Guest Richard McBeef Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 Why isn't there just an outright gun ban in America? I fail to understand this.. Wait, the right to bear arms. Oh, that crazy constitution. What good would it do to have an outright gun ban?
MrRant Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 Coming back to this thread is like watching the offspring of two retards try to argue the finer points of hotdogs for dinner vs macaroni and cheese.
cbacon Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 Some findings from a review of research into firearms related violence done by Harvard in 2005: - gun availability is linked to higher rates of suicide - people living in areas where guns are more readily available are at an increased risk of homicide, especially gun-related homicide - accidental deaths are significantly more common in homes that have guns as compared to those that don't (this includes adults) - right-to-carry and concealed weapons laws cause no reduction in violent crime, and in some cases even increase it This is all common sense, really, but there's some data for people who rely on that sort of thing.
Dobbs 3K Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 - gun availability is linked to higher rates of suicide Well, rope nooses are out of fashion. - people living in areas where guns are more readily available are at an increased risk of homicide, especially gun-related homicide Yeah, the ghettos are like that. Where's Jesse Jackson when you need him? - accidental deaths are significantly more common in homes that have guns as compared to those that don't (this includes adults) Darwinian Evolutionary Theory in action. - right-to-carry and concealed weapons laws cause no reduction in violent crime, and in some cases even increase it Is that a gun in your pants, or are you happy to see me?
Special K Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 That's data? That's very thorough. It totally explores causation v correlation. MACARONI AND CHEESE!
MrRant Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 The only reason guns contribute to a higher suicide rate is that too many people are too chicken to do anything that would be painful like slitting a wrist. A gun is instant. And we are better off without them anyways, if they don't want to live, fine by me. Accidental deaths? No shit. The more things you introduce into a home that could cause death if used improperly (stupid people), the more their will be. This isn't guns, this is stupid people. I'd like to see an example where a right to carry increased violent crime where it wasn't someone who was predisposed to crime in the first place.
Ripper Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 And lets not pretend that there wouldn't be alot more dead owners of stores if not for guns. ANd although its not on the news everynight, there are plenty of cases where regular joe with gun thwarts criminal with guns. Criminals don't want to get shot no more than you or I do. Bottomline, alot of people are dead because of guns and alot of people are alive because of them. I am not really sure what you could do honestly.
Special K Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 The outrageously high suicide rate in Japan? All because they have so many guns. No societal pressures. No grey areas. Nosiree. All about the guns.
Dobbs 3K Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 Maybe they should go back to swords. I bet those worked out a lot better for them.
Guest Richard McBeef Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 That's data? That's very thorough. It totally explores causation v correlation. MACARONI AND CHEESE! *elephant noise*
MrRant Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 http://www2.ktul.com/news/stories/0407/416169.html Guess who's coming to the funerals?
KingPK Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 Jesus Christ I can't even go to log in for my email, without seeing photos of this piece of shit in the main news section... I guess if there was ever an instance of "feeding the troll," this is it. I'm swearing off 24 hour news. If something is truly important, the networks will break into regular coverage. Otherwise, it can wait for me to digest it from more civilized sources. I did that long ago. CNN is probably still somewhat worthwhile as they dump a lot of the sensationalist crap on Headline News, but Fox News and MSNBC are barely watchable. All you need is the local news and a newspaper or a news web site.
Guest Smues Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 And lets not pretend that there wouldn't be alot more dead owners of stores if not for guns. ANd although its not on the news everynight, there are plenty of cases where regular joe with gun thwarts criminal with guns. Criminals don't want to get shot no more than you or I do. Bottomline, alot of people are dead because of guns and alot of people are alive because of them. I am not really sure what you could do honestly. I read a book about gun bias in the media, and one of the things the guys pointed out was just that. He looked at some shootings that were ended when someone with a legal gun saved the day, looked at all the stories he could find in the media about the incidents, and only like 10% of the stories ever mentioned that the bad guy was stopped because of a good guy (bad guy, good guy, what am I a White Sox announcer?) using a gun. That's not to say that people with legally owned guns stop crime everyday, but when it happens it sure doesn't seem to get the press that bad guys with guns does.
Guest Richard McBeef Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 only like 10% of the stories ever mentioned that the bad guy was stopped because of a good guy (bad guy, good guy, what am I a White Sox announcer?) he gawn
snuffbox Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 http://www2.ktul.com/news/stories/0407/416169.html Guess who's coming to the funerals? Guess who already said that.
theintensifier Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 http://www2.ktul.com/news/stories/0407/416169.html Guess who's coming to the funerals? .......what the fuck is wrong with those people?
Hank Kingsley Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 This was posted on the facebook group "Stop Fred Phelps & WBC from Protesting at VTech Funerals": Through some influence of this group or just the willpower and prayers of 50,000+ people, the WBC was STOPPED. They will not be picketing any Virginia Tech victims funerals. Now the work continues with Project Grace. WE ARE SUCCESSFUL!!! WE DID PREVAIL!!! COLUMBIA COUNTY POLICE INFORMED ME THAT WESTBORO WILL NOT BE PICKETING SOMEONE OFFERED THEM 3 HOURS OF NATIONAL RADIO TIME IN EXCHANGE FOR THEM NOT TO PICKET!!! SPREAD THE WORD!! Still giving them the attention they want, of course. Plus, there isn't an actual source, so I dunno.
Guest Richard McBeef Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 Facebook Activism, fuck yeah!
Dobbs 3K Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 Yeah, I'm sure their little internet group made the religious zealots change their minds.
Mike wanna be Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 Anyone else wondering why "God hates fags" is apparently a viable reason to do anything? If God hates fags....why doesn't he take his anger out on the fags, eh?
Gary Floyd Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 Honestly, is anybody actually suprised by anything that Phelps and co. do anymore?
2GOLD Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 Anyone else wondering why "God hates fags" is apparently a viable reason to do anything? If God hates fags....why doesn't he take his anger out on the fags, eh? God apparently thinks everyone outside of that church is gay. And no, I'll never be surprised by Fred anymore. I just know when the bikers,who were in town for bike week in Ocean City, showed up to protect one of our local soldier funerals, his church changed their plans real fast.
Vampiro69 Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 If Phelps and his group of idiots would have shown up, I honestly feel that several V-Tech students would have been in a serious confrontation with the group and trouble would have occurred in some manner.
King Cucaracha Posted April 21, 2007 Report Posted April 21, 2007 You know what`s great about the news? How they spend 20 minutes on how NBC were wrong for showing the tape, after having spent 20 minutes recapping the tape themselves.
Dr. Zaius Posted April 22, 2007 Report Posted April 22, 2007 Phelps needs to protest Ted Haggard's church. That'd be awesome.
cbacon Posted April 23, 2007 Report Posted April 23, 2007 The point of the link I posted was that areas that have higher numbers of legally purchased firearms have higher rates of firearms related deaths. The guy who shot up the school in Virginia used legally purchased guns. I'm not saying that all people who buy guns legally are criminals, but enough of them are for it to be reasonable to ban them. Not to mention that there's no reason a citizen in an industrialized, liberal democratic society needs a gun. None. It poses an unnecessary risk for no gain. However, a much better solution would be to prevent the root cause in the first place. In the case of the United States, violent crime could be curbed drastically by addressing the causes of crime. Inequality is a commonly highlighted cause of crime. The war on drugs and the blackmarket it has created is an absolutely gigantic contributor as well. I forget the statistic I had on Baltimore, but well over 50% of homicides were as a result of drug-related gang activity. These people, operating outside of the state, are the ones who carry and use weapons because they cannot go to the state for protection. With that said, I believe economic reform is less likely than gun reform. A significant majority of Americans (something like 60-70% last I checked) favour stronger gun restrictions. Unfortunatly, I don't think significant economic or gun reform is likely in either Canada or the U.S., but I think gun reform would be easier to pass, especially in the short term. It may also be time to hold gun manufacturers liable for the damage their products cause might curb their enthusiasm for selling and giving them away wrecklessly. The people who profit from the easy access to firearms take this threat seriously and are lobbying the US government to restrict the right of their victims to sue them. /rant
EVIL~! alkeiper Posted April 23, 2007 Report Posted April 23, 2007 If you're going to talk about equality, economically the shooter was not in a different world from his victims. The problem is social equality, and I don't know how the heck you would go about legislating that. Even basic nomadic tribes had outcasts. As for gun control, you can set a certain amount of restrictions, but until you revoke the second amendment you can not ban them entirely.
Guest Tzar Lysergic Posted April 23, 2007 Report Posted April 23, 2007 The point of the link I posted was that areas that have higher numbers of legally purchased firearms have higher rates of firearms related deaths. The guy who shot up the school in Virginia used legally purchased guns. I'm not saying that all people who buy guns legally are criminals, but enough of them are for it to be reasonable to ban them. Not to mention that there's no reason a citizen in an industrialized, liberal democratic society needs a gun. None. It poses an unnecessary risk for no gain....It may also be time to hold gun manufacturers liable for the damage their products cause might curb their enthusiasm for selling and giving them away wrecklessly. The people who profit from the easy access to firearms take this threat seriously and are lobbying the US government to restrict the right of their victims to sue them. /rant Disgusting. How about as a check against a potentially tyrannical government? How about for law abiding citizens to defend themselves when it's not feasable in the least to wait for a cop to get them out of a jam? Do you honestly think it's reasonable for people living outside of a major urban center to hide in a hall closet and hope they don't get killed or worse for the fifteen minutes it takes for help to arrive? There's no reducing the number of weapons out there right now. None. Be as gun-grabby as you want, but keep in mind that banning weapons is going to leave weapons in the hands of two groups: crooks and the goverment, and I don't trust any of those assholes with my life, property, and well-being. Every dictator from Hitler to Pol Pot disarmed the populace before systematically destroying them. If the trade off is one nutcase shooting up a college or post office, or some idiot gangbangers wasting each other, I'll take it. In case you haven't noticed, there's plenty of guns in Canada as well. Suing gun manufacturers? Are you insane? How about everyone who gets hurt or killed in a car wreck starts suing the automotive industry? Last time I checked, a whole lot more people are killed or injured in their Toyota than they are by the Remington in the nightstand. Also, as much crowing you do about inequality, how about finally ripping a real cause of these whackjobs' atrocities: an invasive society, poorly tested and widely perscribed psychiatric drugs that warp and rewire people's minds, and an exploitative, sensationalistic media? Every political bent has a raging hard on for stories like this because it provides a great big soapbox to stand on to regurgitate their party line. "Get rid of guns!" "Get rid of immigrants!" "Economic and social equality!" "Reaching out to outcast disturbed kids!" "Show the killer's tapes!" "Censor the killer's tapes!" "Video games and violent movies!" "Comic books!" "God hates fags!" It's all bullshit. Guy was nuts and killed a bunch of people. End of story. /rant
Gary Floyd Posted April 23, 2007 Report Posted April 23, 2007 Once again, can we please ban C-Bacon from the CE folders? BTW, I read the quoted post, you fucking waste. (I'm talking to him.)
bob_barron Posted April 23, 2007 Report Posted April 23, 2007 Can we please ban gary floyd from the CE Folder? He's worse then C-Bacon.
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