OAO Raw Analysis Thread

[Mole 0]

Orton's built.

 

It appeared to me that his torso is dwarfed by Ric Flair's.

He looks pretty built to me.

 

Is this Vince? You know, little guys can be main eventers too.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Orton sufferes from Edge Syndrome - he's tall but doesn't have a lot of muscle mass so it makes him look lanky. The boy needs to seriously roid up to get his big push to the top.

[Guest Ray]

The main event was superb. The rest....bleh. I can't even remember the rest of the show. But the main event...SUPERB.

Thank You. Ray is the other person I was thinking of who is VERY-VERY harsh with ratings for WWE

 

I wouldn't call it * but I wouldn't call it "superb" either. It was the typical WWE Main Event Multi-tag, formula and all. The difference was a hot crowd.

It was craploads of fun. I enjoyed this match more than I've enjoyed anything in a while. The crowd is a key part of any match. I'm bothered when people act as if the crowd is irrelevant.

 

Orton sufferes from Edge Syndrome - he's tall but doesn't have a lot of muscle mass so it makes him look lanky. The boy needs to seriously roid up to get his big push to the top.

What? As if having huge muscles will make him better? Orton has a near-perfect body. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, as they say.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

I gave the main event around ***. People (Drury37) calling it MOTYC makes me laugh. Even Scott Keith blew his load with ****. Seriosuly, the first half was VERY hot and just had me marking out, but the commercial break killed the flow and the next 5 or so minutes seemed to drag.

[JoeDirt 0]

I gave the main event around ***. People (Drury37) calling it MOTYC makes me laugh. Even Scott Keith blew his load with ****. Seriosuly, the first half was VERY hot and just had me marking out, but the commercial break killed the flow and the next 5 or so minutes seemed to drag.

Yeah, I think ***1/4 or so is fair. It was a pretty fun match, but saying ****+ is a little overboard.

[JoeDirt 0]

Orton sufferes from Edge Syndrome - he's tall but doesn't have a lot of muscle mass so it makes him look lanky. The boy needs to seriously roid up to get his big push to the top.

And roid he has.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Good Show. I may have missed somethings because I had to watch the replay due to hockey games on TSN and they normally cut about 10 minutes out of the replay.

 

Eugene was just fine and seemed to be over with the crowd. I think I missed something with La Resistance I think. Eugene calling Trish a Slut was pretty funny.

 

Jericho's achyrnom's were fucking classic. I was glad I didn't have to listen to Lita cut a promo as well and the Jericho-Christian seems to be coming to a head nicely.

 

The only really low points were the La Resistance Match, and the Coach segment. If that's the only way Al's going to get on my tv than forget about it.

 

The main event was very enjoyable and I continue to be a mark for Flair. He's nowhere near as good as he was even 2 years ago but the man works a crowd like no one can. I'm finding myself enjoying HBK a good bit too despite the fact that I've not been a fan since he "lost his smile".

 

I'd give Raw a 6.5/10.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Alright, we are trying something new out here. Please post all your post-show reactions here. The OAO Raw Thread will only be used by those who are watching the show for play-by-play reactions, sort of speak. For now on, the OAO Raw threads will be closed after the Western airing.

 

So please, all reactions/comments/analysis goes here. Thank you.

I'd like to voice my lack of support for this idea.

 

I recognize that this board, much like the WWE itself it seems, is very biased to the east coast, but as a Californian who had to watch Raw from 9-11 Pacific for the first time in years tonight (DirecTV usually lets me watch it with the majority of you folks, but cable only starts Raw one hour after it's ended) I was kind of suprised to come here to give my impressions and read the others and find the thread locked, unable to reply to other people's comments. Since I'm going to be moving into a new house with cable hookup in a matter of weeks, I'll be seeing this on a regular basis.

 

The other issue is that the only thing this does is spread the same posting through two threads instead of one. Only a few people on this board feel the need to summarize their thoughts into an analysis post. If you must lock the OAO threads for some reason, at least wait until the next morning.

 

On the sunny side, this might not be a bad idea for PPVs, though, because a lot of people often have "Should I order the replay?" fever and just want to know if the show was good or bad without having to read everything.

[Guest Nanks]

Seems to me that Eugene should've gone mental when Conway tore up his bunny. Doesn't paint him as much of a loose cannon if he's just gonna sit there and cry. He should've rushed Conway and had Regal restrain him before he started to cry.

[haVoc 0]

I think some of you would enjoy the shows a bit more if you weren't on the Internet at the same time.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

Don't worry... one day, someone will do something to Eugene.... and he'll be a MENTAL PATIENT EN FUEGO~!

 

I'm really digging Eugene as well. The crowd reacted well when his bunny got torn up. My sister was actually about to cry when she saw that. I swear. It worked for the marks...

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

::takes credit for this idea::

At the risk of sounding arrogant, I pitched the basic premise for this idea to Dr. Tom last week, except I suggested the RAW thread be deleted once the show was over since it was such a vast wasteland of nothing and a huge drain on the bandwidth of the place. I would hardly call this idea being put to use any type of abuse of power. Anyone who says so is just being anti-establishment for the sake of it.

::bashes Bruiser over the head w/ the credit::

 

There's your credit, bitch

[nl5xsk1 0]

One question, one comment ...

 

People keep saying "why get rid of Kanyon and then bring back Christopher?" Guys, BC was squashed in just a few minutes, would you be that much happier having Kanyon in that role? If the best that they would have done with him is have him count the lights in a squash match, then maybe it's a good thing that he's gone.

 

And after seeing Eugene for the first time last night, I thought he was closer to "Norman the Lunatic" than "Corky from Life Goes On." Is it a good, long-lasting gimmick? No But is it offensive? No, not nearly as bad as I'd thought it would be after reading everyone's reactions on the net.

[humongous2002 0]

RAW was ok,the ME was decent but overrated by some people.

The rest of the show and Jerry's kid sucked.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

People keep saying "why get rid of Kanyon and then bring back Christopher?" Guys, BC was squashed in just a few minutes, would you be that much happier having Kanyon in that role? If the best that they would have done with him is have him count the lights in a squash match, then maybe it's a good thing that he's gone.

Because Christopher is probably going to stick around. The squash by Kane was probably a "you bashed us, now don't get out of line now that we've brought you back" message. I could live w/ Kanyon getting squashed by Kane if it meant he'd be used as a midcarder.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

By the way, is Orton facing Foley or Cactus Jack? JR seems to have no clue, and even though Foley hammed it up in that promo last week, he didn't actually pull out the shirt.

At least Foley is not wearing the black sweatpants anymore. Foley needs to wear the Mankind mask with a Cactus Jack T-shirt.

...and the Dude love bandanna and tights. (/ChrisMWaters mode)

Nah...Orton should have come out dressed as Dude to mock Foley/Cactus

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It was craploads of fun. I enjoyed this match more than I've enjoyed anything in a while.

 

Superb: "Of unusually high quality; excellent". Are you willing to say that a match that had repetitive spots (could there BE any more chops!?), no actual, tangible, story or creative throughline other than "they don't like each other", and followed a formula that the WWE has used repeatedly. It was a random collection of spots up until the finishing sequence (which it clearly was).

 

Have fun all you want, but it wasn't a superb match by any stretch of the imagination.

 

The crowd is a key part of any match. I'm bothered when people act as if the crowd is irrelevant.

 

Man, if THAT bothers you...

 

If there was no crowd, the match would have suffered in many peoples eyes. Say I turned the sound way down and was listening to music, the effect wouldn't have been the same. If the crowd was in, say, Pittsberg, where the crowd wouldn't be as "hot", the match would have suffered. Yet, it is still the same match. The crowd can be affected by a match, this is true, and they do play a role. But it's limited. In the end, you don't rate the crowd, you rate the match. The match is the only thing the wrestlers really can control.

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

Does anyone else think the graphic of Jericho on the main page of wwe.com is hilarious? It's like his head on some other body.

 

What the hell is that?

[Tawren 0]

Can you explain to everyone what you rate a match on? In-ring quality? Crowd reaction? Spots? Because every match we say is ***-***** you jump on everyone's throat with a rating that would make even Dames (a harsh reviewer) blush.

I've had 2 "controversial" ratings I can think of...this and the WMXX 3 way. I wouldn't call that jumping down throats

 

I call the 8 man * because it had no story in it and was the basic hot tag formula at points mixed in with random tags. Crowd was great, but even if this had the Dallas 2000 crowd I wouldn't call it great.

[Guest Ray]

Superb: "Of unusually high quality; excellent". Are you willing to say that a match that had repetitive spots (could there BE any more chops!?), no actual, tangible, story or creative throughline other than "they don't like each other", and followed a formula that the WWE has used repeatedly. It was a random collection of spots up until the finishing sequence (which it clearly was).

 

Have fun all you want, but it wasn't a superb match by any stretch of the imagination.

Craploads of fun = superb. I don't care how many chops they do. "They hate each other" is a fine story. Formula? So what. The amount of enjoyment it produced in me > any formulaic notions someone else finds.

 

If there was no crowd, the match would have suffered in many peoples eyes. Say I turned the sound way down and was listening to music, the effect wouldn't have been the same. If the crowd was in, say, Pittsberg, where the crowd wouldn't be as "hot", the match would have suffered. Yet, it is still the same match. The crowd can be affected by a match, this is true, and they do play a role. But it's limited. In the end, you don't rate the crowd, you rate the match. The match is the only thing the wrestlers really can control.

Wrestling isn't just about the moves done in the ring. It's a much larger experience. The crowd is a vital element. Match and crowd aren't seperate things. I rate them together, as one experience. To ignore the crowd- or the amount of fun one has watching the match- is INSANE.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Ok, so if you were watching a match that had a super hot crowd while getting your foot chopped off, the match would - in your eyes - suck because of the experience you had (which was completely independant of the match itself) wasn't "fun". Right? Who needs objectivity?

[Guest Ray]

Ok, so if you were watching a match that had a super hot crowd while getting your foot chopped off, the match would - in your eyes - suck because of the experience you had (which was completely independant of the match itself) wasn't "fun".

That's a ridiculously stupid analogy.

 

Who needs objectivity?

Who needs bitchy smarks who base their internet existance around finding things to bitch about?

 

Oh no! Too many chops! Minus 10 stars!

 

Oh no! Story doesn't reach Shakespearean levels! Minus 400 stars!

 

Oh no! A formula! Minus a billion stars!

[Michrome 0]

How can you say it was a stupid analogy? It's no stupider than judging the workers in a match based on a factor they can't control. To an extent they can try to get a crowd into a match, which they did last night, but past that a match shouldn't be rated higher because of its geographical location. If WWE ran a show in a country for the first time ever, and the first match was Nathan Jones vs. Albert, and it was the biggest embarrasment in years, the crowd would probably still eat it up because they haven't seen WWE before. Does their match deserve a high rating for this? Chicago is a hot town. They are hot for matches. They would have been even hotter had it been better. I guess it all depends on frame of reference, but after getting done with 3 long comp tapes of Jumbo 6-mans from 90/91/92, last night's tag was so unadavanced and average to me that I wouldn't rate it high at all.

[Guest Ray]

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

That's a ridiculously stupid analogy.

 

I hope you weren't bothered by it...

 

Enjoyment doesn't always equal quality; there are external factors influencing enjoyment that are not determined by the match itself; if you no longer enjoy a match after multiple viewings, and the match hasn't changed, what has? blah blah blah blah blah, it's a silly criteria in judging a match which was my point which you ignored.

 

Who needs bitchy smarks who base their internet existance around finding things to bitch about?

 

So what you're saying is by this response (or lack thereof) "I don't need objectivity". Ok, that's all you needed to say. That's cool. Keep judging matches by emotional reaction, that's fine. Just don't make statements like "superb" when you can't back it up by anything but "oooh it was fun!".

 

Oh no! Too many chops! Minus 10 stars!

 

Oh no! Story doesn't reach Shakespearean levels! Minus 400 stars!

 

Oh no! A formula! Minus a billion stars!

 

Oh no! Actual thought! Minus a billion brain cells!

[Guest Ray]

Enjoyment doesn't always equal quality

Yeah it does.

 

So what you're saying is by this response (or lack thereof) "I don't need objectivity".

No, I don't need guys who are just looking for something to complain about.

 

Ok, that's all you needed to say. That's cool. Keep judging matches by emotional reaction, that's fine.

Yeah, I will. Thank you. It's better than counting chops...

 

Just don't make statements like "superb" when you can't back it up by anything but "oooh it was fun!".

I'll say whatever I want to say. Fun = superb, says Ray. This match, was fun. I'm not going to rate it lower because someone else found a "flaw" in it.

 

Oh no! Actual thought! Minus a billion brain cells!

Oh no! It's Ravishing Rick Coey!

[chaosrage 0]

Wrestling isn't just about the moves done in the ring. It's a much larger experience. The crowd is a vital element. Match and crowd aren't seperate things. I rate them together, as one experience. To ignore the crowd- or the amount of fun one has watching the match- is INSANE.

Wait a minute, didn't you bitch at me when I said the same exact thing a couple of months ago? What did you do with the real Ray and why did you steal his name, you bastard?

[Bruiser Chong 0]

::takes credit for this idea::

At the risk of sounding arrogant, I pitched the basic premise for this idea to Dr. Tom last week, except I suggested the RAW thread be deleted once the show was over since it was such a vast wasteland of nothing and a huge drain on the bandwidth of the place.

Because whatever the great and mighty Bruiser Chong doesn't like to read should be DELETED!

Nah, I just figured that since there's rarely anything meaningful found in those threads (even most of the people who post in them will admit it), there's really no purpose for them to be retained since they do take up a lot of bandwidth. I'm not alone in thinking that if it's taking up bandwidth while providing no real lasting quality, it shouldn't be kept. But thanks for playing.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

What worked -

 

- The opening promo from Foley was good. The Mel Gibson stuff has to go, but it's a nice sell for the Foley/Orton match at Backlash.

 

- HHH's pre-taped segment was great. Got right to the point, and didn't drag.

 

- GREAT hot Southern-style tag in the ME, this kind of thing makes me want to buy Backlash. So guess what, WWE? I will.

 

- The Shelton/Flair bits were nice. They have a PLAN for this guy and that's a great sign.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Ok, so if you were watching a match that had a super hot crowd while getting your foot chopped off, the match would - in your eyes - suck because of the experience you had (which was completely independant of the match itself) wasn't "fun".  Right?  Who needs objectivity?

Hopefully, you'd have more important things to worry about than how good the wrestling match was. That's a retarded analogy, you would have been better off with something like "Your girlfriend breaking up with you" which is still stupid but not to insane levels.

 

You cannot seperate the crowd from a match. It is part of the experience of watching pro wrestling. The crowd is PART of the match, it effects the workers. What happens to you is not. Period.