CM Punk buried by HHH, Hayes, and HBK

[Dangerous A 0]

In the latest issue of the Observer, it was reported CM Punk was buried by HHH, Hayes, and HBK after his last Heat match. The line on him was he didn't know how to get over and that the way he wrestles is like he's doing a simulated wrestling match and not working a wrestling match.

 

Meltz the goes on to state his opinion on the matter, which is that no matter what he did, being being an unknown who isn't physically impressive by their standard going out cold, he wasn't going to get a reaction and the all knowing types were going to say that.

The truth is, there is an entirely different standard and style of working and getting over before 500 in a small room and 5,000 in a 15,000 seat arean and like everything else, it does have to be learned. But it's a complete joke when people pick on people as not being able to work who have learned to be good at small room just because they can't walk into the big room and instantly get over.

 

Meltz then says that even from a WWE standard of working, Punk was going to have his weaknesses that would show up when he got there, he is good enough where he would overcome them with experience. Having what they consider a paper reputation as a great worker (if he hasn't proven to be a great worker in WWE rings, then he's inherently unable to work in some people's eyes) made criticisms of his work pretty much a lock before he even locked up. Not going over on a debut after never being on WWE TV is almosta guaranteed lock. An unknown, no matter how talented, doesn't get over to the WWE audience unless they do an over the top gimmick because that's an audience there to see stars.

 

Thoughts? Feelings? Debates (hopefully of the intelligent and friendly variety) on different styles of "working" ?

[Ripper 0]

Hate him all you want, RVD is one of the few guys that got over in his first match. Because he was just different.

 

Punk is a WRESTLER. I will say it now. YOU CAN'T get over being a solid wresltler in a 5 minute match unless you are just throwing out headdroppin moves, power moves or high flying moves. In a small room, Punk could put on a match and in the big room, they are expecting him to get over with real wrestling very quickly. Not gonna happen.

[JHawk 0]

It took several months for Punk to get over in ROH too. Three years later he was arguably the best -- and most over -- worker in the company. I would honestly take more merit from the "he doesn't know how to work" complaints if they came from people near the middle of the card that, you know, don't panic the second somebody looks like they're capable of taking their spot.

 

Punk, if given an actual chance to succeed, can get over on his ring work alone, and he's so good on the mic that he's not going to have to.

 

Funny how a guy that's in the middle of a program with Chris freaking Masters has the gall to say somebody new to the company can't work. Like Masters can work any better than half the guys who never made it out of OVW before their release.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Since when did HHH and HBK start watching Heat?

[JoeDirt 0]

I wonder if it was a "let's show this big time indy star he isn't shit" type thing.

 

Remember Punk buried a lot of WWE guys in shoot interviews. You never know what got back to them.

[Guest wildpegasus]

I wonder if it was a "let's show this big time indy star he isn't shit" type thing.

 

Remember Punk buried a lot of WWE guys in shoot interviews. You never know what got back to them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

What did he say?

[JoeDirt 0]

I haven't seen his shoot interview with Joe, but I think they rip on guys like Masters and Snitsky in it.

 

On a side note, he once said in an IWA chat I was in that Orton and Cena were terrible. But I doubt any WWE officials were lurking in that.

[Black Lushus 0]

you guys know better than I would, can he work the kind of match the WWE wants? I mean can he really? Sure he can work, but is it ROH level work or WWE level work? They're obviously different and perhaps he really CAN'T work at that level...Masters needs to keep his mouth closed, but I think if HBK and yes, even HHH think he can't work, we can probably put some stock into that...

[JoeDirt 0]

That's the thing, Punk actually works a WWE-ish style. He's not a high spot head dropping guy AT ALL. But you give a guy five minutes and he's not going to get over huge unless he does some crazy stuff, which WWE doesn't want. So to give him one Heat match and send him packing is a little crazy.

[Guest *KNK*]

Thankfully this puts to rest all those "Triple H praised CM Punk...CM Punk is on good terms with Hunter" talks that were circulating this summer when Punk signed the contract.

 

Right now, CM Punk can't work the WWE "style" (or rather, has yet to adapt to it) and to an extent, Triple H, Hayes and Michaels are correct.

 

It's a different ballpark working in front of 800 people for 60 minutes with world class workers like Samoa Joe rather then a 6-8 minute match with another OVW trained star.

 

CM Punk's biggest attribute, his promo skills are also likely not to get used properly by WWE either.

 

CM Punk's best hope is that his ROH confidante Mick Foley takes his side and carries him with him through the political mess that is WWE.

 

I have a feeling Punk just might regret not taking that TNA contract when it was offered.

[bob_barron 0]

you guys know better than I would, can he work the kind of match the WWE wants?  I mean can he really?  Sure he can work, but is it ROH level work or WWE level work?  They're obviously different and perhaps he really CAN'T work at that level...Masters needs to keep his mouth closed, but I think if HBK and yes, even HHH think he can't work, we can probably put some stock into that...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Punk's style isn't very high impact or spotty at all. He's a good smart worker who would defintely fit in with WWE style. Watch his match v. Strong where he has the entire crowd wanting to kill him.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Thankfully this puts to rest all those "Triple H praised CM Punk...CM Punk is on good terms with Hunter" talks that were circulating this summer when Punk signed the contract.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why should this be etched in stone as fact and the other report, from this summer, completely disregarded?

[Black Lushus 0]

hmmm, that's weird, not sure why they would jump on him then...though, I'm sure HHH knows full well about his cult following and therefore views him as being at a higher level than other WWE newbies and in turn becomes extremely critical...it seems that non-homegrown talent has gotten shit on a lot over the years by the WWE unless of course it's someone they just plain can't hold down (Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio, Jericho) based on their rabid overness with the crowd no matter what tactics they try...

[Guest cacheton]

Pepsi Plunge?? Maybe HHH is getting his revenge for Punk executing his move better.

[Guest xSarahx]

I wonder just how many Punk matches HHH or HBK have seen. If they feel they can label Punk not knowing how to work with seeing one Heat match, that's crap.

 

I kind of figured something like this was going to happen to Punk. They want to make it crystal clear that even if Punk was a huge ROH/indie star, that means nothing in WWE. I think no matter what kind of match it was, good or bad, those two would of found something to complain about.

 

Unless WWE decides to really push Punk and gives him some promo time and matches with guys that "know how to work", Punk is definately not going to get over in 2 minute matches with the crowd having no idea who he is. I'm sure that'll make a lot of people in WWE feel really good, thinking that the former ROH stars don't know how to work and can't get over (i.e. Paul London) They've got themselves a really good wrestler and talker and if they decide not to push him because of this, it's their loss.

[Guest OSIcon]

The bottom line is that judging ANY wrestler based on one five minute match is impossible to do. You could catch a good wrestler having a bad day or a bad wrestler having a good day. More than likely, it would be something in between but you will rarely see exactly what a wrestler is capable or not capable of based on one fiv eminute match.

 

It is even more out there to blame Punk for not "getting over" in that match. He was booked to lose and at that point was no more than just enhancement talent. What did they want him to do?

[Black Lushus 0]

HHH: Okay Shawn, we're gonna check out this CM Punk character...

 

HBK: CM who? The hell you talkin bout, Jean?

 

HHH: Fuck I dunno, some asshole those retarded IWC fucks cream their panties over all the time...Vince wanted me to check him out...used to be at ROG or ROH or some shit...

 

HBK: ROH...Jean, I have no clue what the fuck you're talkin bout...

 

HHH: Yeah, one of those lame indie promotions...supposedly this guy is the best indie wrestler out there, some awesome star or some shit...he'll never be as good as us, fuck the IWC...

 

*they watch the video*

 

HBK: Man, that really sucked...maybe there's another match we can watch...

 

HHH: No way man, if he's so *finger quotes and dripping sarcasm* big and bad, we'd see all we needed to see right here...

 

HBK: Damn, his hair is nicer than ours too!

 

HHH: fuck that!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Me thinks they are all just saying this to get Punk to cut his hair.

[Guest Brian]

Thankfully this puts to rest all those "Triple H praised CM Punk...CM Punk is on good terms with Hunter" talks that were circulating this summer when Punk signed the contract.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why should this be etched in stone as fact and the other report, from this summer, completely disregarded?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Could be both.

[Guest Biggles]

At this point in time, Punk should be happy that people like Triple H and Shawn Michaels even noticed him enough to mention his name.

[2GOLD 0]

The bottom line is that judging ANY wrestler based on one five minute match is impossible to do.  You could catch a good wrestler having a bad day or a bad wrestler having a good day.  More than likely, it would be something in between but you will rarely see exactly what a wrestler is capable or not capable of based on one fiv eminute match.

 

It is even more out there to blame Punk for not "getting over" in that match.  He was booked to lose and at that point was no more than just enhancement talent.  What did they want him to do?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ummm, isn't this how the WWE decides if someone they give a try-out match is worth signing to OVW?

 

This is nothing new really, they can just send him to OVW and call up Jeter or Albright. If they really dislike him, they can release him and ROH or TNA will grab him up.

[snuffbox 0]

Maybe Punk should start pandering to the hairy faggot demographic....worked well for Hayes.

[Ripper 0]

At this point in time, Punk should be happy that people like Triple H and Shawn Michaels even noticed him enough to mention his name.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know if this was meant as sarcasm or not, but this is actually pretty true.

 

First of all, if this did happen, I am sure that it wasn't as negative as it is being reported. If Shawn and HHH stepped to the monitor to see his Heat match, that could very well mean they are pulling for the guy and saw flaws in the match that would help him adapt to the "STYLE" the WWE uses and what will make him have a better standing in the company.

[Black Lushus 0]

I still think it was just a case of two egotistical primadonnas wanting to see what's "so special" about this CM Punk guy, saw it and thought he was horseshit, though in their hearts they thought the opposite and saw him as an eventual threat to their positions...same ol story with those two...

[Dangerous A 0]

Excellent point Ripper.

 

We aren't sure if it's constructive criticism or if they brow beat him. That's sort of what you get when you read backstage reports.

[World's Worst Man 0]

It's a sad day when a guy who can't work an inferior, crappy style of wrestling is criticised for it. I wonder what those guys would say about Samoa Joe. "That guy can't work, his strikes look too real. This is wrestling, not shoot fighting!" I guess the key is to go out and have a completely ridiculous wrestling match. To hell with trying to make it look convincing, that would just be a "simulated match" instead of a worked match.

[Silence 0]

They want CM Punk to start using restholds, punches, kicks, chops, etc. as the majority of his moveset.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Playing Devil's Advocate for a moment...

 

 

First thing, Punk isn't as awe-inspiring as people make out. For every Samoa Joe match there's a match that in all honesty isn't that good. He's not a bad wrestler by any stretch of the imagination and I do like him, but he's over-rated by a lot of people.

 

Second, why are we treating this news item as complete truth and saying the "HHH likes Punk" news item was bullshit. Didn't they come from the same 'source'? I shouldn't be surprised that everybody's so quick to see the worst in HHH and HBK all the time, every time I guess. But it'd be nice if people would take any article with a pinch of salt, instead of just the ones they want to.

[World's Worst Man 0]

Playing Devil's Advocate for a moment...

 

 

First thing, Punk isn't as awe-inspiring as people make out. For every Samoa Joe match there's a match that in all honesty isn't that good. He's not a bad wrestler by any stretch of the imagination and I do like him, but he's over-rated by a lot of people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You're right, he's not great, but he's still good and is certainly better than Triple H or Hayes. Also, while HBK is/was very good, he has never been the most sound "worker" around, considering how crummy some aspects of his game are. Just makes the situation kind of ironic.

[Guest rawmvp]

I find it surprising that HHH and HBK would jump at the opportunity to lambaste the guy. Actually, I'm not. Those guys are the most paranoid, underhanded, conniving SOB's in the history of professional wrestling. As Black Lushus said, they know he's good -- too good, with a great opportunity to make it big -- but they want to cut him off at his knees like everyone else who isn't homegrown talent or is a potential threat to their spot.