The 2008 MLB Offseason Thread

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I still think Variteck will be back with Boston...he's probably just trying to get a two year deal out of them. They could pass him up, though...Boston has shown a willingness to let veterans go in the past.

 

Ben Sheets declined arbitration with Milwaukee. I don't think he's going to get the big 3-4 year deal out there that he's hoping for, though.

[Cartman 0]

Maybe i'm just being biased because, like Manny, Varitek was one of my favorite players and I don't want to see him go. I also don't think majority of the current pitching staff wants to see him go either.

 

What are the options now? Cash isn't an everyday catcher. Dusty Brown is garbage. George kottaras is garbage. The market isn't exactly bustling with catchers, and now with laird going to the Tigers I dont see the rumored deals happening between Boston and Texas for Salty or Teagarden.

[Grenouille 0]

Yea...who needs that guy behind the plate who all the pitchers continually give credit to for his excellence. Those great game-calling catchers are totally replaceable. There aren't many catchers in baseball that can hit at all these days so i'm really not worried about punting that position for offense when the guy clearly brings alot to the table in other areas of the game.

 

I don't deny his preparation. I know all the pitchers credit him for his game calling ability, but his detriment at the plate has gotten horrendous. The guy is really up there in age for a catcher and like most old catchers will most likely break down soon enough. If they go with a young catcher from the system like a Dusty Brown I wouldn't mind Tek being around for a year or two to groom him in a reduced role. Tying him up for Posada money and for the number of years he wants doesn't make sense though. That may be a case of Boras being the influence, but who knows Varitek was a difficult case even when he came out of college.

 

Best case in my opinion is working a deal for someone like Salty, but I don’t see it happening right now.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Yea...who needs that guy behind the plate who all the pitchers continually give credit to for his excellence. Those great game-calling catchers are totally replaceable. There aren't many catchers in baseball that can hit at all these days so i'm really not worried about punting that position for offense when the guy clearly brings alot to the table in other areas of the game.

It's not that we want to see him unceremoniously dumped. The fact is Varitek doesn't have much value left and he wants to be paid like an elite starting catcher. He's too old and too poor at the plate and in the field to justify a $10 million contract.

 

The intangibles that Varitek brings have some value, but how much? There were times last year that he seemed to be on a completely different page from younger guys like Lester, Buchholz and Masterson. We know of complaints about calling too many fastballs from guys like Beckett, Paps and Gagne. Is he really the master game caller that everyone makes him out to be, or are people just respecting the captain of the squad? Is he the benefactor of catching for some good pitchers behind a great defense?

 

There reaches a point with every player where price exceeds value. We may be there with Tek.

[Guest Czecherbear]

Good riddance. Watching the Sox every day this guy was the most frustrating guy in the lineup. He somehow had this power to get himself good counts and proceed to strike out usually with RISP. Good luck to him trying to find a multiyear deal anywhere for what he's looking to get paid.

 

See ya later Captain Clutch.

Yarrr! Avast, ye, that be Bledsoe Island afoot!

[Cartman 0]

All good points above except the money thing. Who the hell cares how much this guy gets paid? It's not like the sox giving him 10 mil for the next 2 years each or whatever would stop them from signing or re-signing other players they want. Despite what some may think around here money is no object. The team dropped payroll each of the last 3 years now and there's really no explaination for it. So unless they are going to bring in Texiera or something I dont want to hear the money issue.

[the max 0]

Yes, let's dump 10 million into the catching position because we like how the guy carried himself on the field three years ago.

 

They need to adjust for life after Varitek, and now's the time. He had a shit year, a shit playoffs and is now looking for 2+ years at Posada money. Take a fucking hike. And take Heidi Watney with you.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

All good points above except the money thing. Who the hell cares how much this guy gets paid? It's not like the sox giving him 10 mil for the next 2 years each or whatever would stop them from signing or re-signing other players they want. Despite what some may think around here money is no object. The team dropped payroll each of the last 3 years now and there's really no explaination for it. So unless they are going to bring in Texiera or something I dont want to hear the money issue.

By offering arbitration they effectively offered somewhere in the neighborhood of $8-10 million. Varitek declined it. I think a multi-year deal is probably a bigger deal for Varitek than any amount of money.

 

The point for the Red Sox though is that no player is irreplaceable. The Sox turned over a large portion of their 2004 championship team and still won it again in 2007. They can replace the offense easily. Catcher defense is harder to place, but no one's been able to find any evidence whatsoever that game calling skills are measurable.

 

As for other options, Ivan Rodriguez is available on the free agent market. They might go that route.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

The thing is, there's a fine line that you have to be mindful of when it comes to loyalty to players. Yes, it's right to replace them when they no longer retain an usefulness to them, or becomes a problem like Manny, or whatever, but you know, it's easy to sit there as a winner and say players are totally replaceable. What happens if they continue this practice, and the team starts mismanaging themselves right out of contention? They'd lose goodwill with any prospective players that they might go after, because of their practices. It's why, in my opinion, that a lot of players in the late 90s, early 00s chose New York over Boston, because New York shows a strong sense of loyalty to guys that perform for them year in and year out, and even throughout their decline. Sure, that loyalty makes the Yankees slightly less successful compared to the Red Sox who changes their players like their socks, but Theo isn't going to always call the trends correctly, and when it starts to backfire on him, it's just going to collapse the whole thing.

 

Of course, I may be wrong and the Red Sox finds a way to change their front office personnel like socks.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

All good points above except the money thing. Who the hell cares how much this guy gets paid? It's not like the sox giving him 10 mil for the next 2 years each or whatever would stop them from signing or re-signing other players they want. Despite what some may think around here money is no object. The team dropped payroll each of the last 3 years now and there's really no explaination for it. So unless they are going to bring in Texiera or something I dont want to hear the money issue.

No one will ever deny that the Red Sox have a monetary advantage that few franchises can match, but it doesn't mean that there is an endless supply of money. You don't break your model for player valuation because a guy has been on the team for a long time. That's just bad business. Varitek has been shown a great deal of respect from ownership, but at some point costs outweigh benefits.

 

Many of the big market teams are looking to cut payroll because of the bad economy. It's not like John Henry has been isolated from this recession. The notion that money will be pouring in to the end of the time is ludicrous. This team has spent money, but they've also been about mitigating risk. How many $100 million deals has this ownership group given out? Zero. There's a reason for that.

 

The thing is, there's a fine line that you have to be mindful of when it comes to loyalty to players. Yes, it's right to replace them when they no longer retain an usefulness to them, or becomes a problem like Manny, or whatever, but you know, it's easy to sit there as a winner and say players are totally replaceable. What happens if they continue this practice, and the team starts mismanaging themselves right out of contention? They'd lose goodwill with any prospective players that they might go after, because of their practices.

 

It's not as if they are low-balling these guys to hell and running them out of town. They offered arbitration to Varitek and he declined. Look back at negotiations with Pedro, Damon, and Nomar. Each guy was offered a large sum of money to return, but other teams went higher and the Sox decided it just wasn't worth it. They've been right in every case.

 

For every Damon or Manny that rips the Sox FO you have an Ortiz, Pedroia, or Arroyo who takes a below market deal just to stay around. Even Derek Lowe is asking back into the organization. Making the tough calls on vets allows you the freedom to spread the money around to the other 25.

[jimmy no nose 0]

The Tigers decided to fill their shortstop spot with Adam Everett. I think the deal's only 1 year $1 million. Hopefully his defense hasn't fallen off after playing about 2/3 of a season spread out over 2 years because he's never been able to hit anything.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

The Tigers decided to fill their shortstop spot with Adam Everett. I think the deal's only 1 year $1 million. Hopefully his defense hasn't fallen off after playing about 2/3 of a season spread out over 2 years because he's never been able to hit anything.

At least my nightmare scenario of swapping Lugo for Willis is over.

 

Everett should still be terrific in the field and will help the pitching in Detroit. He's not much of a offensive downgrade from the group they were considering (Lugo, Wilson) and the price was right. Not a deal that will blow your socks off, but a good one nonetheless.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I think its all kinds of awesome if the Mariners go ahead and non tender Bedard and he resigns back with the Orioles.

 

Also..rumor of Ramon Hernandez to the Reds for Ryan Freel...and my joke about them probably signing Hairston isn't much of a joke...ugh

 

 

[Guest Czecherbear]

Smarprey:

 

Why do you want Jon Garland? Nobody wants Jon Garland.

[YourKock'sReallyGreat 0]

WFan is reporting that the Mets are close to signing KRod to a 3 year 37 million dollar deal.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

WFan is reporting that the Mets are close to signing KRod to a 3 year 37 million dollar deal.

If so, that is the first real evidence that this bad economy is going to have an effect on free agent signings. That's a significant discount over every other significant closer signing in the past two of three years.

 

Rumor out of the Winter Meetings is that there isn't much of a market for Manny either. Some think that he may even accept arbitration and play on a one-year deal.

[Cartman 0]

Maybe cause K-Rod isnt really THAT good. The Save stat is overrated.

[devo 0]

True, but he also has a career ERA of 2.35 and a career WHIP of 1.114. Guy's a great closer by any metric.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

True, but he also has a career ERA of 2.35 and a career WHIP of 1.114. Guy's a great closer by any metric.

He's a top-10 closer, no doubt, but he's not as good as Billy Wagner and Mets fans hated him. I don't see this ending all that well.

[devo 0]

Oh, without a doubt. If he ends up becoming a Met and turns in anything less than last season's performance he'll be eaten alive.

[YourKock'sReallyGreat 0]

WFan is reporting that the Mets are close to signing KRod to a 3 year 37 million dollar deal.

If so, that is the first real evidence that this bad economy is going to have an effect on free agent signings. That's a significant discount over every other significant closer signing in the past two of three years.

 

Rumor out of the Winter Meetings is that there isn't much of a market for Manny either. Some think that he may even accept arbitration and play on a one-year deal.

 

 

Well look at CC, he is waiting for a California team to offer him at least 100 million and it hasn't happened yet. He is pratically begging the Dodgers, Giants or Angels to sign him. He doesn't want to return to the Brewers and going to the Yankees is his worst nightmare. Manny is a glorified dh who shouldn't be playing in the National League. He is in his mid 30's and looking for a 4 year contract. I cant picture any National League team wanting that. How many teams in the American League can afford him and have a spot for him? He already burned his bridges in Boston, LAA hasn't shown any interest and has a jam of of/dh on their roster. I dont picture the Yankees signing him and how he forced his way out of Boston must scare alot of teams from giving him big money.

 

One player that I am suprised that isn't receiving more interest is Jon Garland. He can be anywhere from a #4 to a #2 pitcher who is durable, has never been injured and pitches 190 innings plus every year since 2002. He is probably going to get half the money and half the Years that Burnett is going to get.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I wouldn't be interested in Jon Garland either. He's a lock to give you 200 innings, but it's going to probably be a below-average 200 innings. I'd rather pay Burnett or Sheets for 100 great innings and the upside of a Cy Young performance than the sure thing that's going to suck for 200. You can always get guys off the scrap heap to eat up some starts with a slightly below average performance. No sense in paying Garland $10 or $12 million a year to do nothing but show up every five days. That's how you end up with an albatross contract like those given to Carlos Silva and Kevin Millwood.

[sfaJack 0]

Incidentally, you wouldn't believe the amount of "SIGN JON GARLAND NOW" there is coming from Astro fans. I think they remember him pitching for the White Sox in '05 and thus he is great. Although I suppose he is a better option than giving Brandon Backe even one more start.

[devo 0]

Just came across the ESPN ticker that the Mets have signed Rodriguez to the contract detailed above. As I just stated, I'm of two minds about this deal - on one hand, he's an undeniably talented closer and an immediate boost to a beleaguered bullpen. On the other, considering how much hype he received last year many fans are going to be expecting the Second Coming of Christ or something.

 

Here's hoping, for everyone involved, that he's up to the challenge.

[Brett Favre 0]

That's good value for the Mets.

[naiwf 0]

I don't expect K-Rod to be Brad Lidge of this season. I just expect him to close the occasional game against say the Phillies, Yankees or Braves with a multiple run lead unlike Wagner. One of the main reasons I dislike Wagner is that he would almost always melt down in games that crippled our momentum, or cost us a two game swing in the standings. I was no more confident with Wagner in the 9th than I was back when we had Benitez or Looper choking critical games away in seasons past. I forgot the exact number, but I think 5 or 6 of his blown saves this year came during games where he was up by 2+ runs, and that's unacceptable for a top tier closer especially when he rarely pitched in a tie game or even a one run game.

[Smartly Pretty 0]

Smarprey:

 

Why do you want Jon Garland? Nobody wants Jon Garland.

 

Innings eater, part of a world series tam, looked great in his two career post season starts. He's solid, and will be far less expensive than say, Derek Lowe.

 

I like "smarprey" btw.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

62 saves is hyperbole, but Rodriguez does own a 2.35 career ERA. His career ERA is third among active pitchers with 100+ saves.

 

I don't expect K-Rod to be Brad Lidge of this season. I just expect him to close the occasional game against say the Phillies, Yankees or Braves with a multiple run lead unlike Wagner. One of the main reasons I dislike Wagner is that he would almost always melt down in games that crippled our momentum, or cost us a two game swing in the standings. I was no more confident with Wagner in the 9th than I was back when we had Benitez or Looper choking critical games away in seasons past. I forgot the exact number, but I think 5 or 6 of his blown saves this year came during games where he was up by 2+ runs, and that's unacceptable for a top tier closer especially when he rarely pitched in a tie game or even a one run game.

 

Five of seven blown saves were two runs. Three of those came in one particularly bad week. The problem though is that Wagner was obviously pitching hurt. From my viewing experience, a normally fine pitcher with a spike in home run rate is a red flag as far as health.

 

You're right about the tied and one run games, Wagner only pitched in ten of them. It makes me wonder about the obsession over a top flight closer in the first place. The real problem for the Mets appeared to be the 6th-8th innings.

[Guest Czecherbear]

Smarprey:

 

Why do you want Jon Garland? Nobody wants Jon Garland.

 

Innings eater, part of a world series tam, looked great in his two career post season starts. He's solid, and will be far less expensive than say, Derek Lowe.

 

I like "smarprey" btw.

He gives up lots of runs, Pablo Ozuna and Cliff Politte were part of that team as well, negligible sample size, yeah and so is most fecal matter, you'll get what you pay for. Garland's a stud if you think W-L record is a great pitching metric, but take away that miracle run from the 2005 rotation and there's not much there.

[Smartly Pretty 0]

Oh, you're just pissed Matt Karchner sucked.