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Team Angle Pusher

I just watched Royal Rumble 1992

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I just watched Royal Rumble 1992 and I only saw like 3 guys who didn't get a big reaction and who weren't credible contenders to win the Royal Rumble. I mean you had Sid, Hogan, Bulldog, Flair (YES, YES YES YES YES!), Undertaker, Randy Savage, Jake Roberts, Piper, Martel and the list goes on. THIS is a reason why the WWE isn't as popular as before. They had a lot of stars back then and all of them seemed like credible contenders for the WWF Title. Nowadays you always have like 3/4 guys who might be able to be the WWE Champion if they aren't the champ already. I mean look at Summerslam, Cena versus Jericho, we all know Cena is going to win because what has Jericho done to seem credible? Job to the IC Champion? At least JBL had a 10 month title reign.

 

I guess my question is how could they have all those stars back then and now we don't? Is it because they had a lot of squash matches to make them look good? Is it because of WWE's current writing? Is it because we just don't have enough gimmicks (this might be it as well, all the main eventers are just...normal). I hope you understand what I mean....

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A big part of the problem is due to them doing away with squash matches. When they had squash matches, when the big names finally met, the people were seeing two guys wrestle who they had rarely seen lose, if they had seen them lose at all. They hadn't seem them lose, so they had an aura about them, and they hadn't been tainted with a bunch of losses. Now when two guys meet, thanks to every match being a feature match, you're seeing two guys wrestle who, almost without exception, have lost at least half the matches you've seen them in. Watching two guys wrestle who have both lost half their matches doesn't have the same juice as watching two guys wrestle who have won almost all, if not all, of their matches. Granted it was different era back then, but the point remains that the guys who we paid to see on PPV were generally unbeaten, or we had only see them lose once or twice, if that. With no competition to worry about, WWE can afford to use a few more squash matches here and there. As long as they don't go more than 2-3 minutes, what have they got to lose? It's not like people can tune over Nitro anymore.

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It's a double edged sword because some people clamour for the days of the squash while others piss and moan when Animal and Heidenreich run over unnamed jobbers on SD. And a lot of the time, they are the same people.

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It's a double edged sword because some people clamour for the days of the squash while others piss and moan when Animal and Heidenreich run over unnamed jobbers on SD.  And a lot of the time, they are the same people.

I'd rather not have Heidenreich and Animal as a team at all, but if they have to be used, it's best they run over jobbers rather than beat anyone with a name.

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There were so many squash matches that you were DYING to see a competitive match. That is why I used to go ape shit when Rick Martel would wrestle Haku or Rick Rude would wrestle Koko B Ware on the Prime Time Main Event.

 

House Shows used to be more important than TV. I remember the crowd going crazy for people like Hercules simply because all wrestlers were portrayed as stars as a result of no one (not even mid carders) doing jobs on TV. Wins and Losses used to mean so much more, which is weird because the company has always publicly stated win and losses don't matter.

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I also find it to be that not everyone stands out anymore. Even in the days of terrible gimmicks, at least Max Moon could be told apart from Papa Shango. Nowadays, you've got all these prettyboy types (Masters, Conway to an extent, Swinger/Parisi), the generic hosses (Snitsky, Heidenreich)...there's really not much diversity to the roster, and that takes away from the ability to get into certain characters.

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Guest fanofcoils
I also find it to be that not everyone stands out anymore.  Even in the days of terrible gimmicks, at least Max Moon could be told apart from Papa Shango.  Nowadays, you've got all these prettyboy types (Masters, Conway to an extent, Swinger/Parisi), the generic hosses (Snitsky, Heidenreich)...there's really not much diversity to the roster, and that takes away from the ability to get into certain characters.

 

I disagree, Hercules, Barbarian, and the Warlord were very similar. And for pretty boys, HBK and Martel were similar.

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Guest Rrrsh

There should be less backstage garbage and more wrestling. And with more wrestling, squash matches could be in place.

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A squash here and there wouldn't be too bad at all...but I dislike squash matches for the basic fact that it only gets ONE man over, and sometimes the jobber in the match could be somebody with a SHITLOAD of talent, but since he's a jobber he's never going to be given the ball.

 

I'd like to go back to the day when every match on Raw, SmackDown, whatever mattered and had a reason behind it. Even something like "well, if Shelton Benjamin pins Gene Snitsky tonight, he moves that much closer to another shot at the Intercontinental title." Make the show seem more REAL, more FOCUSED. You can have name vs. name matches all over the card as long as the matches are GOOD.

 

I hate to bring up NECW everywhere, but hey, here it is:

On your average NECW show, a wrestler by the name of Johnny Idol, who isn't too good in the ring but does the heel schtick wonderfully, will lose his match after trying all of his nefarious tricks to win. He'll lose against either a rising face or an established face. At the last NECW show I went to, back in June, he lost a pair of matches back-to-back with Joe Chece, but he didn't come out looking bad either time. Why? Because he lost the first match due to a fluke schoolboy, demanded a rematch, and lost the second match after Chece BARELY kicked out of a move. Idol is still over in NECW as a well-known heel, Chece is still a rising face, and both men are still popular amongst the NECW crowd.

 

...so why can't this be the same way in WWE? Why can't Shelton Benjamin and Gene Snitsky wrestle a match that puts them both over? Why can't Animal and Heidenreich actually have an assload of trouble putting away MNM or a pair of cruisers? Why can't Paul London go toe-to-toe with Rey Mysterio and be put over while also losing?

 

This all comes back to poor writing and poor booking, because when both were at least very good, it didn't matter who won and who lost, because everybody was over.

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I agree with the squash sentiments. I mean hell I used to mark out for a Crush/Papa Shango main event because it actually meant two notable wrestlers were going at it rather than just squashing jobbers. And just imagine how amazing stuff like Bret/Bulldog from SS 92 seemed after watching mostly jobber matches that whole summer.

 

There needs to be more programming. Maybe something like Superstars back in the day, something to just let guys stomp a jobber. Then have the better stuff on Raw.

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"This is why WWE isn't popular..."

 

Dude, 1992 was a TERRIBLE year for WWE and WCW financially, despite the awesomeness of the matches and fresh new top stars.

 

Your argument is horrible, considering the WWF's best recent financial year, 1999, saw only two real "main eventers" in Austin and Taker, and a bunch of upper-carders put in big-match situations (Mankind, Rock, Vince McMahon, Triple H, Big Show, Kane) until they were perceived as new main stars.

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Guest jm29195
I'd rather not have Heidenreich and Animal as a team at all, but if they have to be used, it's best they run over jobbers rather than beat anyone with a name.

 

 

 

I agree, I also think that that is the only possible way that Heidenreich/Animal can be used- anything else would totally expose them....although wasn't the sub 2 minute squash match also the way that the original Legion of Doom got over?

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As long as they don't go more than 2-3 minutes, what have they got to lose? It's not like people can tune over Nitro anymore.

 

Matches have become fewer and shorter on TV recently, so why not have squash matches. But to do so you need a deep roster, which the WWE doesnt really have now, after senseless firings.

 

This all comes back to poor writing and poor booking, because when both were at least very good, it didn't matter who won and who lost, because everybody was over.

 

That and not letting talent actually wrestle.

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Guest Ransome
Your argument is horrible, considering the WWF's best recent financial year, 1999,

 

For the record, 2000 was WWF's best financial year.

 

Both Raw and Smackdown continue to use squash matches on occasion, but I wouldn't want to see more than one (that is, established star vs jobber) on any given show. They just don't make for compelling television after years of Raw's current format (superstar vs superstar) being so ingrained. As far as I can see, they are most effective for putting over a new move, or even one of those moves that should be deadly but have become normalised (such as, say, the German suplex).

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It's a double edged sword because some people clamour for the days of the squash while others piss and moan when Animal and Heidenreich run over unnamed jobbers on SD.  And a lot of the time, they are the same people.

 

What he said. When there IS a squash match, people moan that it's a waste of time (LOD. Early Master Lock Challenges. Benoit/Simon Dean?). Hell, "squash" has become a pretty derogatory term in wrestling in recent years.

 

EDIT: Hell, NWA:TNA had Xplosion which was a jobber squash show and nobody watched it, because it was a squash match show. People moaned when NWA:TNA booked squash matches on Impact too.

Edited by King Cucaracha

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rather than having 50 recap shows, they could throw in the good old squash matches throughtout the shows...instead of showing the Eddie/Rey nonsense in it's entirity, they could feature 2 squash matches and a feature match, just like the old days...man I miss Superstars and All-American Wrestling...

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I think a big problem is the announcing. Back in the day announcers used to pump up everybody, from Koko B Ware to Hulk Hogan, with very rare exceptions (Danny Davis, wrestling managers, etc.). They made it seem that even though Tito Santana would be a underdog against Ted Dibiase, that at least he stood a chance if he the match went his way.

 

These days the announcers ridicule far too many wrestlers. When JR tells you that Rosey doesn't stand a chance against somebody, why should anybody cheer for him. Too many wrestlers are made to look like complete jokes today. Red Rooster was a joke too, but we didn't have the company telling us every five seconds that he was a joke, and that is the big problem.

 

It goes beyond that too. Even Barry Horowitz got more moves in than Simon Dean, but the announcing (and other wrestlers treating them like jokes) is a big problem. 1992 was mentioned, but it wasn't nearly the problem it was even in 2000 as it is now. I really started to notice it in 2001 with the Invasion and it has been a problem ever since.

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I agree on the announcing and will go one further. The announcers make no pretense of certain things being remotely decent or interesting. I mean go back and watch say SS 88...when Ted DiBiase has a typical chinlock on Hogan Gorilla Monsoon speculates that it might be a choke, and thus the audience has a feeling of outrage about it (instead of it just being a boring resthold it takes on some significance and furthers DiBiase's heel persona). Also, people like Gorilla would give insight on a particular move and what damage it is doing to a particular body part. This sort of commentary can aid a rather dull match with basic stuff in it, rather than just doing ho hum commentary and just saying Carlito is doing a headlock instead of explaining WHY he would do the headlock.

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"This is why WWE isn't popular..."

 

Dude, 1992 was a TERRIBLE year for WWE and WCW financially, despite the awesomeness of the matches and fresh new top stars.

 

 

Although the time period we're really talking about (late 91 through Wrestlemania of 92) was a very successful period. It went in the toilet after that, I'll grant you...

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What I think should happen is we should move back to a TYPE of Squash matches.

 

Let's not have complete squashes, but let's have some squashes that a bit more competive. Say.. Luther Reigns v. Charlie Haas from PPV last year. A match like that.. would be beneficial to the viewing audience who wants to see a good match.

 

Give a few Jobbers wins here and there, just to keep the window open that Jobbers can sometimes win.

 

It'll also give you the option to have a few jobbers over like hell.. Example, Dunn & Marcos of Ring of Honor. The Rockers of the old WWF (pretty much were jobbers, who won a few matches).

 

Matches would be semi-competive, and make the jobbers even look somewhat good. This way the Jobbers can take experience and turn into something huge.. Example, Jimmy Rave of Ring of Honor.

 

Ring of Honor is almost the perfect way wrestling should be towards stars. If ROH had a Rumble, you'd NEVER have a clue who the heck would win. Jimmy Rave, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Homicide, Bryan Danielson, Austin Aries, Samoa Joe, Roderick Strong, Alex Shelley, James Gibson, Spanky, Jay Lethal, Low-Ki, Colt Cabana, CM Punk (well a few days ago), Nigel McGuiness... the list is endless.

 

ROH treats everyone like stars, besides a few jobbers, ala Dunn & Marcos, who sometimes will pull out the win. I think they're going perfectly right now, and wrestling should be more like ROH.

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A squash here and there wouldn't be too bad at all...but I dislike squash matches for the basic fact that it only gets ONE man over, and sometimes the jobber in the match could be somebody with a SHITLOAD of talent, but since he's a jobber he's never going to be given the ball.

 

Example: Johnny Devine was sqaushed by Tomko in 10 seconds on Heat tonight.

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