Rob Feinstein........

[Guest OSIcon]

About that whole "You aren't supporting one person, but 100s" argument. I get it, but, its still not right.

 

If person A did something bad and it put company A in a bad light, but we still spent money on company A because person B, C, D, E, F, and G still worked there so we had to support them, isn't a percentage of our money still going to person A even though we don't want it to?

 

Its like the little kids on the playground and the one kid with the basketball. If one person makes him mad, he is taking his ball and leaving because he doesn't want that one guy to play with his ball. Thats the same thing in this situation. We don't want RF to have our money to play with because he is a bad man. A very bad man.

 

I don't think anyone will disagree with you on that point.

 

However, Feinstein is gone from the company in both a management and ownership capacity. They won't be able to run the Rexplex next Saturday if they don't have all the paper work showing he is completly gone. So right now, that argument is neither here nor there.

 

When I read the "your supporting ROH and not one person" I had a feeling some people would read it differently then how I read it and how I think it was intended to read. I didn't take it has them saying "You are still supporting Feinstein along with all the wrestlers, other staff members, ect." That would be silly and counterproductive to the other actions ROH has taken (such as completly disolving Feinstein from the company). It wouldn't make sense to take actions that let people know Feinstein is gone only to say that "you are still supporting him."

 

Instead, the message was more along the lines of "When you support ROH and when you supported it in the past, you were supported the wrestlers, all the office members, the refs, ect. You weren't just supporting Feinstein. So it is importanted that you don't stop supporting ROH because of Feinstein's actions since he is now gone and you will be hurting everyone else who works for ROH."

[Jobber of the Week 0]

The wrestling business is filled with bastard scum, I want clear proof, not words.

Well, some people like you will never be satisfied. I don't know how more clear you can be than to say "Oh, that guy? He's not involved anymore."

 

You can sit around and shout "But it's wrestling!!!" all you want but even casinos have to run like legitimate businesses (at least since the mob's involvement was finished off in the 70s-80s.)

 

You wouldn't want a guy like that tied to your records in real life. Imagine if there's enough against him that the police get involved. It won't be a secret then. Then what? What if the fed runs low on money because of reduced numbers and sales and needs to borrow money, and you've got a registered sex offender at the top of your totem pole? Bad idea.

 

I believe he's gone because people there want to make money, and having him around is counterproductive to that.

[JHawk 0]

Can I get a reee-wind? I only met the guy once. Feinstein's a jerk and so were the ROH crowd>

Do you want to explain "so were the ROH crowd" for us please? Because I find it hard to believe you'd insult an entire fanbase because Rob Feinstein's an asshole.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Wow, can't believe I ignored this thread.

 

I don't really care for RoH, but anyone who defends RF (not RoH, but him alone) and says "Oh, it was an honest mistake" should be stabbed in the eyes.

 

No one boycotted WWF when Vince McMahon was about to go to jail for 10 years on steroid distributions, so boycotting RoH for RF's....bizarre lifestyle shouldn't be any different.

 

 

But all thats left to say is Fuck Rob Feinstein.

[geniusMoment 0]

I agree the biggest proof for me would be for the police to go after rob and then see what happens. I also realize that the rest of ROH have nothing to do with the police going after Rob. Basically, I am taking a wait and see approach, if after a period of time it appears Rob is completely gone, then I will accept it. It is just that I do not trust people in this business, there are way too many lies.

The true tragedy in this is it appears from everything that has been said that the police are more interested in hurting the people who caught Rob. Sometimes I do not understand people.

[MrRant 0]

Hold on... Steriods = Anal sex with 14 year olds?

[Michrome 0]

Apparently ROH will provide documents to prove Feinstein is gone when it's all legally settled. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt until then, but if I find out that this is all a charade, I'm done with supporting them.

[geniusMoment 0]

Believe me, I hope Rob is really gone. ROH is a kickass product, this just really sucks.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

http://www.liveaudiowrestling.com/wo/news/...lt.asp?aID=9798

 

Anyone who thinks RF is no longer associated with either RF Vid or ROH should read the above from wrestlingobserver.com. I totally agree with the author.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Hold on... Steriods = Anal sex with 14 year olds?

Going to jail for 10 years is pretty much a bad cloud over anyone, but yeah, RF wanting to have sex with a 14 year old boy is a lot worse in the publics eye.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

http://www.prowrestlingradio.com/diary.html

 

That is Eric Guargilo's (sp?) journal. I think this is worth reading by everyone.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Hold on... Steriods = Anal sex with 14 year olds?

This is what I'm afraid of.

 

Nobody knows if he's having anal sex with 14 year olds. There's no documented proof anywhere that he's doing that. What we know is that someone got in an internet chat room with him and pretended to be a kid when they aren't, and encouraged him to come over, and after hesitation he pressed on with it.

 

Obviously, it says something about his moral character that he'd follow through on that, and that's why ROH is smart in removing his baggage from themselves.

[Guest OSIcon]

I just skimmed the article and will touch on the second to last paragraph because he makes a lot of false assumptions in it, mainly from a business standpoint.

 

Even if one argues that Feinstein’s action should not reflect

negatively on RF Video and Ring of Honor, buying the ownership transfer

touted by all parties takes a true dullard. In his first and only

public statement since his outing, Feinstein claimed to resign from two

companies that he was heretofore reported to have owned autonomously.

His statement would be funny in its parody of disgraced Fortune 500

CEOs if it weren’t so pathetic. Owners of small businesses don’t have

the option of merely stepping aside the way a corporate leader would.

 

Miller is completely wrong here. A corporation is a corporation regardless of size. The Disney's and ROH's of the world all work under the same corporate structure regardless of size. A corporation is simply a legal entity that is separated from any individuals. A corporation has its own finances, its own assets, and its own rights and is not tied in with any one individual. Both ROH and RF Video are registered with the Better Business Bureau as corporations and therefore are recognized as such. They are just as much of a corporation as Disney is and thus abide by the same regulations and practices.

 

One of the perks of having a coroporation over say a proprietership or partnership is that it is not tied to just one person or two people. In a business owned by one person or a partnership, the assets of the company belong to that person or to that person and his partner. In a corporate structure, a corporation is its own entity and thus not tied to one person. Rather they have a governing body. This allows for a situation where a governing body (the board of directors) can remove a President and/or CEO of an organization because the assets of the organization don't belong to the CEO, they belong to the corporation. This is what ROH did.

 

Miller fails to not that that there is a difference between small partnerships/proprieterships and small corporations. This sentence is therefore pretty inaccurate: "Owners of small businesses don’t have

the option of merely stepping aside the way a corporate leader would." If it read "Owners of proprieterships or partnershups don't have the option of merely stepping aside the way a corporate leader would" then the statement would be accurate. However, he is categorizing business based on size rather than structure which is really a ten year-old way of viewing the business world and is just inaccurate.

 

When leadership of a small business

changes, it is the result of the owner selling, plain and simple.

 

Same thing. Corporations can be large or small. RF Video and ROH are small corporations. When he says "a small business", he means a proprietership or partnership.

 

In

the case of RF Video and Ring of Honor, no reasonable person could

believe that Feinstein completed all the details of the sale of these

two companies in the past 48 hours.

 

I actually agree with this to an extent. Take out the word "sale" and replace it with "corporate restructuring" though, since we've established that Feinstein didn't have to sell the two companies he was President of because they are indeed corporations. However, I do agree this takes more than 48 hours. That is why people yelling that they need more proof need to wait. It takes time to get all the legal documents in check. However, a board of directors vote to remove Feinstein from his postion takes all of a few minutes which is what has been done. So the ball is rolling and although all the legal paperwork is probably not in order yet, it is really just a formality.

 

In fact, no reasonable person

could believe that Feinstein has legitimately severed ties with either

company. The press releases produced by RF Video and Ring of Honor

have been utter hogwash designed at salvaging whatever fan loyalty

remains for those two companies.

 

I just quoted this because I love how people through out statements like this. No reasonable person could believe this? Why? Obviously not due to the "facts" he presented above, because those are all overflowing with ignorance to how the business world operates.

 

I really wish people would make sure they are right instead of going off what they think before writing articles like this and presenting them as fact.

[syxx2001 0]

No one encouraged shit. RF wanted to meet with him and knew what the fuck he was getting into and knew what he was going to do. The little boy begged him to come AFTER RF brought up the idea of coming, AFTER RF asked if his sister would drop him off, AFTER a bunch of other bullshit.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I'm going to make my position clear...

 

until I see the word SOLD and proof of such a transaction...I maintain (as I've said for a couple days now) that he's still profiting off of it all.

 

I think we're owed that much given the circumstances.

 

I love RoH...but I'm not going to fish for excuses to keep supporting them through this until they step up and do the obvious, only thing they should be doing.

 

Damage Control?

 

They don't need damage control. They need proof that our dollar isn't going into his pocket.

[Michrome 0]

We'll see if Gabe comes through on his promise to Mike to provide legal documents. I think the "corporate lawyers" thing in the press release was a way of saying the transaction isn't finished yet.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Once it's all finished I see no reason not to put all this crap away and let the pervert sit in the corner.

 

It's only connected to RoH for as long as it takes for them to get him all the way out.

 

After that...it goes back to being about the wrestling...which for the first time...it's not right now.

[PsychoDriver 0]

http://www.prowrestlingradio.com/diary.html

 

That is Eric Guargilo's (sp?) journal. I think this is worth reading by everyone.

Very good read, makes you hate that lowlife RF even more.

[Guest OSIcon]

until I see the word SOLD and proof of such a transaction...I maintain (as I've said for a couple days now) that he's still profiting off of it all.

 

A lot of people share this sentiment. For you personally, what would be sufficient proof? I only ask because I get the feeling that some people's idea of sufficient proof is fairly unreasonable (not saying your's is because I don't know what your idea is yet). Again, the corporation wouldn't be sold because that's not how it works, but still proof of the fact that Feinstein has been disolved from the company. If you are looking for the word "Sold" you are going to be disappointed because a corporation does not need to be sold in order to remove a CEO with ownership stake in the corporation. Would a letter from their corporate attorney be enough? Some sort of other noterized letter? Or anything else?

 

Just curious. I don't think asking for additional prove is necesarily asking for too much. However, some types of prove people are asking for just way out there and unreasonable.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I'm easy. I can live with (as mentioned in one of those articles) a statement that he will not make a dime off of future business. That's enough for me...because if he IS going to make money...I don't think they'd lie about it...because they'd surely be found out.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I should add that this is enough for me...because if they did lie and got caught...it would do far more damage (IMO) than this is going to do.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I have to run out now...but I also want to say this.

 

I think the one guy went too far in blaming RoH for the way they've handled all this.

 

IMO, the only thing RoH has really dropped the ball on is not fully understanding what it is the fans need to hear from them. It's less about making sure everyone knows he's not in a position of power anymore, and more about reassuring everyone that when they buy a ticket, that the money goes to the worker, staff, show costs and future business of the company...and not into the hands of RF.

[Michrome 0]

Via PWI hotline...

 

CSC are off 3/13 convention, but will still get paid.

 

The story with Loc's daughter and Special K may be completely scrapped.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Via conversations with people who know a lot...

 

The transaction of Rob being out is not done yet, and they expect to be able to show the legal papers in about a week, or maybe more.

 

Edit: By done I mean finished, to clarify.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Via PWI hotline...

 

CSC are off 3/13 convention, but will still get paid.

 

The story with Loc's daughter and Special K may be completely scrapped.

 

Via conversations with people who know a lot...

Someone want to bring me up to speed? I don't keep up and don't know what all this means.

[Michrome 0]

CSC is christopher street connection, a tag team that does a gay gimmick. They are not regulars, but were brought in for the convention.

 

The story with Devito's daughter (i think it's devito, dont wanna rewatch tape) is that she has taken up the lifestyle of Special K (Drugs, orgies, raves, etc) and that Devito is taking out his anger about that on her. Apparently they cut some really good promos on the 2/14 tape for it, but they may now be scrapped because of the daughter thing.

 

Hope this helps.

[Guest TDinDC1112]

ROH might be forced to go back to focusing 100% on in-ring wrestling now, which actually might make a lot of people happy. I had heard anyway that RF was the drive behind more of the sports entertainment stuff, where as Gabe is all about the in-ring.

[syxx2001 0]

I see no reason to ditch the sports entertainment stuff. If you can have angles and skits and still give solid wrestling, whats the problem. WCW did it, TNA did it.

[Guest OSIcon]

Michael K. Johnson's Interview with Gabe:

 

http://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=999&p=1

 

This should help a lot of people feel better about supporting ROH (of course, some people will most likely never be convinced). Gabe must say 50 times over the course of the 4 page interview that Feinstein will not get any money at all from ROH or RF Video (which he confirms will have a name change) and that he is not involved with either company at all. He makes that point as many times as one person can.

 

Also of note is that he says they should have paper work that will act as the written proof some of have been clammoring for within the next week.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

I see no reason to ditch the sports entertainment stuff. If you can have angles and skits and still give solid wrestling, whats the problem. WCW did it, TNA did it.

Wasn't RoH suppose to be about the wrestling and not "Sports Entertainment"? Isn't that why the crowd booed Jeff Hardy out of the promotion? Because he was a lazy hack by then and was doing a lame gimmick he did, when the people in RoH were struggling and putting on great matches?

[LucharesuFan619 0]

I read Gargiulo's entire piece and I agree with a lot of it...most of it...but the last few paragraphs I really need to discuss. I don't know if Eric realizes that Perverted-Justice.com has no association with the government. Therefore, Meltzer has every right to cite the FACT that nobody has gone to jail thanks to them. He nor everyone else should be treating it as if RF was caught by the police, because he was NOT. Was he caught red handed? Yes. Are you innocent until proven guilty formally under the law in the US, or by a group of citizens in an informal sting operation? It's definitely not the latter...

 

As I said, I agree with virtually all of the article until he brought in the names of a lot of Internet reporters, some of whom I think he was too easy on and some of whom I think he was too hard on. Eric Gargiulo is not the most professional man out there...far from it. For him to be shitting on Eric Walker, who it's no secret I do not like, is - nonetheless - hypocritical, to say the least. Gargiulo has made unwarranted accusations toward Rob Black in his commentary, taken unwarranted cheapshots toward both Black and XPW management in his commentary, has done the same with Gabriel Knight of DCW and HWA, and has - ironically - plugged ROH in his commentary, during CZW's agreement with them.

 

Furthermore, in his online columns, he's taken unwarranted cheapshots at GQ Money, Shane Douglas, Gabe Sapolsky, and others. You need to realize this - Gargiulo isn't like RF, because he hasn't sunk to screwing people over. But he is trying to portray himself as someone who he's not - completely professional. Ripping on other people isn't professional, especially when it's unwarranted. At least his ripping on RF is warranted. Also Gargiulo ripping on Eric Walker is, quite frankly, hypocritical.

 

Also - his point about many sites waiting until the newscast aired to report the matter is mis-thought-out. Mike Johnson posted the news on his site at the same time as Dave Meltzer on the Observer, Keller on the Torch, etc. He didn't just go out there and post it right away, before the newscast aired, so Gargiulo citing Johnson - and also Keller, because Keller did the EXACT same thing (posting it when the newscast aired, not really before) - as being one of the few honorable reporters in the matter is really shitty logic, and very hypocritical. MKJ is no better than Meltzer, and quite honestly, worse, according to Gargiulo's own logic (see last paragraph).

 

That said - I think Gargiulo's word needs to be taken for what it is, and I mean that in a way you may not first think I mean it in. He's known RF since 7 or whatever, so he's known him a shitload longer than most people. I take his word over a lot of other people's words, who've only met RF in the last decade. He did a very good job of revealing the real RF - the scumbag one - but at the same time, I can't let it pass by that some of the logic he used was quite, well, hypocritical. I do agree with about 80-90% of what he said, though.

 

And also, I wonder if Gargiulo stands by what he says, regarding MKJ's honorableness. He's sticking up for ROH with that latest interview that was posted. I'm not saying I agree with the interview or I don't. I'm saying I think his analysis of MKJ's reporting is severely misguided.