Along for the ride

[Just John 0]

Reading through the NBA Finals thread, I was intrigued by comments like "I can't believe so and so has a ring now." It got me thinking... Who are the most useless players to get a championship in any sport?

 

I nominate Darko and Mark Madsen.

[alfdogg 0]

Jack Haley.

[Guest Smues]

Albie Lopez. Bastard was one game short of being the first pitcher in forever to lose 20 games in a season in 2001, then gets a world series ring with the d-backs that same year.

[razazteca 0]

Glen Robinson.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Rob Johnson.

[The Czech Republic 0]

Who are the most useless players to get a championship in any sport?

 

The 1995 New Jersey Devils

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Scottie Pippen

[The Czech Republic 0]

I think I've just about had it with your Scottie Pippen hate.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Chill, it was a joke, hence the

[The Czech Republic 0]

Oh. It wasn't there when I first saw it

[Crimson Platypus 0]

Must have taken a second to load, I swear it was always there. While I think he's overrated he certainly contributed (defensively, occasionally scoring) to the rings he has.

 

Darko having more rings than Karl Malone, while hilarious, is also wrong in so many ways.

[Precious Roy 0]

 

You call that useless?

 

EDIT* After a little research, as far as the modern era goes there is no topping the uselessness of Fennis Dembo, 89 Pistons. The guy played ONE YEAR in the league and put a whopping two minutes and two points towards that ring. I guess he figured it was all downhill from there.

 

[Matt Young 0]

Randy Brown, Dickey Simpkins... shit, a lot of the players from the Bulls' second three-peat.

[LivingLegendGaryColeman 0]

I really hate hearing all the Darko bashing lately. It's been on TV and people have been calling him worthless in this thread. The boy hasn't had a chance to play. As much as I respect Larry Brown, he is the same man that did not play LeBron James, Dwayne Wade or Amare Stoudemire in the Olympics. That's why Team USA only got bronze... he doesn't play the young guys. One of the most veteran guys on this summer's team USA, therefore, most played, was Stephon Marbury. Darko needs a chance to play before there is anymore hate.

[Precious Roy 0]

You've gotta admit though, not getting any run has earned Darko one of the coolest nicknames in sports, "the human victory cigar"

[Rendclaw 0]

And it was obvious that he was a project, despite being taken with the #1 pick... we shall see what he has grown into in the next two or three years, if that long.

[Precious Roy 0]

#2 pick

 

And hindsight being 20/20, Dumars has to know he'd have been better off with Melo, Wade or Bosh, but he'll never admit it...

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

Glenn Robinson. I remember the tangent Stephen A. Smith went on about him during the Western Conference finals and it was hilarious.

[Steve J. Rogers 0]

#2 pick

 

And hindsight being 20/20, Dumars has to know he'd have been better off with Melo, Wade or Bosh, but he'll never admit it...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1) Darko did get on the cover of ESPN The Mag hyping him as being on the same level with LeBron and Melo, so ESPN bashing the pick is abit hypocritical

 

2) Brown at the time said it was going to be a long time before he'd pay dividends for the Pistons, so I think they have a "plan" for the Darko project

[Precious Roy 0]

If Darko ends up having a bigger impact in the league than Wade or Bosh I'll eat my shorts.

 

And ESPN talking heads are just that, I don't pay a whole lot of credence to what they say. Picking young foreign players is a huge gamble, the leagues over there are so different and none of the guys come over with NBA ready physiques. What works in a Euro league doesn't necessarly translate to the NBA. If you compare the success/failure ratio of 1st rd high school picks to 1st rd Euro picks the edge is going to the high school kids. Picking big euro guys with "5 tool" skills is a silly trend that hopefully passes.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

I'm sorry but Mike Richter. He never had great goaltending stats.

 

Does Marc Denis have one for Colorado?

 

The 1999 Dallas Stars.

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

Jose Canseco, 2000 Yankees.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

If Darko ends up having a bigger impact in the league than Wade or Bosh I'll eat my shorts.

 

And ESPN talking heads are just that, I don't pay a whole lot of credence to what they say.  Picking young foreign players is a huge gamble, the leagues over there are so different and none of the guys come over with NBA ready physiques.  What works in a Euro league doesn't necessarly translate to the NBA.  If you compare the success/failure ratio of 1st rd high school picks to 1st rd Euro picks the edge is going to the high school kids.  Picking big euro guys with "5 tool" skills is a silly trend that hopefully passes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I actually believe the opposite. You CAN properly translate the statistics and find good NBA caliber players in Europe. Tony Parker, Vladomir Radmanovich, Pau Gasol, Jiri Welsch, Hido Turkoglu, Andrei Kirilenko have all experienced success in the NBA. Europe does not produces as many stars, but many very capable players come from there. I think the trend of drafting high school players was more troubling. I'm on record saying 18 year old players should play if they are good enough. The problem is that rather than drafting a college player who has established a ceiling, the teams were starting to gamble on high schoolers. What's the sense of drafting a project when you only have three guaranteed years?

 

High schoolers are easier to scout than Europeans and I think it is easier to judge their true level of ability. But if you know what to look for, you can find some gems in Europe. For teams that draft Europeans based on height, I think you will find height-based busts at every level of NBA talent, regardless of whether they are European, High School (Desagana Diop anyone?) or college.

[Precious Roy 0]

If Darko ends up having a bigger impact in the league than Wade or Bosh I'll eat my shorts.

 

And ESPN talking heads are just that, I don't pay a whole lot of credence to what they say.  Picking young foreign players is a huge gamble, the leagues over there are so different and none of the guys come over with NBA ready physiques.  What works in a Euro league doesn't necessarly translate to the NBA.  If you compare the success/failure ratio of 1st rd high school picks to 1st rd Euro picks the edge is going to the high school kids.  Picking big euro guys with "5 tool" skills is a silly trend that hopefully passes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I actually believe the opposite. You CAN properly translate the statistics and find good NBA caliber players in Europe. Tony Parker, Vladomir Radmanovich, Pau Gasol, Jiri Welsch, Hido Turkoglu, Andrei Kirilenko have all experienced success in the NBA. Europe does not produces as many stars, but many very capable players come from there. I think the trend of drafting high school players was more troubling. I'm on record saying 18 year old players should play if they are good enough. The problem is that rather than drafting a college player who has established a ceiling, the teams were starting to gamble on high schoolers. What's the sense of drafting a project when you only have three guaranteed years?

 

High schoolers are easier to scout than Europeans and I think it is easier to judge their true level of ability. But if you know what to look for, you can find some gems in Europe. For teams that draft Europeans based on height, I think you will find height-based busts at every level of NBA talent, regardless of whether they are European, High School (Desagana Diop anyone?) or college.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree with most of what you say, but the way I look at it, the trend of gambling on high schoolers has crossed over into gambling on Euro players, and I think it's a riskier game. GMs now aren't so much translating statistics and performance as trying to project future perfomance based on observed ability in a controled environment, which is risky enough when dealing with a high schooler, much less someone playing a different style of basketball and making a transition to an entirely new country and lifestyle. It's in the opening stages, but just like they did with the high school players, they're trying to branch out and find the next big thing earlier than everyone else, with guys who don't even get significant run in the euro leagues but show "potential" becoming the flavors of the month, and it's going to result in a lot of busted picks. Wasn't Darko a 15 minute a game backup in Europe? The guys who are 6-10+ and show all-around skills in a scouting session have become more enticing to NBA scouts and GMs than they probably should be, and logic and realistic expectations have gone out the window. I know it's early for him, but Darko is the poster child on this tip. Nikoloz Tskitishvili at #5? I'm not saying don't draft Euro ballers, just don't get caught up in the fever at the expense of surer things. It's such a relatively recent thing too, didn't really begin full steam until a few years ago, but look over the last 2 or 3 drafts and you'll find more and more picks, especially in the second rd, who will never pan out or never even get called over here for more than a cup of coffee.

 

All in all though, ignoring obvious cases on both ends, I'd feel much more confident drafting a US HS player over a young Euro player. At the rate they're going, and with the new emphasis on the NBDL, they should really expand the draft to 3 or 4 rounds, it'll make for better and smarter picks, put less pressure on franchises to gamble on pie in the sky picks, or at least take more of the risk out of it, because as is obvious from the age limit shit you can't trust the front offices to police themselves, they're like lemmings when it comes to this shit.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I have always been of the attitude that if front offices want to run themselves like idiots, let them.

 

As for Darko, I feel it is too early to write him off. Larry Brown has not given him much of an opportunity yet. I don't know if he was a backup in Europe, but he would have been just 17 when he played there. He's just 20 years old now. If he gets significant playing time and then fails, it's another matter.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Jose Canseco, 2000 Yankees.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He wins.

 

UndertakerHart also had some good ones.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Canseco did hit well for the Yankees down the stretch. Torre just didn't want to play him.

[brighty 0]

here's one to strike disgust in the hearts of anyone from the UK: Phil Neville has SIX championships.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Here's one. Art Jorgens won five World Championships with the New York Yankees, in 1932 and 1936 through 1939. He played 56 games as a backup catcher in those last for years combined.

[cabbageboy 0]

Canseco was so useless for the Yankees that year that I don't really recall him even being there. When I read it I was like "Holy shit, Canseco played for the Yankees?"

 

Did anyone think that the reason Larry Brown doesn't play Darko is because he sucks? Whenever I see the dude get in a game in garbage time he dribbles off his own feet, shoots airballs, etc. LeBron...Melo...and Darko?