Juventud causing problems

[Guest Fook]

Juventud Guerrera is currently the subject of backstage heat for his actions in a recent match with Paul London. Despite being told not to do so, Guerrera used Hardcore Holly's "Alabama Slam," which, suffice it to say, did not make the veteran pleased. Holly reportedly told Rey Mysterio, who's considered Juvi's proverbial babysitter, to warn Guerrera about using the move.

 

Management and Paul London are also upset with Guerrera for performing the 450 splash, especially since he botched the move and landed on London's face.

 

A final factor in his heat with WWE comes from lowering his ring attire to reveal his upper body definition (Guerrera plans it out ahead of time and even oils his chest before matches). Road agents instructed Guerrera to keep his outfit on at all times.

 

Source: PWTorch.com Newsletter

 

Considering they just brought him in, I don't think they'd can him for these actions. But he probably could have made a better first impression. The only thing I don't really get is why management would be so against him pulling down the straps.

 

And Holly's going to stiff the shit out of him if they face each other soon.

[Just John 0]

Maybe Holly could come up with a less generic finisher. Does Shawn get pissed off when someone like Shelton or Nitro uses the superkick?

[Dangerous A 0]

I can see Holly's point because the Alabama Slam is one of his signature spots. However, Juvy has wrestled exactly once on TV, so it's not like he's established it as part of his regular reportoire. He's been warned now. If he does it again, he deserves whatever consequences come with not listening. Holly seriously needs to grow up though.

 

As far as the 450 goes, Paul London has every right to be mad. I'd be mad too if you caved in my grill by being reckless. On the flip side, I've seen Juventud wrestle since 96 and he hits the 450 right a hell of a lot more than he screws it up.(come to think of it, I can't recall him screwing it up of the times I've seen him) I don't blame him for trying to get over. He's in a new environment and promotion, I can't fault the guy for trying to do his job. Suffice to say, if they told him to not do it again, it's not an unreasonable request. I like the Juvy Driver as a finisher better anyways.

 

As far as oiling up goes, as a grown ass heterosexual male, I can never defend oiling up your chest.

[SuperJerk 0]

Other Hardcore Holly signature spots:

 

-the dropkick

-all restholds

-"grappling"

-walking to the ring

-getting pinned

Edited July 22, 2005 by Y2Jerk

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Maybe Holly could come up with a less generic finisher. Does Shawn get pissed off when someone like Shelton or Nitro uses the superkick?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, he does. During his comeback in 2002 and 2003, other wresters including Palumbo and Storm were told specifically not to use the move.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

I never get the "don't use my signature move" bit as part of a wrester's offensive moveset. I think Jake Roberts said in his shoot interview that he didn't mind wrestlers using the DDT b/c it just made his look better when other guys couldn't kick out of it when he hit it. I tend to agree with him.

[Guest panthermatt7]

Other Hardcore Holly signature spots:

 

-the dropkick

-all restholds

-"grappling"

-walking to the ring

-getting pinned

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Now THAT makes me laugh.

 

Wasn't there a thing a few years ago when HBK returned to active duty where the E wanted to keep Stevie from doing the superkick, but HBK ultimately ended up saying that it was ok?

 

No one remembers Holly's finisher anyway.

 

Yes, he does. During his comeback in 2002 and 2003, other wresters including Palumbo and Storm were told specifically not to use the move.

 

Wasn't that management, not Shawn?

[Guest xad]

Other Hardcore Holly signature spots:

 

-the dropkick

-all restholds

-"grappling"

-walking to the ring

-getting pinned

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Angle-plex 0]

Nothing draws the crowds like Bob Holly and his Alabama Slam. No wonder Juvi tried to steal it from him.

[Guest Trecko]

I refuse to believe I'm reading this. Heat for using a shit spine buster and revealing your chest in a sport that at least 90% of the guys are shirtless.

 

SMH.

[Silence 0]

Other Hardcore Holly signature spots:

 

-the dropkick

-all restholds

-"grappling"

-walking to the ring

-getting pinned

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Carlito:"At least I'm on Raw now. Now dat's cooool!!"

 

*Christian, knowing that he's on the same roster as Bob Holly, puts his own hand on his forehead in agony*:"Oh shit!"

[Epic Reine 0]

A final factor in his heat with WWE comes from lowering his ring attire to reveal his upper body definition (Guerrera plans it out ahead of time and even oils his chest before matches). Road agents instructed Guerrera to keep his outfit on at all times.

 

That is the dumbest thing I have ever read.

[Enigma 0]

If I remember correctly, Juventud was the one who fucked up Jerry Lynn's back with a reckless Juvi Driver in TNA, which caused Lynn to miss a long time.

[JJ Johnson 0]

Juvi was doing the 450 splash long before London was even wrestling, so is London really in any position to bitch about Juvi using it? The knee to the head I can understand him complaining about, but not "he stole my move! CRYCRYCRY."

[cabbageboy 0]

I agree, considering that Juvi has used the 450 for years and Paul London probably watched a lot of his matches to study the move. Is 2 Cold Scorpio pissed at Juvi for stealing his move too?

 

I do see the point here however. If someone has a certain move as a finisher, people shouldn't be using it as a transition move earlier in the show.

[Ravenbomb 0]

I thought they were just mad that he splashed him in the face

 

 

Also, since when does fucking Bob Holly have a finishing move?

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Well, London's established it as HIS move in the E, so yeah: to WWE marks, Juvi stole London's move. Though with the firing of Kidman, I could see London going back to the SSP and then Juvi uses the 450 that he and Scorpio made popular (though Juvi's, IMO, was always better than Scorpio's).

[haws bah gawd 0]

This amount of bitching about a simple move from WWE is ridiculous. How many guys use the chokeslam as a sigature spot?

Kane, Taker, Show

Big Boot?

Hogan, Tomko, Edge

Get over yourself Hardcore. This is the same laughable shit as when Billy Kidman got mad because Brock did a shooting star press in his WMXIX match against Kurt Angle.

[tekcop 0]

I think I'm the only one who agrees with wrestlers bitching about move stealing. I sort of agree with the Jake Roberts comment, but I think WWE workers should have a right to protect their finishers.

[SuperJerk 0]

I think I'm the only one who agrees with wrestlers bitching about move stealing. I sort of agree with the Jake Roberts comment, but I think WWE workers should have a right to protect their finishers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd agree with you if there was some way to actually define the move as a Bob Holly original, and not just the exact same move other guys have been using since the days of Abe Lincoln.

[Just John 0]

Tekcop, don't take employment status into account here, but let me ask:

 

Would you agree with protecting Mark Jindrak's punch of death by saying no one else can punch?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

If Juvi was using the signature move of a top guy like Randy Orton or Batista, then I could see why he should be warned. But it's Paul London here, and, as much as I like London, he's a virtual jobber, so it shouldn't matter if Juvi does the 450 splash. Same with Job Holly.

[Ced 0]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Juvi already botch up a previous tryout by going full speed during the match when asked to slow it down? Hope he doesn't decide to go that route this time around when it comes to management requests.

[King Cucaracha 0]

I can see London's point. He had to stop using his move to make sure Kidman didn't get all upset again. And he stuck to it, aside from the one time in storyline when it made sense. So, London uses a different move, tries to establish it. Then, Juvi comes in and steals it two or three weeks in. London's probably angry about that as much as the move itself being stolen.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

To be fair, Juvy was putting on **** matches and hitting perfect 450s on shows that had higher television ratings than London will ever be on when London was in high school.

[Shooting Star 0]

I think Bob Holly is the only one who has the right to be mad. Juvi could have just done another form of the spinebuster. But the chest and 450 stuff are nonsense.

[Si82 0]

This is fucking stupid. It's a friggin' wrestling move. Jesus, wrestlers really are sad little egomaniacs at the best of times but when they start bitching over guys using "their" moves it becomes retarded. I can understand WWE being pissed over a botched move but not a guy using a wrestling move. And why does the chest oiling bother them anyway?

[notJames 0]

In a way, I can see where the arguments arise. If you use a guy's finisher as something other than a finisher, then that move is seen as just another move. It takes away part of the distinction that wrestlers have amongst themselves. Granted, there are only so many times you can say "don't do powerbombs, that belongs to so-and-so" to everyone, but at least Batista is savvy enough to change his a little so that his stands out. Same with EDDY~! and RVD's frog splashes.

 

On the other hand, it's Job Holly. The Alabama Slam is a transition move. Fuck him if he's not smart enough to come up with something better.

 

And like it's been said before, it's a perfect opportunity for London to bring back the SSP. It's a nicer looking move anyway, and I've yet to see him mess it up. And Juvy just needs to move the guy further away from the turnbuckles. Perhaps his experience with wCw's smaller rings threw off his perspective.

[Guest Fook]

As far as the stealing of finishers is concerned, I see it this way:

 

Each wrestler should have a distinctive finisher that helps make them stand out in the crowd's mind. When other wrestlers use this move it waters down the move, especially if it's not being used as a finisher. Wrestlers see protecting their finishers as protecting their identities. It's like one comedian using another's jokes. I say that wrestlers shouldn't be using another wrestler's finisher unless it's part of the storyline. If your finisher is something like a big boot, then you need to get a better finisher.

[Karc 0]

Wow, a wrestler getting in trouble for trying to make a good impression in a sport where the only time you get a break is by making a good impression. WWE logic at its finest. Here are some more examples.

 

Cruiserweights can't use oil on their steroid-riddeled bodies. Then people might actually start to like them as much as the heavyweights.

 

Criserweights can't use generic heavyweight moves. That would mean they are learning the WWE main event style, and cruisers can't be in the main event.

 

Criuserweights aren't allowed to botch their own signiture moves, but the heavyweights can botch everyone's with style. (Batista, Lesnar)