Raw Thread For December 17th

[The Amazing Rando 0]

Vince, right now, is really reminding me of Spencer Tracy in "It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World", although he was even more like it during the explosion show. This is pretty much the same Vince, but instead of random acts causing his evil, it all stems from the beatdowns last week.

[Twisted Intestine 0]

Hardy and HBK...

 

Can I have a perfect night?? Everyone's so excited with how well I'm doing.

[Twisted Intestine 0]

Nooo, it stems from Hardy's promo. His promo single handedly sent mcmahon off the deep end. He accomplished what no one else ever could, with a single promo.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Nooo, it stems from Hardy's promo. His promo single handedly sent mcmahon off the deep end. He accomplished what no one else ever could, with a single promo.

 

Jeff Hardy is king of the promos now?

[Twisted Intestine 0]

Yep, new ring name expected to be KOAP.

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

Hardy getting the pin got quite the pop.

[Twisted Intestine 0]

I too am KOAP! King of all predictions, wooo!

[haws bah gawd 0]

Jeff Hardy is the shit and deserves everything that he gets from WWE. I know they'll likely never put the title on him, but the guy has improved so much since his last run in the company, he deserves something. Even Kennedy was on fire in the main event tonight, and he usually looks like he just phones in his performances.

[Brett Favre 0]

Jeff Hardy is so hot right now.

[ANKLELOCK 0]

I'll never understand some of the hate for JBL's in ring work. He did a fantastic job during his title run, which included some great matches with Eddie, Angle, and Cena. He works a very stiff style with a believable finisher when contrasted with somebody like Jericho, who has weak-ass offense and a finisher that hasn't beaten anyone in years.

 

Not to mention he's easily the best promo in the company.

 

And the people who don't get the "Wrestling God" character and complain that he's held on a plateau with Rock/Austin are reacting the way WWE wants you to react and don't have a very discernable eye for pro wrestling.

 

JBL is awesome.

[Brett Favre 0]

The Jericho/JBL segment was really good.

[Wally Balls 0]

I'll never understand some of the hate for JBL's in ring work. He did a fantastic job during his title run, which included some great matches with Eddie, Angle, and Cena. He works a very stiff style with a believable finisher when contrasted with somebody like Jericho, who has weak-ass offense and a finisher that hasn't beaten anyone in years.

 

Not to mention he's easily the best promo in the company.

 

And the people who don't get the "Wrestling God" character and complain that he's held on a plateau with Rock/Austin are reacting the way WWE wants you to react and don't have a very discernable eye for pro wrestling.

 

JBL is awesome.

 

Get real. Did it ever occur to you that Eddie, Angle, and Cena are damn good wrestlers and more of the credit in their matches goes to them, and of course Jericho's finisher hasn't beaten anyone in years...he hasn't been wrestling...in years. He introduced a newer, high impact finisher which he used to beat Santino.

 

JBL is a good promo guy, but he's not head and shoulders above everyone, he's not even above everyone. Vince, Jericho, Austin, Cena, Santino, Flair, Foley and HHH all cut just as good or even better promos than JBL. Jericho deserves just as much credit for tonight's promo as JBL. Both brought their great promo skills to the table, but it's not like JBL totally blew him away...not even close.

 

The thing about the whole "wrestling god" thing, isn't that people are upset that he's claiming himself to be so, it's because people just don't give a shit. He hasn't done enough to warrant the fans to care about him. His title run is overshadowed by Cena winning his first title against him.

[Brett Favre 0]

Most of the time you can't have a good match without having two good workers. So you have to give credit to JBL.

[vermilion 0]

That was a damn fine promo duel

 

Jericho didn't exactly have a gun in that duel. He got his ass handed to him.

 

Ass handed to him? JBL started off all happy/laughing at what he did to at the PPV but by the time Jericho was done ripping on him, JBL was pissed off and ready to fight. He fell right into the trap that Jericho wanted him to (to show up on Raw face to face). I thought both guys did great in their role and if they keep it up, this feud should get some pretty good heat.

 

I'll never understand some of the hate for JBL's in ring work. He did a fantastic job during his title run, which included some great matches with Eddie, Angle, and Cena. He works a very stiff style with a believable finisher when contrasted with somebody like Jericho, who has weak-ass offense and a finisher that hasn't beaten anyone in years.

 

Not to mention he's easily the best promo in the company.

 

And the people who don't get the "Wrestling God" character and complain that he's held on a plateau with Rock/Austin are reacting the way WWE wants you to react and don't have a very discernable eye for pro wrestling.

 

JBL is awesome.

 

As far as JBL being awesome and Jericho weak, that's pretty debatable. Jericho has had some problems with a strong offense in the past but I think he's brought out some nice new moves since his return. JBL isn't horrible in the ring but I wouldn't say awesome by any stretch. He's a brawler, that's it. He had a good match with Eddie Guerrero? That's nothing new really. I think people might underrate JBL slightly, but don't go too far the other way, he's far from great in ring.

[ANKLELOCK 0]

JBL cuts the best serious promo in the company. This shouldn't be up for debate. Have you seen his promos from his run on top? Foley doesn't count cuz he's not a current full-time talent.

 

Jericho's Walls of Jericho hasn't beaten anyone of note in any big match that I can remember. All his big wins from his history seem to be flash pins or by dubious means(when he's heel).

 

JBL's matches with Eddie, Cena, and Angle were all wrestled in JBL's style with JBL, as the heel champ, presumably calling the matches so yes I will give him credit for those matches. He had some very good ones with Rey as well. Batista was the one guy he couldn't have a good-great match with.

[naiwf 0]

That was a damn fine promo duel

 

Jericho didn't exactly have a gun in that duel. He got his ass handed to him.

 

Ass handed to him? JBL started off all happy/laughing at what he did to at the PPV but by the time Jericho was done ripping on him, JBL was pissed off and ready to fight. He fell right into the trap that Jericho wanted him to (to show up on Raw face to face). I thought both guys did great in their role and if they keep it up, this feud should get some pretty good heat.

 

Everything JBL said about Jericho was true. He made him look like someone who will never win the big one (again). JBL basically shot on Jericho the entire time and Chris sat there with a stupid look on his face and threw in a couple of JHS level insults. Jericho may have gotten the result he wanted, but he took a verbal beating to get it.

[Wally Balls 0]

That was a damn fine promo duel

 

Jericho didn't exactly have a gun in that duel. He got his ass handed to him.

 

Ass handed to him? JBL started off all happy/laughing at what he did to at the PPV but by the time Jericho was done ripping on him, JBL was pissed off and ready to fight. He fell right into the trap that Jericho wanted him to (to show up on Raw face to face). I thought both guys did great in their role and if they keep it up, this feud should get some pretty good heat.

 

Everything JBL said about Jericho was true. He made him look like someone who will never win the big one (again). JBL basically shot on Jericho the entire time and Chris sat there with a stupid look on his face and threw in a couple of JHS level insults. Jericho may have gotten the result he wanted, but he took a verbal beating to get it.

 

If JBL basically shot on Jericho, then I'd say Jericho did pretty damn well for not being able to shoot at all. I can't imagine hearing someone shoot on JBL, he'd get fucked in the ass. I'm not saying JBL can't cut a good promo, but he didn't dominate Jericho at all. It was a good back and fourth and I think it can generate some pretty good heat if they keep up the good work.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

Vince, Jericho, Austin, Cena, Santino, Flair, Foley and HHH all cut just as good or even better promos than JBL

Santino? Santino?! C'mon.

[vermilion 0]

That was a damn fine promo duel

 

Jericho didn't exactly have a gun in that duel. He got his ass handed to him.

 

Ass handed to him? JBL started off all happy/laughing at what he did to at the PPV but by the time Jericho was done ripping on him, JBL was pissed off and ready to fight. He fell right into the trap that Jericho wanted him to (to show up on Raw face to face). I thought both guys did great in their role and if they keep it up, this feud should get some pretty good heat.

 

Everything JBL said about Jericho was true. He made him look like someone who will never win the big one (again). JBL basically shot on Jericho the entire time and Chris sat there with a stupid look on his face and threw in a couple of JHS level insults. Jericho may have gotten the result he wanted, but he took a verbal beating to get it.

 

Didn't Jericho say something about JBL being a wrestling afterthought? How he was just an announcer now? That he was soft? Look at all the posts here, everyone likes JBL as an announcer, but as a wrestler, he IS an afterthought. No one cares about him anymore other than his talking. All JBL said about Jericho is that he was going to see what a wrestling god is like firsthand. I'm pretty sure he didn't even insult Jericho for most of the promo.

[vermilion 0]

Vince, Jericho, Austin, Cena, Santino, Flair, Foley and HHH all cut just as good or even better promos than JBL

Santino? Santino?! C'mon.

 

Santino is very funny, and very relaxed on the mic but I definitely agree. He has never cut a real promo to be mentioned in the breath with any of those people.

 

I would like to mention Regal for consideration though. I've always thought he was very good on the mic.

 

I'm on the fence on Cena. He doesn't really do anything for me. His promos seem pretty generic, and when they aren't, they are goofy (and those ones suck). He gets the crowd going though, so he's doing something right.

[Angle-plex 0]

Flair said he wanted everyone's best or he would retire, so I expect Hunter to offer to lay down in a segment before the match and Flair telling him to give it his all instead.

[cabbageboy 0]

The irony of the Flair/HHH match was that a couple years ago HHH himself was kicking Flair's ass and saying how old and washed up he was.

 

As far as JBL goes, I do like him on the mic a lot. But he was utter crap as champion, probably one of the least deserving guys to ever hold a title long term. I've seen the guy have maybe 2 good matches in his whole career, one was a fluke miracle brawl against Cena (which may be both men's career match) and the other was when Eddie cut a psycho gusher of a blade job and did the work of two men. Other than Eddie carrying him and that Cena miracle JBL has never been worth a shit. In fact I've seen him drag mediocre or bad matches out of high level workers like Benoit. Where were these alleged great JBL/Angle matches, cause I for one don't recall any. His matches as champ vs. UT and Booker were also horrid.

 

That's like 2 or 3 good matches in a 12 year time span. Hell Test has had that many good matches.

[ANKLELOCK 0]

Christmastime 2004 in the Royal Rumble buildup for Angle vs. JBL. JBL had three very good matches with Eddie, two good ones with Benoit.

 

HOW is JBL bad? What specific things about his ring work are bad? Expound instead of talking out your ass. He has a good moveset, stiff like I mentioned earlier, all his repertoire build to the Clothesline from Hell, which works as an "out of nowhere" type move like SCM as well, and he sells like a mother. He has tons of charisma in the ring and has had several great matches. Keep in mind I'm talking about since his turn to JBL, not Bradshaw(which works for his character arc considering his great promo to start the JBL character about not previously caring about his wrestling career compared to his financial analyst career).

[Diamonddust 0]

Christmastime 2004 in the Royal Rumble buildup for Angle vs. JBL. JBL had three very good matches with Eddie, two good ones with Benoit.

 

HOW is JBL bad? What specific things about his ring work are bad? Expound instead of talking out your ass. He has a good moveset, stiff like I mentioned earlier, all his repertoire build to the Clothesline from Hell, which works as an "out of nowhere" type move like SCM as well, and he sells like a mother. He has tons of charisma in the ring and has had several great matches. Keep in mind I'm talking about since his turn to JBL, not Bradshaw(which works for his character arc considering his great promo to start the JBL character about not previously caring about his wrestling career compared to his financial analyst career).

 

Agreed...

 

As much as people hated the character, I love the J.B.L. gimmick. Call it because of my fascination with "Dallas" and The Million Dollar Man if you want, but I got a kick out of the character, and he had the right amount of charisma and microphone skills to pull it off.

[Mike wanna be 0]

Christmastime 2004 in the Royal Rumble buildup for Angle vs. JBL. JBL had three very good matches with Eddie, two good ones with Benoit.

So he had "very good" and "good" matches with the BEST workers this generation has output (and on a sad aside, of Kurt, Eddie & Benoit, who would have bet that Kurt would be the last one alive before any of them died?)

 

HOW is JBL bad? What specific things about his ring work are bad? Expound instead of talking out your ass. He has a good moveset, stiff like I mentioned earlier

Here's where my problem lies. He wrestles like a Texan. He talks and acts like a New Yorker, yet wears a cowboy hat and has bull horns on the front of his limousine. The two just don't go together, and JBL is the amalgam of those two polar opposites.

 

all his repertoire build to the Clothesline from Hell, which works as an "out of nowhere" type move like SCM as well,

You might as well say that Khali's offense "builds" to the Kona Crush, but that doesn't make his offense of punches, kicks, chops and GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHs acceptable, let alone respectable.

 

and he sells like a mother. He has tons of charisma in the ring and has had several great matches. Keep in mind I'm talking about since his turn to JBL, not Bradshaw(which works for his character arc considering his great promo to start the JBL character about not previously caring about his wrestling career compared to his financial analyst career).

I'll grant you the selling and the charisma, but I'm not going to buy that he has had "several great matches" when you yourself classify his matches with half of the Smackdown Six as no better than "very good" with two of the five cited only rating "good" in your book.

 

Every main eventer needs "that match" that solidifies them in the main event, and given EVERY opportunity the company could feasibly give him JBL came up with nothing that anybody can point to and say "This match is why JBL belongs in the main event, he stepped in with somebody and they put on one hell of a match that made both men look strong coming out."

[Jingus 0]

JBL's a perfectly decent brawler. A bit stiff, obviously, but he moves well for a guy of his size, age, and various injuries.

 

 

One thing I didn't even notice until reading some reviews, and nobody else has noticed it either: no Hornswoggle tonight. Truthfully, did anyone miss him?

[Brocklock 0]

I remember really enjoying a JBL/Taker match from a Smackdown from June of 05. I also remember thinking his mini series with Hardcore Holly on Smackdown in the Fall of 04 were fun brawls and way better than I was expecting. I also liked the supposed horrible JBL/Booker match from Survivor Series. So, In my eyes he just didn't have good matches with half of the Smackdown 6.

 

The only really bad matches I can remember from his main event run were vs Taker at Summerslam 04 and vs Batista at Great American Bash 05.

 

JBL's last man standing match with Angle right before the 05 Royal Rumble was great.

 

JBL/Benoit cage match was really good as well

 

All JBL/Rey matches are fun, but I really enjoyed the match at Judgment Day 06. I think it's really underrated.

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

JBL is a good promo guy, but he's not head and shoulders above everyone, he's not even above everyone. Vince, Jericho, Austin, Cena, Santino, Flair, Foley and HHH all cut just as good or even better promos than JBL. Jericho deserves just as much credit for tonight's promo as JBL. Both brought their great promo skills to the table, but it's not like JBL totally blew him away...not even close.

 

Austin is a caricature of his former self and hasn't cut a decent promo in years. Same can be said about Foley. Flair is past his promo prime, can still cut a decent one, but gets lost in spots. Santino is 100% comedic, and while solid at it, it's not going to sell money matches. HHH is good in limited doses and when he doesn't try to be funny - which is too few and far between these days. JBL is very good on the mic and his title reign was better than I expected.

 

MVP is a solid promo guy and will only get better. Regal is great when they allow him to be. Edge is top notch as well. HBK can still cut one with the best of them, Kennedy is hit(on SD!) or miss(on Raw). Matt Striker is very underrated, but then he's a jobber in the ring - he gets my vote to replace JBL in the booth.

 

JBL's barbed wire topped cage match with Big Show was a good match with a creative ending.

[Exslade ZX 0]

Here's where my problem lies. He wrestles like a Texan. He talks and acts like a New Yorker, yet wears a cowboy hat and has bull horns on the front of his limousine. The two just don't go together, and JBL is the amalgam of those two polar opposites.

Do you not understand the concept of a wrestling 'character'?...That's the whole gimmick. He's a born and bred Texan, who's "turned his back" on his roots for money and power. Surely based on his real life personality, considering he is a Texan, and is in fact a self made millionaire, Wall Street guy. So I don't see the problem. Especially when you can't even make the claim that it's not 'real' enough considering as I just mentioned it's based off of his real life...

 

Have you not seen suburban white kids, dressed 'Gangsta'. There are plenty of "amalgams" out there, I don't see how this one's any different, or less believable then them.

[Perfection 0]

I've always been a fan of jbl/bradshaw. I remember thinking way back when he first debuted and for years after that they could make him into a big star because of that big texas look. Now I didn't see the current jbl gimmick being it but I like it. He sort of reminded me of stan hanson a bit and he worked stiff like him too except hanson did it more because he was blind as a bat without his glasses. But then there is the clothesline from hell that I love...he makes it look brutal sometimes. And much like hanson and the lariat, he can hit it out of no where.

 

btw, anyone notice that Flair didn't seem to do his usual selling last night and was a bit off? I think he got popped in the mouth early on as he was holding his mouth a few times but normally when he is in a submission move he is screaming. Yet when umuga had him in the nerve hold, he didn't...in fact he wasn't selling it hardly at all. I thought that was a bit odd.