Campaign 2008

[The Czech Republic 0]

No frickin' way Hillary wins. She's a very conservative Democrat

 

What.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I think what he means is that she's so ultra-liberal that she goes around the bend and becomes ultra-conservative. Things like bringing an investigation of Grand Theft Auto before Congress put her hand in hand with the whackjob "conservatives" who think we need the nanny state to look after us and make sure we all stay Christian and keep our upstanding morals.

 

On the other hand, Zell Miller would be "a very conservative Democrat."

[Boon 0]

See, I just think she's a crazy bitch whose only great undertaking in the past decade has been a miserable, failed effort at health care reform.

[Art Sandusky 0]

I wanna see her and Ann Coulter have a catfight during the campaign.

 

As a side note, I really don't like virtually every Dem I talk to looking to Hillary as some savior for the party. All your eggs in one basket and all that jazz, not to mention I think we're still looking at 2012 or 2016 for our first female President.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

I'll pony up 10 bucks right here to say that if the Dems nominate Hillary as their savior, they will lose.

 

I don't even care who the republicans run.

[Boon 0]

I'd bet $20- ain't no way she'll win.

 

Hell, I could run against Hillary and win. I just hope they know that, and don't think that they need to counter Hillary w/ somebody like McCain.

[Guest thebigjig]

It's been quite a while since I've posted here and though I told myself I wouldn't come back, I can't help but jump in... since the election of '08 is about the only thing that gets me fired up politically now-a-days.

 

First off, I'm surprised that so many of you have bought into the Lady Macbeth image of Hillary that was given to her from the moment her husband announced his candidacy in 1991. If any of you would do some real research and dig up some real facts NOT given by Rush Limbaugh, you might find a different portrait developing of the evil Ms. Hillary. Let's face it. Part of the reason she's so hated by conservatives is because she didn't fit the mold of a typical first lady. I admire the fact that she shed the image of a first lady that keeps her trap shut and is only used on the campaign trail to woo women voters. Republicans felt threated by her from the very beginning and labeled her a "feminazi", simply because she was ambitious and career oriented.

 

Her voting record has also been one of moderation. The Republicans will have a tough time labeling her as an anti-military liberal, considering she's positioned as a powerful member on the SASC and has voted in favor of practically every military spending bill to come her way. Some of you can call "politics" on this if you want, but it's no different than Bill Frist suddenly changing his mind on the stem cell debate in a rather smart political move to distance himself from the ultra conservative wing of the Republican Party. Politics is politics, and Hillary is proving to be a rather effective member of the Senate, love her or hate her.

 

That being said, I don't believe she's the answer the Democratic Parties problems. If she runs (and I think she'll shock everyone again by not doing so), we'll be faced with the same kind of electoral math we faced in the last two elections and she'll come out on the losing end, though I believe it could potentially be as close as the last election, boiling down to perhaps one state.

 

The answer is simple: New Blood. The Democrats need another Bill Clinton in terms of a likeable, moderate candidate... preferably southern. Take New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson for example. Here's a guy who is a well liked, respected, and successful legislator. I believe that he'll likely run, and if he doesn't get the nomination you can bet a year's salary that he'll be the front runner for the VP spot. He's also hispanic, which will be a huge political advantage for him, as well as the potential nominee.

 

Whoever ends up running, expect a power struggle within both parties between the moderates and the extremes. For every Barbara Boxer there will be an Evan Bayh. For every Bill Frist there will be a John McCain. It should be interesting, regardless.

[Boon 0]

You won't convince me that the first non-white male President won't be a Republican.

[Guest thebigjig]

You won't convince me that the first non-white male President won't be a Republican.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Whatever you say, but whenever Barack Obama runs... he'll be a force to be reckoned with

[Boon 0]

You won't convince me that the first non-white male President won't be a Republican.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Whatever you say, but whenever Barack Obama runs... he'll be a force to be reckoned with

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's not gonna happen for a long time.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

Hillary has this BIG electoral problem that the Democrats seem to FAIL to understand each election: they need someone who can CONNECT with ordinary Americans. This is why Bush won against both Gore & Kerry, because while he's criticized as being a nutjob or slurring his words people see him as "Average Joe" in the White House who makes mistakes like ordinary people. On the campaign trail swing voters said that they felt a better personal connection @ Bush rallies than they did to the Democrats, so logic would say that the Democrats need someone to find a connection with middle America.

 

Kerry & Gore were too stiff and lacked enough emotion to make this connection. However, both Jimmy Carter & Bill Clinton were able to establish it correctly and 'read' their audiences to make a good message. Nevertheless, instead of nominating people like this the Dems have given us Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, Al Gore, and John Kerry in the interim.

 

Unlike her husband, Hillary doesn't have this personality trait to connect with Americans and it's going to come back and bite her. Hell, even Slate Magazine said that while Hillary could fight off a "right-wing attack machine" in the election she'd probably lose b/c of her lack of a wide appeal to voters and that says something right there.

 

I'm sorry, but I buy into the Lady Macbeth image of Hillary for a few reasons. First, her healthcare proposal in 1994 was KILLED b/c she didn't reach out to the other side of the aisle, shielded the proposal's meetings from the public, AND lied to the American people about the cost of planning the health care system (it ended up being over $4 million when she promised a budget of $100,000). This was GROSS mismanagement of a healthcare reform plan that could've passed, but she let the momentum die out on it. Also, she played a BIG hand in the wrongful firing of the White House travel office (ala Travelgate) and got the IRS to investigate the fired employees for 'mismanagement' to smear them and install her buddies into the travel office. This doesn't make much sense because the travel office pre-Clinton was non-partisan and had no agenda against the Clintons and was never suspected (or proven) to have any mismanagement). Finally, I find Clinton's hand in smearing those women who spoke out against her husband's misconduct (whether it's our business or not) very reprehensible. I simply don't trust this woman to run the United States b/c I feel she's more like a paranoid or power hungry figure like Richard Nixon than a charming, moderate leader like her husband (who I think was a pretty good president who's legacy unfortunately will be tarnished by the Lewinsky mess).

[Guest thebigjig]

You won't convince me that the first non-white male President won't be a Republican.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Whatever you say, but whenever Barack Obama runs... he'll be a force to be reckoned with

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

8 years. I'll bet a paycheck on it. That may be considered a long time to you, but it's a relatively short time politically. What other star minority do the Republicans have besides Condi? 8 years ago I would've said JC Watts, but he's dropped off the radar. I see the Republicans going with Frist and then Jeb. The Bush Administration is great about putting minorities into high levels of power, but they're not exactly jobs that "move up" towards the actual desk in the oval office. I can't think of any potential Republican minority stars out there other than a select few.

[Guest thebigjig]

Hillary has this BIG electoral problem that the Democrats seem to FAIL to understand each election:  they need someone who can CONNECT with ordinary Americans.  This is why Bush won against both Gore & Kerry, because while he's criticized as being a nutjob or slurring his words people see him as "Average Joe" in the White House who makes mistakes like ordinary people.  On the campaign trail swing voters said that they felt a better personal connection @ Bush rallies than they did to the Democrats, so logic would say that the Democrats need someone to find a connection with middle America.

 

I agree with you, though come on... more people voted for Gore. I hate to beat a dead horse here, but Bush didn't win by a landslide because of his "charming" personality.

 

Other than that, I agree with you 100%.

 

 

Unlike her husband, Hillary doesn't have this personality trait to connect with Americans and it's going to come back and bite her.  Hell, even Slate Magazine said that while Hillary could fight off a "right-wing attack machine" in the election she'd probably lose b/c of her lack of a wide appeal to voters and that says something right there

 

I agree here too. I've made comments before about Hillary seeming as "cold as ice", and I'm not going to flip flop on that. I wouldn't support her in a primary race and if she runs and the Republicans go with John McCain, the choice is pretty obvious for me. However, if they run Bill Frist... I'll campaign for Hillary, and do it with gusto.

 

I'm sorry, but I buy into the Lady Macbeth image of Hillary for a few reasons.  First, her healthcare proposal in 1994 was KILLED b/c she didn't reach out to the other side of the aisle, shielded the proposal's meetings from the public, AND lied to the American people about the cost of planning the health care system (it ended up being over $4 million when she promised a budget of $100,000).

 

Similar to the gross understatement of the cost of the Bush Administrations Medicare bill. The difference is that the Republicans had a huge majority to push that bill through.

 

This was GROSS mismanagement of a healthcare reform plan that could've passed, but she let the momentum die out on it.  Also, she played a BIG hand in the wrongful firing of the White House travel office (ala Travelgate) and got the IRS to investigate the fired employees for 'mismanagement' to smear them and install her buddies into the travel office.  This doesn't make much sense because the travel office pre-Clinton was non-partisan and had no agenda against the Clintons and was never suspected (or proven) to have any mismanagement).  Finally, I find Clinton's hand in smearing those women who spoke out against her husband's misconduct (whether it's our business or not) very reprehensible.  I simply don't trust this woman to run the United States b/c I feel she's more like a paranoid or power hungry figure like Richard Nixon than a charming, moderate leader like her husband (who I think was a pretty good president who's legacy unfortunately will be tarnished by the Lewinsky mess

 

I never once said that Hillary was free of scandal, but it's relatively equal to most politicians in power. The "smearing" of the women that came out against Bill is no different than Ken Starr's tactics involving the families of members apparently connected to the Clintons, nor does it compare to the outing of a CIA agent.

 

I am not making excuses or apologizing for her. But to throw stones while supporting members of your own party that have compareable skeletons is nothing but political hackery.

[Boon 0]

I am not making excuses or apologizing for her. But to throw stones while supporting members of your own party that have compareable skeletons is nothing but political hackery.

 

That's not political hackery, dude, that's the way it's done now.

[Guest thebigjig]

I am not making excuses or apologizing for her. But to throw stones while supporting members of your own party that have compareable skeletons is nothing but political hackery.

 

That's not political hackery, dude, that's the way it's done now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This I know, but it's not the way it oughta be. I try my best to be as fair and reasonable as possible. I've gotten into quite a lot of trouble with my more liberal friends for attacking certain elements of the Democratic Party. At first, it bothered me... but now I take pride in my political philosophy

[SuperJerk 0]

I'll pony up 10 bucks right here to say that if the Dems nominate Hillary as their savior, they will lose.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good luck finding someone to bet against you.

 

I'm one of the biggest liberals here, and even I hate her.

 

 

 

edit: Danville's right. Presidential elections are really personality contests.

Edited August 8, 2005 by Y2Jerk

[snuffbox 0]

I'll pony up 10 bucks right here to say that if the Dems nominate Hillary as their savior, they will lose.

 

I don't even care who the republicans run.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The same could have been said about W. in 1998. He had no credentials for a national race and so many question marks/faults. He did pretty good in national races though.

 

I dont think Hillary should be the candidate but to say she has no chance is to say youre retarded.

[SuperJerk 0]

Bush was the popular governor of the second largest US state in 1998, and had connections with the party insiders as well as the inside track with one of the party's biggest constiuencies. The Texas legislature did everything he wanted in an intentional attempt to make him a look like a good leader.

 

What's Hillary done to make herself look like a potential president? Given very poorly delivered speeches to party faithful, co-sponsored legislation that nobody remembers, and is married to a guy half the country still hates.

[snuffbox 0]

Yeah...the rest of America really cares about Texas politics...

 

Hillary is very well-known and has been for nearly 15 years. She has alot of supporters.

 

Its nice that you guys dont like her and all...but dont bother discussing politics if your going to disregard her chances (knowing full well how popular she is nationally) of being elected. Try to show some brain and talk about scandals and such that could haunt her...but to just say she has no chance is pretty sad.

[SuperJerk 0]

The Republican primary voters bought into his "accomplishments" as Texas governor. That was enough to get him the support of the party faithful, and his pandering brought in the Christian voters. It wasn't Texas politics per se, but the perception that he could accomplish things that got him the edge over his rivals.

 

Try to show some brain and talk about scandals and such that could haunt her...but to just say she has no chance is pretty sad.

 

 

I gave a reason. Hillary hasn't done anything to distinguish herself as a potential president. Then I listed three additonial negatives: she gives very poorly delivered speeches, she's only co-sponsored legislation that nobody remembers, and she is married to a guy half the country still hates.

 

I'd like to add to that she's the only person in America that couldn't figure out her husband was screwing around on her (in the past she denied both the Flowers and Lewinsky affairs ever happened), which raises doubts about her deductive capabilities.

[Danville_Wrestling 0]

Try to show some brain and talk about scandals and such that could haunt her...but to just say she has no chance is pretty sad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I listed a lot of scandals that will haunt her. Hillary may be known b/c of 15 years, but that could well play against her. After all, the whole "Washington insider" look killed Dick Gephardt and Bob Dole.

 

Now, when I listed scandals above I was bashed b/c of "blindly" not looking @ the GOP. However, I'm not a Republican, but a conservative independent. I'm not a big President Bush fan (voted Nader in '04 b/c of a lack of GOOD options) and the Dems had my vote for the taking but screwed it up with Kerry.

 

No one may be free of scandal in their lives, but Hillary's record compared to others is a bit disturbing and I've already made my case above. The difference btw the Medicare/pork bills and healthcare was that the $4 million cost was to DRAFT the bill, not it's cost after passage. Sorry, it may sound silly, but I'm a big supporter of small government and responsible finance and stuff like that drives me nuts (as does the Medicare, highway, and energy bills recently passed).

 

Also, I don't see what's so great about Hillary not divorcing Bill. It doesn't seem like she's that strong of a woman to just stand by and allow her husband to go off on his many different flings. A strong woman would tell their hubby to beat it and carve out their own independent career.

 

The last nail in the coffin for Hillary for me is her support of the DREAM Act which, if passed, would give FREE college tuition to illegal aliens children AND make some 54,000+ illegal students amnesty here in the U.S. I find this to be a bunch of bull sh*t b/c it shows that some politicans in this country decide that we should go out of our way to educate people who aren't citizens of this country as opposed to our own children.

 

*Deep breath* Rant over, thank you.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I wanna see her and Ann Coulter have a catfight during the campaign.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's unfair, Hillary's a woman.

 

I'd bet $20- ain't no way she'll win. 

 

Hell, I could run against Hillary and win.  I just hope they know that, and don't think that they need to counter Hillary w/ somebody like McCain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If Hillary wins, then I fucking hope they use McCain because at this point the establishment is so neo-con that a desperation move is the only way he'll get the chance at it.

 

I'd be in a fucking wonderland if we had someone like McCain instead of "RAAR! EVOLUSHUN IS JUST AN OPINON! DECLINE OF MORAL SOCIETY! CULTURE OF LIFE! FIGHT BATTLE LIKE IT'S LIFE OR DEATH AGAINST THE LIB COMMIES!"

 

And I'd also prefer him over the opposite "REPUBLICANS LIKE TO BURN BLACK CHURCHES AND HANG ARABS BY THEIR TESTES SO THEY ARE EVIL AND PROMOTE HATE OMG," too.

[keith6601 0]

Ladies and gentlemen you're next president of the United States of America

 

http://www.walken2008.com/

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I'd become an American Citizen just so I could say that I voted for that man.

[dubq 0]

No way. Is that for real?

[keith6601 0]

I wasn't sure but then this morning, while flipping channels I saw it being covered and Walken's agent or publicist said "Mr. Walken knows of and supports the site, but we have no comment right now about whether he intends to run for president or not." If it was fake or he didnt intend to run, why would he support the site?

[dubq 0]

True.

 

Some dude on the IMDB forums is saying that it's been created by some "online community called General Mayhem" or something like that.

[SuperJerk 0]

I'd vote for him.

 

He tried to do wonders for Gotham City in "Batman Returns", until that slut Catwoman killed him. And think of all the jobs he created in "The Rundown".

[tommytomlin 0]

I feel like a little boy who's lost his first tooth, put it under his pillow, waiting for the tooth fairy to come. Only two evil burglars have crept in my window, and snatched it, before she could get here...

 

Wait a second, do you understand the CON-CEPT of the tooth-fairy?

 

Explain it to them... Wait. She takes the god damned thing, and gives you a quarter. They've got my tooth. I want it back.

[NoCalMike 0]

The Republican primary voters bought into his "accomplishments" as Texas governor. That was enough to get him the support of the party faithful, and his pandering brought in the Christian voters. It wasn't Texas politics per se, but the perception that he could accomplish things that got him the edge over his rivals.

 

Try to show some brain and talk about scandals and such that could haunt her...but to just say she has no chance is pretty sad.

 

Not to mention the purchasing of a ranch 9 months before the election(governor) to give off a totally fake "down on the ranch" kind-of-guy persona.