Grindhouse

[Nighthawk 0]

What the fuck kind of argument is this? "That movie sucked!" "It was supposed to!" You're both retarded.

 

Nobody here is a fan of grindhouse movies. Calling Death Proof an homage to grindhouse movies is like calling Debbie Does Dallas: The Next Generation an homage to Debbie Does Dallas (now there's a grindhouse movie) Tarantino made an inside joke for nobody. It sucked. It lost a lot of money. The end.

[NoCalMike 0]

What the fuck kind of argument is this? "That movie sucked!" "It was supposed to!" You're both retarded.

 

Nobody here is a fan of grindhouse movies. Calling Death Proof an homage to grindhouse movies is like calling Debbie Does Dallas: The Next Generation an homage to Debbie Does Dallas (now there's a grindhouse movie) Tarantino made an inside joke for nobody. It sucked. It lost a lot of money. The end.

 

Except it didn't suck. Well I guess that is subjective. Anyways it's really not your call to say whether it was an homage or not. You can definately chime in and suggest it was a shitty way to do an homage though.

[Jingus 0]

subjective

Shhh! Don't remind people that there's no way to objectively prove if a work of art is good in a concrete manner, then they get mad!

 

But it is subjective, because there's always dissenting opinions. I liked Death Proof, it was my favorite part of the whole Grindhouse experience which didn't involve hot Nazi werewolves. I didn't mind the acting, and I liked the dialogue and inane chatter, it genuinely entertained me just sitting and watching these chicks babble. Anyway, that sort of thing really isn't so much a tribute to old grindhouse flicks as it is another example of Tarantino's career-long homage to Jean-Luc Godard, who pioneered the "an entire hour of people sitting around talking about nothing" genre.

[Gary Floyd 0]

Nobody here is a fan of grindhouse movies.

Ahem...

 

Anyways here's a great audio interview with Stephen Thrower (a former member of Coil and an editor for Eyeball Magazine, whose new book "Nightmare USA" gets my heaviest recommendation) about the old Grindhouse movies.

 

You know, this would be a great thread to talk about our favorite old Grindhouse movies, be it horror, old porn, Kung Fu, Blaxploitation, Biker flicks, etc.

[Nighthawk 0]

I was quite heavy on the hyperbole there, I'll admit.

 

I just really didn't like that movie.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

Same here, on both counts.

 

And the blaxploitation films that I've seen are criminally underrated. I really liked Coffy, Black Caesar and the original Shaft. If you're suggesting that Death Proof is the same quality of film as those three then we see things completely different.

[Gary Floyd 0]

For me, "Coffy", and "Dolemite" are the best Blaxploitation flicks.

 

"I wanna see this honky dace!"

[treble 0]

The best movie ending I've ever seen is from a movie called 'The Takers' (I think). I only watched it because the description reminded me of an episode of the Simpsons (bikers move into a house, terrorize the people who live there), thinking they might have gotten some inspiration from the movie. It really wasn't anything like the episode (aside from the bikers), but it was still pretty good.

 

Basically, the bikers follow these 2 women home, find out that the one girl's husband will be out of town for a week, and have their way with them. I guess the husband comes home early, though, finds all 4 of them sleeping in the same bed and shoots the bikers. Then he walks towards the camera, says his line, fucks it up and starts laughing. Every member of the crew then walks into the frame and start talking amongst themselves and with the cast. I wish I hadn't deleted it off my DVR.

[Sideburnious 0]

For me, "Coffy", and "Dolemite" are the best Blaxploitation flicks.

 

"I wanna see this honky dace!"

 

Don't forget Disco Godfather!

 

 

PUT YO' WEIGHT ON IT!!!

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Ugh, The Avenging Disco Godfather. I think I ended up fastforwarding through most of that until "Put yo weiiiight on it!" Not quite as charming as Dolemite and the legendary mischiefs of the hamburger pimp.

[cabbageboy 0]

The amusing aspect of this is that I find the most well known blaxploitation flicks highly overrated if anything. The only Shaft movie I found above average at all was Shaft's Big Score, while Superfly in the cold light of day sucks aside from its killer soundtrack.

 

I have to wonder why anyone would think Death Proof was a better movie than Planet Terror. It takes a blind Tarantino mark to say this, since Planet Terror is full of action, humor, fun characters, etc. Death Proof has some decent stuff in it (mainly anything with Russell) but whenever it's the various chicks talking it really sucks since none of them are at all sympathetic as characters and aren't interesting either.

[Jingus 0]

Except for people like me who did find the chicks to be sympathetic and were entertained by the dialogue. Does the fact that Tarantino happens to make movies which I mostly enjoy watching make me a "blind mark"?

 

Meanwhile, I've never found anything directed by Robert Rodriguez to be anything but average at best (besides Sin City, of course). He tends to specialize in overly sadistic, mean-spirited action flicks in which the violence is more gruesome than thrilling. And before anyone goes "well Tarantino does the same thing", consider the torture scene in Reservoir Dogs. The camera archly wanders away right at the most sickening moment. If Rodriguez had been making it, you would've gotten a gross closeup of the ear being sliced away.

 

 

Has Rudy Ray Moore ever made a good movie, aside from maybe Dolemite? I still get shuddery flashbacks to the time I watched Petey Wheatstraw, The Devil's Son-In-Law".

[godthedog 0]

i've said it before, i'll say it again on tarantino:

 

tarantino has a very deft sense of pacing when he wants to, and that long slow buildup to the car chase gives you a satisfaction in the car chase that you just don't get with most movies. that alone would've made 'deathproof' a better movie if tarantino hadn't brought it upon himself to show the world that he COULD ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT ABOUT IT write female characters and female dialogue, and failed miserably for 40 minutes trying to do it. those were some of the most painfully awkward and forced scenes i've ever had to endure in my life, and they just would...not...end.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

Except for people like me who did find the chicks to be sympathetic and were entertained by the dialogue. Does the fact that Tarantino happens to make movies which I mostly enjoy watching make me a "blind mark"?

 

Meanwhile, I've never found anything directed by Robert Rodriguez to be anything but average at best (besides Sin City, of course). He tends to specialize in overly sadistic, mean-spirited action flicks in which the violence is more gruesome than thrilling. And before anyone goes "well Tarantino does the same thing", consider the torture scene in Reservoir Dogs. The camera archly wanders away right at the most sickening moment. If Rodriguez had been making it, you would've gotten a gross closeup of the ear being sliced away.

 

 

Has Rudy Ray Moore ever made a good movie, aside from maybe Dolemite? I still get shuddery flashbacks to the time I watched Petey Wheatstraw, The Devil's Son-In-Law".

 

Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction and Jackie Brown were great movies, Death Proof isn't even a consideration for being in the same league.

[Ripper 0]

I didn't like Jackie Brown. I liked Death Proof.

[randomguy 0]

Death Proof was not particularly good. Bad acting and bad scripting. For example the black girl in the first group that was trying to meet up with some guy - totally pointless.

 

My problem with Tarantino is that he keeps making the same movies and all his characters sound the same. They all engage in this overly-hip chatter where none of the personalities are really distinguishable. The chatter in Death Proof sounded really forced. At least when he first started his style was somewhat original, now it is played out.

 

Planet Terror was more like an 80's movie spoof than a grindhouse spoof to me. I mean it was pretty much Return of the Living Dead 2.

 

The experience of watching them together along with the fake trailers was fun but as individual movies neither strikes me as anything special.

[Boner Kawanger 0]

I've heard Planet Terror described as the zombie movie that John Carpenter never made in the 80s, and that's the perfect description, right down to the synthesized score.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

I didn't like Jackie Brown. I liked Death Proof.

 

You must not be a fan of good writing or acting.

[Jingus 0]

And what makes you officially more credible to judge what is Good or Not Good instead of him?

[randomguy 0]

I've heard Planet Terror described as the zombie movie that John Carpenter never made in the 80s, and that's the perfect description, right down to the synthesized score.

 

Yeah that is a pretty good description. Too campy for Carpenter though.

 

[luke-o 0]

I didn't like Jackie Brown. I liked Death Proof.

 

You must not be a fan of good writing or acting.

 

Jackie Brown is not all that good. It's OK, but one of the weaker Tarantion outings. Mainly because it's too long.

 

I really dug Death Proof, it's over stylised scripting, it's attention to detail editing, everything just came together really nicely.

 

It's harder to make a film look bad on purpose than to make a bad looking film.

[Ripper 0]

I didn't like Jackie Brown. I liked Death Proof.

 

You must not be a fan of good writing or acting.

 

 

Oh suck my ass, Jackie Brown featured the "acting" of Pam fucking Grier each and every single person with a line in Death Proof who wasn't the director is a better actor than her.

 

I liked the "pointless" stuff about Death Proof. It gave the characters depth.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

I didn't like Jackie Brown. I liked Death Proof.

 

You must not be a fan of good writing or acting.

 

 

Oh suck my ass, Jackie Brown featured the "acting" of Pam fucking Grier each and every single person with a line in Death Proof who wasn't the director is a better actor than her.

 

I liked the "pointless" stuff about Death Proof. It gave the characters depth.

 

None of the characters in Death Proof had "depth", they were cardboard cutouts of dumb, annoying whores that nobody but dumb, annoying whores could empathize with and their pointless conversations came across about as sincere and as genuine as a second grade play of Romeo and Juliet. And before some idiot feeds me a line of bullshit about how everything is subjective, you would have to be blind, deaf and really dumb to actually convince yourself that any of the girls in Death Proof had a better performance than Pam Grier in Jackie Brown. That, or you never saw the movie. There's a difference between subjectivity and ignorance.

[Jingus 0]

Better than Grier? Overall, no. But stop acting like you're the official arbiter of movie quality. You didn't like it, cool, explain why you didn't like it and leave it there. Don't call people names because they like mustard while you like ketchup.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

Better than Grier? Overall, no. But stop acting like you're the official arbiter of movie quality. You didn't like it, cool, explain why you didn't like it and leave it there. Don't call people names because they like mustard while you like ketchup.

 

I already explained why I didn't like it. Then someone made an incredibly stupid comment about the actresses in Death Proof being better than Pam Grier in Jackie Brown without even bothering to explain why, so I called him out on it. Honestly, can any of you tell me how Death Proof is good without saying "because I liked it" or "it's supposed to be bad"?

 

Oh, and BTW, Jackie Brown's "talky scenes" give far more depth to the characters in significantly less time than anything in Death Proof.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

I really dug Death Proof, it's over stylised scripting, it's attention to detail editing, everything just came together really nicely.

 

It's harder to make a film look bad on purpose than to make a bad looking film.

 

So let me understand what you're trying to say... Tarantino deserves credit for making a bad movie on purpose but you think it's better than Jackie Brown (which you said was OK, meaning better than bad) because of its shorter and has over-stylized dialogue? I don't know what you mean by "attention to detail editing". Is it the car crash being shown at different angles?

 

Well almost every Tarantino film has an over-stylized script, including Jackie Brown, but Jackie Brown actually has a plot and a point, and I don't understand how you could sit through (and enjoy) 90 minutes of annoying "girl talk" but a 2 hour and 30 minute movie that moves at a steady pace bores you...

 

And this may seem a little out of left field, but I like the quote in your sig.

[Ravenbomb 0]

The first group of girls were a bit irksome and it was fun seeing them get mangled in the car crash. And also the first half of the movie had Stuntman Mike in a bigger capacity, and I liked Stuntman Mike. The second group was more likeable, so the dialogue in that was easier to sit through, and the car chase at the end was really well done. I don't know if I liked it better than Planet Terror, and I don't think it should've gone last, but it was by no means horrible.

[Coffin Surfer 0]

I fail to see how "Death Proof" was intentionally bad, playful and campy but not intentionally bad. Intentionally bad would be the uber ironic "Planet Terror." I actually prefer "Death Proof" because while it is obvious everyone is having fun it has entertainment value beyond all the constant "wink, wink" irony.

[Jingus 0]

Honestly, can any of you tell me how Death Proof is good without saying "because I liked it" or "it's supposed to be bad"?

Firstly, the car chase scenes were just fucking awesome. I usually don't give a shit about car chases, there have been thousands of them and most of them all look alike. But the ones in Death Proof were truly spectacular. Even if the rest of the movie was nothing but Tarantino sitting on a couch and eating Cheetos for an hour, I still would give it a thumbs up just based on the carmageddon alone.

 

Secondly, I thought Stuntman Mike was a hell of a villain. The way Russell played him, he could be creepy or charming, sadistic or cowardly, and it all worked. He was a memorable and unique entry in the Sociopathic Heels of film history.

 

Thirdly: your main problem seems to be with the actresses and their dialogue. Well, I liked that part too. I thought all of them did just fine in portraying their characters, even if Tracie Thoms's lip-smacking recitation of her overbaked 70s blaxploitation one-liners did get old by the end. I had no problem with all the dialogue scenes, I found them amusing. I would willingly watch an entire movie of just these girls talking, with no car chases, and probably be entertained by it. Would such a movie be better than Jackie Brown? Of course not. But just saying "Jackie Brown > Death Proof" doesn't mean that the inferior choice is worthless.

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

Honestly, can any of you tell me how Death Proof is good without saying "because I liked it" or "it's supposed to be bad"?

Firstly, the car chase scenes were just fucking awesome. I usually don't give a shit about car chases, there have been thousands of them and most of them all look alike. But the ones in Death Proof were truly spectacular. Even if the rest of the movie was nothing but Tarantino sitting on a couch and eating Cheetos for an hour, I still would give it a thumbs up just based on the carmageddon alone.

 

Secondly, I thought Stuntman Mike was a hell of a villain. The way Russell played him, he could be creepy or charming, sadistic or cowardly, and it all worked. He was a memorable and unique entry in the Sociopathic Heels of film history.

 

Thirdly: your main problem seems to be with the actresses and their dialogue. Well, I liked that part too. I thought all of them did just fine in portraying their characters, even if Tracie Thoms's lip-smacking recitation of her overbaked 70s blaxploitation one-liners did get old by the end. I had no problem with all the dialogue scenes, I found them amusing. I would willingly watch an entire movie of just these girls talking, with no car chases, and probably be entertained by it. Would such a movie be better than Jackie Brown? Of course not. But just saying "Jackie Brown > Death Proof" doesn't mean that the inferior choice is worthless.

 

Well it takes a little more than a good car chase/crash to make me enjoy a movie, otherwise I'd be a big fan of most action flicks. Although the car chase in the French Connection was far superior and that movie had good acting and an actual story to go along with it. I like Kurt Russell but I found his role as Stuntman Mike to be a rather uninspired performance. Maybe I need to watch it again to notice the little subtleties of his performance but I was pretty underwhelmed from what I saw.

 

Last night I listened to a one hour interview with Tarantino discussing Jackie Brown and he repeatedly mentioned how he wanted us to "hang out" with the characters in JB. Well I think he ran a little too far with that idea when making Death Proof. It was a lot more fun to hang out with the characters in JB because, a) they had vastly different and interesting personalities, and b) actually did something of interest in the film. All the broads in Death Proof were the same annoying bimbo with no distinguishable traits or empathetic qualities.