WWE Raw (8/4/08)

[JPopStarKami 0]

Eh, how exactly were Rhodes and DiBiase supposed to win that match if Cena/Batista actually were able to coexist? They are two borderline rookies with belts they didn't really even earn. Batista and Cena didn't turn on each other, so of course they would beat the piss out of them. I have a feeling Adamle might make things truly intriguing by making Cena face off against his boys Cryme Tyme with the tag belts on the line.

 

In an odd way wasn't it to Punk's advantage to lose to someone tonight? As long as he simply lost he only faces one man at SS, whereas if he had kicked out at the last second he would have faced both JBL and Jericho. With that said, are they all but trying to tank this PPV with the title matches? I mean Mark Henry defending the ECW title, Khali in the SD title match, and now Punk vs. JBL? Man they must really be relying on Hell in a Cell to draw the buyrate here. I would say Cena/Batista as well, but I have a feeling that match is a no decision waiting to happen.

 

Punk vs. JBL in my opinion is the best world title match on the card. You guys might think JBL sucks, but I'm digging the storyline they're building. JBL calls Punk a paper champion, and Punk has to prove him wrong. If Punk goes over, and he should, then that gives him a huge boost of credibility and wraps up a nice little storyline.

[SamoaRowe 0]

That Khali/HHH match is going to draw better than people think too. I don't like Khali either, in fact, I think I hate him, but he has a history of being a baffling draw (I'm guessing amongst the casual fans who are actually impressed by his height) so his spot in a main event on a card filled with other matches being touted as main events won't hurt anything.

 

Punk/JBL should be very interesting, I'm with JPopStarKarmi on this one.

 

Batista/Cena is very appealing and will really boost this show.

 

The Hell in a Cell is another big draw.

[naiwf 0]

Punk vs. JBL in my opinion is the best world title match on the card. You guys might think JBL sucks, but I'm digging the storyline they're building. JBL calls Punk a paper champion, and Punk has to prove him wrong. If Punk goes over, and he should, then that gives him a huge boost of credibility and wraps up a nice little storyline.

 

How is beating JBL going to be a huge boost to anyone's credibility? He already beat JBL with Cena's non physical interference. JBL's whole thing is that Punk is a paper champion and then he earned his second title shot by falling backward onto a guy. Unless Punk hits JBL with a GTS inside of a minute that match is going to be booked to make JBL look like he blew his shot and that Punk still had no legit claim to being champion. At this point I wouldn't be shocked to see Kane run interference to protect JBL and keep Punk's streak of "he wouldn't have won if Wrestler X hadn't saved him from taking his opponent's finisher" matches intact.

 

[Precious Roy 0]

Freddie Prinze Jr must have booked this show

 

"lolz tag champs that don't get along! i made a funny! WOOOOOOO! I MISS RIC FLAIR!!"

 

 

What?

http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?...t&p=2728414

 

I have no idea what's going on right now and I'm not even going to start to read that thread

 

It was a very good show I thought. And Freddie Prinze Jr. Etc.

[cabbageboy 0]

Well of course Punk vs. JBL is the best world title match on the card, but what does that really say? It's at best an adequate TV main event, but is hardly PPV quality when faced with the much more tantalizing prospects of Punk vs. Jericho on PPV. They cannot afford to have Punk keep screwing around with JBL if he's going to get over as champ, unless they want to do some crazed gimmick match. Otherwise the matches will be mundane (or even suck) and it won't do much for Punk's ability to get over as champ.

[SamoaRowe 0]

Punk vs. JBL in my opinion is the best world title match on the card. You guys might think JBL sucks, but I'm digging the storyline they're building. JBL calls Punk a paper champion, and Punk has to prove him wrong. If Punk goes over, and he should, then that gives him a huge boost of credibility and wraps up a nice little storyline.

 

How is beating JBL going to be a huge boost to anyone's credibility? He already beat JBL with Cena's non physical interference. JBL's whole thing is that Punk is a paper champion and then he earned his second title shot by falling backward onto a guy. Unless Punk hits JBL with a GTS inside of a minute that match is going to be booked to make JBL look like he blew his shot and that Punk still had no legit claim to being champion. At this point I wouldn't be shocked to see Kane run interference to protect JBL and keep Punk's streak of "he wouldn't have won if Wrestler X hadn't saved him from taking his opponent's finisher" matches intact.

 

When somebody accuses you of being a paper champion and then you prove him wrong by beating him (in this case one by a distraction and the second time theoretically cleanly) it does establish credibility and pays off to a storyline that developed over a couple of months. That would be a huge boost to CM Punk and he will be that much stronger for his next challenger feud.

[MrRant 0]

When did the ECW belt go silver?

 

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

When did the ECW belt go silver?

 

Oh, sorry. It went silver shortly after Mark Henry became the ECW Champion, because the company:

 

A) Wanted to make a larger belt for him.

 

B) Didn't feel that putting the ECW Championship on Mark Henry drove the point that winning said belt is, at best, a secondary accomplishment. Going for the silver!

[naiwf 0]

When somebody accuses you of being a paper champion and then you prove him wrong by beating him (in this case one by a distraction and the second time theoretically cleanly) it does establish credibility and pays off to a storyline that developed over a couple of months. That would be a huge boost to CM Punk and he will be that much stronger for his next challenger feud.

 

That would be great if it was anyone other than JBL playing the role of the rub giver. I don't think there are too many casual fans thinking "man if Punk beats JBL, then he'll finally have earned his spot!". I'd assume most of them are thinking, "I hope he knees JBL in the face and then goes on to face someone better/more important". Even if JBL loses cleanly, I don't think that really makes Punk look like he's on a higher level if and when he goes on to face a Cena or Batista or anyone of real significance to the fans. They'll still be playing the same basic storyline out until Punk cleanly beats a "name" as champ or turns heel because no matter how many people he beat he still didn't get the respect he feels he deserves.

[Nate 0]

ok with the Kofi/Mickie vs Beth and Santino I know its winner takes all, but does that mean say if Santino pinned Mickie James he'd become the Women's champ or what

[naiwf 0]

The way I took it was that whoever recorded the pin or submission would win both belts for himself/herself, which means either Beth or Santino has to win the match for that to make any sense. There seems to be a lot of debate on the exact wording of what Adamle said though, and I think that's intentional.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

You'd think it meant the gender specific belts change hands, but yeah, I'm pretty sure Beth will pin Mickie James and Santino will start playing the air trombone thinking he's the IC champ, only to be told "winner TOOK ALL", leaving him with nothing. Cole and Lawler will act shocked.

[Mike wanna be 0]

Punk vs. JBL in my opinion is the best world title match on the card. You guys might think JBL sucks, but I'm digging the storyline they're building. JBL calls Punk a paper champion, and Punk has to prove him wrong. If Punk goes over, and he should, then that gives him a huge boost of credibility and wraps up a nice little storyline.

Maybe if they didn't have Batista/Cena I already on the card, I'd consider it a 'nice little storyline'.

 

As it stands, Punk is rehashing a match he's already had and is clearly the #2 Raw main event choice; if anything, JBL's selection is a "Punk's not ready to main event a 'real' PPV" indicator.

 

Jericho comes out and says he completely obliterated Michaels and ended his career, JBL comes out and says he beat Cena up. HBK hasn't been in the ring since the Bash and wouldn't be seen on WWE television for another hour after the RAW-opening promo; Cena was wrestling the night after the GAB. Jericho was the Intercontinental champion going into NoC; JBL, to my knowledge, hasn't held any title since he lost the WWE title to Cena in 2005. Jericho has had zero title opportunities this year; JBL has had at least one. This #1 contender's handicap match was Jericho's first #1 contendership match this year; JBL has been in....seemingly all of the Raw #1 contendership matches this year.

 

Jericho deserves the shot, Jericho is the better match, and Jericho hasn't wrestled Punk one-on-one for the title in the past month and lost.

 

Santino/Beth: If it's "Winner gets both belts", then congratulations Beth Phoenix on moving every other female wrestler into a tie for third place in IC title reigns. Cue the hijinx when Santino realizes to become IC champ he has to wrestle and defeat Beth Phoenix! Laugh maniacally when Adamle drops the bomb that their "title match" was for the Women's title, thus making Santino the Women's champion!

[goldengreek 0]

Is Shawn Micheals really that cross eyed or can he just do that ?

[bob_barron 0]

Sean?

 

From the summerslam site-

 

Raw General Manager Mike Adamle created the stipulations for the intergender bout, which dictate that whichever team prevails, that team will earn both titles.

[Papacita 0]

I really don't see how it's wise to put Jericho in a 1 on 1 title program at this point given the feud with Michaels. Unless your plan is to put Jericho over, you're either gonna risk messing up his momentum by having him lose to an opponent who many perceive as being inferior, or they could go the predictable route of having HBK run-in to help Jericho save face, which has already been done and would hurt Punk again by failing to give him that definitive win.

 

Still, JBL is probably the worst option of all the Raw main eventers, since a win over him won't mean that much for Punk. Kane seemed like he would've been a better choice, but I probably don't wanna job him given the bag thing they've got going with him.

 

They REALLY should've pulled the trigger on Punk vs Cena, IMO. One, it saves the Batista/Cena match for something bigger, and two, a clean win over Cena would be almost the ultimate validation of Punk's title reign. The mixed reaction Cena tends to get means that the fans would be more accepting of a Punk win, while at the same time Cena's over enough that a loss there wouldn't hurt his standing at all.

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

Raw pretty much sucked from top to bottom. It's like it was written by a totally different writer than has written the last month worth of shows.

 

Batista and Cena as unwilling tag team champs is so damn played out. Cody and Teddy were much better holding the belts. It's not like Batista or Cena needed any extra storyline around their feud.

 

The Punk patch was a mess, no chemistry there at all.

 

Adamle went from so much potential either being the Keyser Soze genius or a bumbling fool , and they play it off as pretty straight.

 

Katie and Paul are phased out so Gewirtz(sp) can have his comedy storyline with Beth and Santino.

 

That's all I even remember from the show. Completely forgettable and a waste of time.

[JPopStarKami 0]

I still think Punk vs. JBL is fine. JBL is almost certainly losing...he has injuries and the only two top faces who he can face are feuding against each other. They can do that, and THEN move on to other feuds. Punk vs. Kane, Punk vs. Orton when he comes back, Punk vs. Jericho... there's more heels for a face champion to face than faces for a heel champion to face. I think Punk might drop it against Jericho though when it comes to that.

 

And someone mentioned Punk vs. Cena, I think that would be a disaster because you risk Punk getting booed, not what you want with a champion you want cheered. Do not do face vs. face without establishing Punk as a credible champion. Maybe down the road they can do it, but not at Summerslam where Punk still needs that win for credibility.

[SamoaRowe 0]

When somebody accuses you of being a paper champion and then you prove him wrong by beating him (in this case one by a distraction and the second time theoretically cleanly) it does establish credibility and pays off to a storyline that developed over a couple of months. That would be a huge boost to CM Punk and he will be that much stronger for his next challenger feud.

 

That would be great if it was anyone other than JBL playing the role of the rub giver. I don't think there are too many casual fans thinking "man if Punk beats JBL, then he'll finally have earned his spot!". I'd assume most of them are thinking, "I hope he knees JBL in the face and then goes on to face someone better/more important". Even if JBL loses cleanly, I don't think that really makes Punk look like he's on a higher level if and when he goes on to face a Cena or Batista or anyone of real significance to the fans. They'll still be playing the same basic storyline out until Punk cleanly beats a "name" as champ or turns heel because no matter how many people he beat he still didn't get the respect he feels he deserves.

 

It would be a big deal at this point, since JBL just beat John Cena at the Great American Bash and is coasting on a wave of huge heel heat from his recent attempted power trip after the McMahon accident. The crowd reactions to JBL last night indicate that JBL is perceived to be a big deal by the fans.

[foleyfanforever88 0]

Raw pretty much sucked from top to bottom. It's like it was written by a totally different writer than has written the last month worth of shows.

 

Batista and Cena as unwilling tag team champs is so damn played out. Cody and Teddy were much better holding the belts. It's not like Batista or Cena needed any extra storyline around their feud.

 

The Punk patch was a mess, no chemistry there at all.

 

Adamle went from so much potential either being the Keyser Soze genius or a bumbling fool , and they play it off as pretty straight.

 

Katie and Paul are phased out so Gewirtz(sp) can have his comedy storyline with Beth and Santino.

 

That's all I even remember from the show. Completely forgettable and a waste of time.

 

Raw was pretty damn good, with the exception of Cena and Batista winning the titles. The 3-way was very entertaining, Kofi vs Burchill was good, the Noble/Regal fight could be very promising, and Dibiase and Rhodes looked very good against the two biggest guys on Raw.

[DarKnight 0]

I thought Raw was pretty good last night too, but damn it was weird. Why the fuck is JBL constantly involved in the title scene? I mean, he is the worst guy to ever have in major storylines since it only hurts his opponent's momentum when feuding with him, since beating him doesn't mean a damn thing, and they don't ever just job him either, and it makes his opponent look bad. This is why Jericho's comeback flopped and they needed to turn him heel, because that terrible JBL feud killed his momentum. I appreciate that WWE will give Punk a clean win over him at the PPV, but they shouldn't have done that match on a Raw last month, since he's already jobbed to Punk. And I don't think if you put Jericho against Punk at SS, that it would hurt Jericho's momentum by losing to him, since people know Michaels is going to end up winning that feud anyway (though, I would love if Jericho did).

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

I kinda wish they would let Punk speak some more. How are people suppose to get behind a champion who doesn't have any promo time?

[JPopStarKami 0]

I kinda wish they would let Punk speak some more. How are people suppose to get behind a champion who doesn't have any promo time?

 

He's had more than when he was jobbing with the MITB case, at least. He also had a pretty good promo at GAB. I expect JBL and Punk will have a promo war on the go-home Raw. At least, that's what I hope. As I've said, I dig the story they're building. Hopefully Jericho doesn't run in and kill the match.

[haws bah gawd 0]

There were a couple decent things about last night's RAW, and a few bad things:

 

Good:

More Santino/Beth hijinx

The drama towards the end of the handicap match

 

Bad:

JBL getting another lame duck title shot. He's got to be tied with Batista now for the most-lost title matches.

Cena cutting another horribly cheesy promo backstage. I know he's meant to be the top face but his promos make me turn the channel faster than just about anything.

Both the Burchill's losing so decisively. I agree Paul Birchill may not be ready for an IC title run, but the finish to his match with Kofi came out of left field.

 

Iffy:

Jericho's new look. It took me a couple months to get used to HHH when he dropped the long tights back in 1999, and it will probably take a while to get used to this as well.

 

[DarKnight 0]

Who knows what Jericho will do in the future. He might get a title shot at No Mercy for all I know, but yeah, JBL is terrible, and this stuff with him getting title shots needs to stop. It makes the main event scene look weak by the fact that he's ever a contender, and is a shitty worker, so the fans are never entertained by him. What did WWE not understand about his horrible title run in 04? There is a reason why JBL was most over with the crowd when he was a tag wrestler.

[Angle-plex 0]

Jericho looked gay with those tights and that haircut.

 

Real gay.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

Why is everyone complaining that JBL is getting a title shot? It's clearly so he can job to Punk, more than likely clean. I'm sure they can work a decent match, too.

 

And Jericho looked like a midget with the new tights.

[Silence 0]

Jericho looked gay with those tights and that haircut.

 

Real gay.

 

That and he looks like half the roster now with the trunks too. WWE should have just changed the designs on his long tights instead of having him look like a male underwear model.

[dubq 0]

I bet it's Kane's old mask in the sack. He's probably talking about the "old Kane" this entire time. Maybe he's raised the "I want to retire, get someone to replace me" thing to Vince again.

[pochorenella 0]

JBL, to my knowledge, hasn't held any title since he lost the WWE title to Cena in 2005.

JBL won the US Title from Chris Benoit at WrestleMania 22.