WWE General Discussion - October 2007

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

WWE.com has a match with Harry Smith and Carlito on the front page. Harry comes down to his dad's music, and gets on the mic and said that he was dedicating the match to the memory of his father.

Yeah I watched it.

 

Surprised they announced him as coming from Calgary.

 

Also, it seemed rather tacky the way he announced he was Bulldog's son.

 

I saw it live this Monday, pretty decent match, cheap pop mentioning his Father, but it got the crowd behind him. I was behind him as soon as I saw him, wanted to see him wrestling for ages, I went crazy when he hit the running powerslam - most people did. Was a nice little match.

[Ginger Snaps 0]

"ECW was the stuff of urban legend. It had a rabid fan base, created more memorable moments in the 1990s on their budget than WCW did with hundreds of millions of dollars,

 

Uh, what.

 

The NWO storyline alone created more memorable moments than ECW did.

[mfn 0]

"ECW was the stuff of urban legend. It had a rabid fan base, created more memorable moments in the 1990s on their budget than WCW did with hundreds of millions of dollars,

 

Uh, what.

 

The NWO storyline alone created more memorable moments than ECW did.

 

ECW created the attitude era.

ECW created Stone Cold Steve Austion.

ECW brought cruiserweights over...

 

I can go on, and on.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I would like for you to list some of your memorable moments that the nWo created.

 

Hogan heel turn, fantastic.

Hogan/Sting feud. Still one of my favorites of all time.

 

What else?

 

[2GOLD 0]

 

"Oh, he threw him like a lawn dart!"

Rey Rey's most memorable moment in WCW history. I still quote Larry with that line.

[cabbageboy 0]

Nearly all of the NWO's interesting stuff was during the first 6 months of the angle. As anyone who has 24/7 can attest, once it hits 1997 those Nitros start to really suck ass. More memorable stuff from that era:

 

--Scott Hall's initial debut.

--Obviously Nash, with H & N both attacking everyone in sight.

--Hogan and the NWO beating Macho up with a Slim Jim and spray painting him yellow.

--The NWO attacking Piper and beating his artificial hip.

 

I actually think WCW was quite a bit better in the first half of 1998, when the midcard guys at least had some direction. Cause on these 1997 shows it doesn't seem like ANYONE has any direction.

[Ginger Snaps 0]

ECW created the attitude era.

ECW created Stone Cold Steve Austion.

ECW brought cruiserweights over...

 

oh god.

[Scroby 0]

"Oh, he threw him like a lawn dart!"

Rey Rey's most memorable moment in WCW history. I still quote Larry with that line.

#1 WCW/nWo moment for me.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

Source: PWTorch.com

 

Vince McMahon has a history of singling people out backstage and embarressing them in front of other wrestlers. Last Monday when Shawn Michaels was the target of Vince's juvanile behavior, it blew up in Vince's face and left even Stephanie McMahon speechless.

 

Despite the fact that Shawn Michaels returned to WWE a month ahead of schedule, he still has heat with Vince. Shawn made it clear before he returned that he wants more control over his schedule. He won't be doing any overseas tours and will work a somewhat reduced schedule so he can spend more time with his family.

 

When Shawn showed up to RAW last Monday for the first time since his injury, Vince started "chewing him out" in front of the lockerroom. He made fun of Shawn's attitude and his clothing, among other things. To the surprise of everybody, HBK fired back at Vince and put him in his place. Shawn made it very clear to Vince in front of everybody that he won't be disrespected by anybody or treated like a rookie.

 

The wrestlers were shocked that somebody finally stood up to one of Vince's tirades. According to our source, nobody was more shocked than Stephanie McMahon. Witnesses were reportedly amused that Shawn humbled Vince in front of everybody. The McMahons are not necessarily disliked by the roster but this definitely brought Vince down off his high horse.

 

Shawn and Vince have had a volatile relationship for well over a decade. There is no indication that this incident will have any ramifications on Shawn's WWE status.

 

[hyperchord24 0]

Source: PWTorch.com

 

Vince McMahon has a history of singling people out backstage and embarressing them in front of other wrestlers. Last Monday when Shawn Michaels was the target of Vince's juvanile behavior, it blew up in Vince's face and left even Stephanie McMahon speechless.

 

Despite the fact that Shawn Michaels returned to WWE a month ahead of schedule, he still has heat with Vince. Shawn made it clear before he returned that he wants more control over his schedule. He won't be doing any overseas tours and will work a somewhat reduced schedule so he can spend more time with his family.

 

When Shawn showed up to RAW last Monday for the first time since his injury, Vince started "chewing him out" in front of the lockerroom. He made fun of Shawn's attitude and his clothing, among other things. To the surprise of everybody, HBK fired back at Vince and put him in his place. Shawn made it very clear to Vince in front of everybody that he won't be disrespected by anybody or treated like a rookie.

 

The wrestlers were shocked that somebody finally stood up to one of Vince's tirades. According to our source, nobody was more shocked than Stephanie McMahon. Witnesses were reportedly amused that Shawn humbled Vince in front of everybody. The McMahons are not necessarily disliked by the roster but this definitely brought Vince down off his high horse.

 

Shawn and Vince have had a volatile relationship for well over a decade. There is no indication that this incident will have any ramifications on Shawn's WWE status.

I gotta side with Shawn here. Vince should've known better than to single out one of the top babyfaces of a rail thin roster.

 

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Vince McMahon shouldn't treat his employees, especially one as loyal as Shawn, this way. That being said, he is the boss and it's inappropriate for Shawn to act this sort of way to him in front of the entire locker room.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Recent reports indicated Shawn was happy being in semi-retirement so it's not like he needs the job right now. I don't expect him to leave or anything but he's in a place where he can speak up for himself.

[Mike wanna be 0]

What did Michaels have to lose? At best he's jobbing to Orton at the next few PPVs (with perhaps a token title run, if he is indeed finished with the business) to keep the spot healthy for the only other face who's anywhere near title-ready, and at worst he gets buried before he retires and by the time he makes his inevitable return nobody will remember the burial anyway.

[Human Fly 0]

That being said, he is the boss and it's inappropriate for Shawn to act this sort of way to him in front of the entire locker room.

 

What? I do not care who you are, boss or not, if someone starts dressing you down in front of a group of your peers you are well within your rights to defend yourself, and not take it like a bitch.

[2GOLD 0]

 

Shawn Michaels should call Johnny Paycheck, he might need "Take this job and shove it" sooner than later.

[Diamonddust 0]

That being said, he is the boss and it's inappropriate for Shawn to act this sort of way to him in front of the entire locker room.

 

What? I do not care who you are, boss or not, if someone starts dressing you down in front of a group of your peers you are well within your rights to defend yourself, and not take it like a bitch.

 

Agreed. Still, there are only a handful of people in the locker room that could get away with what Shawn did. A guy in the mid-card or lower couldn't stand up to Vince like that without pretty much throwing his job away right then and there.

[Jingus 0]

ECW created the attitude era.

ECW created Stone Cold Steve Austion.

ECW brought cruiserweights over...

 

oh god.

What? He's right. Both of the Big 2 stole tons of workers and ideas from ECW.

 

Sure, the nWo started out pretty damn cool in the first few months, but after that initial explosion, there wasn't a lot left. The angle turned repetitive quickly, and became a bad soap opera with weekly nonsensical swerves. Every week, the nWo's matches were mostly horribly shitty affairs with old guys who were just collecting a paycheck and didn't give a fuck. WCW couldn't even bother to provide a finish most of the time, it was just endless run-ins. Oh, and let's not forget Hogan providing the original inspiration for HHH's weekly "I'm so great" promos which invariably ran on for twenty minutes. The original angle was so strong that people kept on watching out of habit long after it had become damn near unwatchable, plus Sting and Goldberg helped delay the inevitable slide somewhat, but really except for the few early highlights the entire nWo storyline was overhyped garbage.

 

 

As for the Shawn Michaels thing, it's kind of amusing, but really it's just the same old Shawn klique "I'm a rebel, I don't have to follow the rules" bullshit that he's been doing for the past dozen years. I don't know if he just gives the world's greatest blowjob or what, but somehow Shawn is the only one who's repeatedly gotten away with blatantly defying Vince's will.

[Guest Shylock]

Vince McMahon shouldn't treat his employees, especially one as loyal as Shawn, this way. That being said, he is the boss and it's inappropriate for Shawn to act this sort of way to him in front of the entire locker room.

Him being the boss means nothing. It's just as, if not moreso, inappropriate for him to single out some random worker and chew them out in front of everyone just so he can get his jollies off. Shawn, by all accounts, was completely content with staying at home with his family and focusing on his religious activities. He didn't have to come back to WWE, but he did. Vince attempting to make an example out of Shawn is disrespectful bullshit.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

As for the Shawn Michaels thing, it's kind of amusing, but really it's just the same old Shawn klique "I'm a rebel, I don't have to follow the rules" bullshit that he's been doing for the past dozen years. I don't know if he just gives the world's greatest blowjob or what, but somehow Shawn is the only one who's repeatedly gotten away with blatantly defying Vince's will.

 

While I don't deny Shawn has had a reputation for doing this shit for years, since returning from his retirement Shawn has for the most part played ball with the WWE, and a 40+ year old guy who came back because WWE decided they needed him so badly shouldn't be subjected to Vince's abuse. They begged him to come back, not the other way around and he is simply just making that known.

[canadafour 0]

Does anybody have a copy of the Sting/Chris Benoit match from Nitro on 9.20.99???

[canadafour 0]

Also Does anybody have copies of all the nitros and thunders from 1999?

[Black Lushus 0]

wait about 2 years and you'll start seeing them all on 24/7.

[mfn 0]

ECW created the attitude era.

ECW created Stone Cold Steve Austin.

ECW brought cruiserweights over...

 

oh god.

 

That's all you have?

 

 

 

[hyperchord24 0]

That being said, he is the boss and it's inappropriate for Shawn to act this sort of way to him in front of the entire locker room.

 

What? I do not care who you are, boss or not, if someone starts dressing you down in front of a group of your peers you are well within your rights to defend yourself, and not take it like a bitch.

Yes, because when your boss starts acting unprofessional in front of you, doing it right back makes it all worth it, even if you lose your job.

 

Shawn's individual case aside, I'm sick of people thinking that wrestlers shouldn't take crap from people (peers or superiors) who act unprofessional. If the choice is being made a fool of or feeding your family, being made a fool of is always the better option. Granded, this should be taken totally out of context because Shawn can afford (talking dollar signs here) to do and say whatever he wants to anyone he wants.

[Black Lushus 0]

ECW created the attitude era.

ECW created Stone Cold Steve Austin.

ECW brought cruiserweights over...

 

oh god.

 

That's all you have?

 

here's the one thing I'll say about the WWF. They took those elements and actually made it look good, whereas ECW's stuff always came off as huge trainwrecks featuring massive overbooking, little psychology and often times uninteresting characters. Now that's just my opinion, I'm sure others disagree with me. It's hard to go back and watch old ECW stuff on 24/7.

[mfn 0]

ECW created the attitude era.

ECW created Stone Cold Steve Austin.

ECW brought cruiserweights over...

 

oh god.

 

That's all you have?

 

here's the one thing I'll say about the WWF. They took those elements and actually made it look good, whereas ECW's stuff always came off as huge trainwrecks featuring massive overbooking, little psychology and often times uninteresting characters. Now that's just my opinion, I'm sure others disagree with me. It's hard to go back and watch old ECW stuff on 24/7.

 

I'm not saying ECW did the whole attitude thing better than the WWF by anymeans. I'm just saying that ECW deserves credit where credit is due. I'll admit, ECW didn't start really getting excellent until around 98-99.

 

[cabbageboy 0]

Canadafour, who is this Benoit fellow you want to see so badly? As far as those WCW shows from 1999, trust me you don't want to see them. I used to tape Nitro and watch Raw live, but didn't keep any of them past that week. WCW circa 1999 was easily the worst wrestling TV in history. Nothing is close, not even WCW in 2000 (aside from the Sullivan months in 2000).

 

Lushus, if I have a problem with the ECW shows on 24/7 it's that there's just too much talky crap on there for a 1 hour show. I think it was mostly because in 1996 ECW didn't really have the best roster of in ring performers.

 

The shows that really don't hold up though are Nitros from 1997. Call me crazy but I think I preferred the 1995 and early 1996 Nitros that were only 1 hour. At least then they had to focus on what mattered, rather than just tossing out random jobber matches and bullshit. It's jarring to compare the Nitro currently on 24/7 to the Raw....Raw was so much more intense and storyline driven. You feel like you're really seeing something.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

as much as Shawn might deserve a lil humiliation for the shit he's pulled over the years, it's hard not to grin reading that article. The idea of someone doing that to Vince in front of the whole locker room is delicious. I wish I could have seen it.

[Diamonddust 0]

Canadafour, who is this Benoit fellow you want to see so badly? As far as those WCW shows from 1999, trust me you don't want to see them. I used to tape Nitro and watch Raw live, but didn't keep any of them past that week. WCW circa 1999 was easily the worst wrestling TV in history. Nothing is close, not even WCW in 2000 (aside from the Sullivan months in 2000).

 

Lushus, if I have a problem with the ECW shows on 24/7 it's that there's just too much talky crap on there for a 1 hour show. I think it was mostly because in 1996 ECW didn't really have the best roster of in ring performers.

 

The shows that really don't hold up though are Nitros from 1997. Call me crazy but I think I preferred the 1995 and early 1996 Nitros that were only 1 hour. At least then they had to focus on what mattered, rather than just tossing out random jobber matches and bullshit. It's jarring to compare the Nitro currently on 24/7 to the Raw....Raw was so much more intense and storyline driven. You feel like you're really seeing something.

 

It's been said before, but 1997 is the year WCW decided to rest on their laurels because they had so much momentum from the previous year. The WWF was so far behind... why would WCW have to do anything major for an extended period of time? As a result, Hogan disappeared for months, and t he WCW Title went undefended from like February to August. On Raw, though, they were building for the future - Austin's mega-push coupled with the Hart Foundation's dominance and Shawn starting to act like a degenerate. It was one of the few times you can sit back and say, "A wrestling company didn't hot-shot things for a quick fix". They waited things out, and ultimately it paid off.

[Black Lushus 0]

wait, I thought Luger won the title in either June or July on Nitro in 97, only to lose it back a week later at whatever PPV it was (Hog Wild?)?

[Diamonddust 0]

wait, I thought Luger won the title in either June or July on Nitro in 97, only to lose it back a week later at whatever PPV it was (Hog Wild?)?

 

It was Hog Wild, but that was August. Luger won it on the last Nitro before Hog Wild.

 

The WCW PPV main events went like this:

 

February: Hogan defended against Piper

March: The Uncensored multi-team main event

April: DDP vs. Savage

May: Hall, Nash, Syxx vs. Flair, Piper, and Kevin Greene

June: DDP vs. Savage II

July: Hogan & Rodman vs. Giant and Luger

August: Luger defends against Hogan, days after winning the belt on Nitro (Basically, Hogan agreed to the drop so he could win it back on the PPV)

September: Wargames

October: Hogan defends against Piper

November: World War III Battle Royale

December: Hogan defends against Sting