OAO WrestleMania 23 Thread-April 1st, 2007

[slimm44 0]

Why is the subtitle not 'What hour will Michael Cole lose his voice?'

 

Also Trump is going to be on Letterman tonight, shilling his Wrestlemania appearance.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Cena vs HBK should be good and really, it's the main events that sell the PPVs. Mania 21 is a show I like but really, it has MITB and Angle/HBK followed by two not that great title matches and a Big Show / Akebono sumo match in there too. I can't picture Kane/Khali being worse than the sumo match, but that all depends on how long it runs. Everything else on the card (except the women's match) should be decent to good to great. I see this show falling along the same lines as WM22 - no truly awesome match but a few very good ones and a decent undercard with some forgettable crap thrown in.

[The Tino Standard 0]

When you have the top two faces squaring off in the main event for both brands, eight top mid- to upper-midcard wrestlers tied up in one match (MITB) and arguably your No. 1 wrestler in terms of mainstream recognition (HHH, by way of longevity more than anything else), that doesn't exactly leave much in the cupboard to put together a solid undercard, so in that regard, they're not doing too bad in putting this together.

 

Predictions-

- Benoit over MVP

- Khali over Kane

- Melina over Ashley

- New Breed over ECW Originals

- Edge wins the MITB

- Lashley over Uuuuuuumaga

- Cena over Michaels

- Batista over Undertaker

[Hawk 34 0]

This is such a strange event cos right now they need people to start stepping up and I just don't see any future maineventers in the undercard, except Punk, I'm an ROH mark at heart so I can't help it, but lets not forget this isn't his first Wrestlemania & he blotted his copy book last year by making out with his girlfriend in the lobby. Who knew WM was a bloody High Scholl Field Trip? (What would be the penalty for sneaking into the ROH doubleshot I wonder??)

 

Appearing on Saturday night might be a problem if you want to be an important person (thanks to the HOF, which wrestlers aren't required to attend but expected) but friday night is open game. Many wrestlers (not just the ROH alums) appeared at the show last year and at WMXX in New Jersey.

[CBright7831 0]

Christ, I hope Taker can keep his streak in tact, but it doesn't look that way.

[bob_barron 0]

Christ, I hope Taker can keep his streak in tact, but it doesn't look that way.

 

You do realise that everyone is expecting Taker to win right?

[humanoid92 0]

Cena/Shawn: I would NOT be surprised to see them nearly hit *****.

 

So by my calculations, I've predicted THREE **** or better matches, one *** and three below ***. That's a damn good match lineup. Even if you went by the low end of the scale with every match underachieving, there's still NO WAY this show will have less then two *** matches, and several solid matches.

 

After it's all over, provided WWE doesn't royally screw this show up, this WM will go down as one of the best in history.

 

You're right that WM cards aren't always spectacular and the whole "WM level match" gets thrown around way too much. I can see where you'd want to speak out on the negativity, but I think you're overdoing it here. With the roster the way it is, I'm not sure how much better they could have done, but it still isn't the greatest lineup ever. In some ways the card is a stronger than last year's show, and there will obviously be a much cooler venue, but I think in the grand scheme it will be a fairly forgettable show... like last year's.

 

You're automatically giving three matches **** before they've happened. And they're not exactly paper-classics like Flair/Steamboat, Hart/Hennig, and Benoit/Angle either. I mean, Lashley, Cena, Umaga, Orton, and a ladder are prominently involved. Personally, I think Money in the Bank is a terrible concept to begin with and the idea is played out. They should have quit after the first one. By this point, if you've seen one of these ladder spotfests, you've seen them all. I don't need to see eight guys, let alone people like Orton, Booker, Finlay, and Kennedy in a ladder match. I saw Edge and the Hardyz routinely killing each other in ladder matches SEVEN years ago. Enough. I think we all know what to expect in this type of match by now. If you want to call that **** then fine, but it doesn't exactly get me excited. I'm not intrigued by this match in the least.

 

Then there's the Billionaires. I have no problem with the match- it's served its purpose in attracting some mainstream publicity. It should be a fun overbooked mess, but the overbooked mess I'm envisioning isn't close to ****. Also, I can't stand Lashley... the guy brings nothing to the table. This thing should have enough bells and whistles to make it a fun little match, but again, I'm not very intrigued by it.

 

Cena/Shawn has potential, but do you honestly think they'll approach *****? I think that's overshooting it. I like the build-up for this match, even if it was just the old cold-war booking, but I've never been huge on Cena in the ring. Just don't like him that much. I don't see this match topping Shawn's WM work with Jericho or Angle. I'd have liked to have seen him against Edge instead.

 

Not to mention the big focus of this show is Shawn and Undertaker gunning for the titles... you know, just like WM 12 and 13. There's just nothing there that's too compelling. Taker's streak vs. Title is fine, but the fact that it's Batista doesn't have me that excited about the match itself.

 

So where you see a possible ***** match, two other **** matches and another *** match, I see one legit really good match (Cena vs. Shawn), a played out spotfest, an overbooked brawl, a *** match (Benoit/MVP), a **1/2 match at best (Taker vs. Batista) and three matches I really don't give a crap about, two of which will likely be awful (women's, Kane/Khali, and ECW). Doesn't sound like a can't-miss "one of the best in history" card to me. Sounds more like a middle of the road show that's had some good build-up.

 

I still don't understand why they feel the need to do things like the whole WM III tribute theme. It's pathetic how they use their own history as a crutch instead of making their own new history, but that's a whole other topic.

[haws bah gawd 0]

Batista was hyping his match against Undertaker to SI.com. He said his match with Undertaker will be compared to Steamboat vs Savage, and they are going to tear the house down. Wow, think Batista has been holding back some untapped technical prowess all these years? </sarcasm>I know Taker is more than capable of producing an exceptional MMA style match, but I'm not so sure about Batista. Unless they went the Hogan/Warrior route, and have been rehearsing this match for the past 6 months, I dont see it going over ***.

[Hawk 34 0]

Batista was hyping his match against Undertaker to SI.com. He said his match with Undertaker will be compared to Steamboat vs Savage, and they are going to tear the house down. Wow, think Batista has been holding back some untapped technical prowess all these years? </sarcasm>I know Taker is more than capable of producing an exceptional MMA style match, but I'm not so sure about Batista. Unless they went the Hogan/Warrior route, and have been rehearsing this match for the past 6 months, I dont see it going over ***.

 

You want him going out and say "Well, I really suck in the ring and I'll probably tear my biceps trying to power bomb him, watch Wrestle Mania 23 LIVE ON PAY PER VIEW!"

 

It's called hype. Every match is going to be "the greateat match ever".

[cabbageboy 0]

CBright, have you been watching any WWE TV over the past 3 months? From the build it's so hilariously obvious that Batista is jobbing.

 

Point 1: At the Royal Rumble Batista was kinda trashed by the crowd, who actually wanted Kennedy to win the belt.

 

Point 2: At No Way Out Batista "turned" on UT and left him to get killed by HBK and Cena. This alone basically doomed Batista to jobbing, since there's no way in hell UT is agreeing to job on consecutive PPVs.

 

Point 3: On this past Raw, UT did the same and walked out on Batista. Did Batista simply job to HBK and Cena? No, he actually still ended up winning the match. Conversely, since Michaels turned on Cena and caused Cena to lose that match, it means Cena is winning at WM and HBK is jobbing.

 

So, add these things up and Batista is obviously jobbing at WM. He HAS to job at WM. 70,000 people rioting at Ford Field would be an ugly thing.

[Hawk 34 0]

Trump blew off WM on Letterman. He chose to blast Rosie a few more times instead. Vince can't be happy about that. Shocked Cena, Lashley and Ashley didn't do the talk show circuit this week. I guess they figured the replays of Trump and McMahon at the press conference was enough.

[haVoc 0]

I'm surprised about Cena, but who the Hell cares about Lashley and Ashley?

[CBright7831 0]

Christ, I hope Taker can keep his streak in tact, but it doesn't look that way.

 

You do realise that everyone is expecting Taker to win right?

I'm always this way when Taker's streak is in jeapordy.

 

You should have seen me when he fought Orton.

[UZI Suicide 0]

Why is the subtitle not 'What hour will Michael Cole lose his voice?'

 

Also Trump is going to be on Letterman tonight, shilling his Wrestlemania appearance.

 

 

I had it on tonight and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they mentioned Wrestlemania once. I wasn't fully paying attention though so I may have missed it but I never heard them say anything about it.

[Guest robrabies]

Christ, I hope Taker can keep his streak in tact, but it doesn't look that way.

 

You do realise that everyone is expecting Taker to win right?

I'm always this way when Taker's streak is in jeapordy.

 

You should have seen me when he fought Orton.

 

What are you worried about? The guy's put over fewer people than anyone save for Hogan and Austin. What makes you think he's not going to bury yet another opponent (albeit I actually hopes he wins this time, because I hate Batista).

[King Cucaracha 0]

Does anybody honestly believe Punk is winning the Money In The Bank? Honestly, no rose-tinted glasses?

 

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see it.

 

1: Punk's still relatively new to the WWE audience. He's had two real superstar reactions, one in Philly and one in Chicago, that I can remember. Other than that, the position he's currently in is about right. Pushing anyone straight to the main event after less than a year on TV is never a good idea.

 

2: Punk has a storyline ready to go that doesn't need a title, with his involvement with The New Breed and The Originals. Kennedy is clearly the guy who needs to win MITB, Punk is like Edge and Orton where he's got something lined up already so doesn't need it.

 

3: If he wins MITB, he'll be pursuing the ECW Title. Talk about a letdown to the average fan; you win the showpiece match of WrestleMania and actively pursue the easiest title to get a shot at in the entire company (and the least prestigious of the World Titles.)

 

 

Punk doesn't need it and wouldn't benefit all that much in the long run. Too much, too soon. It's got to be Kennedy, surely?

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

I see Orton winning the match. Cena vs HBK vs Edge at Backlash for the belt and Orton teases the champ with his shot. Finlay has no chance, Matt Hardy would be alright but just weird because Undertaker/Hardy or Batista/Hardy is not that appealing. Jeff Hardy has a bigger chance of winning than Matt just because he's so damn popular. Kennedy has already fought Taker and Batista several times, but he has a pretty big chance though just because he's ready to go to main event. CM Punk...maybe, the crowd would probably go wild but he's too "new" to go for the World or WWE Title, unless they build him up for a year until he uses the shot. King Booker....no chance in hell. I'm saying Orton or Kennedy. Edge won it the first time and he has had the upper hand in everything so far, it would really make the others look stupid if he also cheats his way to victory this time.

[cabbageboy 0]

The thing is....Orton and Edge simply cancel one another out. I'd say that Kennedy is the guy here, since Orton is from some reports THIS close to being released. Also, Orton has been proven to not be able to beat Cena or Michaels of late so I don't think either match has appeal whatsoever. But then since Kennedy has jobbed hard to Batista, UT, and Lashley does anyone really think he is going to win?

 

That's actually the problem I have with the MITB this year. There's nobody that either 1. needs the win or 2. can do anything with the MITB. This will be the first year where the MITB winner is just going to job when he cashes it in.

 

CBright, here's something disturbing in regards to UT/Batista: They are putting Michaels and Cena on last.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

With the steroid scandal, I really don't see them booking Orton to win. Edge at least has an explanation for what he did (whether you believe him or not), but there is no defending the myriad of drugs that Orton got caught with which is why his name features the most prominently amongst those affected. Besides, I didn't think Orton was going to win even before the scandal broke and Edge is clearly the star of the team at this point. Edge is probably the favourite to win, and the booking going in seems to reflect it. I'm still going with Kennedy though, who is the one who should win and hoping that Edge & Orton cancel each other out. What I am really against is some goofy ending where both Orton & Edge get the briefcase at the same time. The last thing I want is an inconclusive finish.

 

The other matches are pretty predictable. Cena, Taker, Lashley, Khali, Ashley & The New Breed go over, although it would be my markout moment of the night if Umaga won. The only other match with any intrigue is Benoit/MVP, and even there I would be surprised if Benoit jobbed. I know he's moving to RAW so he is going to lose the title shortly, but I really don't see it being here.

 

CBright, here's something disturbing in regards to UT/Batista: They are putting Michaels and Cena on last.

 

That probably has less to do with the outcome and more to do with match quality and getting the biggest star in the company (Cena) on last. It happened last year too.

[what 0]

So, add these things up and Batista is obviously jobbing at WM. He HAS to job at WM. 70,000 people rioting at Ford Field would be an ugly thing.

 

Nobody would really give a shit if Taker lost there. Maybe a slight negative reaction

[Hawk 34 0]

So, add these things up and Batista is obviously jobbing at WM. He HAS to job at WM. 70,000 people rioting at Ford Field would be an ugly thing.

 

Nobody would really give a shit if Taker lost there. Maybe a slight negative reaction

 

While "RIOT" is over reacting, you would see a very, very angry crowd because Detroit is UT country and Batista is clearly not over with the crowd and people don't want to see the streak end.

[cabbageboy 0]

But come on, UT vs. Batista is obviously the more important match. I don't care how much Batista is in the doghouse, UT won the Rumble and thus should be main eventing over the guy he actually BEAT in the Rumble. Further, I see UT winning and Cena winning, so why the hell would a guy retaining be the main event over a title change? Unless they want to just go with Michaels and UT both winning, then I can maybe see this since Cena/HBK is of course a better actual match.

[bob_barron 0]

Since when did Detroit become Undertaker country?

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

But come on, UT vs. Batista is obviously the more important match. I don't care how much Batista is in the doghouse, UT won the Rumble and thus should be main eventing over the guy he actually BEAT in the Rumble. Further, I see UT winning and Cena winning, so why the hell would a guy retaining be the main event over a title change? Unless they want to just go with Michaels and UT both winning, then I can maybe see this since Cena/HBK is of course a better actual match.

 

Rey Misterio & Randy Orton were the final two in the Royal Rumble last year, but HHH still got to be in the main event even though the title was retained by Cena.

[megaadvice 0]

I think Edge will win Money in the bank but my dark horse is Kennedy.

 

There is no way in hell Taker wont win, anyone who thinks otherwise is on a different planet.

 

Cena vs HBK should be good and a hot crowd will make 10 times better.

[King Cucaracha 0]

The only finish I can see for MITB besides Kennedy is a deal with Orton and Edge pulling it down at the same time, setting up a singles match at Backlash for the MITB contract.

 

But that would virtually kill the show.

[RepoMan 0]

Since when did Detroit become Undertaker country?

I wouldn't call Detroit Taker counrty, but UT would be more over at any WM in any market in the US outside of DC.

 

HBK-Cena is the obvious MOTN, and should go on last.

[slimm44 0]

I don't see Undertaker losing. After being the first man to win the Rumble at Number 30, and just blowing off his streak. No way. He is winning it. As for the rest:

 

Melina over Ashley

Originals over New Breed

Khali over Kane

MVP over Benoit

Kennedy wins Money in the Bank

Cena over Michaels

Lashley over Umaga

 

I would like to see Trump get shaved, just because publicity-wise the bigger story would be Trump got his head shaved. But oh well.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

If you get 1130 AM (The Fan, I think) in the Detroit area, they're talking about Mania right now.

 

http://www.wdfn.com/pages/stream_us.html

 

Edit: And now they're not, at least not on the stream, only on the radio.

 

Some guy is really happy that Bobby Lashley reminds him of Ahmed Johnson.

[strummer 0]

Meltzer's Preview:

 

--Some notes from Wrestlemania:

1) Melina vs. Ashley - This match was originally designed to give Ashley the best heel for her to go over in her title win. The problem is, Ashley hasn't connected and she's not really ready as a wrestler. Melina, while not polished as a wrestler, is significantly better in both categories as well as more charismatic. But she's also a heat magnet.

2) Khali vs. Kane - Kane has a bad knee that may require some time off. If that's the case, this should be the injury angle match. Can Khali pull off something as simple as injuring Kane's knee?

3) ECW Originals vs. New Breed - One would favor the New Breed here, since they are the ones who are thought of as having a future. Elijah Burke seems to be the one focused on the most, as noted by his getting a gig last night on ESPN boxing

4) Chris Benoit vs. MVP - If Benoit is going to Raw, which was talked about several weeks ago, then MVP goes over for sure. If not, MVP probably still will be favored to go over here. Technically, because of Benoit, it will be good. A big question is the crowd energy, because when you have 70,000 people at a show, there is a tendency for a lot of them to only respond to big names, as opposed to good wrestling. That could handicap a match like this.

5) Money in the Bank ladder match - Good shot at being the show stealer, so let's look at the eight guys

Edge - Best all-around performer in the company right now and most internally are fully aware of that. Because of that, and his unbeaten Wrestlemania streak, he should be a good possibility to win. The negative is he's won it before and it'll seem like a repeated storyline. An expert in ladder matches, but we don't know where he stands physically after five weeks off.

Randy Orton - The chosen won who never quite made it to the level expected. He's got star tenure, and in that sense seems like a possibility to win

Matt Hardy - One of the most experienced in ladder matches. Will help make this a great match. Will he win? C'mon, Matt Hardy will make a career legacy out of always getting a crowd pop and never getting a push.

Jeff Hardy - Hopefully whatever he has in mind that is insane for this match, he won't get hurt doing. Probably no chance of winning.

C.M. Punk - Biggest match of his career so he will probably take some crazy bumps. Very little chance of winning.

Mr. Kennedy - Has been working with Punk on ideas since this is also his biggest match of his career. He's the guy the company is the highest on that has not already reached the level of Edge or Orton. Because of that, he may be the favorite.

King Booker - If his rep for working up to, or down to, the level of his opponent is reached, then this may be one of the great performances of his career. He's a top heel and the Money in the Bank deal would fit his character well. But I don't see him as a favorite

Fit Finlay - After roughly 30 years in the business, this is actually the biggest match, by far, of his career. A good ring general to hold things together, but I don't see much of a chance of his number being called.

6) Bobby Lashley vs. Umaga - Whatever number above maybe 625,000 PPV buys domestically will be sold based on the value of Vince McMahon's hair vs. Donald Trump's hair. That's what makes figuring out how well this show will do a tough proposition because this is uncharted waters. If you need a hint, on Tuesday's ECW show, they are advertising that "A bald billionaire" shows up. Donald Trump is not doing ECW on Tuesday night. I expect lots of interference here. They have to build to one spot where Trump slugs McMahon. Given the future direction, don't rule out a surprise cameo at the finish by Rey Mysterio, costing the boss his hair as retribution to the beatdown in San Diego. Nobody has told me that one, but it's the best idea based on the current long-term plans.

7) Undertaker vs. Batista - As noted many times, when this match was originally booked in late 2006, the idea was for Batista to win cleanly. A lot has changed since then. Batista says they are going to steal the show and compared it with Savage vs. Steamboat in 1987. Obviously they are going to do a lot of blood and use a lot of props, because in a straight wrestling match, they have no chance at that level. Undertaker is the heavy favorite here since so many have soured on Batista. The only possibility for Batista is in conjunction with a major heel turn. And no matter what, he is expected to be the heel for the night.

8) John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - When was the last time Shawn Michaels had a bad match at Wrestlemania? There are few things that you can't count on more when it comes to Mania is that Michaels will have a great match, and if he loses, will whine about it incessantly before and after. Hell, sometimes even if he wins. The most interesting part of the story here will be the crowd. Will you have the Toronto crowd be enough to boo Michaels? With 70,000 people, will enough be kids to where they'll drown out the boos for Cena. We know that if this was an 18,000 seat arena, that Cena's being booed out of the place. But what about the other 52,000 fans, most of whom are going to see "Wrestlemania" and likely never attend live shows? They are the ones who are going to make the difference. Either way, I expect an awesome atmosphere and a great match.