Are coaches overrated?

[Guest Redhawk]

Sometimes I think coaches/managers get WAY too much credit when a team wins (Jon Gruden, Bill Parcells, Lawrence Frank). And at the same time, they often get too much blame (Grady Little). At the higher levels (college and pro), are coaches really THAT crucial? Do they deserve all the credit/blame they get?

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I don't think Grady Little gets enough blame. Unlike the first group you mentioned...you can look at what Little did...and see the exact moment where he didn't do his job properly. No biggie though...it was only the most important game that his team had played...in a long, long time.

 

 

Football is harder to judge. 99% of the coaches work is done in between games. They should be able to get the in game stuff right. But as we've seen...for some reason most of them can't.

[Gert T 0]

It's the typical sports paradox, as they do get a lot of credit when they win, but much of the blame. Coaches aren't supposed to cater to players, but often it is a fine line, particularly in basketball since their are only 5 out on the court and 12 on the team.

 

I think they do deserve the credit, for two reasons, the good ones find ways to keep the teams together and usually playing for one common goal, not 5 or 6.

 

And second, the players don't get fired first.

 

 

Don't get me wrong though, some coaches are not as great as THEY think they are.

[teke184 0]

Some coaches are as good as they're thought to be, especially on the college level where they have more control over who plays for them and in what position. In the pros, it's a combination of the coach and the GM.

 

 

The effects of a coach are easiest to judge when they replace a previous coach and run their plans using the players he/she inherits.

 

A good example of this would be Jack McKeon (sp?) of the Marlins, who came in at mid-year and turned a cellar dwellar into the World Series champ.

 

Another example of this would be the current Nets coach, as he took over for Byron Scott and went on a long winning streak that was only snapped recently.

[Guest Redhawk]

I don't think Grady Little gets enough blame. Unlike the first group you mentioned...you can look at what Little did...and see the exact moment where he didn't do his job properly. No biggie though...it was only the most important game that his team had played...in a long, long time.

Here's why I don't really blame Little: It's not like he left Tim Wakefield in the game too long. He left the (arguably) best pitcher in baseball in an ALCS game. What's wrong with that?

 

Compare it to Phil Jackson having a flu-ridden Michael Jordan play the whole game in the 1997 NBA Finals. MJ scored like 45 points. If Pedro is truly one of the great ones, he should have got the job done, and I won't blame the coach for not yanking him? Isn't that how sports are supposed to be? PLAYERS making plays?

 

Pedro gave up those hits, and as my rommate (and huge BoSox fan) pointed out, all of those crucial hits were on 2-strike counts. So it's not like Pedro was just getting racked on the first pitch or anything. Blame Pedro, not Grady. All he did was depend on a future Hall-of-Famer who's supposed to be the franchise player.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I could see Pedro visably tiring in the 7th inning. The hitters were hitting the ball further, and it was taking longer to get them out. Besides, when I find myself screaming at the tv for Grady Little to "take him OUT!", you can't help but second guess the manager.

 

Overall though, I agree. Managers in baseball at least are overrated. There's only so much they do before the players take over. They can make personnel decisions, but ultimately they don't make the players hit, field, or pitch better.

[Youth N Asia 0]

Overall I say coaches are overrated. But then you have guys like Scotty Bowman and Phil Jackson who win at everything, but then again they always have great teams behind them.

[Slayer 0]

Re: Grady Little

 

He let his player (Pedro) control his decision, which is something a manager should never do. That's ignoring too that Pedro was visibly tired, is known to gas over 100 pitches and that reliever Timlin had been money against the Yankees.

 

As for the actual question, coaching is not overrated, as it has been well documented that a good coach can elevate a mediocre team and a bad coach can run a good team into the ground. Now, if you want to call Phil Jackson overrated because he's only coached good teams, I have to ask this question: How come Doug Collins and Del Harris couldn't do the same thing he could with essentially the same team core?

 

Parcells, especially after this year, has only helped cement his status as one of the greatest of all time. Every time he's come to a team with a losing record, they're in the playoffs within two seasons.

 

(years in italic are the season before Parcell's first year, bold are Parcell's years)

 

Giants

1982 4-5

1983 3-12-1

1984 9-7 (1-1 ps)

 

Patriots

1992 2-14

1993 5-11

1994 10-6 (0-1 ps)

 

Jets

1996 1-15

1997 9-7

1998 12-4 (1-1 ps)

 

Cowboys

2000 to 2002 5-11 (all three seasons)

2003 10-6 (0-1 ps)

 

I think that speaks for itself

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Yes, they are in general with the exception of football where so much depends on strategy.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

In football, coaching is EVERYTHING. Game planning, defensive schemes, strategies to take advantage of the other teams' weaknesses and mask your own...

 

In other sports, I'd imagine they are overrated. But not in football.

[snuffbox 0]

Bill Parcells deserves every bit of adulation he's ever received.

 

I honestly think he could motivate/coach ANY team to a winning season. I dont really like the guy, seems kinda assish to me...but I definitly respect him as much as any coach, ever.

 

Anyone wanna say that Vince 'God' Lombardi is overrated?

[The Czech Republic 0]

Look what Jerry Sloan did with the Utah Jazz this year. The coaching isn't everything, but it's definitely something.

 

I'd say football coaches are the most important and hockey coaches the least. In hockey, the coaches come and go like nothing, as we see, and the captain is probably more integral in a lot of cases.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Coaches are only overrated if they're black and the media want to make them look good.

 

Except for Racist Dusty of course...

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Something that should be mentioned that any baseball fan knows, is that coaching in more impotant in the National League where there is an added variable of the pitcher hitting. There is a lot more strategy involved in the NL which is why many people (including myself) are against the DH.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Something that should be mentioned that any baseball fan knows, is that coaching in more impotant in the National League where there is an added variable of the pitcher hitting. There is a lot more strategy involved in the NL which is why many people (including myself) are against the DH.

Agreed. Down with the DH rule. American League sucks.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

OK. Serious question here.

 

What is so important about hockey coaches?...

[Cartman 0]

DH rocks!

 

Who the hell wants to see some pitcher TRY to hit or usually bunt.

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

Another example of this would be the current Nets coach, as he took over for Byron Scott and went on a long winning streak that was only snapped recently.

Eh, Frank just came in at the right time. The Nets had stopped playing for Scott completely(especially that whiner, Jason Kidd) and they just happened to fire Scott when NJ hit the creampuff part of their season where every team they played(except for a Detroit team that couldn't really score at that point) sucked ass until they played Minnesota.

 

When they beat some better teams, maybe then I'll believe the hype.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

DH rocks!

 

Who the hell wants to see some pitcher TRY to hit or usually bunt.

Boo.

 

NL style > AL style...

[Vern Gagne 0]

DH DH DH DH DH

 

 

How great is Bill Belichek. Two super Bowls yes, but New England didn't even make the playoffs the other year. The team was relatively the same, but he wasn't has much of a genius 2 years ago.

[razazteca 0]

Why won't Larry Brown play rookies?

 

Why do coaches play injuried players in games that are not important?

 

Why do GMs and owners want to be coaches?

[Guest Redhawk]

Why won't Larry Brown play rookies?

 

Why do coaches play injuried players in games that are not important?

 

Why do GMs and owners want to be coaches?

1. He just won't play Darko. I bet if Detroit had done the smart thing and picked Carmelo, he would be starting. If not, than Brown is truly a dumbass.

 

2. They want to give fans the illusion that every game is important. If they admitted some games weren't as important, fans would demand those games have lower ticket prices, I guess.

 

3. They all have massive egos.

[razazteca 0]

Speedy Claxton broke his hand playing hurt. And too many QBs play hurt.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

DH DH DH DH DH

 

 

How great is Bill Belichek. Two super Bowls yes, but New England didn't even make the playoffs the other year. The team was relatively the same, but he wasn't has much of a genius 2 years ago.

Weren't there some injuries that hit the team during that off-playoff year?

 

And didn't the team just miss postseason play (then again if your team is not the Cardinals you "just miss" NFL postseason play)...

[snuffbox 0]

DH DH DH DH DH

 

 

How great is Bill Belichek. Two super Bowls yes, but New England didn't even make the playoffs the other year. The team was relatively the same, but he wasn't has much of a genius 2 years ago.

I compare what Belichek has done in New England to what Lombardi did in Green Bay in the '60s. There arent alot of 'stars' on either team...just very cohesive, solid, well coached and practiced teams.

 

Im definitly no Pats fan....and we worship Lombardi here in Wisconsin.

[Cartman 0]

Yea the Pats were 9-7 with a very tough schedule(as they will have this coming season). I don't expect the Pats to come close to repeating what they did this year, but in another year or two they will be dominant again as long as Belichick and Pioli are running the show and picking the personnel.

[The Czech Republic 0]

OK. Serious question here.

 

What is so important about hockey coaches?...

Nothing, really. Like I said, I think of Joe Sakic and Steve Yzerman as in charge of their respective teams moreso than whoever Colorado's coach is and Dave Lewis.

 

Scotty Bowman was a good coach, yes. But look how absolutely loaded his last four Stanley Cup teams were. With Lemieux, Jagr, Francis, the Samuelssons, and Kevin Stevens, of course you're going to win. Likewise with the Red Wings, though the '97 roster was notably different than the 2002 roster other than Yzerman, Lidstrom, and Fedorov.

 

It's also worth noting that New Jersey's three Stanley Cups in the nine years were each won by a different (although trap-playing all the same) coach. But it's hockey so damned if I know their names.

[Guest Redhawk]

So of the major sports (baseball, basketball, football, hockey), which coach has the most impact on his team's success? Most people would say college or pro football, but with so many assistants, is that really true?

 

Parcells is a good coach, sure, but he's also got a defensive coordinator, a defensive line coach, a linebackers coach, a secondary coach, etc...and that's just on one side of the ball.

[the max 0]

Nothing, really. Like I said, I think of Joe Sakic and Steve Yzerman as in charge of their respective teams moreso than whoever Colorado's coach is and Dave Lewis.

Tony Granato.

 

It's also worth noting that New Jersey's three Stanley Cups in the nine years were each won by a different (although trap-playing all the same) coach. But it's hockey so damned if I know their names.

 

Jacques Lemaire, Larry Robinson, Pat Burns.

[NoCalMike 0]

as a WHOLE, yes coaches are overrated, but the REALLY GREAT ONES are underrated. Football for example. Bill Walsh INVENTED an offense that was a success and is still used today by many teams, as did Joe Gibbs with the singleback-play action heavy offense. These guys are on a level of their own, seperated from other great coaches like Bill Parcells, who yes, is a good coach and can motivate, but he hasn't broken any new ground with his coaching style or playbook....etc....