whores around here, no standards at all, you'll cheer anyone; they don't even have to deserve it.

RRR, The fact that Benoit is beating mid-card challengers (Rhyno) in a few minutes as champ, instead of building to matches with mid-carders at PAY PER VIEWS (see A-train) shows that he has been elevated. The fact that Benoit is still not the central figure of any storyline and not having any important single matches since becoming champ shows that he hasn't. As far as crowd acceptance as champion, I was at the RAW the night after WM. Benoit received the biggest pop of the night. He's also received great reactions on Raw in following weeks. I said him winning over the crowd was laugable. Winning over the crowd was never a problem for Benoit - he had the crowd against Kurt Angle, he had the crowd against Brock Lesnar; people like Benoit. However, he still doesn't get the ~SUPERSTAR~ reaction like a Rock or Austin or even a HHH or HBK. They haven't positioned him as anything special. What show are you watching? The show that has Benoit vs. Rhyno in the midcard while HHH and Eddie main event. The show that had Chris Benoits 1st night as champ take a backseat to the Draft Lotto announcement. The show that has HHH still being the star of the show and Benoit looking like a second-rate champion. How did Benoit's title EVER chase play second fiddle to Orton/Foley? Benoits first night on RAW had Foley/Orton in the main event. Foley/Orton was talked about more on that show. The Raw before Mania had Rock and Foley closing it out. Rock/Foley was given more promotion time and talk. By being the MAIN EVENT at WM? It wasn't the featured match at Mania. It took a back seat to the handicap match and Goldberg/Brock and was mixed in with Angle/Guerrero and Taker/Kane. Main Event is merely card placement, it wasn't the marquee match; it didn't get the majority of promotion. By having CONTRACT SIGNINGS? Which didn't make sense AT ALL and was never challenged AT ALL despite making no sense. Another knock against this feud. Then there was Michaels/Benoit where Benoit actually LOST killing his motivation to be on RAW (To be the best). How many times did I hear "This is a good thing because it means Benoit vs. Michaels at Backlash"... well guess what? THAT'S NOT HAPPENING. That match which Benoit lost meant NOTHING. N_O_T_H_I_N_G. And they haven't brought it up since. Right there, 2 poorly planned events. Foley/Orton didn't have anything that bad. By enduring a week of a cliffhanger of "What decision will Bischoff make about the main event?" Oh yeah, cause everyone was buzzing after that one. You could hear the audience grown. Meanwhile Mick Foleys return (as well as the rocks) was built up WAY more. By having Austin personally introduce Benoit to Raw? Yes, Benoit not only playing 2nd Fiddle to HHH and HBK, but 3rd fiddle to Austin, it was great, I know. Austin had more promo time than Benoit, Benoit wasn't man enough to come out on his own (never is), and Austins involvement in the feud never capped off with anything. And what was the most remembered thing on this night? Benoit on RAW or Foley's promo on Orton? What was on last? By actually producing a GREAT match? The match is the only thing you have, and a match isn't a storyline and it isn't a feud. 1 match doesn't make up for 10+ weeks of poor storytelling. Foley had a mediocre match that had about 8 weeks of great storytelling. By having Benoit/HHH/HBK constantly focused on in the main events AFTER WM? I'm sorry, what? HHH yes, Benoit no. Foley has gotten more air time than Benoit, period. By promoting (before the show) a HBK/Benoit tag title match? Wow, you're using this as a PLUS? Benoit and HBK, two guys who supposedly hated each other, now best buds. Right. Oooh the tag belts! What's this you said about Elevation? By having benoit KICK HHH's ASS in the first segment of the Raw the night after WM? Where they couldn't even give Benoit a singular moment to himself where he could come out and thanks the fans and speak from his heart. Nope. Gotta have HHH come out and talk about how he lost the title in a 2 on 1 affair. Meanwhile, Foley was given time on his own to cut a promo that probably equals all of Benoits' in the past few months. By having Benoit go over in the main event the night after WM? You *do* know that the most notable thing about that match was Foleys run in, right?? By having HHH take out Benoit last week? By having Benoit cost HHH a victory in a Raw main event against Benjamin? Was Benoit ever accredited with costing HHH that match? And HHH/evolution took out everyone - Foley included. Oh, sorry. Foley got beat up in a BORING beatdown in the ring. Lost a decent match at WM. Did a run-in the night after. Gave a taped promo. All of which made more sense and had more meaning than the Benoit/HHH 'feud', no matter how poorly you describe it. Foley/Orton *really* upstaged Benoit's title scene! Last Segment before Mania WHAT WAS IT? More focus on the RAW Benoit "debuted" WHAT WAS IT? They *really* did.

The idea of people outside the forum being more important than those in is the real foolishness. If they aren't involved then what gives their opinions worth? You can offer the feedback, but that doesn't mean it should be accepted, considered, then implemented despite them not losing a thing... which is what the braintrusts here did. I've heard complaints on other boards about TSM that were by people who haven't been there in 6 months and the majority of complaints were generalizations that contradicted each other at times, outdated, or just plain wrong. If people actually wanted to post, they'd post. It's that simple. The people who "go outside" TSM to forums like SNKT don't post very much there in the first place, so I think the question is not about the folder than it is about the current product - I just don't think they're interested in it enough... And the people in Hardcore can't possibly be weighted down by more shit in the WWE folder. Yes, there are problems with the WWE Folder. Yes, it can be improved. But not for the benefit of those outside of it. That risks alienating those within it, which means you are sacrificing someone who "might" post for someone who already "is" posting.

Your names don't really impress me, sorry. I don't know if they were meant to, but I don't really have a sense of history or perspective with this place, and the names that I do know aren't very different. I only note a few posters/people for very-good to excellent discussions on wrestling, and maybe one of them is on that list. They don't post often at SNKT either. If the posters want to come back, then come back. There's no brick wall that's stopping them (that is, if they have already signed up.) It's pretty easy to customize this place to yourself - it's an interactive forum and you can control it to some extent. If you want a more intelligent discussion, then make one yourself. I like the folder for the most part, it's a LOT better than the majority of the wrestling boards out there, and I don't like the idea of the minority of people on the outside having more influence and making changes for the majority of people on the inside. If the Hardcore Folder (which was even cited) has problems with the WWE folder, that's like Mexicans criticizing the U.S. government for being corrupt, not exactly the best source for legitimate complaints. My (current) problem deals with people whose posts shove the good threads down; I want that changed, I'm actually someone who would be directly affected by that change, that should have a lil more weight than someone who probably wouldn't be.