Some interesting Survivor Series 1997 stuff

[Vern Gagne 0]

Why is everyone afraid of Mean Ole Mark?  Is he legit tough, or just big and scary?

Back then, it was probably a bit of both.

He probably didn't have to be that tough, dealing Shawn Micheals.

[Guest MikeSC]

He didn't job to Benoit though, he just didn't win the title. I acknowledged the job to Kurt already, but I believe that was his one job to give so that he can say that he does job to people.

He tapped out at Backlash.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

A: If I was Shawn, I wouldnt have jobbed to Hart first. I wouldnt trust him to give me the job back. He is leaving, why would he bother? Hart is definatly getting painted as an angel here when it surely does not deserve it. Both guys had major heat with each other and neither guy should have trusted either guy to put the other guy over. That just would make no sense.

 

B: Why was that Euro match booked anyways?  Everyone and thier dog should have known that Shawn wouldnt job to DBS. He was getting a World Title shot in 6 weeks at a major PPV, why should he lose to a midcarder who wasn't the third guy in his own stable. If they wanted Bulldog to look strong in England, give him someone else, Shawn shoudl never do that job.

A: Bret might not be a saint, but he's a lot more trustworthy than Shawn was at that time. As for why he'd do the job in return, it would be because he'd be professional about it. All he asked was that Shawn was professional first.

If Bret agreed to drop the belt before SSeries as asked, it wouldn't have been an issue.

-=Mike

[Guest LooneyTune]

"Shawn Michaels shouldn't be jobbing to Davey Boy Smith."

 

PROOF that Vince does listen to the internet fans, except instead of "Shawn Michaels" it's "Triple H" and DBS is "Everyone not named Shawn Michaels."

 

I'm disgusted by that comment... a main eventers job is to help elevate other people or draw money with them. Shawn couldn't draw a dime, but he was at least over enough to put people over without losing heat, and he couldn't even do that.

[4hartthreat 0]

If Bret agreed to drop the belt before SSeries as asked, it wouldn't have been an issue.

-=Mike

I'm pretty sure Bret was never asked to drop the title before Survivor Series. And why would he have been? The ppv was in Canada, Vince would have been nuts to go into that show without Bret as champion.

 

As for the guy that said "look at how bitter Bret has become" as an example to show that Bret would have been unprofessional with Shawn, that's just bs. Bret didn't become the "bitter old man" that he is now until AFTER Series and Owen's death. Look up any info on Bret before Series and it will say that he was one of the better guys in the locker room and was well liked by almost everyone and was known for standing up for the young guys when it was necessary(like refusing to beat Rock clean when he felt that would hurt him). Bret would have jobbed when the time came, and he would even have done it for Shawn. Bret, for ONCE, just wanted something done his way. And it made sense from a booking standpoint. Going into Series, DX and Shawn had gotten the better of Bret and the Hart Foundation and insulted and disrespected Canada, going as far as wiping his ass and picking his nose with the Canadian flag. Bret wanted Shawn to finally do a job he had avoided for over a year, and was only getting a DQ at that.

 

As for Shawn, he was and probably still is a dick.

[Guest MikeSC]

If Bret agreed to drop the belt before SSeries as asked, it wouldn't have been an issue.

      -=Mike

I'm pretty sure Bret was never asked to drop the title before Survivor Series. And why would he have been? The ppv was in Canada, Vince would have been nuts to go into that show without Bret as champion.

He was. He said he wanted the match at SSeries to be a World Title match to make it more important.

As for the guy that said "look at how bitter Bret has become" as an example to show that Bret would have been unprofessional with Shawn, that's just bs. Bret didn't become the "bitter old man" that he is now until AFTER Series and Owen's death. Look up any info on Bret before Series and it will say that he was one of the better guys in the locker room and was well liked by almost everyone and was known for standing up for the young guys when it was necessary(like refusing to beat Rock clean when he felt that would hurt him). Bret would have jobbed when the time came, and he would even have done it for Shawn.

It's just odd that the ONLY time Bret jobbed to Shawn was, easily, the worst match the two ever had (WM XII). I'm sure it's a total coincidence for the uber-professional Hart to, well, dog it in a match where he jobbed to somebody he openly disliked.

Bret, for ONCE, just wanted something done his way. And it made sense from a booking standpoint. Going into Series, DX and Shawn had gotten the better of Bret and the Hart Foundation and insulted and disrespected Canada, going as far as wiping his ass and picking his nose with the Canadian flag. Bret wanted Shawn to finally do a job he had avoided for over a year, and was only getting a DQ at that.

 

As for Shawn, he was and probably still is a dick.

And Bret is delusional. Has been for years.

-=Mike

[CanadianChick 0]

It's just odd that the ONLY time Bret jobbed to Shawn was, easily, the worst match the two ever had (WM XII). I'm sure it's a total coincidence for the uber-professional Hart to, well, dog it in a match where he jobbed to somebody he openly disliked.

To be fair, both Shawn and Bret consider that one of their best matches. While a lot of people, me included, think it isn't very good, both the participants in the match do.

[Guest JMA]

"He wasn't mad for Bret Hart, well, he was pretty mad about that, but it was Blade, Bret's 12-year-old son, that he was a lot madder about. He talked about how he was crying hysterically because of what they did, for real, to his father. He said you'd have to see it to understand how miserable certain people really were as human beings, to allow the son to be in the show (Vince allowed it, I'd guess it was Bret's idea but he also thought he was winning for Canada via DQ, Blade carried the Canadian flag) knowing what they were planning on doing. At that point, I think it's more than Julie Hart's business. Even without that story, it still is."

Damn, that must have been horrible to see. I have to wonder what Blade Hart thinks about WWE now that he's an adult.

 

In any case, are Bret and Taker good friends or something? Taker has always seemed to have a lot of respect for Bret and vice-versa.

[Betty Houle 0]

It's just odd that the ONLY time Bret jobbed to Shawn was, easily, the worst match the two ever had (WM XII). I'm sure it's a total coincidence for the uber-professional Hart to, well, dog it in a match where he jobbed to somebody he openly disliked.

That is hardly "easily the worst match the two ever had." Even if you're discounting house show matches, it's not their worst big match. It's quite good in the eyes of many (including them and me).

 

And Bret only kind of disliked Michaels at this point. It was well before he really disliked him.

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

If Bret agreed to drop the belt before SSeries as asked, it wouldn't have been an issue.

      -=Mike

I'm pretty sure Bret was never asked to drop the title before Survivor Series. And why would he have been? The ppv was in Canada, Vince would have been nuts to go into that show without Bret as champion.

He was. He said he wanted the match at SSeries to be a World Title match to make it more important.

No Bret offered to drop the title to Vader, Taker, Austin or, even, Brooklyn Brawler on any house show prior to Montreal. Vince was the one who didn't want to lose the world title main event for Survivor Series.

[Shanghai Kid 0]

Ah well, I still like Shawn Micheals.

 

He may be a dick, but as long as he puts on good matches I have no problem with him currently. I CAN believe that he has changed, because I don't have any evidence to the contrary. Are their reports coming out that Shawn is some huge backstage cancer right now? That his peers hate him?

 

I know that Austin and Shawn are better friends now, I think he said it in his book that he didn't care for Shawn back in the 90's but this time around he's become cool with him.

 

Shawn's also said that he has no interest in getting the World Title again, he's perfectly content with his current role on Raw. So I'll just enjoy the guy putting on good matches.

[iggymcfly 0]

How are they going to advertise a PPV all month, and then tell everybody the title's not on the line when the show starts. From Vince's perspective, it would be a lot more important to make sure he doesn't alienate his remaining fans at a major PPV, than it is that he keep Bret happy on his way to WCW.

[Jericholic82 0]

As for all those people worried about Kurt returning the job to Shawn in the near future, I don't think that's completely possible.

 

Yeah, Shawn could win a rematch... Hell, he could win every match against Angle from now until eternity, but it really doesn't matter- the first time they met was at Wrestlemania... Angle won... CLEANLY. That's the one people will remember.

 

Has Jericho pinned Shawn Michaels in the last two years? Honestly, I have no idea. Why? Because their one time in the ring I'll always remember is WMXIX. Jericho didn't go over in the big match on the big stage. No amount of "return jobs" after that ever equal the initial encounter.

Jericho only pinned Shawn once in a raw rematch at the staples center in July 2003, so you make alot of sense there. However as I sated in other threads, Jericho would stil be a midcarder right now regardless of whether he beat shawn at mania 19, so it doesn't really bother me anymore.

 

And Vince shouldve just booked someone else against bulldog in the uk. He could have fed Vader to Bulldog. Hell better Yet The Patriot.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Shawn says he has changed, and I will believe unless I see something to suggest otherwise. It doesn't excuse his past behaviour. He did do those things, and that's that, but it doesn't affect what he does in the future.

[Guest MikeSC]

It's just odd that the ONLY time Bret jobbed to Shawn was, easily, the worst match the two ever had (WM XII). I'm sure it's a total coincidence for the uber-professional Hart to, well, dog it in a match where he jobbed to somebody he openly disliked.

That is hardly "easily the worst match the two ever had." Even if you're discounting house show matches, it's not their worst big match. It's quite good in the eyes of many (including them and me).

 

And Bret only kind of disliked Michaels at this point. It was well before he really disliked him.

I have seen plenty of their house matches and their prior PPV encounter at SSeries '92.

 

This match stunk.

-=Mike

[Precious Roy 0]

Jericho only pinned Shawn once in a raw rematch at the staples center in July 2003, so you make alot of sense there. However as I sated in other threads, Jericho would stil be a midcarder right now regardless of whether he beat shawn at mania 19, so it doesn't really bother me anymore.

He actually got him to tap to the Walls of Jericho, but it was after interference from.........someone, I forget who......

[4hartthreat 0]

I have seen plenty of their house matches and their prior PPV encounter at SSeries '92.

 

This match stunk.

-=Mike

It doesn't matter what you think. Both Bret and Shawn love the match, and about the only good things the two have to say about each other is how great a match they had with each other at WM12. So trying to use the match as an example of Bret not being a professional because he "dogged" it doesn't hold water. If Shawn has nothing bad to say about Bret's performance in the match, and believe me if he thought there was something that could be said he would, who are you to say Bret didn't perform to the best of his ability?

 

Let me make clear that I'm not saying that you can't say it's a bad match. I'd disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion. I'm saying if both Bret and his opponent in the match think that it is one of their best matches, and not just with each other, then you can't really accuse Bret of not giving his all because Shawn wouldn't talk so highly of the match, or at least would let it be known that he thinks Bret was trying to hurt him by underperforming and the match was great despite Bret trying to undermine it.

[Guest Rrrsh]

without viewing that political aspects of it, someone like Shawn should not job to someone like Bulldog, no matter where it is.

 

You can't be serious....

Shawn was in the biggest fued of the company (Taker), was getting a World title shot in 6 weeks at a major PPV and was a leader in a major stable.

 

Bulldog was a midcarder, tagging with Owen vs other midcard tag teams and was viewed as the third guy in his stable.

 

 

I am dead serious.

And it would have hurt him to lose to Bulldog, with homefield advantage, due to Hart Foundation interference? He needed the European Title more than Bulldog? Please....

 

I don't even have a problem with him going over in that match if that's what the booker wants and it's done for a legit reason, but the way it happened was just wrong, especially with Bulldog being the top draw in England and dedicating the match to his sister and everything, and being led to believe he was going over. It also led to HBK just giving the belt to HHH after he won the WHT because so little forethought had been involved, which pretty much killed it as a meaningful title.

 

And as for your general logic that "guys like Shawn" shouldn't lose to "guys like Bulldog," it's that kind of attitude that prevents anyone from getting over and makes for boring, paint by numbers programs, and it's the kind of attitude that has plagued the WWE for years. HBK would lose nothing putting over Bulldog. Bulldog had been in numerous PPV main events, losing narrowly to both HBK and Bret, and Bret Hart, an equal of Shawn Michaels, put him over in the main event of SummerSlam 92. Is it THAT much of a stretch to think he could get a 3 count on Michaels?!?! If a guy like Davey Boy can NEVER go over a guy like HBK, who the fuck can?

A: Yes, losing to a midcarder when your involved in the biggest fued of the company would definatly hurt him. The match shouldn't have been booked.

 

B. I never said he need the Euro belt.

 

C: Bulldog wasn't an up-and-comer that a Mian Eventer needed to put over. He was a failed Main Eventer that was stuck in the mid card. Massive diffrence

 

D: I didn't say that a Main Eventer should never lose to a mid-carder. I said that a Main Eventer in the biggest fued going shouldn't lose to a guy who had no future. Its all about what happeneing at the time with both guys, its not a general statement at all.

[Use Your Illusion 0]

Why is everyone afraid of Mean Ole Mark?  Is he legit tough, or just big and scary?

Back then, it was probably a bit of both.

And I'd imagine he still is. I'm sure there are guys in the locker room that could take him easy, however there isn't any that would dare go through with it.

 

And I'm with Kahran, Shawn has found God and changed his ways, so good for him. He obviously can't change the past, but he can influence how the future plays out. If he WANTED to still be an egotistical prick, he could be. His best friend runs the company and I'm pretty sure Shawn could powerplay his ass off if he wanted to. He doesn't though, and until he does I remain a believer in Shawn's change of heart.

[Use Your Illusion 0]

He didn't job to Benoit though, he just didn't win the title. I acknowledged the job to Kurt already, but I believe that was his one job to give so that he can say that he does job to people.

He tapped out at Backlash.

-=Mike

IN CANADA

[Betty Houle 0]

How are they going to advertise a PPV all month, and then tell everybody the title's not on the line when the show starts.

Hey, WCW did it with Starrcade 96. Actually, I'm not sure when they ever told people that match was non-title so never mind.

[Betty Houle 0]

It's just odd that the ONLY time Bret jobbed to Shawn was, easily, the worst match the two ever had (WM XII). I'm sure it's a total coincidence for the uber-professional Hart to, well, dog it in a match where he jobbed to somebody he openly disliked.

That is hardly "easily the worst match the two ever had." Even if you're discounting house show matches, it's not their worst big match. It's quite good in the eyes of many (including them and me).

 

And Bret only kind of disliked Michaels at this point. It was well before he really disliked him.

I have seen plenty of their house matches and their prior PPV encounter at SSeries '92.

 

This match stunk.

-=Mike

I've seen matches of theirs that were worse.

 

The Iron Man match is great in all actuality.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Why is everyone afraid of Mean Ole Mark?  Is he legit tough, or just big and scary?

Back then, it was probably a bit of both.

And I'd imagine he still is. I'm sure there are guys in the locker room that could take him easy, however there isn't any that would dare go through with it.

 

And I'm with Kahran, Shawn has found God and changed his ways, so good for him. He obviously can't change the past, but he can influence how the future plays out. If he WANTED to still be an egotistical prick, he could be. His best friend runs the company and I'm pretty sure Shawn could powerplay his ass off if he wanted to. He doesn't though, and until he does I remain a believer in Shawn's change of heart.

If I ever need a character witness, I'll look you up.

[Jericholic82 0]

Jericho only pinned Shawn once in a raw rematch at the staples center in July 2003, so you make alot of sense there.  However as I sated in other threads, Jericho would stil be a midcarder right now regardless of whether he beat shawn at mania 19, so it doesn't really bother me anymore.

He actually got him to tap to the Walls of Jericho, but it was after interference from.........someone, I forget who......

really? how could i forget that? I have that match on tape ill go check it and find out. maybe christian interfered? or was it Orton maybe?

[iggymcfly 0]

I thought it was clean, but it was so long ago that I can't really remember. If there was interference, it was during the middle portion of the match, not directly leading to the finish.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

I was just reading this:

 

I want to address something here. There has been so much cynicism directed

at Michaels recently when it comes to doing jobs. Yes, Michaels was awful

about doing jobs when he was younger. He was terribly unprofessional. But

that period is long over. He did not need to lose to Daivari to “prove” he

will do fake jobs, ala Kevin Nash. He did not job to Angle because he is

expecting the favor returned in the near future. The fact is, he does jobs

all the time. Michaels’ PPV record since his return is 5-12-1. Unless you

want him to be completely jobbed out, I just don’t get what people want from

him. He is a legendary babyface, and as such he should be protected to some

degree. But he basically isn’t. He loses all the time, and it isn’t like he

is manipulating the company to keep himself on top. So give it a rest with

the bias against Michaels. You can’t punish someone forever.

 

It made me scratch my head because I knew this stuff about Shawn Michaels wasn't unfounded. Here's a look at that 5-12-1 record in detail.

 

August 25, 2002 - Summerslam: Shawn Michaels defeats Triple H in a "showstealer"..

 

1 - 0 (OK)

 

November 17, 2002 - Survivor Series: Michaels def HHH, RVD, Y2J, Booker & Kane in the Elimination Chamber to win the World title!

 

2 - 0 (OK)

 

December 15, 2002 - Armageddon: Triple H defeats Shawn Michaels in a three match series to win the WWE World Heavyweight title!

~~~HHH b HBK in a street fight :: HBK b HHH in a cage match :: HHH b HBK in a ladder match!

 

2 - 1 (He lost to Triple H, but OK)

 

January 19, 2003 - Royal Rumble: Michaels enters at #1, but is the first to be eliminated also, by none other than Chris Jericho!

 

2 - 2 (this is neither a job nor putting anyone over, but OK)

 

March 30, 2003 - Wrestlemania 19: Shawn Michaels defeats Chris Jericho in the sleeper hit match of the night..

~~~After the match, Jericho hugs Michaels and then turns on him with a low blow!

 

3 - 2 (he went over CLEAN in the blowoff)

 

April 27, 2003 - Backlash: Triple H/Chris Jericho/Ric Flair defeats Booker T/Shawn Michaels/Kevin Nash..

 

3 - 3 (this was a three-way tag AND Triple H pinned Kevin Nash to win this one, team, but what does that matter?)

 

June 15, 2003 - Bad Blood: Ric Flair defeated Shawn Michaels after Randy Orton interfered and whacked HBK with a chair!

 

3 - 4 (I guess you could be generous and say he put over Orton since Orton's chairshot cost him the match but I won't be...)

 

June 23, 2003 - RAW: Shawn Michaels & Kevin Nash defeated Ric Flair & Randy Orton..

(...because Shawn Michaels beat Flair clean with a superkick in the middle of the ring the next week)

 

August 24, 2003 - Summerslam: Triple H beats Goldberg, Randy Orton, Y2J, Shawn Michaels & Kevin Nash in an Elimination Chamber..

 

3 - 5 (Michaels got lost in the shuffle in this one because after Goldberg eliminated him, Triple H beat Goldberg, thus going over everybody Goldberg eliminated)

 

September 21, 2003 - Unforgiven: Randy Orton defeated Shawn Michaels after he used a forign object given to him by Ric Flair!

 

3 - 6 (This wasn't exactly a clean win but I guess it helped the Legend Killer gimmick somewhat...)

 

November 10, 2003 - RAW: Shawn Michales defeated Randy Orton in their second "Legend vs Legend Killer" match..

(...even though Orton would job clean to Sweet Chin Music in the rematch next month)

 

November 16, 2003 - Survivor Series: Team Bischoff defeated Team Austin officially ending Steve Austin's reign as co-GM of RAW..

~~~Shawn Michaels was the last man on Austin's team to be eliminated and put up and incredible battle!

 

3 - 7 (Batista caused his elimination here by interfering...)

 

December 14, 2003 - Armageddon: Shawn Michaels defeated Batista w/Ric Flair..

 

4 - 7 (...and then jobbed to Sweet Chin Music!)

 

January 25, 2004 - Royal Rumble: Triple H vs Shawn Michaels went to a DRAW in a "Last Man Standing Match (HHH retains World title!)

 

4 - 7 - 1 (Triple H is the only guy that he usually doesn't beat. Someone should look into this...)

 

 

March 14, 2004 - Wrestlemania XX: Chris Benoit beat Triple H & Shawn Michaels to capture the World Title by making HHH tap out!

 

4 - 8 - 1 (Benoit was buried leading all the way up to this match and Triple H was the one who did the job in this one.)

 

April 18, 2004 - Backlash: Chris Benoit defeated Triple H & Shawn Michaels in a 3-WAY to retain the World title!

 

4 - 9 -1 (This happened in Canada amidst YOU SCREWED BRET chants and was used to reference the Montreal Screwjob)

 

June 13, 2004 - Bad Blood: Triple H defeated Shawn Michaels in a vicious 50-minute Hell in a Cell match!

 

4 - 10 -1 (way to put over that rising new talent!)

 

 

September 12, 2004 - Unforgiven: Shawn Michaels defeated Kane w/Lita in a "No DQ" match..

 

5 - 10 - 1 (Nice CLEAN job here for Kane to end his new push)

 

October 19, 2004 - Taboo Tuesday: Shawn Michaels (39%) beat out Edge (33%) and Chris Benoit (28%) in the voting for a title shot..

~~~Triple H defeating Shawn Michaels, who put in an incredibly gutsy effort while injured, to retain the World title..

 

5 - 11 - 1 (Triple H is the greatest wrestler of ALL-TIME and HE BEATS EVERYONE)

 

January 30, 2005 - Royal Rumble: Edge defeated Shawn Michaels while holding the tights and feet on the ropes in their grudge match..

 

5 - 12 - 1 (This match was a result of Edge jobbing to Michaels in a match that Michaels didn't even compete in mmm hmm...)

 

~~~Shawn Michaels was eliminted from the Royal Rumble match by Kurt Angle, who came back and tossed Michaels!

 

5 - 13 - 1 (I'm being generous here and counting the Royal Rumbles as a job)

 

 

February 28, 2005 - RAW: Shawn Michaels defeated Edge in a grueling "Anything Goes Street Fight"..

(...so Edge's "push" ends with some nice Sweet Chin Music)

 

I truly believe he gets his job back from Angle some how, even though Angle is on another brand. I also believe that he's going to get his heat back from his job last night when Backlash comes around. I'll put money on it. Michaels hasn't elevated anybody since coming back to the WWE anybody who thinks he has is being REALLY nice. Why? I don't know.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Jericho only pinned Shawn once in a raw rematch at the staples center in July 2003, so you make alot of sense there.  However as I sated in other threads, Jericho would stil be a midcarder right now regardless of whether he beat shawn at mania 19, so it doesn't really bother me anymore.

He actually got him to tap to the Walls of Jericho, but it was after interference from.........someone, I forget who......

really? how could i forget that? I have that match on tape ill go check it and find out. maybe christian interfered? or was it Orton maybe?

Flair and Orton were interfering in the match.

[Precious Roy 0]

I have that match on tape too, and now I'm curious to see how exactly it ended, but I know the interference definitely set-up the Walls because at the time I was super pissed that Y2J was getting a tainted win.

 

Ok, typing the PBP as I watch it:

 

-Jericho ducks Chin Music, hits HBK with a field goal kick lowblow while Hebner is recoiling from the missed kick which came inches from his face, both men down

 

-Flair (already at ringside) approaches ring apron with chair, Hebner cuts him off, Flair slides chair to Jericho, charging Jericho eats SCM into the chair, both men down

 

-Flair pulls Hebner out of the ring and gets into shouting match with him, Orton runs in and nails Michaels with RKO onto the chair, Michaels is out

 

-Jericho crawls over for 2 count, applys Walls of Jericho, Michaels holds on for approx. 90 seconds before tapping

 

So, there you go, a good match and really good finishing sequence, but hardly did much for Jericho.....

[Some Guy 0]

As far as Survivor Series, if I was Vince I would have had a no contest finish at Survivor Series, put the title on Taker at the MSG show six days later, and tape that match to air on the RAW eight days after Survivor Series.

 

Vince didn't want to do it at MSG, because it would have cost something like $50,000, because of the fees involved in taping something at MSG.

So Vince was willing to spend $50K on a stupid angle where Nash hit HBK with a chair so Shawn could say that he was going to "kick his 7' ass" but not on a major title change? I suppose we can't count Nash/Backlund whichw as taped and later aired and took place at MSG.

 

I just don't see this as a true statement.

 

I've been making comps of 97 Raws and just got through the "Sunny Days" comment and the Raw where HBK and Bret fought. In commmentary Vince said that both men were sent home for "unprofessional behavior earlier in the night." Bret was not on the next Raw either. So, I think that Bret was punished for beating up Shawn.

 

I'm a huge fan of HBK and defend him when I think he's right but I think that Bret had every right to smack him around and every right to be pissed off that he got punished for it and Vince had to beg for Shawn to come back. That said, I think that Bret should have done the job for Shawn in Montreal. He was leaving (I know it wasn't his choice) and should have done the job. I understand why he refused to and empathize with him but he should have lost.

 

HTQ, what's the real reason that Vince wanted to get rid of Bret? I don't buy the "financial peril" line. Was he just trying to push the old guard out?

 

If I were Vince I would have kept Bret around, he showed in 97 that he was willing to show a fair amount of "Attitude" despite railing against it in promos and he was willing and very able to make stars. I read a recent interview with Austin where he put Bret over big and he should. Without Bret, Austin is not what he is today. It took WM 13 for him to really start getting over and Bret's willingness to let Austin get over on him on virtually every Raw there after. Bret lost to Austin by DQ at IYH Revenge of the Taker by DQ and then let Austin kick the shit out of him the next night, including the infamous Ambulance beatdown. Bret after having knee surgery came back the next week on Raw and within a week or two let Austin beat him up while he was in a wheelchair. He made Austin by giving him legit credibility as a tough motherfucker who could kick anybody's ass.

[Guest LooneyTune]

Going over all of Shawn Michaels' "jobs"... he sure has put over a lot of young, up-and-coming talent clean on PPV, hasn't he? Triple H, only a 7 time World Champion the first time he lost, Kurt Angle, to quote WWE, the most celebrated athlete in WWE history, and Benoit, who is a 19 year pro.