Michael Vick's "Dog Fight" Investigation

[Guest Soriano's Torn Quad]

You don't grasp the issues and you aren't very bright.

 

He had been bankrolling what can be defined as organized crime, in which animals are bred to kill other animals for sport. Clearly, this behavior is frowned upon by the federal government. The pitbulls generally do have to be euthanized, as a matter of fact, because they have been irreparably molded into killing machines, so to speak, and cannot be safely mainstreamed as adopted pets or put to use in some capacity. Vick and the kennel he had been financing are responsible for that as well, which, along with everything else involved, adds up to quite a bit more than "an hour of discomfort." They're not "put out to stud and live a full life" like thoroughbred horses, you know.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I like how Marvin makes a point, everybody misinterprets it with a bad analogy, then I explain what Marvin was saying, and 10 people have to give the same bad analogy again. I don't know if it's that you can't read all of a 3 sentence post or that you're deliberately trying to misinterpret the point.

 

Anyway, let me say this again, slowly:

I know that what Michael Vick did to the dogs isn't the same as what Jason Kidd to his wife. The point is that beating your wife is a lot worse than anything you can do to a dog even if that involves fighting it to the death before killing it.

 

Besides, killing isn't even the issue here. What's the ideal outcome here according to PETA/the government et al? It's that all the dogs get cleaned up and petted by a Humane Society worker and then get killed anyway. What does that accomplish? If I was a dog, I'd rather have a chance to fight for my life and maybe survive to be put out to stud and live a full life, then to get "rescued" and then injected with lethal toxins. All Vick's really being punished for here is giving the dogs discomfort for an hour or two.

 

 

Wow. I just don't know what can be said about any of this. You don't even have the most basic understanding of this case, do you?

[Slayer 0]

Anyway, I heard his apology, and it seemed sincere enough. I hope he avoids getting shanked and raped in prison, because nobody deserves that, but I'm not in any hurry to see him play in the NFL again if there are better quarterbacks who don't run dogfighting rings, which I'm assuming there are.

I hear Brady Quinn's really into cockfighting

[cd213 0]

That apology was pure shit. I love how EVERYONE seems to "find Jesus" or "find god" once they've been caught. Would he have been asking them for forgivess if he had not been caught. He can say he is sorry till the cows come home, I hope he rots in jail.

[dh86 0]

That apology was pure shit. I love how EVERYONE seems to "find Jesus" or "find god" once they've been caught. Would he have been asking them for forgivess if he had not been caught. He can say he is sorry till the cows come home, I hope he rots in jail.

 

How soon before we see the Michael Vick Jailhouse Interview with glasses? (you know a guy cant give a jailhouse interview without wearing glasses)

[The Niggardly King 0]

Anyway, I heard his apology, and it seemed sincere enough. I hope he avoids getting shanked and raped in prison, because nobody deserves that, but I'm not in any hurry to see him play in the NFL again if there are better quarterbacks who don't run dogfighting rings, which I'm assuming there are.

I hear Brady Quinn's really into cockfighting

 

He's just a fun loving young guy.

[MFer 0]

That apology was pure shit. I love how EVERYONE seems to "find Jesus" or "find god" once they've been caught. Would he have been asking them for forgivess if he had not been caught. He can say he is sorry till the cows come home, I hope he rots in jail.

Well he had to say SOMETHING; it beats saying "I'm not sorry, in fact, I'm glad I did it it. I don't give a flying fuck about those dogs...or you people too."

 

[Sideburnious 0]

Anyway, let me say this again, slowly:

I know that what Michael Vick did to the dogs isn't the same as what Jason Kidd to his wife. The point is that beating your wife is a lot worse than anything you can do to a dog even if that involves fighting it to the death before killing it.

 

Well, what if she deserved it?

[Broward83 0]

Alright...since he's given his plea and nothing is scheduled until December 10th, can we put a temporary lock on this thread? All its become is a place where people are taking pot-shots at the other for their personal stance on this case that would be better suited for the CS.

 

Maybe when something of note happens, a mod can post the news bite in here, allow a bit of discussion but then close it back.

[bob_barron 0]

Absolutely not. People should be free to argue and discuss their thoughts on the case, no matter how stupid some posts may be.

 

We should be encouraging, not discouraging discussion

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Alright...since he's given his plea and nothing is scheduled until December 10th, can we put a temporary lock on this thread? All its become is a place where people are taking pot-shots at the other for their personal stance on this case that would be better suited for the CS.

 

Maybe when something of note happens, a mod can post the news bite in here, allow a bit of discussion but then close it back.

No. I can't even remember the last time I locked a non-ESPN thread, to be honest.

[Ripper 0]

Will never understand people that want threads closed. If you don't like it don't post in it.

 

This is arguably the biggest fall from grace in recent history. Some people want to keep talking about it.

[bob_barron 0]

All Vick's really being punished for here is giving the dogs discomfort for an hour or two.

 

Remember when you said you didn't want to post here because there was no discussion of Federer v. Nadal?

 

Czech and cheech basically covered anything else.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Will never understand people that want threads closed. If you don't like it don't post in it.

 

This is arguably the biggest fall from grace in recent history. Some people want to keep talking about it.

 

Since Mike Tyson really. OJ Simpson was at least retired.

[Ripper 0]

Tysons fall was after losing to Buster Douglas so had had already started his fall right there.

 

I think this trumps Tyson.

[iggymcfly 0]

All Vick's really being punished for here is giving the dogs discomfort for an hour or two.

 

Remember when you said you didn't want to post here because there was no discussion of Federer v. Nadal?

 

Czech and cheech basically covered anything else.

 

Well, I came back for college football season although there hasn't really been much discussion on that either so maybe it was a mistake. This will be my last post in the Vick thread anyway, at least until sentencing. I agree that the story's getting run into the ground and there's not going to be anything new happening for quite a while.

[The Man in Blak 0]

Jamie Foxx chimes in on the Vick case.

 

“Most brothers didn’t know that, you know. I used to see dogs fighting in the neighborhood all the time. I didn’t know that was Fed time. So, Mike probably just didn’t read his handbook on what not to do as a black star.”

[2GOLD 0]

Jamie Foxx chimes in on the Vick case.

 

“Most brothers didn’t know that, you know. I used to see dogs fighting in the neighborhood all the time. I didn’t know that was Fed time. So, Mike probably just didn’t read his handbook on what not to do as a black star.”

 

I'm beginning to think that the ones coming out to defend him should just stop. They are doing a better job of making themselves look foolish and condoning his actions than they are in helping his case. You can't say "I know cruelty to animals is wrong" and then say "But it's a black thing man, we don't know fighting and killing dogs is wrong."

 

Stop it, just stop trying to help. You are doing much more harm than good. Much more.

[Ripper 0]

To be fair, he didn't say he didn't know it wasn't a crime. He said FED TIME. Which if you are stupid enough to do this you probably didn't know that having dog fights in different states is a federal crime.

 

But yeah, the "black star" line was stupid. But then again, he is a comedian. I don't know how serious you can take what he says.

 

[2GOLD 0]

 

It just seems like everyone who comes out in defense of him isn't getting the serious issues involved and think it's just the cruelty of animals thing. Plus really, this isn't about the death of one dog even if it was just about the dogfighting. This is about the deaths of multiple animals in very cruel ways.

 

So yeah, you can get off for the death of a person and a dog. But how many people get off for the deaths of multiple people in gruesome ways? Not bloody many, that's for sure. Even if he didn't order the dogs deaths and he didn't personally kill them, he still would know that if the dog doesn't perform that it doesn't get entered into dog shows next which would still make him guilty in a mob boss kind of way. So 1 to 5 years for multiple dogs is a gift since if it was people, Vick would be dead in 10 years from a needle. And hell no, I don't think he should die for what he did but to say this isn't a jail time issue is stupid.

 

With Jamie, I don't know. Sometimes he is ultra serious about issues and sometimes he's not. I just don't know if he was kidding around or just being stupid. Luckily for him, he has that comedian card to claim it was a joke and get the benefit of the doubt.

[Ripper 0]

1-5 years isn't a gift for killing the dogs. Lets not get confused here, any sentence that Vick gets is because of his celebrity. The same thing that would have gotten him a better defense is going to bite him in the ass now.

 

Fact of the matter is, if this was normal joe who pleaded guilty to the same thing with no priors, he probably would get probabtion and a fine.

 

But honestly, the federal goverment couldn't give less of a shit about those dogs. This is about illegal gambling and the organized crime that usually goes hand and hand with it. The public outcry is about animal cruelty, but if Vick had killed each and everyone of those dogs the most he could have gotten, the absolute maximum, would have been one year in prison and a fine. This is about gambling in 3 different states. And using Jamies comments, Vick probably was too stupid to know the punishment that something like that carries.

 

You can look at guys like Qyntel Woods to see what running a dog fighting opperation will usually get you(80 hours of community service and a required $10,000 donation to the local Humane Society). Running it across state lines...thats what is getting Vick in the end. And even then, regular guy John Smith probably wouldn't get ANY prison time with those charges if he had no priors.

[MrRant 0]

1-5 years isn't a gift for killing the dogs. Lets not get confused here, any sentence that Vick gets is because of his celebrity. The same thing that would have gotten him a better defense is going to bite him in the ass now.

 

Fact of the matter is, if this was normal joe who pleaded guilty to the same thing with no priors, he probably would get probabtion and a fine.

 

But honestly, the federal goverment couldn't give less of a shit about those dogs. This is about illegal gambling and the organized crime that usually goes hand and hand with it. The public outcry is about animal cruelty, but if Vick had killed each and everyone of those dogs the most he could have gotten, the absolute maximum, would have been one year in prison and a fine. This is about gambling in 3 different states. And using Jamies comments, Vick probably was too stupid to know the punishment that something like that carries.

 

You can look at guys like Qyntel Woods to see what running a dog fighting opperation will usually get you(80 hours of community service and a required $10,000 donation to the local Humane Society). Running it across state lines...thats what is getting Vick in the end. And even then, regular guy John Smith probably wouldn't get ANY prison time with those charges if he had no priors.

 

Many legal experts disagree with you about his sentence being just because he's an NFL QB.

[Ripper 0]

 

U.S. Attorney Chuck Rosenberg said in a statement:

 

"A first-time offender might well receive no jail time for this offense," Rosenberg said. "We thought, however, that the conduct in this conspiracy was heinous, cruel and inhumane."

 

And thats the guy prosecuting the case.

 

It is ridiculous to say that this case was any more henious or cruel or inhumane than any dog fighting operation. Some sick fuck bets another sick fuck that his dog will win, and the dog that loses is either killed in the ring or by some other action. This is no different than any other dog fighting opperation when it come the the henious and cruel nature of it.

 

What makes this case different is that every single detail of it has been all over the news and they didn't want the public outcry if they gave him what they would give anyone else. They are making an example out of him, which is a good thing because who better to make and example out of than the most famous dog fighter ever.

 

But yeah, any sentence he gets will be because of his stardom.

[JimmyHendricks 0]

This case/situation will become the racially motivated topic of this decade. Like O.J over a decade ago, it won't be about what Michael Vick did, but rather about the color of his skin. Expect Jesse Jackson to come out and protest if Vick isn't offered back his starting QB job with the Falcons the instant he gets out of prison. When no team will sign him, it won't be because he led an illegal dogfighting ring on his own property--no--it will be because he's black.

 

People need to stop getting caught up in the idea of being black/white/hispanic and just look at what he did. If Peyton Manning did this, it would be all about the crime. With Michael Vick, it will be all about race. I see white people on TV talking about how he couldn't get away from his street cred as a black man, like they have some idea what it's like to be African-American. I see black people on TV supporting him, even defending what he did, and trying to downplay it. Stop. Send him to jail. He deserves it. If some NFL team wants to sign him when he is released, fine. But don't take sides because of his race--which is what I see happening.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous, but Vick is the one who played into the stereotype of the low-brow gangsta thug black athlete. No one was trying to put him in that mold, he did it himself.

[Ripper 0]

This case/situation will become the racially motivated topic of this decade. Like O.J over a decade ago, it won't be about what Michael Vick did, but rather about the color of his skin. Expect Jesse Jackson to come out and protest if Vick isn't offered back his starting QB job with the Falcons the instant he gets out of prison. When no team will sign him, it won't be because he led an illegal dogfighting ring on his own property--no--it will be because he's black.

 

People need to stop getting caught up in the idea of being black/white/hispanic and just look at what he did. If Peyton Manning did this, it would be all about the crime. With Michael Vick, it will be all about race. I see white people on TV talking about how he couldn't get away from his street cred as a black man, like they have some idea what it's like to be African-American. I see black people on TV supporting him, even defending what he did, and trying to downplay it. Stop. Send him to jail. He deserves it. If some NFL team wants to sign him when he is released, fine. But don't take sides because of his race--which is what I see happening.

 

yeah, except this is kinda a bunch of crap. Not that it is being portrayed as a racial issue, but it seems as though you believe that it actually is this way in reality. i apologize in advanced if you aren't saying that.

 

There are plenty of people that are not black supporting Vick saying what he did isn't a big deal. There is NO shortage of black people calling him the dumbest son ova bitch that ever walked the planet.

 

News editors will only show the race supporting him that they want. I know for certain that there were PLENTY of black Peta members protesting him, but I didn't see one on camera. I know for certain there were plenty of whites on the otherside of the protest championing him and saying its not a big deal. But you only would see the black ones.

 

Bottomline, racial tension is more interesting than athlete who broke the law, simple as that. Thats why ESPN had a front page story about lynchings in the early 1900's in connection with the Vick case. Even though that didn't have the slightest bit of a goddamned thing to do with the case. That is why we have seen every black writer from every news paper in the country being interviews as if their opinion means more than any other writers. Just like OJ, who honestly, most black people couldn't give less of a shit about, was made into a racial case, so was this one and mostly by the media.

 

Cases like that Sean Bell case, or that African immigrant getting shot to hell and back in NY, the Jena 6, Genarlow Wilson or (for some unknown reason to me) Rodney King are cases where there is a actual racial divide. This one is purely media hype that I don't believe to exist in real life.

 

I can honestly say that I have heard maybe 4-5 black people say something like its not that big of a deal. The most commonly used phrase I have heard between barber shops, around friends, or just being out at a sports bar somewhere has been "that has got to be the dumbest nigga walking the planet. They need to lock his dumb ass up for being stupid. "

 

Black/white, you are not going to find to many people that will sympathise or try to paint the guy that had a 130 million dollar contract and 50 million dollars in endorsements as the victim when he fucked it up all on his own.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Good to see Marvin is keeping abreast, as it were, of relevant feminist issues over at "women's eNews," though.

 

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Jamie Foxx chimes in on the Vick case.

 

“Most brothers didn’t know that, you know. I used to see dogs fighting in the neighborhood all the time. I didn’t know that was Fed time. So, Mike probably just didn’t read his handbook on what not to do as a black star.”

 

I'm beginning to think that the ones coming out to defend him should just stop. They are doing a better job of making themselves look foolish and condoning his actions than they are in helping his case. You can't say "I know cruelty to animals is wrong" and then say "But it's a black thing man, we don't know fighting and killing dogs is wrong."

 

Stop it, just stop trying to help. You are doing much more harm than good. Much more.

But he's speaking some truth there. I hate to be "that guy," but my roommate grew up in what could be defined as "the hood" and said this sort of thing was fairly commonplace. Kids would bring their dogs outside and have them fight. This obviously doesn't excuse what Vick did. He's a grown man who willingly participated in activities he knew to be illegal. I'm just saying Foxx isn't trying to put a positive spin on the situation; he's simply recalling what he saw.

[Ripper 0]

In tha hood dog fights are different because people break it up once it is clear that the other dog is going to win and everyone goes home with their dog and not shooting it in the head.